Show your "Long C" Craftsman!

[ryan20021982]

Got this little guy in a big lot of tools

View media item 81939

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Picked up this 16 oz. ball-pein hammer this morning at the flea market. Sharp logo. No mfgrs code, but I have Vlchek hammers, and "BE" (Vlchek) marked Craftsman and Dunlap hammers, and I am positive this is a Vlchek-made hammer.

The ball-pein hammers on page 31 of the 1942 catalog have "highly polished" heads, but the PC 4362 125-pc Master Deluxe tool-set, which came in a PC 4360 Cabinet Roller, shown on page 2, had a 6-oz and 16-oz hammer, and they are shown with heads painted Long C Craftsman era blue.

 

[davethorik]

Forgot I had this long C Craftsman Vanadium BC cold chisel, 5/8"×6.5"
Definitely the fanciest chisel or punch I own.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Scored this doe on vacation ! It has not been cleaned up yet !



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[geo_08]

Outlaw, great thread topic. I have become a collector of older Craftsman tools ever since I came across this complete set of CI combination wrenches. According to Alloy Artifacts (aside from GJ, my other favorite website to read), this set was manufactured sometime in the early to mid 1940s. I found them in a taped box at an estate sale for $5.00 with many later V style craftsman wrenches. After doing a little research I was pleased at this find and it started my ongoing search for early craftsman tools.

I had a set of these wrenches I am have managed to misplace in my moves over the years. Seeing yours makes me want to go find them.

 

[RubiconJK]

Found a couple "CI" marked DOE's today at the flea market. If I read AA correctly the Vanadium wrench is pre-war.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

If I read AA correctly the Vanadium wrench is pre-war.

Yes.

As a point of reference, that's true, in general, across the board, for all mfgrs and all wrenches with brand markings that celebrate precious metals that were controlled by the government beginning in mid-1941, and in late 1941, restricted by amounts that essentially prevented pre-war steel compositions from being made. These included Nickel (0.6%), Chromium (0.6%), Molybdenum (0.6%), and Vanadium (0.0%). As of January 1, 1942, all those pre-war Vanadium, Chrome-Vanadium, and Chrome-Molybdenum wrench lines were suddenly dead.

A consortium of the War Production Board, industry (AISI/SAE), and academia got together in the lab to cook up what would be eventually be known as "New Emergency" steel compositions, AISI 8000-8700 series triple alloys (low amounts of Nickel, Chromium, and Molybdenum). Their invention would change tool steel forever, the war prompting the entire industry to discover that triple alloys were actually stronger and more durable than high content double alloys, and tools got even lighter, leaner, and more streamlined without sacrificing anything. Meanwhile, carbon steel (AISI 1200/1300) was still allowed, of course, as were some Moly alloy recipes high in Manganese (AISI 4000).

Steel mills, forges and customers (including toolmakers) were given until November 1942 to use existing stock. So technically, that Craftsman wrench may have been made by Moore (or whoever "CI" is being attributed to these days) in 1942, but nobody really knows how much old stock steel tool mfgrs kept on hand from run to run. We do see some un-plated Bonney "CV" wrenches with date codes as late as summer from time to time, but the overwhelming majority of unplated wartime style Bonney wrenches are not "CV". Similarly, we see some wartime Herbrand tools marked "VAN-CHROME", but most aren't. The restrictions seem to have taken hold pretty fast.

 

[RubiconJK]

Yes.

As a point of reference, that's true, in general, across the board, for all mfgrs and all wrenches with brand markings that celebrate precious metals that were controlled by the government beginning in mid-1941, and in late 1941, restricted by amounts that essentially prevented pre-war steel compositions from being made. These included Nickel (0.6%), Chromium (0.6%), Molybdenum (0.6%), and Vanadium (0.0%). As of January 1, 1942, all those pre-war Vanadium, Chrome-Vanadium, and Chrome-Molybdenum wrench lines were suddenly dead.

A consortium of the War Production Board, industry (AISI/SAE), and academia got together in the lab to cook up what would be eventually be known as "New Emergency" steel compositions, AISI 8000-8700 series triple alloys (low amounts of Nickel, Chromium, and Molybdenum). Their invention would change tool steel forever, the war prompting the entire industry to discover that triple alloys were actually stronger and more durable than high content double alloys, and tools got even lighter, leaner, and more streamlined without sacrificing anything. Meanwhile, carbon steel (AISI 1200/1300) was still allowed, of course, as were some Moly alloy recipes high in Manganese (AISI 4000).

