Show us your cool, "old" drill press

[ooba tooba]

Closest motor I found online was this same model for a 2 spoked handle craftsman DP on vintagemachinery website. It appears to be stamped c39 on that one. It would be a good guess that that meant 1939. Does mine throw that way of dating them back into the wind?

 

[RBarnes]

Clipper lacing is what is used on drive belts, and you can buy it several places including Ebay. You also need the installation tool. The lacing comes in several sizes.

I would recommend you look into Hyflex belt instead of leather.
The leather continues to stretch and you will have to periodically shorten the belt to keep it tight. Hyflex belt is a canvas/rubber impregnated material that is period correct and won't stretch like leather.

I appreciate your letting me know it is called clipper belt lacing.

Tried to research hyflex belt, but could not find any made in USA. Just seems wrong to put foreign made on good old American early vintage drill press.

 

[ooba tooba]

On second look it appears that read C29 not C39 on that pic I posted from vintagemachinery. So does anyone how to date these accurately?

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Nice snag ooba. The spindle cap was worth your gas money.

Can't help you out with dating the motor. I only have one Companion motor. It reads " 1. 39 " in the "M" block.

Dating the machine itself is a bit easier, at least to get you in the ballpark. Catalogs are the only thing we have to go on so it's "close" but better than nothing. The oval switch plate appears up to 41. 42 shows a rectangular switch plate (incidentally, when they changed switch plates they also corrected the oddball "up is off" feature that Frank mentioned).

38 and earlier catalog machines have two horizontal slots in the table. Machines after that have "X" pattern slots. Can't tell which your machine has.

The return spring assembly is an indicator as well. Yours, with the ratcheting pawl, was a huge improvement over the earlier style. Unfortunately, the catalogs never show that side of the machine. I don't have access to an uninterrupted sequence of Craftsman or Atlas operator manuals but the 38 manual shows the old style, the 41 shows the new style. So...39, 40 or 41ish for that change.

Last indicator is the logo badge. In the late 30s-early 40s, Sears was badging their heaviest duty machines as "Master Craftsman". Nothing different about the machines, it was just a marketing ploy like the later "Super Duty", "Craftsman Commercial", and "Sears Best". I only have one 15" Atlas (which is what yours is), that doesn't have the "Master Craftsman" badge, just the regular Long C badge. That one came to me with factory gray paint, which leads me to believe it left the factory after we started stomping Nazis.

I'd put your machine around 39-41 or thereabouts. Have fun with it! They're very simple machines with a classic look. I've rebuilt many of them and always enjoy it. I tore apart a 47 King Seeley 100 tonight and I'm on a learning curve. I'm wearing Franks DP thread out and it's very helpful. Thanks Frank!!

 

[FrankLee]

Recently, I had two 115.5454 motors pass through my shop. Mine were badged Dunlap though, so I think later than the Companion era, but I dunno. I can't add any further insight to the "M" box deciphering, but mine were K 5 1 and L 2 1.

I also had a Companion S-4390 motor that I believe pre-dated the 115 series. It had a code J 4 7.


I've had several Atlas and Atlas-Craftsman machines and always thought the difference in the spring housing designs was a model line feature. It's good to know now that it was an evolutionary change. My learning curve on Atlas is more like a learning roundabout with no exit.

 

[Outlawmws]

Companion predated Dunlap (Then was brought back many years later - at a minimum, a lower grade of wrenches and perhaps limited socket sets. I don't think they were sold individually the way Craftsman were, and I know they had very limited warranties.)

Companion - 33-40
Dunlap 41-60, then tapering sharply off to 63 or 4

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Frank, to my knowledge, that ratcheting pawl return spring assembly only showed up on the 15" machines. I've never seen a smaller Atlas DP with that mechanism on it. I've got several of the older style 15 inchers and one of the pawl style. I'll compare model numbers tomorrow but pretty sure they're the same.

 

[ooba tooba]

Thank you JoCo, Frank and Outlaw! Im curious to see if this motor can be brought back. Unfortunately I have yet to try to open one up. Advice? I very much would like to bring this press back to nice, running condition, and as original as possible. And for the record the table on mine is an X pattern.

