Show us your Bemis & Call Combination Wrench

[AntiqueBen]

Hello All,

I found this Bemis & Call Combination monkey and pipe wrench. It's in good working condition. I noticed it seems to be an early version by it's markings. According to Alloy Artifacts the monkey/pipe wrench combination patent date is 1893. The last patent date on my wrench appears to be 1885. There is also another date stamped "REIS'D JAN 29 1878." Is this a re-issue date? If so, I can't find any information on this? I am hoping someone might know some further information. Below are some pics of the markings. I appreciate any help.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I only found two references online of the same wrench having a "REIS'D" date. On my wrench you can see after the REIS'D is NOV 20, but then the date is worn off. I found online a description that says "REIS'D NOV 20 1866?? I can't find this date attributed to Bemis & Call anywhere? Also, not sure why my wrench has four dates? Three patent dates & the one REIS'D date. Any ideas??

 

[Private Lugnutz]

If you make DATAMP your first stop instead of Google or AA, or even GJ, when you find old wrenches with patents, you'll be a happy collector.

US Patent: 145,085 - Wrenches

US patent 145,085 Wrenches was issued to W. Chaplin Bemis of Springfield, MA. It was granted on 12/02/1873. Bemis' specifications recognize the A.B. Davis combination pipe and nut wrench (no. {94,085}), but claim this design as an improvement on Amos Call's

www.datamp.org

 

[AntiqueBen]

The 1866 reference that DATAMP makes is to patent no. 57,621 which is August 28 1866. My wrench is November 20 1866. So, did they do a re-issue in November? If so, I can't find any info on that. I saw in a previous thread you have one of these wrenches. I have noticed a distinct difference between mine and every other example I've seen online so far. Every pic I've seen has a pin on the side of the wrench holding the small lower jaw on the pipe wrench side. Mine doesn't have this pin. Instead it has a bolt under the main lower jaw that holds the little jaw in place. Every seen this before??

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The 1866 reference that DATAMP makes is to patent no. 57,621 which is August 28 1866. My wrench is November 20 1866. So, did they do a re-issue in November? If so, I can't find any info on that.

Read the whole entry, including the bit about McLaren.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Boy, I sure did miss it. I see it now. They also showed a pic of one with the screw that holds the small pipe jaw in place. The other pic they showed with the patent dates is marked identical to mine. I can see now that the top patent dates on mine is the August 28 1866. Thanks for steering me straight.
Are first examples of these rare?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks for steering me straight.

You're welcome. Selfishly, it's easier than summarizing.

Are first examples of these rare?

I don't know. Nice find, though!

 

[d42jeep]

I am unable to determine when mine was made since any useful dating clues are missing. Nice wrench though.
-Don

 

[AntiqueBen]

Nice wrench. The handle looks like it's in great shape to. I believe if there are no patent dates that would indicate it was made after their patent ran out/expired around 1900 or so. They don't mak'em like that anymore. That thing will out last all of us

 

[AntiqueBen]

Curious that AA doesn't list very many Bemis & Call Wrench examples. I have a few more big B & C monkey wrenches I'd like to learn about. Not sure where to find more about their line of wrenches?

 

[RTM]

Try here

International Tool Catalog Library : Free Texts : Free Download, Borrow and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[Mintgrun]

I have a few more big B & C monkey wrenches I'd like to learn about. Not sure where to find more about their line of wrenches

There are a few catalogs here

Internet Archive Search: Bemis & Call

 

[four.cycle]

To the OP:
I have a good number of early catalog pages and advertisements for Bemis & Call, but it doesn't appear that I have anything that's going to address your question.
As noted above by Private Lugnutz: when searching for patent information on wrenches, make datamp.org your first stop, not Alloy-Artifacts.org.
Some times you will need to look at other patents issued to the inventor or the manufacturer (as shown at datamp.org) in order to ferret out other information that may or may not relate directly to the item (or patent number) you are searching for.
You will often find at the bottom of the page at datamp.org hyperlinks to other related patents - make a habit of clicking on those links, as they will often offer more information.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Thanks for the tip. I always forget to look at the other links on DATAMP. Found some good info from the links you guys sent. I have an 18" Merrick pattern B&C wrench with a metal handle. It's also stamped L&NRR Co for the Louisville & Nashville Railroad. I wander if the metal handles (instead of wood) were made specific for the railroads??

 

[d42jeep]

I found this Bemis & Call monkey wrench at a tool sale in Gardnerville, NV on Friday. Looks like it’s had a hard life but still functions okay.
-Don

 

[Mike'smeatshop]

Thanks for the tip. I always forget to look at the other links on DATAMP. Found some good info from the links you guys sent. I have an 18" Merrick pattern B&C wrench with a metal handle. It's also stamped L&NRR Co for the Louisville & Nashville Railroad. I wander if the metal handles (instead of wood) were made specific for the railroads??