Steel mills, forges and customers (including toolmakers) were given until November 1942 to use existing stock. So technically, that Craftsman wrench may have been made by Moore (or whoever "CI" is being attributed to these days) in 1942, but nobody really knows how much old stock steel tool mfgrs kept on hand from run to run. We do see some un-plated Bonney "CV" wrenches with date codes as late as summer from time to time, but the overwhelming majority of unplated wartime style Bonney wrenches are not "CV". Similarly, we see some wartime Herbrand tools marked "VAN-CHROME", but most aren't. The restrictions seem to have taken hold pretty fast.

Thanks Lugz. Per an AA update dated 11/15 they state the CI production (as well as AF production) was made by Billings & Spencer and also include a case study of their conclusion.

 

[twertsy]

Thanks Lugz. Per an AA update dated 11/15 they state the CI production (as well as AF production) was made by Billings & Spencer and also include a case study of their conclusion.

I hadn't seen that, thanks for pointing that out. Billings makes much more sense to me.

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[d42jeep]

Here are the long C items I picked up today. I finally noticed that the DBE wrench was broken when I went to clean it up.
-Don

 

[RubiconJK]

Here are the long C items I picked up today. I finally noticed that the DBE wrench was broken when I went to clean it up.
-Don

Nice! Too bad on the DBE. I've done the same thing before.

 

[Summersteel]

"Long C" Craftsman vise I just picked up.

 

[Outlawmws]

 

[wrenchguy]

is that the 5"er? nice find.

 

[Summersteel]

is that the 5"er? nice find.

4-1/2" vise.

 

[Soda Jerk]

Scored some long c, -v-, plomb, and misc.today.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

That's a real nice one fell swoop start on a 3/8-inch drive set, Soda Jerk. You're only missing a short and medium extension, a speeder, and a few sockets. I may be able to help you out.

 

[dallen823]

I have several as well. Will post pics later.

 

[Soda Jerk]

Sounds great guys! This set came with a plomb speeder and some sockets along with a few -v- sockets. Does anyone have a pic of the original box layout? And is this the correct box for a long C set?
Thanks, Paul

 

[Outlawmws]

What if any markings are on the box? is it Long C Craftsman or Plvmb?


Dimensions? The catalogs have the overall dimensions of the boxes... There was certainly some crossover at times, baring specific company stamped markings

 

[Soda Jerk]

One has no markings and the other is a newer version. Insides are the same. I also meant to ask if this box dimension and layout would have been used with a long C set. I tried looking up old craftsman catalogs on a tablet, but wasn't able to open them.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It looks to me as if you've got a Craftsman transition period 3/8-inch drive set, probably made in 1947 or 1948, by New Britain, as Sears & Roebuck was moving from the Long C to the so-called "Heritage" (=CRAFTSMAN=) logo era. One of your boxes has the "Heritage" badge, the other probably had a "Heritage" sticker, but your pieces - at least those that I can see - look like they have Long C markings. (I see that the ratchet is BE. Are all the other pieces also BE?) Trust me, this is not unusual. I've seen lots of transition period sets in all drive sizes and if you page through this thread you will see other examples and discussions on this topic.

A classic Long C set (late 1930's to 1947) would be in a box just like yours, same layout, but blue finish and Long C sticker type decal on the lid. The pieces would be Long C, just like yours, either BE or (H), all made by New Britain, including the Costello patent ratchet. New Britain would drop it for the Fors style ratchet that year for their own production, and effectively also marking the end of the Long C BE and (H) Craftsman era production.

A classic "Heritage" era set (1949 ->) would be in a box like yours, but it had rounded corners, and no speeder bracket, with a "Heritage" badge (=CRAFTSMAN=) riveted to the lid. Pieces would all be marked =CRAFTSMAN=. Not made by New Britain.

Transition period (1948) Craftsman sets like yours typically have Long C pieces in a gray box with "Heritage" decal or badge.

If you look at the thumbnails below, you'll see what I have described above for yourself. If you're interested in exploring it further on your own, the Tool Archives has a full set of Craftsman catalogs in its open library. Link here. (You will need to register, but that's free.)

Pic 1 is from the 1942 Craftsman catalog. Blue box (no dimensions provided), speeder bracket, Long C decal, New Britain tools, all Long C.

