SK QC Issues

[AceofSpad3s]

I have some gearwrench stuff and haven't seen any problems with it. I got a 84t back from warrantying an allen round head (what a pile) and it is good, I've never seen anyone complain about the gearwrench ratchets (besides 120's slipping if you put too heavy of a lubricant in them).
Got a set of 1/4 metrics for cheap with a advanced auto order a few months ago and they looks very well made. Both of these are taiwan mind you, the $50 for 20 ratcheting wrenches are chinese made, as well as the bit sockets and other stuff. The earlier gearwrench sets with 36 tooth ratchets are all chinese including the sockets, which could be a source of problems.

I'm not saying they are SK quality, but I don't think they are junk either

 

[Wamsutta]

My biggest gripe about GearWrench is they put the detents in the wrong spot. They need to move them down further just a little bit.

 

[Yarpo]

Happens every day... The youngsters coming out of Tech schools love Gearwrench and Carlyle. And they use them on the job every day...and they hold up just fine along side of us old timers "vanity tools"... Would that qualify as a "comparison" ...?

Yup, pretty much me/my demographic. When the employer starts you out at 12 dollars an hour, you damn well know people will find the best cheap tools they can. Gearwrench and carlyle filled that and in my opinion, fantastically.

 

[M6erfan]

Yup, pretty much me/my demographic. When the employer starts you out at 12 dollars an hour, you damn well know people will find the best cheap tools they can. Gearwrench and carlyle filled that and in my opinion, fantastically.

Smart. Good man.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

My biggest gripe about GearWrench is they put the detents in the wrong spot. They need to move them down further just a little bit.

Yep; The USA Apex socket sets I currently own with that goofy detent will not be sticking around, And, I have little trust in My GearWrench ratcheting wrenches. I have come to despise that Apex dime store stuff. Nobody can say I didn't give it a fair try..

 

[Empty Pockets]

I have quite a lot of SK tools, and have been well pleased with them

 

[mudflap]

I have quite a lot of SK tools, and have been well pleased with them

Me too... and my criticism is not so much the tools, or the price.. but distribution and warranty.. Problems that have gotten no better under Ideal..The tools are, and always have been rock solid, dependable, and durable. They are really better suited for Industrial Maintenance type applications where working in tight/confined spaces isn't such an issue..and those type buyers aren't as picky when it comes to small imperfections that don't effect function. That Techs can tend to obsess over..

 

[Negen]

Yup, pretty much me/my demographic. When the employer starts you out at 12 dollars an hour, you damn well know people will find the best cheap tools they can. Gearwrench and carlyle filled that and in my opinion, fantastically.

Kinda sad on that pay I am going to school this fall to be a diesel tech and welder because my family cannot hire a tech no one here will work for 25$/hr with full benefits and retirement package. But I spent 10 years living in tunnels in socal so I know how to be frugal.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[CR888]

I just think its ironic a forum dedicated to tools & full of members who claim COO is highly important with many who will buy US made whenever they can. A thread like this starts and everyone & their dog turns up to flog to death a US tool co like this. Sad & shameful!

 

[Yarpo]

Kinda sad on that pay I am going to school this fall to be a diesel tech and welder because my family cannot hire a tech no one here will work for 25$/hr with full benefits and retirement package. But I spent 10 years living in tunnels in socal so I know how to be frugal.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

I was just talking to a kid today who was starting year two of his diesel mechanic program and was making 13 dollars an hour, after a full year with the company. It's crazy. I've been at it for four years and was doing ok but I'm in the process of trying out something else and won't be coming back. Your situation sounds more than fair tho, good luck!

 

[M_George]

I just think its ironic a forum dedicated to tools & full of members who claim COO is highly important with many who will buy US made whenever they can. A thread like this starts and everyone & their dog turns up to flog to death a US tool co like this. Sad & shameful!

Agree!!!

