Should all garage outlets be GFCI?

[vern1]

I am undertaking some wiring on my new garage. Have added lights and 110v outlets (3) and am just reading up on installing a 240v plug for a heater. Am also thinking about building an extension cord so I can move the 5000w heater around the garage where I am working. Most of the time I will be working on the car and although I don't plan to be spraying a hose around, there is a floor drain and I will be using water occasionally in my detailing. Should all my outlets be GFCI just to be safe?

Thanks!

 

[jkeyser14]

Yes, they should. The quality of GFCI outlets has improved tremendously the past few years as well, so you shouldn't have any false trips.

 

[Norcal]

120 volt receptacles are required to have GFCI protection in a garage, shop, shed, but 240 volt ones are not.

 

[Ray-CA]

I believe that you can install a GFI in the first outlet on the circuit and that will protect all the other outlets, downstream on that circuit. If you put more than one GFI on the same circuit, they will "fight" each other and end up tripping off all the time.

Ray

 

[vern1]

Ok thanks. Couple of more: since I have 3 of the 110v plugs on one breaker can just one of the outlets be gfci as that trips them all? if the 240v outlet runs the heater and I believe the cord is 12/3, should the extension cord be 10/3? The extension cord would be 20' max

Thanks again

 

[vern1]

You guys are fast! So the gfci should be in the first outlet ie the one closest to the breaker? Even if the 240v doesn't require it by code wouldn't it be a good idea if the extension cord is on the ground and possibly near water?

 

[Toolfool]

As stated by Ray-CA, the first outlet in the circuit should be a GFCI.

 

[Angelfire]

Or just use a gfci breaker to feed the recepts.

 

[vern1]

All the 110 stuff is already in and I believe replacing just the one outlet with the gfci would be cheaper than the breaker, correct?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

You guys are fast! So the gfci should be in the first outlet ie the one closest to the breaker? Even if the 240v doesn't require it by code wouldn't it be a good idea if the extension cord is on the ground and possibly near water?

You probably don't want to price a 240v GFCI breaker (and they don't make GFCI receptacles for 240v so the breaker is the only choice).

Charles

 

[vern1]

Charles thanks I didn't know they didn't sell gfci receptacles. So is it common practise not to have 240 gfci breakers due to cost?

 

[pattenp]

Charles thanks I didn't know they didn't sell gfci receptacles. So is it common practise not to have 240 gfci breakers due to cost?

Since it's not a NEC requirement is the most common reason they are not used along with the cost. A double pole GFCI breaker can run from $70 to over $100 depending on the brand and size. I bought one for my portable heater circuit which was a 20A Cutler Hammer CH style and paid around $125.

 

[Scoutman]

Side question...... So how much does a standard 110 say 20A breaker cost? I have a square d home line box.

 

[pattenp]

Side question...... So how much does a standard 110 say 20A breaker cost? I have a square d home line box.

$3 to $4

 

[kenfath]

Lowes price $39.57
HD $35.97
Prices are fo GFCI breakers.

 

[pattenp]

Sorry, you said standard. The GFCI single pole 20A is around $35 as kenfath stated.

 

[Scoutman]

Lowes price $39.57
HD $35.97
Prices are fo GFCI breakers.

Thanks, you knew what I meant (gfci breaker)

 

[KPSquared]

I have no GFCI on my garage. Not required by code on a detached here. So, therefore, I put none. I've never been electrocuted but I have been pissed off by constantly tripped GFCI's.

Kinda like helmet and seatbelt laws I guess. . .

 

[pattenp]

I have no GFCI on my garage. Not required by code on a detached here. So, therefore, I put none. I've never been electrocuted but I have been pissed off by constantly tripped GFCI's.

Kinda like helmet and seatbelt laws I guess. . .

Well that's kind of obvious since you're here to write your post.

 

[KPSquared]

Mabye I should rephrase. . .I've never been electrocuted badly. . .been hit a few times.

 

[pattenp]

Mabye I should rephrase. . .I've never been electrocuted badly. . .been hit a few times.

Electrocuted means dead.... there is no more or less about it. I think shocked is the word you're looking for.

We electrocute people here in Virginia for capital punishment.

 

[KPSquared]

Huh. Learn somethin new everyday. . . Yup.

 

[vern1]

Anyone have any advice on my 240v extension cord question? ie should I use 10/3 if the main cord for the heater is 12/3?

I dont believe that GFCI's are required for detached garages here but I guess its a judgement call on whether its worth $125 for the 240v and $35 for the 110v just to be better protected. Its not cheap but if I go with an extension cord on the 240v outlet sounds like its prob a good idea

Thanks for all the advice

 

[Stuart in MN]

We don't know where 'here' is, so it's hard to advise on whether GFCIs are required.

As for the extension cord, using 10 gauge wire will cost more of course but it won't hurt anything. Whether you can use 12 gauge depends on the length of the cord - unless your garage is gigantic, it probably won't be long enough that you need to worry about voltage drop.

