Should I get a Goodman??

[blown90camaro]

I know I'm asking for alot but I need some quick help!

Long story short, a guy who owns his own HVAC business owes me some cash. Instead of said cash he is going to install a HVAC system in my new shop I just built. 30'x34', 10 ft high ceilings for 20' of the length and the last 14' is vaulted for the lift. The attic space will be heated and cooled as it's 8ft tall and 12'x20' makes for a nice for a pool table! It is a pole barn but all wood minus the roof (yes I will make a build thread, working on all the pics now!).

The question is he wants to install a Goodman GSC14030 and ARUF31B14 air handler. I currently have a Goodman on my house and have had no problems, but it was here when I bought it. I've heard so many people bad mouth the GSC line I just don't really kow enough about HVAC to go in the right direction. Should I push for another brand? Go for the GSX line for a better warranty? Any help is appreciated planning the install for next week.


Thanks
Tony

 

[nsula_country]

Goodman is not my 1st choice, but is good equipment (I install Rheem/Rudd on my projects). Equipment is basically the same quality regardless of brand, for given model class (Base14 seer single stage, Mid range16 seer 2 stage, High End 18 seer variabe speed). They all have Copeland Scrolls in them.

HVAC efficiency and longevity is 90% installation workmanship. In the event of failure, most brands have a 10yr parts warranty if registered. I'd worry more about your HVAC guy's skills and ethics than brand of equipment.

CT

 

[blown90camaro]

Just what I was looking for, thanks. You are probably right I should worry more about him. There's a reason I put a tracker on the car I sold him...

 

[Ohmthis]

I know I'm asking for alot but I need some quick help!

Long story short, a guy who owns his own HVAC business owes me some cash. Instead of said cash he is going to install a HVAC system in my new shop I just built. 30'x34', 10 ft high ceilings for 20' of the length and the last 14' is vaulted for the lift. The attic space will be heated and cooled as it's 8ft tall and 12'x20' makes for a nice for a pool table! It is a pole barn but all wood minus the roof (yes I will make a build thread, working on all the pics now!).

The question is he wants to install a Goodman GSC14030 and ARUF31B14 air handler. I currently have a Goodman on my house and have had no problems, but it was here when I bought it. I've heard so many people bad mouth the GSC line I just don't really kow enough about HVAC to go in the right direction. Should I push for another brand? Go for the GSX line for a better warranty? Any help is appreciated planning the install for next week.


Thanks
Tony

I'm not sure how much he owes you, but I'll throw some things to think about. That condenser is pretty old. It uses R22 (I'm not knocking it), which is being phased out and is very expensive. The unit is shipped dry with no refrigerant. The air handler would require a resistive heat strip installed and costs $$$$$ to run. So here are some questions
1) Do you want/need heat with the AC?
2) Are you paying anything out of your pocket?
3) Is the job duct work, all labor, and all materials?
4) Do you have NG on the property?
Here's my take, the AC unit is obsolete and may cost you exponentially more over its life span based on the R22. It is a basic unit and is in the $500-$600 range (wholesale cost). The air handled is also a basic model and would cost $400-$500. If it were me, I would want a heat pump (15-16 seer) if no NG is there, a better AH, metal duct work, and a programmable Tstat. Don't let him cheap you out. Let us know what's up.

 

[nsula_country]

I'm not sure how much he owes you, but I'll throw some things to think about. That condenser is pretty old. It uses R22 (I'm not knocking it), which is being phased out and is very expensive. The unit is shipped dry with no refrigerant. The air handler would require a resistive heat strip installed and costs $$$$$ to run. So here are some questions
1) Do you want/need heat with the AC?
2) Are you paying anything out of your pocket?
3) Is the job duct work, all labor, and all materials?
4) Do you have NG on the property?
Here's my take, the AC unit is obsolete and may cost you exponentially more over its life span based on the R22. It is a basic unit and is in the $500-$600 range (wholesale cost). The air handled is also a basic model and would cost $400-$500. If it were me, I would want a heat pump (15-16 seer) if no NG is there, a better AH, metal duct work, and a programmable Tstat. Don't let him cheap you out. Let us know what's up.

I did not look up model numbers... If this is a R22 new old stock, used or dry charge... Don't walk, run! Most likely 13 seer or less too. R22 is over $600 a keg now!

No way I'd install a R22 system unless it was free! And not like for payment free, but someone left if on the door step free and it installed itself overnight!