My neighbor gave me an old B and C monkey wrench and is marked L & N RR and did the metal handles go to the RR?

 

[four.cycle]

^ Interesting question. Picking through Bemis & Call catalog advertisements chronologically, I do not find a steel-handled Bemis & Call adjustable wrench until 1906, when it appears in an issue of "Hardware Dealers Magazine":


1906 Hardware Dealers Magazine Bemis & Call Steel Nut Wrench ad pp 468

"In 1928 Bemis & Call acquired the rights to the wrench designs of the Coes Wrench Company..."

"In 1939 B&C was acquired by Billings & Spencer..."

In a 1935 "Hardware Age" advertisement, Bemis & Call touts a steel-handled wrench, but the illustration shows a Coes' designed unit:


1935 Hardware Age Bemis & Call Connecticut Valley Helwig Trow & Holden Desmond-Stephan ad pp 30

Other than those two, every other advertisement or catalog listing I currently have for Bemis & Call shows the wood handled models.

You might want to check the notes on the applicable patents at datamp.org - Stan's notes may well be able to shed more light on your question.


1867 A.J. Wilkinson & Co. catalog pp 53 Bemis & Call wrench (patent 6002 23751)


1867 A.J. Wilkinson & Co. catalog pp 53 Bemis & Call wrench (patent 23751)

 

[Mike'smeatshop]

^ Interesting question. Picking through Bemis & Call catalog advertisements chronologically, I do not find a steel-handled Bemis & Call adjustable wrench until 1906, when it appears in an issue of "Hardware Dealers Magazine":


1906 Hardware Dealers Magazine Bemis & Call Steel Nut Wrench ad pp 468



In a 1935 "Hardware Age" advertisement, Bemis & Call touts a steel-handled wrench, but the illustration shows a Coes' designed unit:


1935 Hardware Age Bemis & Call Connecticut Valley Helwig Trow & Holden Desmond-Stephan ad pp 30

Other than those two, every other advertisement or catalog listing I currently have for Bemis & Call shows the wood handled models.

You might want to check the notes on the applicable patents at datamp.org - Stan's notes may well be able to shed more light on your question.


1867 A.J. Wilkinson & Co. catalog pp 53 Bemis & Call wrench (patent 6002 23751)


1867 A.J. Wilkinson & Co. catalog pp 53 Bemis & Call wrench (patent 23751)

I tried to follow every lead on this site and I really appreciate yours and others information. Who is Stan? I missed him. And mine is marked 64 and there is notta thing on model 64 . Thanks.

 

[four.cycle]

^ Stan is Stan Schulz, the Steward for all things wrench at datamp.org - You'll find his "flickr.com" pages by clicking the links below the illustrations on some of the patent listings shown there.

I believe he is currently taking something of a sabbatical.

 

[four.cycle]

I should note that I don't make any claim to have every catalog page, or an image of every item any given manufacturer might have made.
I have a lot of material archived, and I have ten times as much I've never had a chance to look at yet, and together that's probably not even one percent of the material that's out there.

 

[Mike'smeatshop]

I found his brother that was sold through Sears and Roebuck. So one RR and One Sears. I am getting their.

 

[crguy]

I just picked up this Bonney masterpiece wrench that at first glance looks like the early Bemis & Call wrenches with some "improvements".

 

[AntiqueBen]

I found 2 Bemis & Call wrenches today. I've been looking for a B&C that is the A.D. Briggs 1859 patent & I finally found one. The other one is a later version with a nut adjustment instead of the sleeve. Below is a pic of the progression from Merrick to turn of the century or so.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Anyone know when B&C switched from the sleeve adjustment to the nut adjustment? And when they started stamping their name on the thread body like this? I haven't gone through the patents yet to try & figure it out.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I found another combination wrench made during the same era as the B&C. I know Bonney & a few companies made these combination wrenches but I've never seen this one. It's stamped "AGR'L Engine Wrench." It has three patent dates on it, 1877, 1881 & 1882. Interesting wrench with a few different features compared to the famous B&C design. I'm on the road, so I'll post better pics this evening. What do you guys think? Anyone else ever seen this combination wrench?

 

[leg17]

I have one with the four patents.

 

[d42jeep]

I found this one at a Gardnerville NV garage sale today. I found another in Gardnerville last year too. Kind of a strange coincidence. This one has the Initials logo.
-Don

 

[Boogerman]

I was doing a google search on the wrench and it let me hear, pretty cool yeah, somebody uh, looks like they tried to block the name that was on it. They looks like they hit it with a punch or something. Very bizarre. Looks like it has a number 91 Yeah, interesting very interesting out the name that was on it, but it's a Bemis.

