Old Radar
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Haven't seen that before. I would guess user mod to correct or overcome wear to the original wood bottom. Looks like a well executed mod, though.
Show us your handplanes
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3baygarage
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Agreed, it is very well done. It’s the old flat head screws too.
RTM
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I suspect if you look down the mouth, it was gaping wide open.
I think somewhere on this page they gave the original height of the sole.
, so you can see how much was lost. I repair mine with a wooden base up under the existing.
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan4.htm
I think somewhere on this page they gave the original height of the sole.
, so you can see how much was lost. I repair mine with a wooden base up under the existing.
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan4.htm
3baygarage
Well-known member
I see. Must be a #30 then. 22" L, 2-3/8" cut. Thanks.
RTM
Well-known member
Just went back through some email notes from when I was working on a #27 and a #36, and something was amiss.
I got values from people ranging from 1-1/2" to 1-3/4" thick.
Here is a #35 I did, finished and ready to work. Scroll left to see other images of the process.
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Tools/Stanley-5-Rebuild/i-V83Pmqf
I got values from people ranging from 1-1/2" to 1-3/4" thick.
Here is a #35 I did, finished and ready to work. Scroll left to see other images of the process.
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Tools/Stanley-5-Rebuild/i-V83Pmqf
tin medic
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RTM
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Expect to see about $25-40, depending on the mouth condition of the 2Union planes. The wooden coffin smoother might get $15. Name should be on the front or rear face, stamped only once. A low angle light can help.
The little metal one looks a bit unique with that adjuster, but it’s got the wrong blade and no lever cap.
The little metal one looks a bit unique with that adjuster, but it’s got the wrong blade and no lever cap.
My Old Tools
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Added a few to the herd today. A clean and complete Stanley 140 skew shoulder block plane, rare Stanley 83 scraper complete, an unnamed bull nose most likely London maker, a nice Auburn screw arm fillister, and a nice and complete Siegley dado, beading, plough plane with a full set of 16 blades.
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RTM
Well-known member
Is this one a steel or brass body? 3rd or 4th I've seen in that shape now. Mine is upthread, in brass.
My Old Tools
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CRSINMICH
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I've been laid up recovering from an operation so there haven't been many opportunities to find (or use) any planes. Luckily for me, my nice family gave me this Lie-Nielsen #212 small scraper plane for my birthday. The sole is 1 3/4" by 5 1/4". The body is manganese bronze, the blade is A2 tool steel, and the knob is cherry. It is based on a Stanley #212 (3rd picture) which hasn't been made since 1934. Incidentally, a Stanley 212 recently sold for $1200 so keep your eyeballs peeled.
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txlonghorn1989
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Nice gift there CRS! Hope your recovery is quick!
CRSINMICH
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tx: Thanks! It was a nice gift and I can't wait to put it to use. Thanks for the well wishes too. Recovery is coming along nicely but I still have some limits on physical activity. It won't be too long before full recovery, it'll just seem like it.
RTM
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Nice gift, someone really like you! One listed here on CL for $1k.
txlonghorn1989
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CRSINMICH
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I was quoting from Jim Bode Tools. He lists three 212's that he sold. One for $775, one for $895, and one in exceptional condition for $1200. If you hurry, you could snag the NOS #212 in original box for $1595. Needless to say, I haven't bought anything from Jim Bode but he always has top notch stuff.
RTM
Well-known member
Still, even at $400, someone likes him. Just going to the trouble to track down a rare plane (rarely seen by the general public, known in WW circles) is a good sign. Not like they strolled into Ace or HD or Menard's to buy that.
I've chatted with the local seller, occasionally he gets hung up on certain tools and the price, others are more reasonable. It's only been up there a year.
We've had a guy flogging a Makita battery saw for over a decade now, no price drop, refreshed every 2-3 days.
CRSINMICH
Well-known member
RTM: I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. The #212 that I was given is a new Lie-Nielsen that is patterned after the Stanley #212. Even at that, it does cost a pretty penny and I'm grateful to my family.
