Shopping for a higher level bi-directional scan tool

[mikegt4]

I am looking to upgrade from my current scan tool, it's a great time to find some deals. I sticking point that I always come across is finding the cost of updates after the year(s) of "free" updates that come with the tool. The manufacturers don't seem to be very open about that forthcoming expense, probably with good reason as online and YouTube reviews that do have that info show some pretty shocking prices. I am shopping in the $800-1000 range and from what I have found the reoccurring update cost can be $300-500 per year. As a DIY'er for my own use it can be a hard hit, almost enough to just buy a newer tool when the time comes.

It seems that emailing the manufacturer is the only way of finding this subscription cost, kind of hard to do on a holiday weekend. Has anyone here gone through the continuing subscription process other than a business? I have heard of some saying that some products will only operate at a reduced functionality if you don't renew a subscription which I find hard to believe. A tool not working on vehicles after the last model year that you paid for either in the purchase of the tool or subscription I can understand. BTW I don't have a late model vehicles and don't plan on buying a new car/truck anytime soon.

 

[FSUwelder1212]

My recommendation would be to look into diagzone. Or if you are looking for something more through official channels, the ThinkDiag 2 is a very powerful tool for the price the only downsides are that the graphing isn’t great and it isn’t exactly tablet friendly since it’s limited to portrait orientation, and if you don’t pay the yearly update you lose everything but obd2. The other option I would look very hard at is the Otofix d1 plus, it uses Autel software and vci with better hardware specs. It’s basically an MS906 pro with better hardware at a better cost with much cheaper yearly updates and Amazon has it for a stupid good price right now. I’m pretty loaded down with scan tools and I am seriously considering buying the Otofix to add to the stable.

 

[Schurkey]

What tool do you have; and how new do you need?

Get a used Snap-On or other professional-model scan tool with software a few years newer than the newest vehicle you intend to use it on.

My Snappy Solus Pro 8.2 (2007) cost me $350 delivered to my door with OBD1 and OBD2 connections, rechargeable battery with charger, owner's manuals on DVD, various cables, and a bigass suitcase to carry it around in.

I'd rather have a used professional-grade scan tool than a brand-new consumer-grade tool.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

There are 3 major players in the scantool world. Snap on, autel, and launch. Topdon and think tool I am confident are simply buying launch software. Menus,wording, layout, it's pure launch.

On all tools, functionally is retained after subscription expires. So when your updates run out, the tool simply won't work on newer vehicles, or get added features for older vehicles included in newer updates.

What features/ability you want defines unit cost. Unit cost defines update cost. What do you want to do, and on what? Is used an option?

I currently have a snap on, and topdon tool which are current. My autel ran out of subscription coverage a month or two ago. Autel and topdon will both sell you a tool which includes 1-2 years of free updates. All 3 tools have pluses and minuses. My main grab right now is the snap on zeus as it is the newest. Topdon was the new kid last month so I was using it heavily to get used to it.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Check Pine Hollow Diagnostics on YouTube. He has a special discount for Launch diagnostic tools going on NOW !

 

[AA/FC]

If you're DIY'er working on older cars with no plan on buying newer cars then annual updates really should be an issue. Every tool that I've owned, used, tried, sampled, etc (it's been a bunch) .... have worked 100% long after the free update period has run out. For $800-1000 bucks you can buy a damn nice scan tool! Everyone on here will have their own opinion, and some may laugh when I say this..... but for a DIY'er I'd buy an XTOOL D7, especially now through Cyber Monday. For $328 bucks you get a TON of scan tool for a very cheap price. The D7 received an update late last summer around the time that Autel updated their 808 line of scan tools. The D7 now has full bidirectional control actuation tests, special functions, resets, re-learns, etc, etc.... It's a no-frills device, for sure. It's only a 7 inch screen and it's corded (not wireless) to the DLC port on the vehicle but for the money you can't beat it. Oh, it also comes with 3 years of free updates. After the 3 years, updates will cost $99 bucks per year if you decided it needs to be updated for some reason.