We've talked about this before. It's a good example of what I will call topic proliferation.

Here's the data on the five (5) B&C threads linked above, in chronological order, so we can see how it unfolded...

Title of Thread | Date Started | Total Posts | Status of OP

1/ "Bemis & Call H&T wrench?" | Aug 18, 2017 | 12 Posts | Last seen on Nov 19, 2021
2/ "Bemis & Call Brand tools?" | Nov 6, 2018 | 17 Posts | Last seen on Nov 12, 2018
3/ "Bemis & Call B.&M.R.R. wrench" | Dec 10, 2020 | 8 Posts | Last seen on Dec 17, 2020
4/ "Bemis & Call Hardware and Tool 6-inch Monkeywrench" | Nov 29, 2021 | 2 Posts | Active Member
5/ "Show us your Bemis & Call Combination Wrench" | Jun 18, 2022 | 25 Posts | Active Member

Without picking on anyone, and without any editorialization, because none is needed, this is what happens when someone posts a thread without looking to see if there is already a thread on the same topic. One could argue that the last three are more specific (customer marking, size, type) than just manufacturer/brand, but that's not typical for the board, and it's not desirable.

That's not just my opinion. The board has an actual built-in feature explicitly intended to suppress and diminish topic proliferation - prompting you with a big "Is this already being discussed?" question and list of all other threads with the same words in the title - before you hit the [Post thread] button.

Go ahead and pretend to start a new thread on Bemis & Call. Type "Bemis" into the title template. It will retrieve and present you with a list of threads containing references to "Bemis", including all the threads you and Don linked, and more.

The A-Z Index in the Sticky has helped suppress topic proliferation. The last thread - not to reward the latest-comer, but it has the most posts, and the OP is an active member - is the B&C thread in the Sticky. But the site does not force members to consult the Sticky before starting a thread, any more than it forces them to pay attention to the "Is this already being discussed?" and list of similar threads prompt, any more than it forces them to simply run a Search on "Bemis" themselves.

Which is why we have yet another thread on the same topic with a string of words I will not call a sentence as a title for fear of turning over Sister Gracia, Sister Britto, Sister Mary-Margaret, Mrs. Turpin, Mr. Geiger, Mr. Yeager, and Mr. Paul West (yes, the novelist) in their graves.

^ We (Lugnutz and I) do not have the ability to "move" a post (or a thread) and doing so would make any thread more confusing - the timeline would be broken up. There really is no practical "work around".

It's really not all that difficult - on ANY website using this type of format - to find the appropriate thread on the subject you're looking for. It's a matter of seconds - simply using the "search" function - which is easily found on any "discussion thread" site. (I just posted an entry a few days ago on "multitool.org" - took me all of about 5 seconds to find the appropriate thread.)

As @Private Lugnutz notes above: there is a prompt that comes up when starting a new thread telling you "there's already a thread on this." Ignoring that is simply laziness or indifference - there are no other "reasons" for it.

Just linking this here, because four.cycle couldn't figure out how to do it.

Trying to attach the picture: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum...-i-dont-know-pretty-sad.540786/#post-10957667

 

[four.cycle]

Just linking this here, because four.cycle couldn't figure out how to do it.

Not sure if you're serious or just trying to be cute, Dave, but I don't "move" other members' posts. No reason to.

 

[Boogerman]

Not sure if you're serious or just trying to be cute, Dave, but I don't "move" other members' posts. No reason to.

Not trying to be cute, just moving the post per our conversation on the other thread where you said you didn't have the ability to move stuff. It's easy, just use the quote. The photos didn't move, so I just cut and pasted them.

This is a way to get all the info in one desired thread, when a new member randomly posts it in another.

 

[larry_g]

Not sure if you're serious or just trying to be cute, Dave, but I don't "move" other members' posts. No reason to.

I think you have missed Boogers meaning. He did not 'move' a post, he copied it so instead of having information in an orphaned thread by the OP, it is also in this thread where it can be also consolidated with other information on the same subject. I have done the same a few times in other subjects.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[crguy]

If there were moderators for each forum and they had the capability to consolidate posts into one thread, it would solve the problem.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is an all metal Beemis & Call monkey wrench I found at an estate sale on Friday. It has the B&C in a circle logo faintly marked on one side. It looks like it’s been used pretty hard.
-Don

 

[Eric Brown]

Here are a couple of Bemis & Call wrenches I nickel plated. 16" and 8 3/4" long. Interesting that the nut holding the handles on are lef-hand threaded.