454ragtop
Well-known member
With a VFD there is a very slight fwd-stop-rev delay, nothing to worry about unless tapping blind holes, in which case I wouldn't do it without a tapping head. Just too easy to break a tap in that situation.
Show us your VFD conversions/installations
- Thread starter Techie1961
- Start date
With a VFD there is a very slight fwd-stop-rev delay, nothing to worry about unless tapping blind holes, in which case I wouldn't do it without a tapping head. Just too easy to break a tap in that situation.
GLTHFJ60
Well-known member
10-4, I came to that realization as well when I double-checked the motor data plate. The teco VFDs seem to have good reviews.
Thank you!
mtechgunman
Well-known member
I decided to rip out the control panel on my mill and run a VFD per motor. That's 5 total. Wolf automation sells teco VFD's for about 130-140/piece. I've gone VFD crazy
jeff g
Well-known member
Hi
I have the same lathe a GH1440A all most identical, i am 1/2 way though
VFDing my lathe, but there are some new things i did not think of.
The motor will be a 6 pole, 940 rpm, 2.2 Kw, 50 Hz, the old motor was a 2 speed, 2.2 Kw 700-1400 rpm, 50 Hz. (not got yet )
Would it be possible to get a wiring diagram, i am using a WEG VFD CFW-08 Wash, not the same, but it would give me the right way to go, LOL, when setting up the VFD.
All & any help is greatly appreciated & valued.
Thanks jeff
jallyn
Well-known member
there is wiring diagram / block diagram on the manual page 22 https://inverterdrive.com/file/WEG-CFW-08-Inverter-Manual
Power comes in on R, S, and T if you had 3 phase, or just R and S for single phase (kW rating of drive is de-rated when fed with single phase). Motor output for your 3 phase motor is U, V, and W.
You can adjust speed on the HMI of the drive, or wire up a potentiometer and have quick, infinitely adjustable speed.
I have been using VFDs for industrial applications for years, even designing control panels as an Electrical Engineer. Private Message me if you want more advice.
mtechgunman
Well-known member
Making good progress! Still missing the last VFD. Should be here Monday.
Old panel
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Old panel
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mtechgunman
Well-known member
I plan to build a housing with a couple fans at the bottom to push air into the housing. Excited to get it finished up!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
OP
Techie1961
Well-known member
Wow! What a difference a few years in technology makes. You're doing a nice job on it.
mtechgunman
Well-known member
Wow! What a difference a few years in technology makes. You're doing a nice job on it.
Thank you!
This has been a great project so far. Definitely glad I learned on my lathe (one motor) first. It's nice wiring in all these VFD's knowing it is going to work lol
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Be sure to get filters for the fan(s). You are going to love that setup when you are complete. Nice work so far.
mtechgunman
Well-known member
Be sure to get filters for the fan(s). You are going to love that setup when you are complete. Nice work so far.
Good call! I still need to iron out details on the cover and fan set up. I'll be sure to have a filter
It's crazy, these two VFD conversion projects have me wanting to build stuff just so I can implement a VFD into it. Just a ton of fun and very rewarding.
First let me say ive found this topic very interesting. For a point of reference, im a older fart who loves to tinker and build.
My wifes front load washer bought the farm. Repair man estimates around $500.00 to repair. She never liked the front load anyway so here is my chance to tear it apart for parts. The motor was fine plus other parts. The motor is 3 phase variable speed and reversible. There is a box before the motor labeled "inverter". Up stream from there is a bunch of wiring, of which it pretty much all is plugged into a circut board. I assume the board tells the inverter and motor what to do.
Here is my question. I would like to use the motor, inverter, and some type of controller to power the feed of the head on a sawmill i built. It doesnt take much effort to power the head, and variable feed rate and reversibility would be ideal. Those of you (i mean all of you) who have more knowledge on this could really give me some guidance.
Thank you for any input.
My wifes front load washer bought the farm. Repair man estimates around $500.00 to repair. She never liked the front load anyway so here is my chance to tear it apart for parts. The motor was fine plus other parts. The motor is 3 phase variable speed and reversible. There is a box before the motor labeled "inverter". Up stream from there is a bunch of wiring, of which it pretty much all is plugged into a circut board. I assume the board tells the inverter and motor what to do.
Here is my question. I would like to use the motor, inverter, and some type of controller to power the feed of the head on a sawmill i built. It doesnt take much effort to power the head, and variable feed rate and reversibility would be ideal. Those of you (i mean all of you) who have more knowledge on this could really give me some guidance.
Thank you for any input.
fnieto
Well-known member
Hi Jeff,
I have not been on GJ for a while, sorry for the late reply. I do have the schematic to share with you as well as the VFD programming. I used a different brand (Hitachi) but hop this helps. I'll need your email as I often have issues with file size when posting on forums. I somewhat computer retarded.
PM me with your email then.