 

[ooba tooba]

Here’s some interesting information regarding deciphering old motor plate stamps. I wonder if the “M” on the Companion falls in here somewhere, whether it be torque related or a voltage code?...
https://vfds.com/blog/how-to-read-a-motor-nameplate/

 

[454ragtop]

I suspect the "M" stands for manufactured and that your motor was made in 1940, possibly March 1 or more likely first week of March.

Edit to add, I picked up the little brother to your press yesterday, same style Atlas sourced 12-3/4" drill press. I'll try to get some pics in a day or 2.

 

[ooba tooba]

I suspect the "M" stands for manufactured and that your motor was made in 1940, possibly March 1.

Interesting. That would make more sense out of the pic I grabbed from vintagemachinery showing C 29.

 

[Davefr]

Here's a similar one I picked up a few years ago. I have no idea if the 3450 RPM motor was original, but I substituted a 1750 RPM motor. Mine must be lower end given the crude feed handle and lack of DP mounted power switch. I did eventually find a spindle guard but it wasn't cheap. That pot metal spring return knob was a weak part and had to be replaced.

They also made a third intermediate speed pully that could be mounted on the column but they're very scarce and incredibly expensive.

Please post images of your restoration when you get started. These are really nice machines and a lot heavier then they look.

 

[mikeinri]

I posted this in the camelback thread, but thought maybe you guys might want to see this...

Still available on FB. NOT mine, and I don't have room or time for it, but think it's really cool looking, and hope it can be saved and put into use!

Can't find much online discussion about anyone owning one, so not sure if it's rare.

According to an image from a patent and a copy of an ad on Vintage Machinery, it appears to date to the late 1800s.

Built by SW Putnam & Sons, in Fitchburg, MA. Looks pretty fun.

Mike

 

[ooba tooba]

Here's a similar one I picked up a few years ago. I have no idea if the 3450 RPM motor was original, but I substituted a 1750 RPM motor. Mine must be lower end given the crude feed handle and lack of DP mounted power switch. I did eventually find a spindle guard but it wasn't cheap. That pot metal spring return knob was a weak part and had to be replaced.

They also made a third intermediate speed pully that could be mounted on the column but they're very scarce and incredibly expensive.

Please post images of your restoration when you get started. These are really nice machines and a lot heavier then they look.

Wow that looks really nice!

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I am guessing the Canedy Otto belt driven presses would have been lubricated with a 30 weight non detergent oil, but if anyone has any thoughts on this I would enjoy your insight. Would really like to see what Canedy Otto recommended for oil and what to oil besides the obvious oil holes (were the gears oiled?). Has anyone seen any sort of manual online?

I use way oil for everything but the gears, where I use a 00 cornhead grease, as it is cheap. It does fling out at high gears.

Consensus on oil is that anything is better than nothing. SAE 30 is almost certainly fine, if not exactly what was intended.

Where can I buy leather belts and lacing kits?

I wouldn't buy leather unless you are rich. This stuff works very well and is 1/10th the cost: https://www.mcmaster.com/5753K431/ Search "flat belting" for more options.

Clipper #2 is good for up to 3/16", meaning you will get the least amount of click. I got mine off ebay. You'll want at least 12", your belt will stretch over time. Take the belt off at the end of use period.

Those are what I used on my Royersford Excelsior 21". You can see how those turned out, link in my sig, if you want.

I hope that helps.

 

[RBarnes]

I use way oil for everything but the gears, where I use a 00 cornhead grease, as it is cheap. It does fling out at high gears.

Consensus on oil is that anything is better than nothing. SAE 30 is almost certainly fine, if not exactly what was intended.



I wouldn't buy leather unless you are rich. This stuff works very well and is 1/10th the cost: https://www.mcmaster.com/5753K431/ Search "flat belting" for more options.

Clipper #2 is good for up to 3/16", meaning you will get the least amount of click. I got mine off ebay. You'll want at least 12", your belt will stretch over time. Take the belt off at the end of use period.

Those are what I used on my Royersford Excelsior 21". You can see how those turned out, link in my sig, if you want.

I hope that helps.

THANK YOU for your experienced insight and the links. I would not say I am rich, but I can usually figure out a way to justify just about anything. Having said that, I see what you mean about 1/10th of the price.

My question for anyone that has a camel back...which is BETTER leather belting or the super grip flat belting. Which one works the best - has anyone used both? New leather and NEW super grip flat belting? Hard to compare replacing one old worn out one with new one of either type.