 

[FSUwelder1212]

If you're DIY'er working on older cars with no plan on buying newer cars then annual updates really should be an issue. Every tool that I've owned, used, tried, sampled, etc (it's been a bunch) .... have worked 100% long after the free update period has run out. For $800-1000 bucks you can buy a damn nice scan tool! Everyone on here will have their own opinion, and some may laugh when I say this..... but for a DIY'er I'd buy an XTOOL D7, especially now through Cyber Monday. For $328 bucks you get a TON of scan tool for a very cheap price. The D7 received an update late last summer around the time that Autel updated their 808 line of scan tools. The D7 now has full bidirectional control actuation tests, special functions, resets, re-learns, etc, etc.... It's a no-frills device, for sure. It's only a 7 inch screen and it's corded (not wireless) to the DLC port on the vehicle but for the money you can't beat it. Oh, it also comes with 3 years of free updates. After the 3 years, updates will cost $99 bucks per year if you decided it needs to be updated for some reason.

Have you ever used the xtool? Everyone I've seen that has bought one says it's garbage and regrets the purchase. The only positive reviews I've seen have been from obvious shills that received the tool for free. I looked into them hard a little while ago and ended up going with launch.

 

[Buckaroo5]

Check out AESWave. The sell various scan tools and they also sell the updates so you can get a full price picture.

AESwave.com, labscopes scan tools and accessories for diagnostic test equipment!

Automotive diagnostic equipment sales and support for professional automotive technicians, schools, instructors, and trainers. Services include custom manufacturing and product development.

www.aeswave.com

 

[dnschmidt]

ThinkTool Pros. It's on sale today so don't screw around. Ivan of Pine Hollow Diagnostics uses it as his daily scan tool and Ivan's a genius. The PROS part is important as they make a lesser tool called the Pro. The PROS is the way to go.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08XXWHQVJ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[plcguru]

Yeah after wstching Ivan use it all the time I was real tempted to buy the proS for about $720 directly from china on aliexpress yesterday but I don't think I'll get enough use out if it to justify the cost. There's a 100 coupon there n ali has a 40 code for black Friday that's still live if someone else interested... n doesn't mind buying direct from China.
I bought my xtool a30m from ali at a deep discount previously and it showed up in a couple weeks but I guess buyer beware and use PayPal to pay lol
Here's the link https://m.aliexpress.us/item/3256801748549506.html

 

[2ndGearRubber]

For those loving Launch, thinktool and topdon - their ease of use compared to autel and snap on is much lower. It's a powerful tool no doubt. Of the big three it is the last tool I would give to an inexperienced user. It has the worst chinglish/grammer/redundant selections. Things aren't placed reliably through the tool between cars. Ivan at pinehollow could use a divining rod and still fix cars. He's the definition of a "power user". It doesn't impress me he uses launch based tools these days, it just means they're powerful. Doesn't mean they're ideal for your average shop guy or DIY. Don't think I'm hating on Ivan either, I bought his pressure transducer.

If you want support, I would highly recommend AESwave. I buy all of my tooling from them for a reason. They have your back when you need it, can answer questions, etc.

Topdon Phoenix Lite 2 Review

I made a thread a few weeks ago about buying another scan tool, which I ended up doing. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/should-i-buy-another-scan-tool-topdon.503703/ Overall, I like this tool. I have used the unit the last week at work, attempting to use it exclusively. A...

www.garagejournal.com

My topdon initial review. I'm very happy with the tool. The Snap on, Topdon, and Autel ALL fail me. And they all pick up where others fail.

 

[AA/FC]

Have you ever used the xtool? Everyone I've seen that has bought one says it's garbage and regrets the purchase. The only positive reviews I've seen have been from obvious shills that received the tool for free. I looked into them hard a little while ago and ended up going with launch.

Yes, I have. It worked just fine on all the vehicles that I used it with. Can you show me a scan tool that works great on EVERY make and model ever made? They ALL have their issues sooner or later.

 

[FSUwelder1212]

Yes, I have. It worked just fine on all the vehicles that I used it with. Can you show me a scan tool that works great on EVERY make and model ever made? They ALL have their issues sooner or later.