 

[Negen]

I was just talking to a kid today who was starting year two of his diesel mechanic program and was making 13 dollars an hour, after a full year with the company. It's crazy. I've been at it for four years and was doing ok but I'm in the process of trying out something else and won't be coming back. Your situation sounds more than fair tho, good luck!

Main reason is I need a engine rebuilt and the shops out here charge 400$/ hour manual says 12 hours so it's cheaper to buy tools and pay for school than it is to pay them. Sad a shop can charge so much but pay the mechanic so little.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[AceofSpad3s]

I just think its ironic a forum dedicated to tools & full of members who claim COO is highly important with many who will buy US made whenever they can. A thread like this starts and everyone & their dog turns up to flog to death a US tool co like this. Sad & shameful!

Just because something is made here doesn't mean it can get away with worse finishing than many imports at a lower cost. That kind of attitude is why Toyota and Honda managed to slaughter the US car makers for decades. From the stuff I have gotten over the years, I would say SK chrome has been the nicest of it all, I have gotten many used old snap on items with cracked and chipping chrome where as SK stuff looks and feels great, even 60 year old ratchets.

If I were to buy their products new right now, I'd expect the same level I've seen. I don't think it is unreasonable if someone purchasing new, fairly expensive from the USA would expect them to be finished well.
I cannot recall many people around here about the finish of any Proto, Williams or Wright stuff and all of those are made in the US.

People like SK, that is why they are critical of them, people here might be fine with non function inhibiting defects, but if some random joe that doesn't go on tool fourm gets a set of SK stuff and sees stuff like that, he might think the brand is junk and never take a second look.

 

[Sloper0204]

The ignorance shown in this thread is reaching epic proportions. Even for GJ...

The amount of ******** and conjecture in this thread impresses me. I can't seem to stop clicking in here to see what new levels of autism have been reached.

The bottom line is I'm trying to get S-K to improve their quality, no matter how you interpreted my comments. Maybe I don't have the words in the right place, but my heart is there.

And, pray tell, how in the hell do you plan on influencing S-K's QC department by bitching about it online? Are you going to donate money to the company and have it earmarked to go to hiring more/better QC personnel? Or how about buying them some new machinery?

 

[DadsTools]

Check prices from retailers that carry new stock like hje. For some reason manufactures do not list or sell items at retail prices. My SK 94515 set was bought for 110$ the new lp90 ratchet is about 50$ but is listed at 90$ for some reason. It would be nice to be able to buy straight from sk at retail prices instead up the marked up fake prices they have on their site.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

If I understand you correctly, you're complaining about the inflated retail prices on the mfr's site and would like to buy them factory direct at a discount.

If so, please know this is a practice in many industries besides tools and goes back a very long time. The challenge is this:

Dealers don't want the mfr to cut their throats with factory-direct discounting.
The factory does not want to lose sales because the customer can't find a dealer or chooses not to buy from a dealer.

The inflated mfr retail price is to keep the dealer happy. "See? we're not undercutting you. These customers will pay through the nose to buy directly from us. They would get it a lot cheaper if they bought from you. But, Mr. Dealer, you can't expect us to turn down sales that you're not getting for us, can you?"

Whenever you see such disparities between mfr list and dealer prices in any industry, this is what's going on.

 

[Sloper0204]

Main reason is I need a engine rebuilt and the shops out here charge 400$/ hour manual says 12 hours so it's cheaper to buy tools and pay for school than it is to pay them. Sad a shop can charge so much but pay the mechanic so little.

Just because I've already joined the dog pile, I'm going to respond to this one.

First of all, how do you know what the shops overhead is? What percentage of that $400/hr goes towards the machining equipment that is on site? Or do they contract out the machining and have to maintain a markup on that work to keep the doors open?

Do you even realize that an hourly rate for a full time, fully benefited employee is only about 60% of the actual cost to the employer for that employee? Say I hire a mechanic and pay him $10/hr (nice number for sake of math), that means that employee will also cost me an additional $4 to $6/hr to cover state and federal taxes and insurance (depending on where said shop is located and the local tax rates).

