Show your "Long C" Craftsman!

[Outlawmws]

Is the bit grinding plated, or bare steel?

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

I need to clean it up but the edges and contour sure look nice! A really nice home brew job if that’s what it is

If that’s home made it’s superb. Made with a milling machine for sure.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Is the bit grinding plated, or bare steel?

Ill see if I can check it out tomorrow. I'm in the middle of a huge garage upheaval/ reorganization but I'm pretty sure I know where it's at.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I ended up putting my Underlined Circle H socket set in my blue box.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I just found this drag link socket to add to my circle H socket set. It's not an underlined C, but it's still knurled & marked with the circle H. How late were these drag link sockets offered? Wander if there was an underlined C circle H drag link socket? I don't see the knurled version of these too often.

 

[Cruzan80]

Shows up in the '59 hand tool catalog, disappeared by '66. On a quick look at VM, those are what they have listed (can look deeper later).

 

[Outlawmws]

I don't know about Circle H but I have a BE with a long C listed in my inventory.

 

[Cruzan80]

Fall/Winter '63 shows them, disappears by Spring/Summer '64 (obviously not knurled (H) by that point, just overall).

 

[AntiqueBen]

Fall/Winter '63 shows them, disappears by Spring/Summer '64 (obviously not knurled (H) by that point, just overall).

Circle H would be late 30's-mid 40's though right?

 

[Outlawmws]

Circle H and BE - 31 - 47 according to my timeline.

 

[Cruzan80]

Forget who did the deep dive, but it has been "speculated" (fairly large empirical evidence, but no proof) that the (H) was made at the Kenosha factory from when NB acquired Husky. According to AA, Husky filed for bankruptcy in mid '33, so probably '34 or later for (H). AFAIK, there was not a definitive finding for BE ending before (H) (has been "guess-timated", aka "seems-like").

 

[AntiqueBen]

Forget who did the deep dive, but it has been "speculated" that the (H) was made at the Kenosha factory from when NB acquired Husky. According to AA, Husky filed for bankruptcy in mid '33, so probably '34 or later for (H). AFAIK, there was not a definitive finding for BE ending before (H) (has been speculated).

I understood the C series ratchet came out in '32 & made its last appearance in the '35 Craftsman catalog. Many have referenced BE starting around '31. So, my question is, was BE ratchets out before or at the same time as the C series?

 

[d42jeep]

Forget who did the deep dive, but it has been "speculated" that the (H) was made at the Kenosha factory from when NB acquired Husky. According to AA, Husky filed for bankruptcy in mid '33, so probably '34 or later for (H). AFAIK, there was not a definitive finding for BE ending before (H) (has been speculated).

My feeling has always been that BE started earlier and maybe Circle H was made right up to the transition but I’ve only based that on my examples rather than research. My BE drag link bit has more of the geometric C rather than the long C.
I had a smaller kind of rusty one but I don’t know where it ended up and the picture doesn’t show the markings.
-Don

 

[Cruzan80]

Don, my gut instinct agrees with your "feelings". I was simply trying to differentiate between "speculated" (aka. fairly empirical evidence, but no smoking gun proof), vs the guess-timate of BE ending. Will edit my earlier post, as I didn't realize I was using the same word in two different contexts .

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

I understood the C series ratchet came out in '32 & made its last appearance in the '35 Craftsman catalog. Many have referenced BE starting around '31. So, my question is, was BE ratchets out before or at the same time as the C series?

There was definately a short period where there was an overlap but I think it was very short.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I received the circle H drag link socket today. It's literally twice the size as I thought it would be. It's huge compared to my other drag link socket I have in an old Duro set. It's the same size as the 7/8" socket. It has the double line Craftsman logo but still stamped circle H. I noticed the square opening of the socket is recessed like we see in the next line of sockets which would have been the =V= series. Maybe the recessed square opening was at the end of the circle H run right before=V= series came out? All the other circle H underlined sockets are just flat on square side. I'm interested to know if anyone knows any specifics on this feature. I guess the other question would be, are there any underlined C stamped sockets with the recessed square opening?