I wasn’t calling you out, I was genuinely curious to hear a positive review of the tool. I agree 100% that no tool does it all, hence why I have launch, snap on, and am looking at adding an Autel. In spite of all those tools I still see a huge gap working on late model duramax emission systems that no aftermarket tool covers (including the snap on) the functions may be there but they don’t work right. So on top of my aftermarket stuff, I still need GDS2. Just one example of many I’m sure where the aftermarket’s fail.

I see some people suggesting snap on, my opinion is snap on has fallen behind the Chinese in their diagnostic tool functionality, I have a modis edge and it rarely sees action unless I need the scope.

 

[richfinn]

I have access to a few "generic" multibrand tools, Thinkdiag/Autocom/Bosch they all work pretty good and have different strengths/weaknesses.

I wouldn't do that with my own money though, I would just have one "Generic tool" and then buy seperate aftermarket or brand specific tools to cover my needs (Like VCDS for VW/Audi or Forscan for Ford). They are generally developed by people who understand the factory tools and systems and offer a better experience) especially if you work on slightly older stuff.

The biggest issue is navigating Chinese tools and missing info, Launch based software has good coverage for the money but can be a PITA, but might be OK if your not in a rush.

What brands of vehicle are you working on?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I see some people suggesting snap on, my opinion is snap on has fallen behind the Chinese in their diagnostic tool functionality, I have a modis edge and it rarely sees action unless I need the scope.

Guided component test is so nice, even just as primitive service info. The nice thing with SO is reliability, if it has it, it will typically work/be correct/etc. Even just testing an alternator and knowing pin position, if it's pull up/down for PWM command, etc. I can 100% do that myself with a wiring diagram and a scope, but it's less effort.

SO makes a good scanner, IMO their issue is price vs launch/autel. If you could buy a Solus for $1500 or less it'd be a different story.

 

[AA/FC]

I wasn’t calling you out, I was genuinely curious to hear a positive review of the tool. I agree 100% that no tool does it all, hence why I have launch, snap on, and am looking at adding an Autel. In spite of all those tools I still see a huge gap working on late model duramax emission systems that no aftermarket tool covers (including the snap on) the functions may be there but they don’t work right. So on top of my aftermarket stuff, I still need GDS2. Just one example of many I’m sure where the aftermarket’s fail.

I see some people suggesting snap on, my opinion is snap on has fallen behind the Chinese in their diagnostic tool functionality, I have a modis edge and it rarely sees action unless I need the scope.

Of the scan tools that I own, my favorite is my Autel 908.... It's currently out of subscription at this point (as of 2020) but it still works great. I own several scan tools including Autel and XTOOL (and others) and honestly, the XTOOL is pretty good. The current software in the XTOOL D7 can do 99% of everything that my Autel 908 can do with 2020 software. (on vehicles that I've plugged into) And considering it's about 5 times cheaper than the Autel (and updates are only 99 bucks) that makes it a pretty damn good deal. Is it perfect, Nope.... But for 328 bucks I don't expect it to be perfect. It's plain Jane for sure... it has a small screen, has old version of Androind software, (But so does the $5000 Autel MS Ultra) poor battery life, with a short data cable..... but all of that is okay because it's only $328 bucks. lolol.

Everyone I've seen that has bought one says it's garbage and regrets the purchase

I agree..... that is all you see.... but that is true for ANY product, not just scan tools. Very rarely do you see anyone take precious time from their life to write a detailed compliment about any given product. Sure, there are a few compliments found on the internet but it's very rare. On the other side of the coin...... people will MOST CERTAINLY take the time to write a bad or even terrible review about a product that pissed them off. Negative reviews are everywhere. Now I'm not saying you should ignore those negative reviews but take into consideration the number of XTOOL scan tools that were sold to people who were 100% happy with the item and never wrote anything about them. Consider how many of those negative reviews were written by people who had no clue how to even use a scan tool in the first place, then got confused because it didn't magically fix there car with the swipe of their finger, and immediately wrote a negative review..... Or the people who wrote a negative review because Amazon shipping *****, which has nothing to do with the scan tool, but they wrote the negative review anyway. Or the people who wrote a negative review because they received a defective unit. It happens. Even Snap-on makes defective items from time to time.

All I'm saying is not EVERY one of those negative reviews is accurate, and don't forget about all the scan tools that were sold with happy customers.