RTM
Well-known member
I was well aware yours was an LN, and that it does cost a pretty penny. I don't think my answers reflected that very well. (Mrs Dodd would be so embarrassed at my current lack of command of the English Language these days.)
Yes, Stanley's 212 get asked $1k (my local one), still there.
Yes, LNs go for less.
Yes, your first pix look like an LN.
Yes, someone must like you to track down any 212 shaped plane, by either LN or Stanley.
Where I am confused is I thought LN discontinued the 212 plane a few years back, so they were commanding bigger $$ on the used market. Guess I am confusing it with the #9.
Yes, Stanley's 212 get asked $1k (my local one), still there.
Yes, LNs go for less.
Yes, your first pix look like an LN.
Yes, someone must like you to track down any 212 shaped plane, by either LN or Stanley.
Where I am confused is I thought LN discontinued the 212 plane a few years back, so they were commanding bigger $$ on the used market. Guess I am confusing it with the #9.
Modern Garage
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Nothing unusual here in this group of planes I've found at various sales in the last couple of weeks, except I was able to get them for 0 -5 dollars each. #3 Stanley, #4&5 size are Dunlap, one a Sargent and the other a Miller's Falls, Stanley 220 and the 110 is labeled Fulton. All were in pretty bad shape except the little hardware store no-name, with severe rusting on bodies and blades. You can still see some pitting on the blades but the business ends are polished and razor sharp and the bodies are ground flat and square, and a coat of paste wax and some shellac shine the steel and wood.
The Fulton is marked "Germany" not West Germany or W. Germany so I know its preWW2 but I don't know if its possible to get a more accurate age on it. There isn't as much info on block planes as bench plane history.
I still have another #4 and #5 size to clean up. One labeled Wards Master and the other too rusty to read. All told eight good old planes for twelve dollars because most people won't even pick up a plane if it doesn't say Stanley...
Joe
The Fulton is marked "Germany" not West Germany or W. Germany so I know its preWW2 but I don't know if its possible to get a more accurate age on it. There isn't as much info on block planes as bench plane history.
I still have another #4 and #5 size to clean up. One labeled Wards Master and the other too rusty to read. All told eight good old planes for twelve dollars because most people won't even pick up a plane if it doesn't say Stanley...
Joe
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CRSINMICH
Well-known member
Modern Garage: I've come to appreciate both Sargent and Millers Falls tools. Both of those companies made planes for CRAFTSMAN. I'm not as familiar with Fulton. You certainly got a good deal on planes that should make good/great users even though your heirs might wish that they were Stanley Sweethearts.
Modern Garage
Well-known member
Hi CRS,
Fulton was a sears tool brand before and concurrent with Craftsman. I posted a picture a week or two ago of some sears 1\4 hp motors and one was a Fulton.
I completely forgot until you mentioned it that the 220 has a sweetheart marked iron in it. That narrows down the age range doesn't it?
Joe
Fulton was a sears tool brand before and concurrent with Craftsman. I posted a picture a week or two ago of some sears 1\4 hp motors and one was a Fulton.
I completely forgot until you mentioned it that the 220 has a sweetheart marked iron in it. That narrows down the age range doesn't it?
Joe
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CRSINMICH
Well-known member
Modern Garage: DUNLAP was also a Sears brand prior to and overlapping CRAFTSMAN for a while. Dunlap did make a homeowners vise that was stout and squat which was enough vise for most of what homeowners use vises for. The DUNLAP planes that I remember looking at were "less than prime" shall we say.
Stanley used the SWEETHEART logo from 1920 until about 1935. The SW inside the heart shape actually stood for Stanley Works. The Heart was supposedly to honor William Hart who was president of Stanley Works from 1884 - 1915. People think that Stanley produced its best products during the SWEETHEART years and that quality and production fell off soon after WWII
CAUTION: Irwin revived the logo a few years ago as a marketing ploy I presume.