Pic 2 is from the 1948 Craftsman catalog. Gray box (17-1/8" x 5" x 1-1/8"), no speeder bracket, "Heritage" decal or badge, pieces are geometric logo, not classic Long C, but not =CRAFTSMAN=, and the ratchet is still definitely New Britain made, the very end of the line for this style, which New Britain was no longer making for their own production (NB, NONE BETTER, Husky).

Pic 3 is from the 1952 Craftsman catalog. Gray box (17-1/8" x 5" x 1-1/8"), rounded corners, no speeder bracket, "Heritage" decal or badge, all =CRAFTSMAN= pieces, not made by New Britain.

 

[Soda Jerk]

Thanks guys for the info and links, I sincerely appreciate it. All the long C is BE stamped. Cleaned the unmarked box and it is blue. I think the newer sockets were probably warranty replacements, it is almost a complete set , just not the same vintage.
Home from work and going to spend some time reading this thread to try to get a little more familiar with these gems.
Paul

 

[Catfishdan]

I found the correct breaker bar for this little BE set at the flea market today. All I need now is the elusive crossbar.



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[Private Lugnutz]

They're not marked, Dan. If that's a 1/2-inch drive set, the bar should be 3/8" diameter. You can double check the I.D. of the hole, but I'm pretty sure all the New Britain hinge handles, including the (H) and BE were drilled for a 3/8" bar. If you don't have any spares, let me know. I have a bunch of orphan cross bars. I most likely have a 3/8".

 

[Catfishdan]

They're not marked, Dan. If that's a 1/2-inch drive set, the bar should be 3/8" diameter. You can double check the I.D. of the hole, but I'm pretty sure all the New Britain hinge handles, including the (H) and BE were drilled for a 3/8" bar. If you don't have any spares, let me know. I have a bunch of orphan cross bars. I most likely have a 3/8".

That's actually a 1/4 inch set.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Doh! I guess I should've opened the photo before replying. Those I don't have spares. I'll keep an eye out though.

 

[Catfishdan]

Doh! I guess I should've opened the photo before replying. Those I don't have spares. I'll keep an eye out though.

Thank you sir. I measured the opening. Looks like 3/16.

 

[d42jeep]

The odd thing is when I tried my New Britain 1/4” drive crossbar in my BE flex handle it was a different size. Go figure. Crossbars are generally hard to find!
-Do

 

[notlob]

Thank you sir. I measured the opening. Looks like 3/16.

For a Giants fan I may have a spare "tommy bar" for that C-man 1/4" set. I'll check.

 

[Catfishdan]

For a Giants fan I may have a spare "tommy bar" for that C-man 1/4" set. I'll check.

Awesome. Thanks! Us giants fans gotta stick together till we get some pitching back.

 

[pi_guy]

Here are a couple of pictures I took yesterday.
-Don

never answered

 

[gpw_42]

Catfish, can you post a pic(s) showing the color of the blue on that 1/4" box? I'm about to paint a bare metal box with a BE 1/2" drive set in it, and want to closely approximate the original color.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Catfishdan]

Catfish, can you post a pic(s) showing the color of the blue on that 1/4" box? I'm about to paint a bare metal box with a BE 1/2" drive set in it, and want to closely approximate the original color.

Thanks,
Steve

This box is black wrinkle finish. I've seen others with the same paint too. It appears to be the original color.



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[gpw_42]

This box is black wrinkle finish. I've seen others with the same paint too. It appears to be the original color.

Go figure, yesterday I bought some Rustoleum Satin Navy Blue. That's easy enough to correct, thanks for the tip, Catfish!

Steve

 

[Outlawmws]

I think that with the Yellow letters on blue of the logo, and the black wrinkle, that is a 30's box. the 42 catalog and known examples were a dark blue.

 

[406Rich]

Picked a bunch up at a garage sale about a year and a half ago, all in a cardboard box, bought the whole mess (some off shores junk too ) but there was a full set of long C in the box, I`ll have to go back and look again at what else was with it besides the breaker bar, sockets two extensions and a T handle.

 

[Catfishdan]

A pair of long C items followed me home from an estate sale today. A 1/2" L handle and a 29/32" socket. Both BE marked. Couldn't say no for only a buck.



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[Private Lugnutz]

Nice. Those L-handles aren't common. I've found two in the wild.

 

[Rileysan]

Recent CL acquisitions:

Craftsman air compressor (it works!), and long-C yard stick (along with a couple saws), and a drill bit index. The index is more than half full of original bits!

Brian