Current model Airhandler, Condenser, Coil, lineset, pad, electrical, ect is $2000-$2500 (depending on tonnage, HP, ect) contractor supply house cost... Additional for ducting, plenum, ect. Just FYI of what your looking at in terms of value he should be supplying you if all new equipment.

R410a Heat Pump would be my 1st choice. Straight AC with resistive heat 2nd if no gas avail. Electric heat is not evil, it just depends on your kWh cost.

CT

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Goodman is not my 1st choice, but is good equipment (I install Rheem/Rudd on my projects). Equipment is basically the same quality regardless of brand, for given model class (Base14 seer single stage, Mid range16 seer 2 stage, High End 18 seer variabe speed). They all have Copeland Scrolls in them.

HVAC efficiency and longevity is 90% installation workmanship. In the event of failure, most brands have a 10yr parts warranty if registered. I'd worry more about your HVAC guy's skills and ethics than brand of equipment.

CT

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I did not look up model numbers... If this is a R22 new old stock, used or dry charge... Don't walk, run! Most likely 13 seer or less too. R22 is over $600 a keg now!

No way I'd install a R22 system unless it was free! And not like for payment free, but someone left if on the door step free and it installed itself overnight!

Current model Airhandler, Condenser, Coil, lineset, pad, electrical, ect is $2000-$2500 (depending on tonnage, HP, ect) contractor supply house cost... Additional for ducting, plenum, ect. Just FYI of what your looking at in terms of value he should be supplying you if all new equipment.

R410a Heat Pump would be my 1st choice. Straight AC with resistive heat 2nd if no gas avail. Electric heat is not evil, it just depends on your kWh cost.

CT

There's nothing wrong with an r22 condensing unit,theres plenty of them out there running strong.
As long as the guy knows what he's doing there's no reason it shouldnt run trouble free for 15 years with basic maintenance just like any 410a system should.
There will be drop in replacements available for r22 for a long time.

 

[dandan111]

Nice garage!

 

[nsula_country]

There's nothing wrong with an r22 condensign unit,theres,plenty of them out there running strong.
As lon as the guy no what he's doing there's no reason it shouldnt run trouble free for 15 years with basic maintenance just like any 410a system should.
There will be drop in replacements available for r22 for a long time.

I'm employed, as an engineer by the company that manufactures Copeland Scroll compressors. I can say that R22 compressors manufacturing volume had dropped tremendously in the past couple years. We make less than 5% volume (very low production) in R22, and most of those are for special commercial service model applications. The days of the dry charge condenser is almost over.

With that said... Yes, it should run 15+ years if installed correctly. I have one that is 22 years strong on a rental. But I personally wouldn't install one new today.

CT

 

[600SL]

I have a Goodman and so far so good. I did feel the sheet metal was a gauge or two thinner than the previous Reehm's I installed. Maybe they are all like that today. But I will say that my installation cost were much higher than expected. Paid $2500 for a new 16 Seer 3.5 ton system. All the rest of the stuff miraculously added up to another $2500+. So if you find a system for $500 more it really is only 10% more not the 20% it looks to be.

 

[blown90camaro]

Thanks for all the replys!!

Some questions answered, I sold this guy a vehicle and allowed him to make me payments on it for a 12 month term. The install of the HVAC system is the interest. I originally wanted a mini-split. In our contract I had it show a 40kbtu unit. Once he actually seen the price he asked me if I would mind a traditional split system if he included all the vents and duct work.

Obviously having a nice even distribution would be alot better so I'm all for it. I just found out today those two systems are now discontinued by Goodman. I told him today per the contract I'm not getting a discontinued system. The comparable current Goodman is 410a and told him that's the lowest I would accept.

I'm sure he is just trying to save every penny possible. Which I don't mind as long as I get a good system that takes car of my needs. Lastly, no gas is available just electric. The cost really isn't bad and I won't be heating it a ton.

 

[ctfjr]

fwiw, I have 6 condensing units in our house. Two were Goodman. After a few years I noticed the paint was fading badly on these two. They are both on a north side, 0 direct sun. When I opened the panel on one to replace the tstat wire that some rodent munched on I saw that almost every sheet metal screw was a rusted mess. I checked the other units (3) next to it and only the Goodman was deteriorating. When a compressor went after 4 years they made me jump through hoops to get a warranty. I had to provide the contractor who installed it, his name, adr & phone number. Ditto on the service company who diagnosed the failure as well as service records showing it had been serviced properly by licensed contractors over its lifetime. On top of that they wanted a $150 'service fee' for handling the warrantee. Only after I wrote the state's consumer protection agency (and sent them a copy) did they waive the fee.
I'd never buy another Goodman.