So I expect delivery of my VFD today. Looking forward to powering up my Bridgeport.
But have a couple questions.
First off, my BP has the old and very clunky X axis power feed. It is 1/8 HP 3 phase.
My BP is 1 1/2 HP 3 phase. I bought a 2 HP VFD. It seems to me that I have read that VFD's don't like to have motors switched on and off. Will I be able to run the BP motor and the power feed off the same VFD? And be able to switch the power feed on and off as needed? Or will I need a separate VFD for the power feed?
Next, my BP now has a power cord coming off the motor to a junction box where it is wired up with the power feed motor and the power in lines. As it is the BP motor has 10/4 cable going to the switch. The motor tag says that it draws 4.4 amps. So 10/4 seems way excessive for the load. Can I change the cord to something smaller? I'm thinking 14/4 or maybe 12/4 not sure what is available. Same with the cord from the junction box to the VFD.
But have a couple questions.
First off, my BP has the old and very clunky X axis power feed. It is 1/8 HP 3 phase.
My BP is 1 1/2 HP 3 phase. I bought a 2 HP VFD. It seems to me that I have read that VFD's don't like to have motors switched on and off. Will I be able to run the BP motor and the power feed off the same VFD? And be able to switch the power feed on and off as needed? Or will I need a separate VFD for the power feed?
Next, my BP now has a power cord coming off the motor to a junction box where it is wired up with the power feed motor and the power in lines. As it is the BP motor has 10/4 cable going to the switch. The motor tag says that it draws 4.4 amps. So 10/4 seems way excessive for the load. Can I change the cord to something smaller? I'm thinking 14/4 or maybe 12/4 not sure what is available. Same with the cord from the junction box to the VFD.
OP
Techie1961
Well-known member
Hi Guys,
As a note, careful mounting these VFD's inside small non-vented electrical enclosures, there were designed with LARGE finned heatsinks for a reason
Definitely worth mentioning again (see post 53 and 54) as many VFDs die an untimely death for this reason.
OP
Techie1961
Well-known member
I think that you'll need a separate VFD for the feed motor. They're very cheap in the small sizes.
As for the wiring size, just follow code for the size. VFDs are even easier on starting since they ramp up and therefore the peak amps won't be as high.
Thanks for the reply.
Actually the VFD answered my question for me. I did receive it and the terminals would not accept a wire larger than a 14 ga. Which is rated for 15A and still larger than needed, but easily available in 14/4 SOOW.
As it is right now I have the VFD temporarily hooked up. It does run both motors fine. I have them both switched on at the machine before turning on the VFD. So the power feed motor runs all of the time the BP is running. I may change that to a separate VFD. But I would rather change the PF to the newer, lighter weight style in single phase.
I am now running the power to the long time planned sub panel that will supply the VFD. So soon the VFD will be installed in a proper enclosure and finished.
Actually the VFD answered my question for me. I did receive it and the terminals would not accept a wire larger than a 14 ga. Which is rated for 15A and still larger than needed, but easily available in 14/4 SOOW.
As it is right now I have the VFD temporarily hooked up. It does run both motors fine. I have them both switched on at the machine before turning on the VFD. So the power feed motor runs all of the time the BP is running. I may change that to a separate VFD. But I would rather change the PF to the newer, lighter weight style in single phase.
I am now running the power to the long time planned sub panel that will supply the VFD. So soon the VFD will be installed in a proper enclosure and finished.
Trey T
Well-known member
It seems like a lot of people are using Teco VFD ... are they among the best value VFD on the market?
Rockwell 200 volt 3Ø grinder, former school machine.
Do not have 208 volts available, only 240 volts, 1Ø, so the drive solved two issues, 1) No 3 phase power, 2) motor is single voltage 200V, intended for 208V supply.
The combo cast iron & steel pedestal provided the perfect place to mount the VFD, and control transformer for the lighted eye shields which do not believe was ever connected, may rewire it a bit to change the way it is. The display on the drive is the output voltage.
Do not have 208 volts available, only 240 volts, 1Ø, so the drive solved two issues, 1) No 3 phase power, 2) motor is single voltage 200V, intended for 208V supply.
The combo cast iron & steel pedestal provided the perfect place to mount the VFD, and control transformer for the lighted eye shields which do not believe was ever connected, may rewire it a bit to change the way it is. The display on the drive is the output voltage.
I have a Delta 20" planer w/ 7.5hp 3ph motor. I would like to run it off single phase, but after looking around it seems 3hp is about the highest a single IN three OUT VFD goes.
Is there any way to make this work? (5hp would be about the lowest I could opt for)
Is there any way to make this work? (5hp would be about the lowest I could opt for)
454ragtop
Well-known member
VFD's for this app are out there, not common, and usually not cheap. I have a 15 HP Toshiba VFD running a 7.5 HP Monarch lathe on single phase. Works awesome. Found it on Ebay a few years ago, auction listing, tried the snipe move "Do you have a buy it now price?" No response, heart in my throat as I followed it to the end and sniped it for far less than I would have paid BIN.