Then I have to pay for the professional liability insurance. And the insurance on the shop. And the utility bills to perform the work in the shop. And the note/rent on the shop. And the equipment. And the customer service people that you demand are available at any time you call so I don't get blasted online for having "horrible customer service." And their isurance and taxes. And their computer. And the phone system with more than one line. And the supervisor to keep the mechanics working on your engine instead of checking GJ all day. And the accountant/controller to keep costs in check and the company operating.

So how much are you willing to pay to have said mechanic make $40/hr? $50/hr? At what point do I price myself out of the market and can't afford to keep the doors open any longer? Or do I stay a one man shop and deal with your complaints that it takes 6 months to complete an engine rebuild?

People ******* and moaning about hourly rates are the same people that complain about perceived quality level and unrealistic time frames.

 

[Gmonkee]

Main reason is I need a engine rebuilt and the shops out here charge 400$/ hour manual says 12 hours so it's cheaper to buy tools and pay for school than it is to pay them. Sad a shop can charge so much but pay the mechanic so little.

Sent from my G8141 htpp[/URL

For one engine basic skills and a complete manual for that particular model is more cost effective. For fleet work long term school makes sense.

Our shop has a stack of aging manuals for lesser seen models.

 

[buckwheat_la]

Just because I've already joined the dog pile, I'm going to respond to this one.

First of all, how do you know what the shops overhead is? What percentage of that $400/hr goes towards the machining equipment that is on site? Or do they contract out the machining and have to maintain a markup on that work to keep the doors open?

Do you even realize that an hourly rate for a full time, fully benefited employee is only about 60% of the actual cost to the employer for that employee? Say I hire a mechanic and pay him $10/hr (nice number for sake of math), that means that employee will also cost me an additional $4 to $6/hr to cover state and federal taxes and insurance (depending on where said shop is located and the local tax rates).

Then I have to pay for the professional liability insurance. And the insurance on the shop. And the utility bills to perform the work in the shop. And the note/rent on the shop. And the equipment. And the customer service people that you demand are available at any time you call so I don't get blasted online for having "horrible customer service." And their isurance and taxes. And their computer. And the phone system with more than one line. And the supervisor to keep the mechanics working on your engine instead of checking GJ all day. And the accountant/controller to keep costs in check and the company operating.

So how much are you willing to pay to have said mechanic make $40/hr? $50/hr? At what point do I price myself out of the market and can't afford to keep the doors open any longer? Or do I stay a one man shop and deal with your complaints that it takes 6 months to complete an engine rebuild?

People ******* and moaning about hourly rates are the same people that complain about perceived quality level and unrealistic time frames.

There is a part you seem to be missing in this model. Most businesses run on a model of 1/3. 1/3rd is wages/running costs, 1/3 is hard costs and materials, 1/3 is margin. So lets take your $400/hour. That should leave $133/hour for running costs including wages. So assuming that employee costs his employer $20 a hour, that leaves $113/hour to cover all the other costs? That seems a bit out of whack to me.

 

[DadsTools]

Wow. This thread has really wandered, hasn't it? Some of the points being argued are far off-topic, a few amusingly so.

Anyway, it seems the S-K QC complaints are about the chrome finishes, particularly in broaches. I have no idea what role, if any, existing pre-Ideal inventory plays, or even how valid are the speculations about its very existence in dealers' inventory after nearly 8 years of Ideal.

Haven't yet seen any complaints about the structural quality of S-K tools. And this is true going back many decades--S-K stuff from all eras still sells very well on the used market as long as the finish is in decent shape. I suspect a lot of this is being purchased to be used.

Oh, I can see it now...."I had such-and-such S-K break and it shouldn't have" on and on and on. Anything to keep this particular trolley ride going even after it reached its destination some time ago.