 

[pattenp]

I use a #12 20ft extension cord with my portable heater and my portable A/C which both have #12 cords that use the 240V 20A circuit. The x-cord does fine, doesn't get hot and the heater pulls 16A. But, I wouldn't use a cord over 25 feet.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If u use an soow type cord, u could use 12/3 since its only 20' and the heater is 240v, u shouldn't have much voltage drop. 12/3 soow is rated for 25a and your 5000w heater draws about 21a. You can check ampacity ratings for soow cord here: www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/pr...e&token=282&desc=Viper+Rubber+Type+SOOW+Black

 

[ovilla]

A 220V 60AMP GFCI is not that expensive. I put one in for my hot tub and it was about $60 at Menards. Anyway, go on your city inspectors website and check out what code is for your city and then follow their directions. If they don't have info on their site, then just call them from a work phone (if you don't want them knowing who you are) and ask them what is code.


Why are you using 12 or even 10 gauge on a 220 line? What amp circuit breaker are you needing for the heater? Is it a 30amp? I was just thinking that if you could go a little bigger on the 220 line then you'd be set for a future welder too.

 

[pattenp]

ovilla made a good point. I didn't think about it but if your heater is 5000 watts then that's almost 21 amps @ 240V, which means you need at least a 25A circuit. What kind of plug is on the heater cord?

 

[Falcon67]

All my 120V plug runs start with a GFCI. The old shop was the same way. In the last 14 years, I have not had a single false trip that I can remember. And those circuits have grinders, drill press, lathe, sanders, smaller air compressors, etc, etc used on them.

 

[vern1]

Here is Toronto. The breaker will be 30 amp and the heater plug is a 6-30R. The wire out of the heater is 12

 

[Stuart in MN]

Here is Toronto.

That's good to know - people tend to think that posts here are all made by people in the USA, and while it's mostly similar the electrical code in Canada does have some differences.

 

[ishiboo]

Here is Toronto. The breaker will be 30 amp and the heater plug is a 6-30R. The wire out of the heater is 12

Just a sidenote - just because an appliance uses a certain gauge wire does not mean you can use the same to supply it. (Not that you didn't know that, just saying.) Appliances often use a smaller gauge wire as the distance is VERY short and temperature and other conditions are all known and accounted for.

 

[vern1]

Just a sidenote - just because an appliance uses a certain gauge wire does not mean you can use the same to supply it. (Not that you didn't know that, just saying.) Appliances often use a smaller gauge wire as the distance is VERY short and temperature and other conditions are all known and accounted for.

I am new to all this so dont know much!! But learning. I just figured that since the cord on the heater was 12 that a 10 or 12 would be ok for an extension cord (and i think most guys agreed with that didnt they). I am running 10 from the breaker out of the panel to the outlet

If i am running a 30A breaker on the 240 plug would that not be sufficient for a small welder?

Thanks

 

[Zeke]

If i am running a 30A breaker on the 240 plug would that not be sufficient for a small welder?

Thanks

That's what I use. You will read here that you can up that breaker if the circuit is used for welding only. But I get by on 30A for stick welding up to 150A so far. The inverter TIG is no problem at all, but I haven't put the pedal to the wood on that yet.

 

[vern1]

Thanks Zeke

 

[pattenp]

I am new to all this so dont know much!! But learning. I just figured that since the cord on the heater was 12 that a 10 or 12 would be ok for an extension cord (and i think most guys agreed with that didnt they). I am running 10 from the breaker out of the panel to the outlet

If i am running a 30A breaker on the 240 plug would that not be sufficient for a small welder?

Thanks

Even though the heater has #12 cord the critical info you gave later was that the plug is a 6-30. That would dictate that the extension cord should be #10 and the supply circuit should be 30A for the heater.

 

[vern1]

Even though the heater has #12 cord the critical info you gave later was that the plug is a 6-30. That would dictate that the extension cord should be #10 and the supply circuit should be 30A for the heater.

Ok thanks. I am wiring up the circuit this weekend and it will be 30A with the 6-30 outlet. If i go with an extension cord i will use #10 wire

By the way i bought a small propane bullet heater (30-60k btu) and tested it out yesterday in the garage. It really heated the place up fast so i think it will work well to raise the heat level fast and then i will use the electric heater to maintain

 

[pattenp]

Just be careful using the propane heater in an enclosed area. Leave some ventilation for fresh air.

 

[vern1]

Just be careful using the propane heater in an enclosed area. Leave some ventilation for fresh air.

Will do. Will leave the door or window open a bit till the heater is off. From what i saw yesterday I prob wont need it on for more than 30-45 mins but will provide some fresh air during that time. Since the heater is on the floor I will prob just open the garage bay door a couple of inches to feed it

Thanks again

 

[pattenp]

Will do. Will leave the door or window open a bit till the heater is off. From what i saw yesterday I prob wont need it on for more than 30-45 mins but will provide some fresh air during that time. Since the heater is on the floor I will prob just open the garage bay door a couple of inches to feed it

Thanks again

I figured you'd know to do that. You'd be surprised how many people don't read the instructions and die every year from carbon monoxide poisoning.