 

[bp460]

Please remember to register the furnace... it usually doubles the warranty. I believe you have to do it online now, as they do not provide a card to mail in. I learned this lesson the hard way.

-Brad

 

[Want2race]

I'm not sure I would mind the brand. As folks have said anything sub 410a isn't ok. The gas cost will crippled you long term.ive seen plenty of Goldman units last 10 years

Also got to make sure that he uses new ducts. I've heard horror stories of guys using stuff from mold filled houses because it looked "near new"

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I'm not sure I would mind the brand. As folks have said anything sub 410a isn't ok. The gas cost will crippled you long term.ive seen plenty of Goldman units last 10 years

Also got to make sure that he uses new ducts. I've heard horror stories of guys using stuff from mold filled houses because it looked "near new"

As long as it's properly installed you shouldn't have any leaks to deal with,no matter what brand or type of refrigerant in the system.

 

[mrpizza]

He is trying to give you to **** at his shop he cant sell.

 

[mygarageone]

I'll say it again , I service more Goodmans up here than anything else out there.
I wouldn't put one in my house period.

 

[nsula_country]

He is trying to give you to **** at his shop he cant sell.

+1 Old stock, hard to sell, unload it on someone who doesn't know/care...

Goodman has one of the largest, if not the largest HVAC assembly lines in the US. Over 10k units a day in Houston TX. Goodman isn't a bad brand... Just not my 1st choice.

CT

 

[mrpizza]

Goodman would be my 5th or 6th choice.

I sell new systems to replace goodman equipment more than any other.

 

[shelteredV]

We use nothing but Trane. On my builds, I spec the most efficient equipment available and my HVAC man is awesome. I leave it up to him to specify the actual equipment, and system design, within certain parameters because he knows better than me, the architect, or anyone else. In your case, you might want someone else to oversee this project because it doesn't look like this guy is going to look after your best interests, to say the least.

 

[larry4406]

I have a Goodman heat pump in my house, 16SEER variable speed and knock on wood has worked excellent for 3.5 years so far.

 

[billspit]

I thought Goodman made a lot of other peoples units. They didn't really start putting their names on them until 10-15 years ago.

 

[American Locomotive]

The only brand Goodman made as far as I know was Amana.

I've seen a lot of disdain for Goodman units, often by HVAC installers. They usually say the sheet metal is much thinner than other makes, and tends to develop rattles. The paint is bad and starts to fade. I've also heard that they tend to be much louder despite using "copeland scrolls". Goodmans are cheap, low end units.

I would push for Trane, Carrier or Rheem/Ruud.

 

[Showkey]

Think part of the destain is caused by GOODMAN units are available to the general public through online sources. These suppliers were the first of many that broke the supply chain allowing DIY installs. Saving $1000's.....

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

There's many brands that can be bought online not just goodman.
It's a free country people can buy what ever they want.
I'd never buy another dodge truck,even if it was given to me for free.
But other people still buy them,so be it.
I think most things that are built buy ge are over rated ,cheaply built junk.
But people still buy them also,its a free freaking market folks.
If everybody liked and bought the same stuff it would be a really boring world.

 

[toyotadriver]

I had a Goodman heat pump in my last house and it was fine. I did have to fix some of the installer's retarded mistakes though.

 

[yeldogt]

Goodman for years only made basic equipment -- builder grade stuff. Going into developments large and small / residential and commercial. They always made a better line with a few extra bells and whistles/ thicker cabinet. Better being relative. They bought Amana -- Amana is Goodman's high end line. The company has been bought and sold a few times .. now owned by Daikin.

It's always been one of the lines available to the general public .. every hack with a few tools who does HVAC on the side bought Goodman. To be honest -- lots of equipment is improperly installed -- but a higher number of Goodman units fall into that category.

Two of the better (my opinion), well established HVAC companies in my area use Goodman .. as the entry line. It's not top of the line leading edge equipment. All the manufacturers make a "builder grade" line. I would rather have Goodman's main line vs a builder grade from someone else.

Today, it's all about efficiency ... and I think you should install a HP -- for the small difference in price vs straight air .. it will be worth it.

I have a few rentals. If one of my HVAC guys said to me. I can install a leftover properly matched R12 13 system for "X" lower vs a R410 15 system. The R12 would not be the factor... I have systems untouched for 15 years. With the cost of r12 -- that may not be possible today. I did this a few years back when my guy still had some of the small Carrier condensers around - they work great in the city.

Sounds like your guy wants to install what he has or can get the cheapest vs what you need and would want .. be happy with.

