Show your "Long C" Craftsman!

[d42jeep]

Here is my sharpening stone.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here are the "pre heritage" logo images

also have a boxed Sharpening stone with a similar Artwork

I am aware of the same logos, Outlaw, but you'll note that the logo on our sharpening stone boxes (Don's is also the same), or my axe, is not one of them. It doesn't show up in any of the various generic attempts to timeline Craftsman logos on the web, hence my post and question. Where does it fit? I am asking for opinions on my progression theory, but also thoughts on the boxes themselves, which, again, don't seem that old.

 

[ed4banger]

I am aware of the same logos, Outlaw, but you'll note that the logo on our sharpening stone boxes (Don's is also the same), or my axe, is not one of them. It doesn't show up in any of the various generic attempts to timeline Craftsman logos on the web, hence my post and question. Where does it fit? I am asking for opinions on my progression theory, but also thoughts on the boxes themselves, which, again, don't seem that old.

This from the 1935 Craftsman catalog, same logo....

This was underline C era, thinking wording under "CRAFTSMAN" just mimicked/replaced the underline......????

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Here's a couple of block letters, tabs w/stars examples. I'd say early to mid 30s on that logo. The vanadium wrench box could be as late as early 40s. The double line oval on the ax....no clue. Possibly concurrent with another logo (possibly the one pictured here).

I do think (purely conjecture) that this oval/block/star logo was around longer than we'd generally suspect it was, particularly on ancillary items such as sharpening stones. There's a ton of those stones on the second hand market with that logo. I think a bunch of them were made and sold till they ran out. I do have a Heritage logo stone so they did update at some point.

I've got a 64-ish drill press with original belts, all marked with the Long C logo. Some of these logos died hard.

 

[Outlawmws]

From the 1936 power tools catalog, (wood tuning tools) - -it's a terrible illustration, but It is the logo and thr 6440 number matches my box:

 

[JoCoSawdust]

I just saw a question pertaining to logos on another site, got me to thinking.

I came to the conclusion a while ago that we tend to overthink these logos, particularly the pre-war ones. With many different manufacturers contributing to the Sears stable, it's natural for there to be some differences in the logos. Remember, everyone wasn't as hungry for litigation back then. I tend to believe there was a Sears-dictated design and final products were "close enough" and could vary a bit from OEM to OEM. I believe that would explain the logo on Lugz's ax, I've never seen that exact logo before. To think that it represents a specific era, completely separate from all other logos, just doesn't make sense.

The same goes for paint. Pre-war Walker Turner blue isn't the same as pre-war Atlas blue which isn't the same as pre-war Packard blue. Apparently they were all close enough for Sears.

My guess on the general sequence of pre-war logos would be: Wavy banner, block letters in an oval, Long C in an oval.

As with all things Craftsman, particularly pre-war Craftsman, that's just an educated guess.

 

[Arne73]

I just saw a question pertaining to logos on another site, got me to thinking.

I came to the conclusion a while ago that we tend to overthink these logos, particularly the pre-war ones. With many different manufacturers contributing to the Sears stable, it's natural for there to be some differences in the logos. Remember, everyone wasn't as hungry for litigation back then. I tend to believe there was a Sears-dictated design and final products were "close enough" and could vary a bit from OEM to OEM. I believe that would explain the logo on Lugz's ax, I've never seen that exact logo before. To think that it represents a specific era, completely separate from all other logos, just doesn't make sense.

The same goes for paint. Pre-war Walker Turner blue isn't the same as pre-war Atlas blue which isn't the same as pre-war Packard blue. Apparently they were all close enough for Sears.

My guess on the general sequence of pre-war logos would be: Wavy banner, block letters in an oval, Long C in an oval.

As with all things Craftsman, particularly pre-war Craftsman, that's just an educated guess.

I was thinking along those same lines but can't type and eat lunch at the same time..

 

[Outlawmws]

Well its always been for sure and for certain there is no specific cutoff between major logo types. Long C overlapped Heritage, and Heritage overlapped Crown, etc. - -I'd expect and had assumed that the early logos had a LOT of variations as Sears marketing determined direction.

The catalogs themselves are somewhat iffy for accurate depiction, and the occasional Sales slip only really proves when in was sold, not how long it sat on a shelf...

 

[Private Lugnutz]

This from the 1935 Craftsman catalog, same logo....

Thank you, Ed. That very much confirms my progression thinking!

Here's a couple of block letters, tabs w/stars examples. I'd say early to mid 30s on that logo

Doh! I forgot that same logo appears on some early socket sets! So I was definitely in the right ballpark. Whoever made their cardboard boxes was so good they had me doubting myself!

From the 1936 power tools catalog, (wood tuning tools)

Between "1935", "mid 30's" and "1936" I think we have a quorum!

Thanks guys.

 

[Username already in use]

I’ve got a similar box, but it came out of a heritage logo machinist box that was full of -V- marked sockets and drive tools.

maybe their supplier just kept using the same art?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

maybe their supplier just kept using the same art?

