Show us your VFD conversions/installations

[mrjaw14]

I'll just delete my post. I didn't say every issue was caused by harmonics. I get it. I was just posing general info that I found interesting. But because you won't give it a rest this thread is getting messy. So I'll delete the post and we all can move on.

 

[mtechgunman]

Is anyone using 4 or more vfd's in their shop?

I've got 5 on one machine.


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[454ragtop]

Is anyone using 4 or more vfd's in their shop?

Currently have 3 drill presses, a 20" disc sander, a 30" bandsaw, and 2 lathes, a 12 X 36 Jet and a 16 x 54 Monarch, all with VFDs. Used to have a Van Norman #12 mill with a VFD, sold it, current newer Van Norman 1RQ-28 has 3 motors, still kicking the VFD idea's around for that one.

 

[Davefr]

Guys,
I've got a couple newbie (ie stupid) questions about VFD's. I'm restoring a 17" Delta DP that came with a 3 phase 230V 1.5HP motor with a nameplate current spec of 5.8 amps.

Is it possible to run this motor from a 120 VAC 1 phase household power source + VFD?

I don't need the motor's full 1.5 HP output which is overkill for me. Will a 120VAC VFD even run the motor if it can't supply the motor's full rated 5.8 amps spec.?

I'd really like variable speed vs. belt changes.

Plan B is to swap over to a std. 120VAC 1 ph motor but just curious if VFD is an option at 120VAC.

TIA

 

[930dreamer]

http://www.driveswarehouse.com/default.aspx

^^ not showing a 1.5 hp for 120 v 1phase, several for 240v 1phase.

 

[Davefr]

Here's some images of a 1946 Delta 17" DP I just got done restoring. It came with a 1.5 HP 3 phase motor. I couldn't decide whether to swap it with a 1 HP 1 phase motor or possibly a 3/4HP commercial servo sewing machine motor with variable speed. I ultimately decided to power the original motor with a Teco L510 VFD.

I decided to take a chance and used a 1HP 4.3 amp VFD even though the motor is 1.5HP at 5.8 amps FLA. (I could have gone with a 1.5 HP VFD but prices jump from around $150 to around $300+!!)

I also decided to overclock the motor to 1.5X max. (ie 1725 to 2587 RPM).

I'm not sure I understand all the theory, but the motor runs well under 4.3 amps from about 800 RPM up to 2587 RPM. Below about 800 RPM amps exceeds 4.3 amps by around 10%. So far the VFD has not complained.

It surprises me that amps is inversely proportional to motor speed???? I also noticed that when I apply load to the spindle at the lower speeds amps actually goes down slightly??? (power factor related???)

So far everything runs great. I've set the pulley system to give me an effective speed range at the spindle from 275 RPM up to 2175 RPM with the turn of a dial. (I programmed the VFD to indicate spindle speed vs frequency or motor RPM.)

I added remote control for start/stop and speed control at the front of the DP. I also added a main power switch since the VFD lacks an on/off switch.

 

[S4cruiser]

VFD newbie questions...

I've got a 3 phase Baldor grinder/belt sander that I'm planning to run in my home garage...knowing I need a VFD.

The grinder is a 1.5 hp but with 4.2 FLAs. I spoke to the folks at FactoryMation and they recommended this guy --> http://www.factorymation.com/Products/FM50_230V/FM50-201-OC.html

My question is around switches. Assuming that I want to be able to run the grinder/belt sander in FWD/REV and control the speed, then I'll need to purchase a compatible 4 function switch (ON, OFF, FWD/REV, and GAIN) or can this be controlled by the VFD? Machine current has just an on/off switch.

I 'think' i need the additional switch but I don't want to assume anything!

 

[WhoWhatNow]

VFD newbie questions...



I've got a 3 phase Baldor grinder/belt sander that I'm planning to run in my home garage...knowing I need a VFD.



The grinder is a 1.5 hp but with 4.2 FLAs. I spoke to the folks at FactoryMation and they recommended this guy --> http://www.factorymation.com/Products/FM50_230V/FM50-201-OC.html



My question is around switches. Assuming that I want to be able to run the grinder/belt sander in FWD/REV and control the speed, then I'll need to purchase a compatible 4 function switch (ON, OFF, FWD/REV, and GAIN) or can this be controlled by the VFD? Machine current has just an on/off switch.



I 'think' i need the additional switch but I don't want to assume anything!