 

[Showkey]

Agree..........This also has the similar sound of Ford-Dodge-Chevy pickup or who makes the best wash machine............

Look is a new furnace and AC unit...........you might find all the same or similar switches, sensors , valves, wires and connnectors and even control boards across all brands.

A friend Florida has put a new trane evaporator coil ( gold series) in his home every 2.5-3 years like clock work. First couple under warranty .........environment and use has more to do with some issues than brand.

 

[blown90camaro]

Thanks for all the responses!

So me and the installer talked and he is getting the new current Goodman Unit with 410a. Told me he got the number wrong when he gave it to me before but we all know that's ********. he should be installing it Thursday or Friday and I'm gonna have my dad (previous Res & Commercial Contractor) come over and check it out after just to make sure everything is right.

Hopefully everything goes well!

 

[nsula_country]

Awesome. Properly installed, Goodman will serve you well. Glad he came around with the old stock BS he was trying to unload on you after you helped him out!

Pictures please after install! Subscribed!

CT

 

[toyotadriver]

Post some pics of the install when it's done too!!

 

[D45]

I have a Goodman furnace and Goodman A/C unit........been installed since 2004

No issues and the price was great

 

[brownbagg]

I like my goodman, about ten years, there not much to a furnace, a squirrel cage, a burn area. either gas or electric, a place for a coil.that it, really any brand is good. my goodman has gave me zero problems

 

[Ohmthis]

I'm glad he is going to work with you.

 

[ant.foste]

Back in '06 or '07 a friends wife called in the bitterly cold dead of winter. She said their upstairs heat pump was not working and the condenser unit was making funny noises. I went over to check it out and that old beast condenser was done for. Long story short: my friend was deployed at the time to a'stan, his wife and very little bitty twins had no heat in their bedrooms, and money was tight for them until the kids were a little bit older and she would go back to work.

It was Jan or Feb in MD and the high temperature was 16 degrees the day I went to see what was wrong. I still very clearly remember that strong, frigid, wind blowing through the wind tunnel between her house and the neighbors, just a block from the Bay.

I sourced a Goodman R22 ****-SEER unit and put it in for her. It was a very basic, zero frills machine but it worked better than the completely worn out unit it replaced. The unit I installed is still there and working very well with the exception of losing a capacitor last summer or the summer before.

That said, I'm looking at replacing one of the 5 ton systems in my house right now, and it will not be with a Goodman. In a pinch- sure. In a rental or a flip- sure. In my own home that I intend to be in for the long-term and the condenser is on the other side of a wall two feet away from where I sleep every night- no thanks.

 

[ctfjr]

fwiw. . .

https://www.furnacecompare.com/air-conditioners/goodman/reviews/

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

fwiw. . .

https://www.furnacecompare.com/air-conditioners/goodman/reviews/

I'd be willing to bet most homeowners wouldn't have a clue about what brand or furnace they had if it didn't have a name on it or somebody told them what it was.
It also depends on who's being surveyed and who's asking the questions,I could make a survey say anything I want just by asking differant questions.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

If you go on the homepage of that site they list a goodman as #9 of the top 10 of furnaces of 2017.
Check the other brands on their list,they all happen to be brands they sell I bet.
Yeah I put a lot of stock into anything they have to say!

 

[nsula_country]

If you go on the homepage of that site they list a goodman as #9 of the top 10 of furnaces of 2017.
Check the other brands on their list,they all happen to be brands they sell I bet.
Yeah I put a lot of stock into anything they have to say!

LOL... Surveys are a select stock of surveyors... Your right on surveys... But... Goodman floods the market in quantity... More builder grade units than mid and upper range units on the market. Not to say Goodman Doesn't have high end units.... .... But most are builder grade. That's their bread n butter... Base models. And they do that well!

CT

 

[driftpin]

My childhood friend is a long-time master HVAC contractor (30+ years) in south FL, where I also live. He sells/installs Rheem/RUUD the most. I've had installed in two homes, Bryant outside, Carrier inside systems and in one, my AC bills went from just under $300/month to $130/month in the same month of the summer, Aug. (SEER of 19.5) He'll install a Goodman system if that's what the owner wants, but he'll tell them they will probably face replacement of components sooner than if they listened to him and installed a Rheem/RUUD. The part may be free, but his labor isn't!

Not that it matters to some, but these days, some people believe in ethics being part of their daily life, and will buy where they believe their $ is being used according to their personal beliefs. The heir to the Goodman fortune has legal issues. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-goodman-retrial-day-15-20141027-story.html