Stanley used the SWEETHEART logo from 1920 until about 1935. The SW inside the heart shape actually stood for Stanley Works. The Heart was supposedly to honor William Hart who was president of Stanley Works from 1884 - 1915. People think that Stanley produced its best products during the SWEETHEART years and that quality and production fell off soon after WWII
CAUTION: Irwin revived the logo a few years ago as a marketing ploy I presume.
ez-duzit
Well-known member
Just an OT note to add that there is also a DUNLAP disease, as in "my belly dunlapped over my belt buckle."
Modern Garage
Well-known member
Oops. I lied. I just walked past tbe motors in the shop room and that was a Dunlap, not a Fulton. They probablyy never put Fulton on any power appliance now that I think about it.
I haven't had a chance to use these Dunlap planes yet. They seem similar to the MF but a little lighter weight than tbe vintage Stanley's.
Joe
I haven't had a chance to use these Dunlap planes yet. They seem similar to the MF but a little lighter weight than tbe vintage Stanley's.
Joe
Modern Garage
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CRSINMICH
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Modern Garage: Yep. That's the vise I was talking about.
ez: Your Dunlap joke jarred something in my memory and I actually remembered the first time I heard it and the person who told it. Hadn't thought of that in 60 years. Thanks!
ez: Your Dunlap joke jarred something in my memory and I actually remembered the first time I heard it and the person who told it. Hadn't thought of that in 60 years. Thanks!
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txlonghorn1989
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Made some nice scores at an estate sale today after it got cancelled yesterday due to thunderstorms. Luckily for me I was first in line both days. I picked up one plane. This is the first Stanley No 239 I've ever seen. Looks to have a 1/8" blade. The cutting blade and scoring blade are both Sweetheart logos. Has the fence. I think it's complete but hopefully one of you guys will know for sure. I also was wondering how do you tell a No 239 w/ 1/8" blade from a No 239-1/2? Was the 239-1/2 marked as such?
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I did a write up on the Stanley #239 at the link below. Go to page 58, replies 858 and 859. There’s also a little more info on page 59, reply 871.
Jim C.
http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=9443.msg59439#msg59439
Jim C.
http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=9443.msg59439#msg59439
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Old Radar
Well-known member
Looks like a nice score to me even though The Superior Works kind of disparages it. According to their site, the difference between the 239 and the 239-1/2 was the -1/2 was designed with a fence (and only came in 1/8 width) and was discontinued when Stanley added a fence to the 239. I don't know if there was any marking to differentiate the two.
Even though it's 10 years out of date, I like to reference this value guide by Keith Bradfield just to get a feel for relative worth and rarity.
Old Radar
Well-known member
Excellent explanation!
RTM
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Here is a quick link to page 58
http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=9443.855
I’ve never seen a 238, 239 or 239-1/2 in the wild. Nice score.
http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=9443.855
I’ve never seen a 238, 239 or 239-1/2 in the wild. Nice score.
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txlonghorn1989
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Good information Jim C! So I checked my 239 and it is the 5/32" special dado plane. I thought the cutters both looked a little larger than 1/8". On my Mitutoyo digital calipers I was getting .149 to .151 for the cutter. I didn't measure the spurs but I can tell they're over 1/8" so has to be the 5/32". Very cool! Thanks for the info everyone.
.
If you follow the same link but go to page 34, reply 506, and page 41, replies 603 and 604, I wrote a little about the Stanley #238 weather strip plane. It looks very similar to the #239, but they’re two different planes. I think I demonstrated how the #238 works. While other sites and authors sort of dismiss these little planes, they actually do work as intended provided they’re not broken, missing parts and their cutting irons are very sharp.
Jim C.
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I am about half way through the forum and thought it was time to show my hand planes!
No elaborate beautiful collection like some of you have so kindly shared. I acquired these mostly at one private estate sale this summer (over the course of two trips). I found the estate sale on Facebook Market, they were taking appointments, I was not the first one there, seems many before me. On my first trip to the sale I found the Craftsman, Miller Falls and Great Neck planes. $5 each. About a week later I made a 2nd trip to the same house to pick up a hand saw for a neighbor. To my surprise there was a new plane on the shelf where I found the other planes previously.... a Stanley plane.... and yes, still $5. The lady said she opened a door in the house and there it sat. Amazing it wasn't found for the countless people that walked the sale before me. And they are all Made in the USA!