You should just need a simple dpdt switch for direction and a pot for speed control. That is how my FM50 is wired. Nothing fancy.

 

[454ragtop]

VFD newbie questions...

I've got a 3 phase Baldor grinder/belt sander that I'm planning to run in my home garage...knowing I need a VFD.

The grinder is a 1.5 hp but with 4.2 FLAs. I spoke to the folks at FactoryMation and they recommended this guy --> http://www.factorymation.com/Products/FM50_230V/FM50-201-OC.html

My question is around switches. Assuming that I want to be able to run the grinder/belt sander in FWD/REV and control the speed, then I'll need to purchase a compatible 4 function switch (ON, OFF, FWD/REV, and GAIN) or can this be controlled by the VFD? Machine current has just an on/off switch.

I 'think' i need the additional switch but I don't want to assume anything!

On a drill press I usually use 3 switches, all low voltage control type. I like to use a pull on, push off switch to control start/stop, a speed pot, and a toggle or lever to control fwd/rev. I skip the fwd/rev on bandsaws, and I'd think you'd do the same with a belt sander. Do you really want to use it with the belt moving away from the table or stop?

 

[S4cruiser]

Good points!

On the reverse...I was only considering it for the grinder side of the machine when sharpening TIG tungsten (safer if the wheel is spinning away from you).

Might just be simpler with a 3 switch.

 

[manwithtools]

Be careful turning a grinder in reverse. The nut that retains the grinding stone can loosen, especially if the startup in reverse is fast.

 

[Davefr]

VFD newbie questions...

I've got a 3 phase Baldor grinder/belt sander that I'm planning to run in my home garage...knowing I need a VFD.

The grinder is a 1.5 hp but with 4.2 FLAs. I spoke to the folks at FactoryMation and they recommended this guy --> http://www.factorymation.com/Products/FM50_230V/FM50-201-OC.html

My question is around switches. Assuming that I want to be able to run the grinder/belt sander in FWD/REV and control the speed, then I'll need to purchase a compatible 4 function switch (ON, OFF, FWD/REV, and GAIN) or can this be controlled by the VFD? Machine current has just an on/off switch.

I 'think' i need the additional switch but I don't want to assume anything!

Why the FM50?? It's obsolete and has been replaced by L510.

Do you prefer a separate control panel or would you prefer to do everything from the VFD?

L510 has a pot that makes speed changes fast/easy and you can also do FWD/REV pretty easily.

Or just add a small control panel with a speed control and 2 switches. The manual has everything you need to do this. Post #206 shows my remote control. (adding another switch for FWD/REV would be simple.)

 

[pstemari]

Here's my conversion of a Sunmaster ERL-1340 lathe from Precision Matthews.

Before pictures:

Small front panel:

Main box with four contactors: one for forward, one for reverse, one for the coolant pump, and one used as a safety interlock:

The main forward/reverse control is on the carriage, and there is a safety interlock on the end cover and another hooked into the foot brake.

 

[pstemari]

The goal is to maintain the safety features, use the existing controls, and provide variable speed and slow forward/reverse jog instead of the full speed jog in the base config.

Gutting the controls:

 

[pstemari]

Added a new box to give enough room for the VFD and to allow for a meter and some additional controls. Duplicates are wired in parallel.

 

[pstemari]

Added terminal blocks and a control relay for the safety interlocks:

 

[pstemari]

Each wire is labeled with printed heat shrink tubing at each end and a ferrule or terminal lug crimped on. Everything can be traced back to the updated schematic.

 

[pstemari]

Front panel was rewired, since everything now has to go back to the main control panel, and the new switches were installed in the upper cabinet. I also added a power disconnect to the main panel.

I ran the labels off on a Epilog laser cutter at work with laminated plastic sign stock. Switches are Omron from Digikey, except for the disconnect and the speed pot, which came from C3 Controls.

 

[pstemari]

Then came all the VFD control wiring:

 

[pstemari]

With that done, the interconnects to the existing controls and to the new switches were added:

 

[pstemari]

And finished!

 

[nine4gmc]

Quick question here guys, I just picked up a 20" Rockwell bandsaw with a 1.5hp 3ph motor and want to put a VFD on it. I would like to have one that I can add a potentiometer to so I can mount the vfd on the back in a protective enclosure and still be able to adjust the speed up front. I would also like to be able to power it on/off from the front of the machine as well, either by using the original saw switch or add a switch for the vfd if needed. I'm on a tight budget too, so champagne on beer money here...