Always gotta be the money wrench don'tcha!

 

[JoCoSawdust]

I agree with Unaiu. I think that logo, while starting in the 30s, was around for a long, long time.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Of course now I am tending to agree because it helps explain the incongruity I was getting out of the boxes.

 

[Outlawmws]

Anyone that keeps a stone in its original box, cares for their tools and those could be passed from box to box during a long carrier.

We found 2 catalog jests and two different base stock/catalog numbers - what numbers do we have on the end of the boxes besides 6440? (36) on mine? Anyone have a 5295? (35)

Also nesd to look in latter catalogs for more stone ads... (42 hand tools got me nothing unless I missed it...)

 

[Cruzan80]

I’ve got a similar box, but it came out of a heritage logo machinist box that was full of -V- marked sockets and drive tools.

maybe their supplier just kept using the same art?

I am hesitant to take this data point into account, simply because the logo of the box and the sockets don't match. The -V- is established 70's and the heritage logo was phased out of boxes starting about 1960. So right there you have someone who kept a box and added to it, and the stone could easily have been purchased before and added when the box was purchased (heritage logo started 48-49). Not saying the two could not have been purchased together, but the obvious mish-mash of other tools means it isn't a reliable point.

 

[ed4banger]

Some recent Long C finds. Love it when the boxes are in descent shape.....View attachment 1544086View attachment 1544547View attachment 1544088View attachment 1544097

 

[Smokeshow69]

Some recent Long C finds. Love it when the boxes are in descent shape.....View attachment 1544086View attachment 1544087View attachment 1544088View attachment 1544097

Ed all of those are amazing finds! You found not one but 2 wrench boxes? Very well done

 

[ed4banger]

Ed all of those are amazing finds! You found not one but 2 wrench boxes? Very well done

Yeah, not really a wrench collector, but these sets are really hard to overlook......I do have another of these in a non crackle box...

 

[Username already in use]

I am hesitant to take this data point into account, simply because the logo of the box and the sockets don't match. The -V- is established 70's and the heritage logo was phased out of boxes starting about 1960. So right there you have someone who kept a box and added to it, and the stone could easily have been purchased before and added when the box was purchased (heritage logo started 48-49). Not saying the two could not have been purchased together, but the obvious mish-mash of other tools means it isn't a reliable point.

Oh I agree with you here. I was simply stating what I saw when I purchased the Heritage machinist chest and the oil stone.

Check out the oil stone image on the bottom of page 38 in the 1960 dated catalog posted HERE.

Looks like they were using the same oil stone box/image into the Crowntop era.
@Private Lugnutz
@JoCoSawdust
@Outlawmws

 

[Smokeshow69]

Yeah, not really a wrench collector, but these sets are really hard to overlook......I do have another of these in a non crackle box...View attachment 1544140

Ed, does the first wrench box pictured have an uncommon logo on the top of it?

 

[d42jeep]

Here is my cool long C find at a Berkeley estate sale this morning.
-Don

 

[ed4banger]

Ed, does the first wrench box pictured have an uncommon logo on the top of it?

No, that's the only decal/logo on that box.

 

[Smokeshow69]

No, that's the only decal/logo on that box.View attachment 1544543

Interesting, I swore you bought that really nice one recently that had that uncommon sticker similar to this one

 

[ed4banger]

Interesting, I swore you bought that really nice one recently that had that uncommon sticker similar to this one

Are you stalking me? Really. Ebay disguises bidders and feedback changes often for some...Why do feel a need to know what I buy on ebay?...You say "similar to this one", so you know of others, so its not so uncommon?

 

[Smokeshow69]

Are you stalking me? Really. Ebay disguises bidders and feedback changes often for some...Why do feel a need to know what I buy on ebay?...You say "similar to this one", so you know of others, so its not so uncommon?

I was just curious with no ulterior motive. You posted some really nice boxes and I was thinking others may have wanted to see that sticker. My friend showed me that picture and said it was similar to a very nice one that sold recently. I now understand I was confused. My apologies if you thought I was in any way being weird or trying to get you admit bought something. I will not comment on your posts in the future so you don’t feel uncomfortable. My friend Brian Riley from the craftsman fb page can vouch that I am a real tool collector, not a stalker. Again my apologies!

 

[Smokeshow69]

I was just curious with no ulterior motive. You posted some really nice boxes and I was thinking others may have wanted to see that sticker. I now understand I was confused. My friend showed me that picture and said it was similar to a very nice one that sold recently. My apologies if you thought I was in any way being weird or trying to get you admit bought something. I will not comment on your posts in the future so you don’t feel uncomfortable. My friend Brian Riley from the craftsman fb page can vouch that I am a real tool collector, not a stalker. Again my apologies!