 

[crguy]

THANK YOU for your experienced insight and the links. I would not say I am rich, but I can usually figure out a way to justify just about anything. Having said that, I see what you mean about 1/10th of the price.

My question for anyone that has a camel back...which is BETTER leather belting or the super grip flat belting. Which one works the best - has anyone used both? New leather and NEW super grip flat belting? Hard to compare replacing one old worn out one with new one of either type.

Didn't you notice the flat belt in the McMaster link is made in the US?

As I said, speaking from experience, it's period correct, doesn't stretch like leather will, and has better grip.

And yes, I've owned, and still own, a number of flat belt drive drill presses.

 

[RBarnes]

Didn't you notice the flat belt in the McMaster link is made in the US?

As I said, speaking from experience, it's period correct, doesn't stretch like leather will, and has better grip.

And yes, I've owned, and still own, a number of flat belt drive drill presses.

I certainly like the idea of it being period correct and made in USA.

PS I appreciate everyone's patience with me, I am learning as I go along.

 

[mtgrizzlymn69]

The delta and the rockwell with foot lever are my favorites.


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[ClappedOutBport]

THANK YOU for your experienced insight and the links. I would not say I am rich, but I can usually figure out a way to justify just about anything. Having said that, I see what you mean about 1/10th of the price.

My question for anyone that has a camel back...which is BETTER leather belting or the super grip flat belting. Which one works the best - has anyone used both? New leather and NEW super grip flat belting? Hard to compare replacing one old worn out one with new one of either type.

I can't say which one works better, but I will say that the super grip gives me zero gripes. Very quiet other than the little click of the clipper, tracks perfect, and runs extraordinarily smooth, and looks decently authentic. I suspect a good cut of leather will run just as well. So it's really going to come down to your budget and want for authenticity. Mine is a runner. I took off the original belt guard as it was in my way. I also removed the original switch, as I required a reverse. I love keeping things factory, but sometimes change is good.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Here's a similar one I picked up a few years ago. I have no idea if the 3450 RPM motor was original, but I substituted a 1750 RPM motor. Mine must be lower end given the crude feed handle and lack of DP mounted power switch. I did eventually find a spindle guard but it wasn't cheap. That pot metal spring return knob was a weak part and had to be replaced.

They also made a third intermediate speed pully that could be mounted on the column but they're very scarce and incredibly expensive.

That's a beauty of a machine Dave. I actually like those bench models better than the larger 15 inch ones. The Atlas 15" bench models are, for me, just too damned big for a bench. I wish I could find one of those chrome banded motors in 1725 rpm but every one I run across is 3425.

 

[FrankLee]

So, here's something very different that I saw in a fbmp ad.

​

I messaged the seller back and forth a couple times. He thought it was a wall-mounted drill press/grinder converted to a stand-alone machine. After he cleaned the label off a bit more, he discovered that it read FarmCrafter.

​

Then, with a bit more googlizing, it was discovered that this is a FarmCrafter Tractor-Operated Machine Shop manufactured by Sherman Products Inc. Royal Oak, Michigan. It is powered by the pto on a tractor.

​

457492

 

[Davefr]

So, here's something very different that I saw in a fbmp ad.

​

I messaged the seller back and forth a couple times. He thought it was a wall-mounted drill press/grinder converted to a stand-alone machine. After he cleaned the label off a bit more, he discovered that it read FarmCrafter.

​

Then, with a bit more googlizing, it was discovered that this is a FarmCrafter Tractor-Operated Machine Shop manufactured by Sherman Products Inc. Royal Oak, Michigan. It is powered by the pto on a tractor.

​

457492

Frank that thing is really cool. Is it in your collection yet?

 

[FrankLee]

Frank that thing is really cool. Is it in your collection yet?

No, I'm not going after it.

It's a rare tractor accessory. It would be great if can be simply unbolted, but it's not clear whether it was permanently modified, cut or welded which would prevent it from returning to it's original purpose.

 

[RBarnes]

That Farm Crafter looks pretty interesting, whether it be modified or not. Glad it is not for sale here I would probably have to buy it...