Thanks!

 

[454ragtop]

Nine, those are real basic features available on pretty much any VFD. 1 HP is right at the limit for 115 volt input, does 115 or 230 volt matter?

 

[nine4gmc]

Sorry, I should have mentioned that, I'll need a 230v single phase in and 208-220v? three phase out. Here is a poor shot of my motor plate and breaker? box that's on the machine. I've swapped motors from 3ph to single phase on other machines but never dealt with 3ph power or vfd's so forgive my ignorance. The reason I don't want to swap motors here is because this one has a chip blower pump attached and it's all original so I figured a vfd is the way to go.

 

[WhoWhatNow]

Quick question here guys, I just picked up a 20" Rockwell bandsaw with a 1.5hp 3ph motor and want to put a VFD on it. I would like to have one that I can add a potentiometer to so I can mount the vfd on the back in a protective enclosure and still be able to adjust the speed up front. I would also like to be able to power it on/off from the front of the machine as well, either by using the original saw switch or add a switch for the vfd if needed. I'm on a tight budget too, so champagne on beer money here...

Thanks!

There is a new model line available, but this one has been a standard for years:

http://dealerselectric.com/FM50-202-C.asp

You can add a pot, direction/on/off switch remotely *** well.

 

[racingtadpole]

If you have a blower attached and you vary the frequency the blower will react accordingly, the results may be undesirable.

 

[Davefr]

There is a new model line available, but this one has been a standard for years:

http://dealerselectric.com/FM50-202-C.asp

You can add a pot, direction/on/off switch remotely *** well.

Nine,
FYI, this is the current Teco model that replaced FM50:

https://www.wolfautomation.com/products/ac-drives/ac-drive-2hp-230v-single-phase

Adding a remote control is real simple. It just requires 3 wires to a 5K pot and 2 to a switch. There are a few parameters that need programmed but this is also pretty easy to do.

Example of my remote on a DP:

You need to be a little careful at the low end of the frequency range. If the motor runs significantly slower then nameplate for an extended period of time it may overheat. Motor fans are designed to cool the motor at nameplate RPM. Just monitor the motor's temp if you're way below 60 Hz. and possibly add a cooling fan.

You likely won't get metal cutting speeds from a woodworking style bandsaw with a VFD. I've already researched that idea.

Good luck. Let us know if you have any further questions.

 

[Nelson58]

If you have a mill with two motors, one spindle, one feed, do you put one VFD on each?

 

[RonRock]

My Bridgeport has a 1 1/2 HP spindle and a smaller table feed motor (1/6 HP maybe not sure) They both run fine off my Teco FM50 2HP VFD.

 

[Nelson58]

My Bridgeport has a 1 1/2 HP spindle and a smaller table feed motor (1/6 HP maybe not sure) They both run fine off my Teco FM50 2HP VFD.

Question Ron,

By doing it that way, you can't separately control them. So the feed runs when the spindle does. I'd like to control each individually, and even only have the feed table move when the spindle is running taking a cut.

 

[manwithtools]

Not exactly, if you feed the both with one VFD, you can control them independently with their original controls. The VFD simply converts single phase o three phase in this instance. They will both run at the same relative speed (Hz). But one does not need to run when the other does, you are simply supplying three phase power to all motors at the same frequency. Your choice of when they will run.

OTH, Best solution is one VFD per axis.

 

[nine4gmc]

Nine,
FYI, this is the current Teco model that replaced FM50:

https://www.wolfautomation.com/products/ac-drives/ac-drive-2hp-230v-single-phase

Adding a remote control is real simple. It just requires 3 wires to a 5K pot and 2 to a switch. There are a few parameters that need programmed but this is also pretty easy to do.

Example of my remote on a DP:

You need to be a little careful at the low end of the frequency range. If the motor runs significantly slower then nameplate for an extended period of time it may overheat. Motor fans are designed to cool the motor at nameplate RPM. Just monitor the motor's temp if you're way below 60 Hz. and possibly add a cooling fan.

You likely won't get metal cutting speeds from a woodworking style bandsaw with a VFD. I've already researched that idea.

Good luck. Let us know if you have any further questions.

I found that out earlier this year when I picked up a wood only model. My new one is wood/metal but it's 3ph so I will be able to get the speeds on it and use the vfd for a phase adapter.

