Simpson-Mixing fasteners

[bluedog225]

I’ve been mixing 0.162 nails and Simpson strong drive fasteners on my Simpson hardware for a long while now.

My bad for not reading the instructions. Though sometimes a screw is possible where a nail is not.

I always assumed I’d get the best of both. Pull out protection and shear strength.

I’m certain that the Simpson engineers know more than me.

Does anyone know why mixing screws and nails is a bad idea?

It will take quite a while to go back and remediate. Since the nails are not coming out as a practical matter, I’d be replacing SD screws with nails.

 

[jack stand]

Personally, how do I not question that it's about selling more .50c - .75c+ screws? (Depending on the application)
I'm a big fan of Simpson structural screw after moving to them from GRK Rss series but after years of experience and involvement you develop a feel for the type and amount of fasteners necessary for the application.
Fastening for inspection is a different animal, the inspectors hands are tied.

 

[duneslider]

My guess is that they have not done testing on the infinite different combinations of screws/nails that you could come up with so they have no way of knowing what will happen and can't put a stamp of approval on it. I suspect that it is just fine though, but if this is stuff that is being inspected then you might be out of luck.

Either way, if you intend to fix it, I would call Simpson's tech line and ask them what you should do. Putting nails into holes that had screws may not be acceptable either. You might have to use a different size/length or something.

I really like their screws and just go that route when I am doing hangers (if I did a lot of hangers I would get a hanger nail gun and use nails though)

 

[mike93lx]

I wouldn't be taking a screw out to replace with a nail unless they advise that is the right corrective action. Feels like a weaker end result due to the sizing of the screws

 

[nadogail]

If you follow the directions you can blame failure on poor directions.

If you decide that you know a better way you have assumed all the liability for connector failure.

 

[Hank11]

If you’re using either fastener as it is intended or required by code, you did it right.

 

[bluedog225]

No code. Just following the fastener specs.

My historical mistake was mixing screws and nails. Simpson flatly says “Don’t mix fastener types.” Wasn’t aware.

I was wondering if there was an engineering reason for this.

I’m putting in the last hanger for this project. Lots of holes to fill. I’d love to use screws but it specifies nails.

Driving 3.5” 16d nails into a some LVLs. 0.162". I’m bending nails every time.

Simpson allows me to predrill but no larger than 75% of the fastener diameter.

.75x0.162“ is 0.1215”

1/8” bit is 0.125”

argh!

 

[The Cobbler]

#31 drill bit is 0.120

 

[mike93lx]

No code. Just following the fastener specs.

My historical mistake was mixing screws and nails. Simpson flatly says “Don’t mix fastener types.” Wasn’t aware.

I was wondering if there was an engineering reason for this.

I’m putting in the last hanger for this project. Lots of holes to fill. I’d love to use screws but it specifies nails.

Driving 3.5” 16d nails into a some LVLs. 0.162". I’m bending nails every time.

Simpson allows me to predrill but no larger than 75% of the fastener diameter.

.75x0.162“ is 0.1215”

1/8” bit is 0.125”

argh!

Palm nailers are pretty great and they're pretty cheap. I really like my ridgid

Too bad it's the last one, a metal connector nailer may have been worth it if the project had a bunch of these

 

[bluedog225]

I’ve got a rigid palm nailer. Maybe it will have better luck. I’ll give it a shot.

 

[duneslider]

It is critical that you do use only nails on hangers that say only nails, my understanding is the shear on the nails is better than the screws. On the hangers that allow nails or screws, I just can't see there being much of an issue mixing but again I am not simpson and don't know for sure. For small qty of hangers the screws are very nice to use.

 

[rancherbill]

The short answer is that there is not a lot of engineering data on screws and their long term use. For example, does a screw hold as well 40 years from now if there is cracking and splitting in the wood. I have run into a very similar situation.

I know somebody will answer with the 'common sense" rationale, but, it is just the way it is. The proof is that Simpson wants it done a certain way and THEY ARE FAMILIAR WITH ALL THE RULES.