 

[RBarnes]

I can't say which one works better, but I will say that the super grip gives me zero gripes. Very quiet other than the little click of the clipper, tracks perfect, and runs extraordinarily smooth, and looks decently authentic. I suspect a good cut of leather will run just as well. So it's really going to come down to your budget and want for authenticity. Mine is a runner. I took off the original belt guard as it was in my way. I also removed the original switch, as I required a reverse. I love keeping things factory, but sometimes change is good.

I like your common sense approach (even though "common sense" does not seem common anymore). I will probably try the super grip first since it is a lot less expensive.

Since I am spending money like a drunken sailor on this press (having the original motor re-wound etc), I still am not dismissing the leather belt idea. I would like to find someone running leather belts that I could actually go look at and see how they run.

 

[Provincial]

Frank, looking at the photos of the Farm Crafter for sale, it appears that the motor mount and adapter are factory-made. I suspect that Sherman developed this to expand the market for the Ford tractor accessory. The tractor-mounted unit is both awkward to use and involved a lot of work to install/remove from the tractor. It also was purpose-built for the Ford 9N/2N/8N and later Ford tractors, which had a specific PTO design.

Sherman made many items for the Ford tractors, including auxiliary transmissions.

 

[mikeinri]

Wow, that Farm Crafter thing is certainly interesting!

Mike

 

[lafester]

That is cool, thanks for sharing.


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[454ragtop]

A little Companion I picked up at the flea market on Sun. Amazingly complete, surprised to see a vintage Delta motor on it. Lots of surface rust, but everything is freed up and working. I think it was the hardest to remove motor pulley I've ever had. Hoping I can figure out the motor wiring, and the motor is still good. Might use the motor on a little Delta 645 11" drill press I have, can't remember if I ever posted pics of that one.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

That's a cool little machine 454. I'm always thrilled to get one with the spindle cap. I've always been impressed with the data plates on the old Delta stuff.

 

[RBarnes]

Just saw where someone paid $8995 plus shipping for a nicely repainted and restored camel back drill press. If they bring that kind of money, guess that means I was paying myself $2 and hour to work on mine as opposed to 50 cents an hour. Haha

 

[RBarnes]

Studying Clipper belt lacing now. Just got a no 6 clipper belt lacer, but do not have any laces or cat gut to fasten the two sides together. Anyone have some of these they would sell? Thinking I probably need #3 size lacing.

 

[mikeinri]

I'm finding several cool looking, old (as in, late 1800s / early 1900s old) drill presses for sale online. Is there a good market ($$$$) for these if restored, or is it just a hobby?

Just asking, because I can't fit or justify having a bunch of these, but I could see where it would be fun to restore them.

Mike

 

[RBarnes]

I'm finding several cool looking, old (as in, late 1800s / early 1900s old) drill presses for sale online. Is there a good market ($$$$) for these if restored, or is it just a hobby?

Just asking, because I can't fit or justify having a bunch of these, but I could see where it would be fun to restore them.

Mike

I would say restoring old drill presses is mainly a labor of love. They can be pretty involved. If you are missing parts or have damaged ones, it can be quite challenging trying to find, fix or make the right part. I hardly ever see anything in Texas for sale of interest to me so I am envious that you are in an area where they show up. For myself, collecting any old tool or machine, it has to be able to be used in my shop and earn its keep.

 

[mikeinri]

Gotcha, thanks.

Mike

 

[jaycobie]

I just finished cleaning up and repainting this old Black and Decker No. 60 drill press stand, complete with a period-correct B&D 3/4" drill with Jacobs No. 36 chuck. These pieces are circa 1950, with the drill having a date stamp from 1949 on the rotor.
Both bought separately over a period of a couple of months from the scrap yard. Possibly they were a pair before and separated, but they're together now and that's all that matters.

I've seen pictures online of the same drill & drill press stand made in the USA, but mine were both made in England. Even the Jacobs chuck is English made. I guess imports fromthe UK were more common to Iceland in the 50's and 60's so I guess this version makes sense to show up here.

This was a fun restoration.
I'll make one more post below this one for a couple more pictures.

 

[jaycobie]

And a couple more pictures of the stand

 

[mikeinri]

Nicely done, jaycobie! That's much larger than I would have expected.

Mike

 

[Craptain]

jaycobie that looks great. Coming from England originally, I thought that Black and Decker was a British company, Stanley as well for that matter. I was well into my 20's before I found out it was American.

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