SK tools core focus

[four.cycle]

^ That may very well be true in the case of the impact sockets, but on a chromed socket (particularly on smaller drive sizes, which is where I see more of the "off-center" issue: tiny 1/4" drive 3/16" and 7/32" 6-points), what difference is it going to make? You're not applying massive amounts of torque to tiny fasteners like that.
I probably have at least 20 brands - maybe more - of different socket sets, and invariably I run into one that might be punched off center a hair. (And I'm talking "hair" here, as in chruler.com) - not even a millimeter. As noted above, it doesn't make the socket not work at the end of a hand ratchet.
It's just fussy for the sake of fussy.
Almost as silly as the guys who used to take the 3/8" drive extensions off the tool board and roll them across a piece of glass to check "straightness" - if you're driving it with a hand ratchet, what difference does it make?

Impacts: different ball of wax, granted.

And, as I am sure you are aware (being in the manufacturing business), all manufacturers have their "off days". One or two botched items does not a "bad" manufacturer make.

 

[M6erfan]

Off-center broach is nothing to shrug about.

Off center broached sockets do not rotate concentric to the fastener
- Causing increased vibration
- Increased wear on your impact wrench
- Increased wear on the socket.

Off center broached sockets have one wall side much thinner than spec. Impact sockets are designed to have a spec wall thickness befitting of their use and material.

Increased wear, increased vibration, thinner wall than spec. Do the math.
And when impact sockets go, they go off like a shotgun.

No matter who makes it (Astro included, I've had to scrap some SKU's because of this), don't settle for "it's probably fine." Your anecdotal experience may indicate that they historically are fine, but from my perspective selling thousands at a time - it's not a risk free endeavor.

Thank you Chris. Yeah, agreed. Careful though, if you dare to bring it up you'll be pegged a "tool polisher"...

I use my tools, which is exactly why I wont settle for poor QC. Obvious faulty manufacturing/QC processes can lead to injury, sometime serious.

But yeah, I guess I'm just a tool polisher with a microscope with nothing better to do than inspect tools and complain needlessly

I've had some obviously faulty hand tools come through my door (yeah, SK you're included here) and they go right back, I dont care who makes them or where they're made...

Why should I or anyone settle for inferior possibly dangerous tools??? Makes no sense.

 

[Astro_Pneumatic_Tools]

And, as I am sure you are aware (being in the manufacturing business), all manufacturers have their "off days". One or two botched items does not a "bad" manufacturer make.

Absolutely. I'm not grouping anyone in as being a poor manufacturer (obviously, since I threw us in there too as someone it happens to). I'm appealing to the users to hold us all to a higher standard. If we don't hear about those 1-5 in 100, we may never see them.

And, of course I'm talking about impact sockets here with visual defects. Not busting out the calipers to measure. And chrome sockets, we don't even play in that arena - so I'll differ to those who know much better than I.

 

[WhiffySpark]

If SK made every tool their prices would most likely be closer to/equal to Snap On to cover all the over head.

Their prices are so close to snapon I'd rather pay a little more and get an easy warranty. I was looking at x frames today they were $320 that's not that far from flank drives on promo

 

[bob15]

To each your own on the off-set broaching. I'm not going to argue, but as I said before I would still use it and I highly doubt even an impact tool or socket failure would occur. If you choose not to so be it.

Or, you can send those "bad" tools to me and let me use and test them and see if they will prematurely fail.

 

[bob15]

Their prices are so close to snapon I'd rather pay a little more and get an easy warranty. I was looking at x frames today they were $320 that's not that far from flank drives on promo

You're kidding right??

Combo sets:
SK combo wrench set 15 pc (item # 86255): $ 154
Snap On 11 pc wrench set (oex711B): $ 485

Ratcheting sets:
SK x-frame 7 pc (item # 80049) $ 124.99
Snap On (SOXRR707): $ 348.00

So close........

SK or Snap On for a warranty.....on par

 

[WhiffySpark]

You're kidding right??

Combo sets:
SK combo wrench set 15 pc (item # 86255): $ 154
Snap On 11 pc wrench set (oex711B): $ 485

Ratcheting sets:
SK x-frame 7 pc (item # 80049) $ 124.99
Snap On (SOXRR707): $ 348.00

So close........

SK or Snap On for a warranty.....on par

Yeah ratcheting x frames for $320 in our catalog. Maybe we're getting raked over the coals.

You can buy both metric and sae combos off the truck for $500 ish. And no sk and snapon warranty isn't the same for a professional user

 

[LB-1911]

Yeah ratcheting x frames for $320 in our catalog. Maybe we're getting raked over the coals.

You can buy both metric and sae combos off the truck for $500 ish.

Is this the set that is $320 in your catalog?

SK Hand Tool 80019 - X-Frame Ratcheting Wrench Set 12 pc 8-19mm

 

[bob15]

Forgot to add the SK's prices were just taken off of amazon. Probably could get them cheaper elsewhere.