Double post. Sorry

 

[ed4banger]

BS, I left FB Recently because of **** like this, now I'm leaving GJ because people like you are following and monitoring my purchaces, you sir are weird, and your monitoring of my ebay activities needs attention. I will never again post anything on GJ, because of you. get a life, that's not mine.

 

[Smokeshow69]

BS, I left FB Recently because of **** like this, now I'm leaving GJ because people like you are following and monitoring my purchaces, you sir are weird, and your monitoring of my ebay activities needs attention. I will never again post anything on GJ, because of you. get a life, that's not mine.

Wow, this is beyond a weird reaction Ed??? I have bought stuff from you and I am friends with some of the most well known collectors on fb. I seem to have touched a nerve here? It’s not a big jump of inferences for me to think you bought that set since you have openly posted many of your purchases that you have procured over the past few years. I was just complementing you…. Not sure why you felt the need to act like this. Best of luck

-CIA- surveillance van #5

 

[Username already in use]

well, that just happened.

 

[danandmelrod]

Hi everyone,
I picked up this empty craftsman box the morning at the flea market. Any ideas of what came inside? Looking through my catalogs I am guessing it housed the deep socket spark plug set. There are wear markets that indicate it held some type of sockets. Does anyone have this set?
Thanks- Dan

 

[danandmelrod]

Super excited to find this long c bucksaw. My ‘37 big book catalog still shows merit as the brand name so I’m going to guess it’s about a 1940?? Anyone have the big book that references the craftsman bucksaw?
Thanks- Dan

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Sledge hammer might be a Craftsman?



dan....off the top of my head, I'd say the Long C clamshell housed a spark plug socket set with an Ell? Just a guess. I don't see remnants of a socket partition in the box...too small to be a Fit Mor box so....

Nice bucksaw. I took a cursory look through the catalogs. Saw it listed as a Fulton and as a Dunlap but not as a Craftsman. I'm sure it's in there, I'm just too lazy to pin it down.

 

[d42jeep]

I found this mistreated sliding T at an estate sale yesterday. It looked like the previous owner could never find a large punch when he needed one so used this in it’s place. Both ends were completely mushroomed. I did as much repair as I could within reason but the poor thing will never look like new again.
-Don

 

[Smokeshow69]

well, that just happened.

Yeah that was super weird. I just simply asked about a sticker from an eBay auction… one of the stickers inside the wrench box he posted has the same wear marks. You can clearly see they are pretty much identical. I am not sure how I am “stalking” but watching eBay auctions?. I was simply complementing/ congratulating him and hoped he would post pictures of the rare logo because I think other members who were not watching the auction maybe would want to see it?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Looks like they were using the same oil stone box/image into the Crowntop era.

Which helps explain why the cardboard boxes (type, condition, etc) seem incongruous to the logo to me. So, thanks.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Which helps explain why the cardboard boxes (type, condition, etc) seem incongruous to the logo to me. So, thanks.

To put it bluntly, Sears was much more open to “artistic license “ back then than most companies we are familiar with today. If you try to pin down logos as concrete manufacturing eras, you will go crazy.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

If you try to pin down logos as concrete manufacturing eras, you will go crazy.

I think there is a very clear progression from one logo to the next (i.e., Wavy in Oval - Oval with Tabs - Oval with Tabs & Stars - Long C, sometimes embedded in Oval with Tabs & Stars - Long C (includes Short Long C, Geometric, etc) - Heritage - Crowntop - etc etc) that, for the most part, jibes with manufacturing and other marking details that, for the most part, help date most Craftsman tools. Having said that, there are overlaps between logos, during transition periods, that can be tricky, as Outlaw already mentioned. And they weren't very consistent across their entire product line. For example, I think it's pretty clear that the Long C logo remained on some machines longer than it did on most tools. And yeah, some logos - like the one that prompted this line of discussion, just seem to become associated with a line of products where it persisted so long and through several changes that it seems way out of whack.

But I wouldn't overgeneralize those overlaps, aberrations, and anomalies, which could make it seem like it's willy-nilly anything goes (i.e., almost any logo could be found in almost any era and any attempts to timeline them are hopeless), which I don't think is the case.

But what do I know? I'm just a Long C flipper and i still think Lauver's old timeline (now marked up with notes!) is pretty good.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Yes, you explained that way better than I did. We can use logos to date things but there will be some variants here and there.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Cool.

Now let's get back to insanely looking, finding, buying, and showing tools, and wondering what everyone else is insanely finding, buying and showing like normal grown men.

This hobby will kill us all eventually. I can feel my genes conspiring with my stress now.

Dude, you haven't been pulling your weight around here. We've growing plaque like crazy up in these arteries and you're down there on vacation. You call that an ulcer? That's an insult to ulcers.

 

[four.cycle]

I'm doing kind of a half-assed job of following this thread (which looks like it's been to my benefit over the last couple days) so I have to ask:
Has anyone tried to put together some sort of comprehensive list of all these logos and their approximate date ranges?