Thanks for the links guys, I cheaped out and went with the $102 vfd on ebay, it's got a 2yr warranty so if it lasts that long I figure I got my money's worth. I used the difference to buy tires and a table insert so I can actually get some use out of this thing.

 

[cnc-me]

VFD's are great, got a whole bunch of them around the shop, everything from late 80's
Eaton Dynamatics to Allen Bradley 160's . Even have some pre Vfd devices like Eaton eddy
current clutch motors, which are just awesome especially on Lathes.
The clutch motors sure do kick out the heat though, good in the Winter but not so much in the Summer.

 

[cnc-me]

I've got 5 on one machine.


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Most we have is 2 on one Machine, but have them all over the shop.
Have 3 phase power so they are used for speed changes only.

 

[cnc-me]

Exactly, resistance braking. The Teco FM50 series does have internal braking, but I’ve found that it’s not up to the task of rapid deceleration. The resistor works fantastically well, and completely eliminates the nuisance over current trips. For your belt sander application, you likely wouldn’t need to brake at all. However, I think that the internal braking circuit would be able to easily handle a 2-5 second, should you decide to enable that feature.

At my previous employer, we had taken a 20,000 piece job for valve spring retainers. The Haas lathe was not equipped to handle the rapid start/stops for 10 hours per day and shut itself down. We ended up buying 3 oven burner elements and wired them up to absorb the braking energy. If memory serves me right, it had a 20 HP motor, so they got quite hot.

I will get some shots of the drill press setup this weekend. I never really documented it during the process.

I did the same thing, used 2 Chromalox 1000 Watt water heater elements in series to stop a 12hp 18000 rpm router spindle, with a Hitachi SJ 300 15hp drive,working great now for over 10 years.......

 

[cnc-me]

I see a bunch of drives on here, that are not mounted in enclosures.
I'm guilty of it too. Only have one that I can think of though.

 

[J king]

Here is my mill vfd control.. modified the original switch to switch the ac drive then added the pot switch right into the box. I need to make a new face plate someday to fill in the gap.
Vid shows it operate just like a factory switch plus the drive speed change is handy there.

 

[RonRock]

I'm trying to get my FM50 mounted in an enclosure and wired properly at last. Until now I had cords with plugs attached. Not the best I know, but it worked for me to try it out and be sure it was the direction I want to go.

So a couple questions.

What input amperage do I need to supply my FM50-202? It is a 2HP VFD. The manual mentions the voltage needed, but not amperage. So do I need to figure on the motor amperage? My mill has a 1HP 3 phase, 3.3 Amp or 4.3 amp (tag says 60Hz for both amp ratings. pretty sure that one should be the 50Hz rating)

The FM50 has a label with input rating,

INPUT :AC 1 or 3PH 200-240V 50/60Hz 19/11A


So am I correct that an 11A circuit would theoretically be enough on my 240V 60Hz shop power? Of course that can't be done.

My plan is to power the FM50 from a dedicated 20A circuit. 12 Gauge is as big as I can fit in the FM50 terminal screws. Is there a better way to connect 12 Gauge to a terminal screw?

I could run 14 and go with a 15A circuit. That would make the wiring easier to do, but seems like it would be pushing a 15A circuit.

 

[laser3kw]

We ended up buying 3 oven burner elements and wired them up to absorb the braking energy. If memory serves me right, it had a 20 HP motor, so they got quite hot.

On our Yaskawa 20hp drives we use a 40 ohm, 2000 watt resistor. They will get hot while in use. We had a service call from one customer, seems they had a fire. Our service guy found that the operator had been cooking his meal on the resistor. The wrapper caught fire and melted some plastic into the resistor causing the fire. They wanted it covered under warranty....

 

[Greg9504]

The FM50 has a label with input rating,

INPUT :AC 1 or 3PH 200-240V 50/60Hz 19/11A


So am I correct that an 11A circuit would theoretically be enough on my 240V 60Hz shop power? Of course that can't be done.

I haven't looked at the user manual for the FM50, but if the tag says:
INPUT :AC 1 or 3PH 200-240V 50/60Hz 19/11A

It means when using single phase input the amp draw is 19A. If using 3 phase it is 11A.

Most user manuals for VFD's that I've read usually have a chart that has the fuse size for each model.

Do you have 3 phase power? If not then you'll need to go with the single phase (19A) requirement.