And how exactly do their warranty's differ?

And the 80019 set is $223 on amazon

 

[WhiffySpark]

Is this the set that is $320 in your catalog?

SK Hand Tool 80019 - X-Frame Ratcheting Wrench Set 12 pc 8-19mm

I think so I'll post it tomorrow

 

[WhiffySpark]

Forgot to add the SK's prices were just taken off of amazon. Probably could get them cheaper elsewhere.

And how exactly do their warranty's differ?

And the 80019 set is $223 on amazon

When's the last time you had an sk truck visit?

 

[Adam.C]

I can think of a dozen things I would do at the helm of a tool company. X frame would be last on that list. I just don't understand SK or why they think they will still exist in 5 years.

 

[MShaw]

I have to wonder how SK is making their tools today. I am looking at SK Lectrolite wrenches I bought in the late 50s. The open ends were machined with a circular milling cutter rather than broaching them like everyone else. In the picture the wrench in the back has "criss cross" machining marks typical of those left by a circular milling cutter while the Husky wrench from approximately the same era shows straight tool marks perpendicular to the wrench face which is indicative of broaching.

I would appreciate it someone would look at a later S K open end and let me know what they see.

Sorry for the side track but I did not want to start a new thread just for this.

 

[bob15]

When's the last time you had an sk truck visit?

And when was the last time a Snap On truck showed up at an industrial factory or an engineering center? Never. Snap On tools isn't just sold off trucks and used in garages. Industry uses their (snappy) tools and trucks don't go to those places.....and many wouldn't be allowed due to security anyways.

Tools are purchased through a PO and replaced via a phone call when broken. No different if they are SK, Snap On or Proto.

 

[jakemac]

When's the last time you had an sk truck visit?

For a shop that's on a route, it might make sense.
But, when was the last time you had a tool truck driver stop at your house to check in ?

Truck brands may be justifiable for a professional with an account and reliable service. But make little sense for a homeowner that still wants quality tools.

 

[WhiffySpark]

For a shop that's on a route, it might make sense.
But, when was the last time you had a tool truck driver stop at your house to check in ?

Truck brands may be justifiable for a professional with an account and reliable service. But make little sense for a homeowner that still wants quality tools.

That's exactly what I said. For a professional mechanic it's worth the extra money

And if you really want to go there, my driver will stop by my house whenever I ask him too. Hell I go to his house every Monday

 

[cliftonbros89]

Tool trucks don't always work for the farm either. I had a Snap On driver. I could maybe get him once every two months. I currently have a Matco guy. I haven't got him to swing by once. But I'll still buy tools. Just like I'll buy SK stuff.

Not to mention, when it comes to SK tools majority of people purchase sockets, wrenches, ratchets. That's about it for the most part. So chances is are if something does break it'll be something pretty common that, if you're someone who spends a lot of here, you're going to have another similar wrench, socket or ratchet laying around that you can use to get the job done.

Sure if you break a socket it may take 5 days for it to get there. But SK customer service has always been awesome. Plus I've had Tool truck stuff that the tool truck guy didn't have on hand. Guess what had to wait 6 days for that too. There's really not a lot of difference unless it's **** from a big box store. In which case it's going to usually be **** anyway.

As far as people's complaints about quality control go, as I stated earlier in the thread, I never had a complaint about SK stuff. All tool companies have their flaws. We've seen a lot of it. I have a lot of different brands and as I also said earlier the company I've had the most problems with quality control has been Snap On. But it hasn't made me quit buying it. It's just a flaw. I mean think about how many of these things are being made a day. It happens. Maybe some of you are getting ripped off by some knock off stuff.

As far as being available. Not everyone has a Grainger any where close. Plus, have you seen their prices on stuff? Crazy! I bought an SK 3/4" set from HJE at the beginning of the year. They were about half of what the likes of places like Grainger wanted for the exact same set.

But when it comes down to it everyone likes what they like. If you like SK, great. If you don't, that's fine to. But all the brand complaining on GJ can get a little old sometimes.

 

[MShaw]

The Snap On truck that I bought from in the late 1950s had the East Hartford, Ct. plant of Pratt & Whitney aircraft as one of his accounts. By the time I went to work for my last employer in 1990 we bought Snap on from an industrial representative. The method of servicing industrial plants changed between 1958 and 1990 based on a statistically flawed sample of one occurrence.

 

[rice rocket]

If you have access to a Snap-On industrial account, the prices are much lower, some by nearly 50% depending on your volume, but that's the difference in service model.

 

[1982fxr]

Some of the posts in this thread--I mean not a single one of us on here has any idea how good or bad SK is doing on the business end of things. We don't know what kind of contracts or deals they have or with who or where since Idesl took over. Not a single clue. At all.

Except SK Eric.

It's like the panic about Western Forge when craftsman started going china. Last I read ideal said when they bought Western Forge they planned on that happening and haven't had a single layoff or anything because of it.

In cases like Sears sure that's different. As far as private companies we have no clue.