 

[SAK335]

I have an Autel MS906TS which is higher level tool. It essentially can do most things *except* for coding modules. I decided against buying one that did that (since I'm just a DIY'er) because you also need a subscription to the manufacturer data in order to do that. At least that's what my research told me. I believe that I paid around $1300 about 4+ years ago. I suspect you could buy one used for a much more reasonable price, but I've never looked.

Anyway, I have used this only on Euro cars (BMWs, Mercedes, and Range Rover) and have never come across anything it wasn't able to do that I have needed it for. The Mercedes is where I used it the most, for working on air suspension, NOx sensors, DEF heaters, and other general stuff. The BMW was primarily resetting maintenance lights and brake work. The Range Rover so far has been used for diagnosing DPF issues and relearning throttle body calibrations and activating various solenoids to track down emissions codes. In all cases, using the live data and graphing functions have proven invaluable for figuring out faults.

All in all, it's been a good tool and my only complaint is the cost of updates (new it came with two years of updates.) I've not paid for any because I haven't bought any newer model year vehicles. The cost of an update is roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of the cost of the tool, so hopefully it doesn't need it anytime soon. The other thing about the tool that I find frustrating is that there are essentially no instructions. Every manufacturer acts differently on the tool, and you spend a lot of time in trial/error searching around for where things are. I used to get mad at Autel until I realized this has everything to do with the car manufacturers and not necessarily them. The tool itself has held up well, battery life is still excellent and it's still fast as it ever was.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Coding is not programing. A 906 can do basic coding. You need a j2534 pass thru device to upload manufacturer software. But personalizing and module initialization a 906 can do. Obviously coverage depends on vehicle.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

If you want a tool laid out the same for every brand, snap on is king. I don't mind the autel layout, as I believe it is supposed to be based on the factory tooling layout.

 

[FSUwelder1212]

Guided component test is so nice, even just as primitive service info. The nice thing with SO is reliability, if it has it, it will typically work/be correct/etc. Even just testing an alternator and knowing pin position, if it's pull up/down for PWM command, etc. I can 100% do that myself with a wiring diagram and a scope, but it's less effort.

SO makes a good scanner, IMO their issue is price vs launch/autel. If you could buy a Solus for $1500 or less it'd be a different story.

I have to agree that guided component test is a value add for the snap on. I thought it was a gimmicky crutch at first like their fast track BS, but having that info at your fingertips is worth its weight in gold.

 

[anndel]

I have the Thinktools ProS and SNap-on Zeus. The ProS is a little bit faster on the connect and the topology is a big help and use it as my first choice for scanning codes and some bi-directional triggers. I use the SO for more in-depth diganostics and graphing plus it has a 4-channel scope module.

 

[toolenthusiast]

BTW I don't have a late model vehicles and don't plan on buying a new car/truck anytime soon.

Then who cares about the update cost? Just buy an older tool on ebay that has new enough software for your vehicles. What’s your newest car?

 

[pbon]

I think significant functionality may be lost of some of these tools if the subscription is not maintained because the tools are partially cloud based. For example, there are reports that oil reset is not possible on a 2020 Porsche Cayenne using an Autel MX808 if the subscription is not current. That is probably a $400 tool with a $100 per year subscription. My $2400 Launch 431 PAD V subscription is $400 per year, I think.

 

[AA/FC]

I think significant functionality may be lost of some of these tools if the subscription is not maintained because the tools are partially cloud based. For example, there are reports that oil reset is not possible on a 2020 Porsche Cayenne using an Autel MX808 if the subscription is not current. That is probably a $400 tool with a $100 per year subscription. My $2400 Launch 431 PAD V subscription is $400 per year, I think.

That's possible on the really new stuff. I'm not sure when scan tools started using the "cloud" to operate certain functions on vehicles but it wasn't very long ago. In that situation, yes it is possible to reduce the total function of the tool when the subscription has expired. However, for every other vehicle that you plug into that does NOT use the cloud, most scan tools (if not all) should work 100%. Every scan tool that I've ever used has retained it's full ability after the sub ran out. Yes, I've heard of some older tools years ago where users had trouble with the device once the sub ran out but I'm pretty sure those days are long gone..... But you're correct about the newer stuff.