If you want to chime about prices or shop work costs or S-K vs Gearwrench vs the rest of the world, etc, etc, you can always start your own thread if you feel that strongly about it.

I know that those who don't want to get off the trolley yet will probably start arguing about what I just posted. Well, I posted it anyway. I think that all there is to say about S-K QC with regard to the chrome finishes has already been voiced. Hell, there isn't even a driver in the trolley anymore--it's rolling down the tracks all by itself!



There's still a lot of folks who support S-K, want it to be successful, and applaud what Ideal is trying to do with it instead of the usual corporate buyout/****. Here's hoping they are able to clear up whatever internal issues they're having with chrome.

 

[Sloper0204]

There is a part you seem to be missing in this model. Most businesses run on a model of 1/3. 1/3rd is wages/running costs, 1/3 is hard costs and materials, 1/3 is margin. So lets take your $400/hour. That should leave $133/hour for running costs including wages. So assuming that employee costs his employer $20 a hour, that leaves $113/hour to cover all the other costs? That seems a bit out of whack to me.

But then you make the assumption that there is only a single employee covered in the wages/running costs. How many laborer's, mechanics, machinists, and overhead (supervision, management, office staff, etc) are there in that 1/3?

• Laborer 1: $12
• Laborer 2: $12
• Mechanic: $20
• Machinist: $25
• Foreman: $25
• Manager: $27
• Office Staff: $12
• Total: $133

Our "burn rate" in the shop was close to that $400 an hour mark that is being referenced, and we had 1 supervisor, 1 office staff, 1 foreman, and between 4 and 8 shop hands with varying levels of skill and hourly rates depending on work load. And it wasn't anywhere close to large profits, because if you aren't reinvesting your margin to better equipment we run into issues like what the original topic of this thread was about.

 

[Sloper0204]

Wow. This thread has really wandered, hasn't it? Some of the points being argued are far off-topic, a few amusingly so.

Oh no! A topic of conversation has wandered from the origination point?

 

[mudflap]

Me too... and my criticism is not so much the tools, or the price.. but distribution and warranty.. Problems that have gotten no better under Ideal..The tools are, and always have been rock solid, dependable, and durable. They are really better suited for Industrial Maintenance type applications where working in tight/confined spaces isn't such an issue..and those type buyers aren't as picky when it comes to small imperfections that don't effect function. That Techs can tend to obsess over..

................................................................................................................

 

[Tallpilot]

Just because I've already joined the dog pile, I'm going to respond to this one.

First of all, how do you know what the shops overhead is? What percentage of that $400/hr goes towards the machining equipment that is on site? Or do they contract out the machining and have to maintain a markup on that work to keep the doors open?

Do you even realize that an hourly rate for a full time, fully benefited employee is only about 60% of the actual cost to the employer for that employee? Say I hire a mechanic and pay him $10/hr (nice number for sake of math), that means that employee will also cost me an additional $4 to $6/hr to cover state and federal taxes and insurance (depending on where said shop is located and the local tax rates).

Then I have to pay for the professional liability insurance. And the insurance on the shop. And the utility bills to perform the work in the shop. And the note/rent on the shop. And the equipment. And the customer service people that you demand are available at any time you call so I don't get blasted online for having "horrible customer service." And their isurance and taxes. And their computer. And the phone system with more than one line. And the supervisor to keep the mechanics working on your engine instead of checking GJ all day. And the accountant/controller to keep costs in check and the company operating.

So how much are you willing to pay to have said mechanic make $40/hr? $50/hr? At what point do I price myself out of the market and can't afford to keep the doors open any longer? Or do I stay a one man shop and deal with your complaints that it takes 6 months to complete an engine rebuild?

People ******* and moaning about hourly rates are the same people that complain about perceived quality level and unrealistic time frames.

This is good analysis and needs to be repeated constantly because most people don't know the intricacies of running a business. He isn't bitching and moaning though; he's cutting you out of the loop and doing it himself because he thinks he can do it cheaper. Perhaps he can; impossible to say.