Thank you for the replies. I thought I scoured Ebay a little better but after looking again it seems there are some generic 10hp /7.5kw units out there.
Any idea if these are decent? http://www.ebay.com/itm/UPDATED-7-5...506692?hash=item3aac945a04:g:3vMAAOSwjVVVr057
-------------------
edit: looks like they use generic call outs on these listings then give the true specs somewhere in the details. Its 380v IN.
Any idea if these are decent? http://www.ebay.com/itm/UPDATED-7-5...506692?hash=item3aac945a04:g:3vMAAOSwjVVVr057
-------------------
edit: looks like they use generic call outs on these listings then give the true specs somewhere in the details. Its 380v IN.
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Look for a 200-230V, 15 HP drive that can have phase loss protection disabled, stay away from 380-460V models to avoid more complexities having to source & connect a transformer to boost 240 volts to 480 volts.
racingtadpole
Well-known member
http://www.danfoss.com/NR/rdonlyres/1FDE93BE-95CF-46F9-B2AE-6F76C69594CB/0/vfdlesson4.pdf
A bit of reading that explains some of the application principles
A bit of reading that explains some of the application principles
racingtadpole
Well-known member
'Danfoss VFD 101' into the search engine of your choice
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Here is a VFD installation for a conveyor system to give an idea of how VFD's are installed in an industrial setting. Each VFD has it's own Motor Circuit Protector supplying power to the drive and a load reactor after the drive (even though they are mounted above the VFD) due to the long distance from the VFD to the motor.
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OP
Techie1961
Well-known member
Sorry, I just saw this post. It was in a machine that was made in Italy and was at the end of its life. Omron was selling them under their name for a while. Not sure if it was in Europe only.
Anybody use a remote Hz meter with a Teco FM50? I see that there was an option for a remote panel with one but it has been discontinued.
http://www.factorymation.com/Products/FM50_Accessories/JNEP-16.html
Little pricey too. Seems like it could be done much cheaper.
http://www.factorymation.com/Products/FM50_Accessories/JNEP-16.html
Little pricey too. Seems like it could be done much cheaper.
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
That product is specific to that drive family. Although you can wire a remote potentiometer for speed control, that drive does not appear to support remote speed display unless you use the accessory you describe. Some drives allow remote mounting of their face plates and some offer accessory HIM's (Human Interface Module) to remote mount similar to this offering from TECO.
seber
Well-known member
As an engineer I loved using the Mitsubishi VFDs. Easy to use, reliable, and plenty of options. So that is what I used at home. It worked well there too. When I needed a bigger unit I went with Teco to save some money. Radio interference was so great that neighbors 1/4 mile away were complaining. (I lived on a ranch until I retired.) I added a filter but never really solved the problem. That was three years ago and it may be different now, but just a heads up.
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Let's be clear that for the purposes of this discussion - the likely use of VFD's by home shop or even small commercial installations - this is over reaction to the effects on the power grid or the users home power. Drive sizes and drive quality have a bearing on this. Most home and small shop folks are not affecting the power grid via reflected harmonics. The problem you are tilting at is in industrial facilities with large drives or multiple drives and it's much less common than it used to be. The folks that tout the need for such filters on small drives are the folks that build said filters, most other knowledgeable folks don't worry about this until engineering analysis says otherwise.
Not disputing that it's an issue, it's just a small issue with the size and quantities of drives being discussed here.
mrjaw14
Well-known member
Actually read the post right above mine. It's actually the reason I posted what I did. I won't disagree that my post is geared toward larger installations, however given the issue posted directly above my comment I'm just contributing to the education. large scale examples can be useful in small scale. If you don't care about the techy stuff, that's fine. I'm just passing information along.
racingtadpole
Well-known member
Some reading material on the subject for those that are interested..
http://www.emersonindustrial.com/en...rochures/CTA/HVACR/WHP_HarmonicMitigation.pdf
http://www.emersonindustrial.com/en...rochures/CTA/HVACR/WHP_HarmonicMitigation.pdf
Is anyone using 4 or more vfd's in their shop?
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I read the post above yours before I responded. As for the techy stuff, I do care and that's why I wrote the response I did.
The TECO drive appears to have been emitting EMI - either radiated or conducted - not harmonics back to the power grid. Two completely different things. EMI is usually a result of poor VFD design. Most modern drives have no problem with this, older ones did.
Do a little research on VFD EMI vs harmonics and you will see the point I'm making. I stand by my post that most home and small home shops using modern small (10 HP or less) VFD's don't create reflected harmonics at a level to cause any concern. Take a look at racing tadpoles link for further explanation.
In this case it's not a matter of scaling down the large scale example, it is a matter of understanding the application and applying the technology as designed. We build and install VFD panels from 1hp to 1200hp - each one is different.