And on a side note..... Not only do you need a current sub for those vehicles requireing the cloud, you also need to make sure your scan tool has an internet connection. It's not really a huge deal because most guys have a cell phone in their pocket that can share it's mobile internet connection through it's Wifi Hotspot but it still a bunch of added BS and complexity..... Considering scan tools have worked as a stand-alone device just fine ever since scan tools were invented. lolol. Technology.... it's a love/hate relationship with me. lolol

 

[signcrafter]

I didnt read all the replies but I was in about the same boat as you. Needed something to do majority of things on a variety of different vehicles. I do my own and also friends and family repairs. But not enough to pay for yearly subscriptions and run it as a full time shop. I went with the autel 906bt and have been very happy with it. Think I paid around 1200 for it almost 2 years ago now. I let the subscription run out because like i said i dont do this full time. As far as i know it still does everything i need it to. I dont work on brand new vehicles, people that have brand new take them to the dealership for warranty work. Everything i work on is 2000 to 2020 so my scan tool will do what i need. When i get to the point a couple years down the road i will just buy a new scan tool. It's good to have multiple brands anyway since some are better then others at certain manufacturers. My last scan tool was an autel maxidas ds708 that I got 2013ish. That did everything I needed until about 2 years ago when I bought the 906bt. So I get 6 or 7 years out of it and then just buy new. With how vehicles are evolving I'm not sure how long this one will last.

One thing I have read but I'm not that knowledgable on it, maybe 2ndgear can expand, is autoauth. Think that's what it's called. In order to do certain things on newer cars you have to have your scan tool up to date with subscription and also subscribe to this autoauth in order to get into the vehicle communication. So that may be where up to date subscription is needed on newer vehicles. But again, think this is only on newer vehicles and only certain ones, think chrysler is a big one. And again I havent really looked into this much because I havent ran into an issue so hopefully someone will correct me or expand on this. But for older vehicles not having a subscription isnt a big deal as far as I know. And don't get subscription from manufacturer, there are other cheaper sources out there. But do make sure you buy from a reputable authorized dealer.

 

[Wrench97]

I didnt read all the replies but I was in about the same boat as you. Needed something to do majority of things on a variety of different vehicles. I do my own and also friends and family repairs. But not enough to pay for yearly subscriptions and run it as a full time shop. I went with the autel 906bt and have been very happy with it. Think I paid around 1200 for it almost 2 years ago now. I let the subscription run out because like i said i dont do this full time. As far as i know it still does everything i need it to. I dont work on brand new vehicles, people that have brand new take them to the dealership for warranty work. Everything i work on is 2000 to 2020 so my scan tool will do what i need. When i get to the point a couple years down the road i will just buy a new scan tool. It's good to have multiple brands anyway since some are better then others at certain manufacturers. My last scan tool was an autel maxidas ds708 that I got 2013ish. That did everything I needed until about 2 years ago when I bought the 906bt. So I get 6 or 7 years out of it and then just buy new. With how vehicles are evolving I'm not sure how long this one will last.

One thing I have read but I'm not that knowledgable on it, maybe 2ndgear can expand, is autoauth. Think that's what it's called. In order to do certain things on newer cars you have to have your scan tool up to date with subscription and also subscribe to this autoauth in order to get into the vehicle communication. So that may be where up to date subscription is needed on newer vehicles. But again, think this is only on newer vehicles and only certain ones, think chrysler is a big one. And again I havent really looked into this much because I havent ran into an issue so hopefully someone will correct me or expand on this. But for older vehicles not having a subscription isnt a big deal as far as I know. And don't get subscription from manufacturer, there are other cheaper sources out there. But do make sure you buy from a reputable authorized dealer.

That's Chryslers Secure Gateway, it's a security protocol used on 2018 and newer Chrysler products.
Your tool has to be regisrated and you need a working internet connection for the gateway/tool to verify identity/registration before it will let you do anything more then read OBD2 codes.
There are some work arounds like piggybacking into the can bus downstream of the gateway to let you get most things done.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Have you decided on any front runners OP?