This problem is systemic and a major drag on the economy. Uncontrollable costs (from the business owner's perspective) like taxes and insurance which eventually feed back into rents since the property owner also faces those costs squeeze the owner's margins to the point where he must raise prices but still can't afford to increase wages so he loses employees to the larger business down the street which can.

At some point this cost spiral will blow up and reset but until it does standards of living are going to continue to go down no matter how hard you work and regardless if you work for wages or own your own business.

Back to the issue at hand. I wish SK success but when I can buy USA made Williams for a similar price point there really isn't any reason to take the risk of getting a dud just to support SK.

 

[Sloper0204]

This is good analysis and needs to be repeated constantly because most people don't know the intricacies of running a business. He isn't bitching and moaning though; he's cutting you out of the loop and doing it himself because he thinks he can do it cheaper. Perhaps he can; impossible to say.

This problem is systemic and a major drag on the economy. Uncontrollable costs (from the business owner's perspective) like taxes and insurance which eventually feed back into rents since the property owner also faces those costs squeeze the owner's margins to the point where he must raise prices but still can't afford to increase wages so he loses employees to the larger business down the street which can.

At some point this cost spiral will blow up and reset but until it does standards of living are going to continue to go down no matter how hard you work and regardless if you work for wages or own your own business.

That's precisely why we sold the business and I now work for an international organization that is the largest of its kind in the world rather than continuing to deal with employees that feel entitled to higher wages at the cost of being able to keep the doors open.

Back to the issue at hand. I wish SK success but when I can buy USA made Williams for a similar price point there really isn't any reason to take the risk of getting a dud just to support SK.

Since complaints were made about the wandering of this thread; I have yet to receive a "dud" in any of my SK purchases. My warranty replacements have been received in a timely manner and they haven't become excessive enough to put me off the brand.

 

[buckwheat_la]

But then you make the assumption that there is only a single employee covered in the wages/running costs. How many laborer's, mechanics, machinists, and overhead (supervision, management, office staff, etc) are there in that 1/3?

• Laborer 1: $12
• Laborer 2: $12
• Mechanic: $20
• Machinist: $25
• Foreman: $25
• Manager: $27
• Office Staff: $12
• Total: $133

Our "burn rate" in the shop was close to that $400 an hour mark that is being referenced, and we had 1 supervisor, 1 office staff, 1 foreman, and between 4 and 8 shop hands with varying levels of skill and hourly rates depending on work load. And it wasn't anywhere close to large profits, because if you aren't reinvesting your margin to better equipment we run into issues like what the original topic of this thread was about.

So your arguement is that $400/hour is to support 7 staff members?! So when a rate job is quoted by the manufacturer at 12 hours for the job that is for 2 mechanics and the secretary etc to be exclusively putting in 12 hours on that?!

 

[kb1982]

Of all the SK Tools I've purchased in the last two years, I only had one issue. That was with a 10 mm Xframe that the ratcheting mechanism failed. Sent it in to them, and it was quickly resolved. As for the member posting about the refused delivery, Im willing to bet that was a mistake on the post office. If they forget a package in the truck, and decide they are too lazy to make another trip, they need an excuse why they brought the package back to the post office. Heres a link to a thread I made about my experience with sending in a tool for warranty with SK and Proto. Team green was on the ball.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=389448

 

[Mgdoug3]

I bought this ratchet used and look at the center of the mechanism. I should ask for my money back. Sarcasm aside now, this ratchet actually has very low back drag, no slop in the head and decent chrome for a 50 year old tool. Sometimes tools don't have the best appearance but if its functional that's more important to me. I said it before, I'll keep buying SK products. They feel great in my hands and can still get parts. I have 12 SK ratchets I own and use and looking for more.