 

[d42jeep]

Apparently the recessed opening was a feature of Bridgeport made drag link bits. Here is an old picture of two that I had.

I still have the faintly marked bit and it is recessed just like yours as is my smaller BE bit.
All of the other 1/2” drive NB sockets are flat
Although the 1/2” drive Circle H universal is recessed.
All of the early =v= drag link bits I checked are recessed as are the sockets
-Don

 

[AntiqueBen]

Apparently the recessed opening was a feature of Bridgeport made drag link bits. Here is an old picture of two that I had.

I still have the faintly marked bit and it is recessed just like yours as is my smaller BE bit.
All of the other 1/2” drive NB sockets are flat
Although the 1/2” drive Circle H universal is recessed.
All of the early =v= drag link bits I checked are recessed as are the sockets
-Don

Nice comparison Don. If your BE is recessed, maybe it was just a feature on drag link sockets until you get to the=V= series?

 

[Smokeshow69]

Picked up 2 long c items at an estate sale for $4! I seriously can’t believe I found yet another offset Dbe. In years of hunting I haven’t found any in the wild and now all of a sudden I have for the 3rd week found another one and it’s the slightly newer chrome version. Also scored this long c flex spinner. First one found in the wild as well and it’s not chemically disintegrating!

 

[d42jeep]

Those spinners must have been made out of better plastic. Mine hasn’t started disintegrating yet either.
I wonder if they were supplied by NB too?

-Don

 

[Outlawmws]

Smoke, Hit that spinner handle with mineral oil it's magic!

 

[Smokeshow69]

Smoke, Hit that spinner handle with mineral oil it's magic!

I will do that once I clean it up. My wife has an old mineral oil lamp so I’ve got some on hand

 

[Provincial]

Some Long-C from Thursday's estate sale purchase.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Anyone ever noticed the difference between the BE & circle H handles on the 1/2" ratchet? The knurling on the circle H goes all the way to the very bottom of the handle. The BE knurling stops shy of the end & has a smooth ring finish at the bottom. Upon my curiosity of this, I noticed there are both versions of this in the BE. I wander if this is a clue of which BE's are earlier vs later? Both pics below are both handle versions on BE 1/2" ratchets.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I am moving a Circle-H question from a solo query thread by a new 2-post member here to the Long C thread where it belongs, because it's interesting, because it could lead to more discussion, and because I intent to answer it, but refuse to contribute to yet another splinter thread we won't be able to readily find later.

Here is the question...

I just purchased two 3/8 Circle H ratchets. There are differences in the two. One being the small logo above the word forged.

Here are the logos...



Here is @four.cycle 's answer on the other thread...



Here is my reply...

That "pretzel logo" is most likely a foundry mark. Many OEM's used local or area foundries for production. Those foundries used their own proprietary markings. That particular "pretzel" foundry mark is well known as being affiliated with NB. It shows up on many NB made Craftsman ratchets. Here are a couple others...



But it also shows up on the rare, stylish NDF- series DOE wrenches. I have a few, but I can't find them. Here is one that @Sam'sAutoParts owns. You can see the "pretzel" foundry mark in the panel near the 25/32" head on the right. Mine are older, not chromed, with even more stylish panels, but have the same mark.



We've discussed it before, but I can't seem to find the previous conversations.

There are other letters and symbols (@Outlaw has a ratchet from the same era with an "S" with a vertical line through it, like an S and I monograph) that I also think are foundry marks on NB tools. Those three "dots" are not uniform, which smacks of PO owners' mark, as 4.c alluded to, but I wouldn't bet against them being a foundry mark in that spot.

 

[four.cycle]

^ I figured it was a very deliberate mark of some sort, but I couldn't place it. It is kinda-sorta evocative of Vaughan Bros (of the UK), but only with eyes half closed.
So... we know it's a "foundry mark", but no idea which foundry, correct? (Same probably applies to the "S I" specimen of @Outlawmws 's you mentioned?)

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Right. No idea which foundry, just that it shows up on NB tools.