Here is what I have learned:
Brand _______ Model ______ Manufact _____ Country _ Year
Craftsman ______ BL _________ Sargent _______ USA
Stanley ________ 4 __________ Stanley _______ USA _____ 1933-41 Type16
Great Neck______ UC
Miller Falls ______ 57 ________ Miller Falls _____ USA _____ 1929-64
Defiance ________ na ________ Stanley _______ USA
They are in as found condition now. I definitely plan to clean them up. Overall they are in great condition.
I know the Stanley is the top dog in the list.
I've seen nice things said about Sargent....so is this craftsman considered a good plane? Any idea what year range it falls into? I am not 100% it's BL. But what else could it be?
I know Miller Falls is well respected too and how sweet it came in the box
For the Great Neck plane, the only mark I found is "UC". Anyone know anything else about it?
And how about that Defiance plane with a piece of wood holding the blade tight. No doubt user modified. The sale I got that at was letting you fill a box of any size for $10. It was one item in my box.
No elaborate beautiful collection like some of you have so kindly shared. I acquired these mostly at one private estate sale this summer (over the course of two trips). I found the estate sale on Facebook Market, they were taking appointments, I was not the first one there, seems many before me. On my first trip to the sale I found the Craftsman, Miller Falls and Great Neck planes. $5 each. About a week later I made a 2nd trip to the same house to pick up a hand saw for a neighbor. To my surprise there was a new plane on the shelf where I found the other planes previously.... a Stanley plane.... and yes, still $5. The lady said she opened a door in the house and there it sat. Amazing it wasn't found for the countless people that walked the sale before me. And they are all Made in the USA!
Here is what I have learned:
Brand _______ Model ______ Manufact _____ Country _ Year
Craftsman ______ BL _________ Sargent _______ USA
Stanley ________ 4 __________ Stanley _______ USA _____ 1933-41 Type16
Great Neck______ UC
Miller Falls ______ 57 ________ Miller Falls _____ USA _____ 1929-64
Defiance ________ na ________ Stanley _______ USA
They are in as found condition now. I definitely plan to clean them up. Overall they are in great condition.
I know the Stanley is the top dog in the list.
I've seen nice things said about Sargent....so is this craftsman considered a good plane? Any idea what year range it falls into? I am not 100% it's BL. But what else could it be?
I know Miller Falls is well respected too and how sweet it came in the box
For the Great Neck plane, the only mark I found is "UC". Anyone know anything else about it?
And how about that Defiance plane with a piece of wood holding the blade tight. No doubt user modified. The sale I got that at was letting you fill a box of any size for $10. It was one item in my box.
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RTM
Well-known member
I did a poke about into Craftsman planes made by Sargent and Millers Falls, as I used to have a bunch of peers. Many people say the Craftsman have lighter castings, cheaper hardware, etc. Not true in the ones I looked into.
You can see some details here
Sears Craftsman logo timeline, I need to use IE to get the graphics in each box to load.
https://www.craftsman.com/history
The great Neck is the only questionable quality one there IMO.
You can see some details here
Sears Craftsman logo timeline, I need to use IE to get the graphics in each box to load.
https://www.craftsman.com/history
The great Neck is the only questionable quality one there IMO.
Thanks for those. Would you agree since it has the Pointy "A" it's pre 70s? Pointy "A" roughly swapped over to Flat "A" around 1968 in ratchets/sockets/wrenches.
The first link was the most helpful. I think mine looks like the left most Craftsman in image 4. Mine is skinnier and longer than my Stanley 4. Making it 4ish in size. Wish the poster included some measurements and not just "skinny" or "long".