 

[Sloper0204]

So your arguement is that $400/hour is to support 7 staff members?! So when a rate job is quoted by the manufacturer at 12 hours for the job that is for 2 mechanics and the secretary etc to be exclusively putting in 12 hours on that?!

Who said anything about 12 hours? Please expound upon your experience with P&L and management of a job shop working on hourly rates. I wait with baited breath to be schooled on my misunderstanding of how things work in the real world.

Job I'm on right now is $840/hr total (for manpower only, not counting equipment) with 12 people. $400/hr for shop work is small beans.

Lets just say that every hour worked/billed has to cover everything going on in that shop, and if you can't understand that just continue complaining about how overpriced things are.

Last edit: I'll back off from being combative. I in no way stated that they would work exclusively 12 hours on a job if it was quoted at 12 hours. It doesn't work that way, but its hard to explain unless you've actually estimated and bid jobs. You are going to bid some jobs and lose money, and bid some that you make unbelievable margins on, it all equals out. The office staff won't work exclusively on that one job, but they will be spending time with people such as you that will have a million questions and ask the same thing five different ways to get an answer they like etc. And they have to perform the billing, and the payroll, and run to the post office, the bank, etc.

If the job is bid at 12 hours and it actually only takes 12 hours to complete, the mechanics probably did put in 12 hours. The laborers would be anything between 6 to 12 hours on it, and the office staff could be anywhere from 1 to 20 hours dealing with a micromanaging customer that wants constant updates and emails and if it takes more than 10 minutes to respond my god going to burn that shop down.

 

[Negen]

I think that 12 hours was a response to me because the shop hours required to rebuild my engine is 12 with a 9500$ quote for labor only.

Sorry to sidetrack this thread but the points are linked. Automotive techs seem to be under paid was one point that people came to when they buy tools. They are expecting higher quality when having to pay 50-100% more and getting less quality is the point that was about.

Then there is the point that companies like sk do not need to rely on dealers if they allowed people to buy from them at normal retail price people wouldn't have to be deal seekers and maybe get old stock that is lower quality. Lp90 is listed at I think 90$ when it is sold at dealers for 50$

The other point is that if 1$/ socket tools turn nuts and bolts the same as 5-8$/socket tools then what do you get when buying higher priced tools?

Another point is even though lower priced tools generally have lower quality at least the quality is consistent.

I think people get caught up in online discussions and sometimes things get read as negative comments when that is not the intention. And I think using the mobile application some people get miss quoted.

Again I apologize for side tracking this thread but I felt at the time the comments seemed linked.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Sloper0204]

The other point is that if 1$/ socket tools turn nuts and bolts the same as 5-8$/socket tools then what do you get when buying higher priced tools?

Its all about perceived quality and what a consumer feels they need for the money spent, right?

 

[Negen]

I do not like quick release ratchets and gear wrench seems the hardest to pull off a ratchet even more so if it is oily fitments are odd to me but I do not own a gear wrench ratchet so maybe that is the issue also cheaper tools tend to not sit on shelf's for the same amount of time as higher priced tools.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Yarpo]

Sorry to sidetrack this thread but the points are linked. Automotive techs seem to be under paid was one point that people came to when they buy tools. They are expecting higher quality when having to pay 50-100% more and getting less quality is the point that was about.

The other point is that if 1$/ socket tools turn nuts and bolts the same as 5-8$/socket tools then what do you get when buying higher priced tools?

Another point is even though lower priced tools generally have lower quality at least the quality is consistent.

Again I apologize for side tracking this thread but I felt at the time the comments seemed linked.
]

Well said, it's slightly off topic but not that far. When a company has issues and is higher priced than (insert other company) a tech making less is going to look elsewhere. Its troublesome for everyone, and as mentioned earlier relates to SKs business tactics.

 

[6PTsocket]

Apples to oranges argument. I guess you maticulously check the wheel wells and panel gaps, overspray under the plastic panels as well?