 

[MZC2]

One box with a few different versions of the Long-C

 

[AntiqueBen]

I am moving a Circle-H question from a solo query thread by a new 2-post member here to the Long C thread where it belongs, because it's interesting, because it could lead to more discussion, and because I intent to answer it, but refuse to contribute to yet another splinter thread we won't be able to readily find later.

Here is the question...

Here are the logos...



Here is @four.cycle 's answer on the other thread...



Here is my reply...

That "pretzel logo" is most likely a foundry mark. Many OEM's used local or area foundries for production. Those foundries used their own proprietary markings. That particular "pretzel" foundry mark is well known as being affiliated with NB. It shows up on many NB made Craftsman ratchets. Here are a couple others...



But it also shows up on the rare, stylish NDF- series DOE wrenches. I have a few, but I can't find them. Here is one that @Sam'sAutoParts owns. You can see the "pretzel" foundry mark in the panel near the 25/32" head on the right. Mine are older, not chromed, with even more stylish panels, but have the same mark.



We've discussed it before, but I can't seem to find the previous conversations.

There are other letters and symbols (@Outlaw has a ratchet from the same era with an "S" with a vertical line through it, like an S and I monograph) that I also think are foundry marks on NB tools. Those three "dots" are not uniform, which smacks of PO owners' mark, as 4.c alluded to, but I wouldn't bet against them being a foundry mark in that spot.

Here's a pic of my New Britain made Craftsman circle H 1/2" ratchet. It also has the "S" stamping. It looks like the S has a "D" & "F" stamped inside of it. No doubt "Drop Forge." Would be neat to know who the S foundry is?

 

[AntiqueBen]

Here is a closer shot of the 1/2" circle H & BE handles. The knurling goes all the way to the bottom on the circle H (on the left in the pic). On the right is the BE where the knurling stops shy of the end, leaving a smooth ring around the bottom.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Although, here is a 1/2" female ratchet & breaker. They are both circle H. The ratchets knurling goes all the way to the bottom, but the breaker's knurling stops shy & has the ring at the bottom. So, it looks like there are both versions in both circle H & BE. Wander why all of it wasn't uniform?

 

[Outlawmws]

Back then it could have been the individual machinist - apprentice vs journeyman, vs Master machinist.

 

[JMP]

I only have a couple long C Craftsman tools and this is now my biggest and heaviest. Not sure how to date this one yet but assume it must be from the 30's or 40's. Even has the original plug and grinding stones. Model on the tag reads 115.6332

 

[Mintgrun]

Nice one. Model 115.6332 - Type CNO - M D31 - 7 Amps

Here's my Model 115.6845 - Type CKO - M M4 46 - 5 Amps for comparison.

I envy the blue paint on yours. It matches the underside of the base on mine.



I'm not impressed with this tool rest design. Yours looks a bit better.

 

[JMP]

Here's my Model 115.6845 - Type CKO - M M4 46 - 5 Amps for comparison.

I envy the blue paint on yours. It matches the underside of the base on mine.

Yours is the Production Grinder while mine is the Industrial model from the old catalog ads. I fell in love with the blue at first sight. Now you have an excuse to do a restoration with a color matched blue

 

[Old Radar]

I believe "M" indicates your Manufacture date-- D31 = April 1931.

 

[FrankLee]

I believe "M" indicates your Manufacture date-- D31 = April 1931.

I'm thinking "D 3 1" is either week 3 of April 1941, or week 1 of April 1943.

That model is in both the 1941 catalog and 1943 catalogs and not in the 1931 catalog.

 

[Old Radar]

I concede the point that it's not a '31 since I don't see that style then, but would hope Sears didn't get too cryptic by putting the year in the middle--I'd opt for '41. I think post-war they simplified the dates to MM YY before they just started stamping the date on the bottom cover.

 

[Outlawmws]

for 115, that would have been Packard Electric stamping the numbers, or possibly Sunlight, The dates are muddy, and included Delco divesting Sunlight and a couple years later, Packard E. acquiring Sunlight.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Got these 8" sanding disks still in a package with a 8" table saw I bought. So cool!