Brand____Length __ Width ___ Cutter
Craftsman 9 3/4 ___ 2 1/4 ___ 1 11/16
Stanley___9 3/8 ___ 2 3/8 ____ 2
RTM
Well-known member
I am the poster. I can go grab a few of them, the others have been given away. I was not splitting hairs back then, I’m a woodworker, not a machinist Longer and skinnier were close enough, thus Sorta 4 sized. Do the dimensions make it work better?
I would defer to the lever cap logo to date it, not the blade, that is too easy to replace. I put that logo as fairly early, 30-40s
Will poke around in the garage later, after breakfast, see if those were ones I kept.
I would defer to the lever cap logo to date it, not the blade, that is too easy to replace. I put that logo as fairly early, 30-40s
Will poke around in the garage later, after breakfast, see if those were ones I kept.
RTM
Well-known member
OK, took a few more pix, starting here.
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Craftsman-Connection/i-GKGxCBn
There are a few pix prior to the link which show the differences in length between 4's, 3's, and the in between sized one.
Your blade width numbers seem about right, length seemed about right to what what you measured.
The other place to look might be the Sargent plane page here, where I thought it interesting that the 1950 was nickel plated, and the #4 sized had lots of nickel on mine.
http://www.sargent-planes.com/sargent-409-smooth-plane/
The blade logos in mine seem to match yours, but the swoopy logo (on the lever cap) from the craftsman history page seems to seriously pre date that, and the GJ known history of Craftsman with geometric font etc. It would be hard to say my two, both with "not changed by me" irons, bought used in Cal, happen to have both been changed to match yours, bought across the country in NY?
So many questions, so few answers.
One note from Stanley Blood & Gore on length: "All dimensions that follow each number indicate the length of the sole, the width of the cutter, and the weight of the tool. There were some subtle differences in the dimensions, but only those that are significant are mentioned where appropriate. Some of the bench planes are a bit longer/shorter, wider/narrower, heavier/lighter than what's noted for the fact that the planes used many patterns over their decades of production. So, if you have a plane that's one-half inch shorter or longer than what's mentioned here, don't go thinking that you have some ultra-rare version of the tool. You don't (except in the case of the #2). If the plane is inches shorter than what's listed here, you have one that's suffered an amputation along the way"
I thought there was some note about not including the length of the handle bump out, but don't see it. Since this isn't a Stanley, it isn't really material to this discussion anyway.
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Craftsman-Connection/i-GKGxCBn
There are a few pix prior to the link which show the differences in length between 4's, 3's, and the in between sized one.
Your blade width numbers seem about right, length seemed about right to what what you measured.
The other place to look might be the Sargent plane page here, where I thought it interesting that the 1950 was nickel plated, and the #4 sized had lots of nickel on mine.
http://www.sargent-planes.com/sargent-409-smooth-plane/
The blade logos in mine seem to match yours, but the swoopy logo (on the lever cap) from the craftsman history page seems to seriously pre date that, and the GJ known history of Craftsman with geometric font etc. It would be hard to say my two, both with "not changed by me" irons, bought used in Cal, happen to have both been changed to match yours, bought across the country in NY?
So many questions, so few answers.
One note from Stanley Blood & Gore on length: "All dimensions that follow each number indicate the length of the sole, the width of the cutter, and the weight of the tool. There were some subtle differences in the dimensions, but only those that are significant are mentioned where appropriate. Some of the bench planes are a bit longer/shorter, wider/narrower, heavier/lighter than what's noted for the fact that the planes used many patterns over their decades of production. So, if you have a plane that's one-half inch shorter or longer than what's mentioned here, don't go thinking that you have some ultra-rare version of the tool. You don't (except in the case of the #2). If the plane is inches shorter than what's listed here, you have one that's suffered an amputation along the way"
I thought there was some note about not including the length of the handle bump out, but don't see it. Since this isn't a Stanley, it isn't really material to this discussion anyway.
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm
It's good to know the poster! Thank you.
I did include the bump out in my length measurement. Makes sense to me to include it. The bed curves out in the front too. Do you only measure the walls? Good to know the standard though.
Also great to believe my Craftsman is about the same age as my Stanley.