Funny you should mention that. I was sitting next to what looked like a late model Ford SUV, today, at a traffic light and noticed how bad the panel gaps were.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Negen]

We are giving away a 2019 Chevy stingray at work and I noticed how bad the paint is. It has a strange orange peal look to it.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[PJNJ]

Funny you should mention that. I was sitting next to what looked like a late model Ford SUV, today, at a traffic light and noticed how bad the panel gaps were.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

We are giving away a 2019 Chevy stingray at work and I noticed how bad the paint is. It has a strange orange peal look to it.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

I was looking at the apples and oranges today at the supermarket and I couldn't believe how many were bruised.

 

[HondaCBMan]

Funny you should mention that. I was sitting next to what looked like a late model Ford SUV, today, at a traffic light and noticed how bad the panel gaps were.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

When the GT350 came out I went to look at one. Noticeably bad panel gaps. Disappointing for a car that was marked up well above the MSRP.

I have no dog in this SK witch hunt. I applaud SK Eric for reaching out and helping those that have issues.

 

[kythri]

We are giving away a 2019 Chevy stingray at work and I noticed how bad the paint is. It has a strange orange peal look to it.

How loud was the orange peal?

 

[buckwheat_la]

Main reason is I need a engine rebuilt and the shops out here charge 400$/ hour manual says 12 hours so it's cheaper to buy tools and pay for school than it is to pay them. Sad a shop can charge so much but pay the mechanic so little.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

Just because I've already joined the dog pile, I'm going to respond to this one.

First of all, how do you know what the shops overhead is? What percentage of that $400/hr goes towards the machining equipment that is on site? Or do they contract out the machining and have to maintain a markup on that work to keep the doors open?

Do you even realize that an hourly rate for a full time, fully benefited employee is only about 60% of the actual cost to the employer for that employee? Say I hire a mechanic and pay him $10/hr (nice number for sake of math), that means that employee will also cost me an additional $4 to $6/hr to cover state and federal taxes and insurance (depending on where said shop is located and the local tax rates).

Then I have to pay for the professional liability insurance. And the insurance on the shop. And the utility bills to perform the work in the shop. And the note/rent on the shop. And the equipment. And the customer service people that you demand are available at any time you call so I don't get blasted online for having "horrible customer service." And their isurance and taxes. And their computer. And the phone system with more than one line. And the supervisor to keep the mechanics working on your engine instead of checking GJ all day. And the accountant/controller to keep costs in check and the company operating.

So how much are you willing to pay to have said mechanic make $40/hr? $50/hr? At what point do I price myself out of the market and can't afford to keep the doors open any longer? Or do I stay a one man shop and deal with your complaints that it takes 6 months to complete an engine rebuild?

People ******* and moaning about hourly rates are the same people that complain about perceived quality level and unrealistic time frames.

This is where the 12 hrs came from. And if you feel it was combative its because you were pretty hard on Negen to start. I have owned a business for 20 years now and have a pretty good idea on costs. And I have a hard time believing that at $400/hour someone is pricing a wage of $13/hour for the mechanics.

 

[Sloper0204]

This is where the 12 hrs came from.

Because the manual is always correct...

And if you feel it was combative its because you were pretty hard on Negen to start.

I stated that I was being combative, but if you thought I was meaning you

I have owned a business for 20 years now and have a pretty good idea on costs.

Guess it is a good thing reading comprehension is not a requirement to get a business license because:

And I have a hard time believing that at $400/hour someone is pricing a wage of $13/hour for the mechanics.

Say I hire a mechanic and pay him $10/hr (nice number for sake of math)

It was a number used to illustrate a point, not based in reality.

 

[buckwheat_la]

Because the manual is always correct...

I stated that I was being combative, but if you thought I was meaning you

Guess it is a good thing reading comprehension is not a requirement to get a business license because:





It was a number used to illustrate a point, not based in reality.

Sorry, I guess if we are using imaginary numbers to make a point this is obviously a discussion I can't win