Ok that's my two cents for this one. Peace out

 

[jd_1138]

SK has a nice niche -- professional grade tools for mechanics, machinists, industrial applications but for less $$$ than Snap-On/Mac, etc..

Also, a lot of DIY'ers who appreciate quality tools buy them, as well. 50% of my tools are SK, and I am just a DIY'er.

 

[vssjim]

I have bought tools from everybody for over forty years and had great service from all of them and poor service from all of them depending on the person you dealt with at the time. I am a big fan of the Ideal company and what they are trying to do with SK Western Forge Pratt and Read and other companies. They are putting their money where others put their mouths. Thanks for the effort and money you have spent and I own Sk tools from the seventies all the way to today and love the X frame wrenches over the other ratcheting wrenches I own. More power to ya and Thanks Again for investing in America with American workers and steel to rebuild Sk tools.

 

[1950mercury]

^ That may very well be true in the case of the impact sockets, but on a chromed socket (particularly on smaller drive sizes, which is where I see more of the "off-center" issue: tiny 1/4" drive 3/16" and 7/32" 6-points), what difference is it going to make? You're not applying massive amounts of torque to tiny fasteners like that.
I probably have at least 20 brands - maybe more - of different socket sets, and invariably I run into one that might be punched off center a hair. (And I'm talking "hair" here, as in chruler.com) - not even a millimeter. As noted above, it doesn't make the socket not work at the end of a hand ratchet.
It's just fussy for the sake of fussy.
Almost as silly as the guys who used to take the 3/8" drive extensions off the tool board and roll them across a piece of glass to check "straightness" - if you're driving it with a hand ratchet, what difference does it make?

Impacts: different ball of wax, granted.

And, as I am sure you are aware (being in the manufacturing business), all manufacturers have their "off days". One or two botched items does not a "bad" manufacturer make.

So you are saying if you bought a new set for the retail price you would not complain. I call bs. It would be different if you got them used dirt cheap. I think you drink to much green koolaid

 

[Empty Pockets]

I have tools from just about every manufacturer under the sun. I recently had to warranty 2 sockets that came to me (broken) through my dad's estate.

The prompt and efficient way they handled the exchange justified my purchase of 2 of their 3/8 drive socket sets from HJE to replace my Craftsman RP ratchets. The sets are GREAT. As I upgrade or replace other tools, SK will be in the running

 

[TheGrooveking]

I started buying SK in 1972 and pretty much have almost everything they sell, as to chrome their chrome now is equal to Wrights and in my opinion better than Proto and Armstrong. Since Ideal bought them and built the new facility they are a role model of what an American owned and ran company should be. I am greatful they are still around and if they had a tool truck servicing my facilities Matco would probably be gone.

TheGrooveking

 

[B_Bimmer]

If you like SK, great. If you don't, that's fine to. But all the brand complaining on GJ can get a little old sometimes.

That's some true wordage right there. Between that and the toptul tool polishers fan club thread hijackers this place is less interesting every day.

 

[PJNJ]

I can think of a dozen things I would do at the helm of a tool company. X frame would be last on that list. I just don't understand SK or why they think they will still exist in 5 years.

It wouldn't be a good SK thread without Adam C.'s pronouncements about how he could run the company better or his predictions about the imminent demise of SK.

As for quality control issues, I decided to put my money where my mouth was this year. I have liked SK since I got a SK Wayne 1/4 set in the late 60's as a gift. I bought more sockets and extensions in the 70's. So to see how they are doing now, I decided to treat myself to an upgrade to my USA Cman sockets this year. I bought the 91848 1/4 set this May for $135.20 with free shipping. Because of GJ, I looked those sockets over like I have never before. No chrome problems, off-center broaching, sloppy broaching, missing detents, or ID stamping problems. Just some anti-corrosion paint on the outside of some (doesn't bother me - it'll wear off with USE). So then I bought the 94549 3/8 set for $164.82 f/s. Again, no problems after the microscope. Though I wish the 3/8 ratchet had more than 40 teeth. And the backdrag is lighter on the new ratchets than my pre-Ideal SK ratchets. And after buying those and being satisfied, I bought the 1/2 flex ratchet 42472 for $74.99 f/s. Great heavy duty ratchet with great chrome.

So some people don't like SK. Some people, like me, do. But I am not a Green Koolaid drinker. I also like Snap On, Proto, Wright, older Mac, Gearwrench (Taiwan), Armstrong locking ratchets and full polish wrenches and older Cman USA (not the ratchets however) among other brands. I'd like to get some Koken, Toptul, Tekton and Stahlwhille to try out. To each their own.

As for their core user focus, I don't think I or anyone on this board can answer that. You'd have to talk to their marketing dept. for that. As for how they are doing, I would have to think pretty well as they have built a brand new facility for SK recently.

 

[casestudies]

I bought SK's 3/8" drive impact socket set. Had one socket that the end wasn't machined correctly. Called HJE and they took care of it; SK sent a new 14mm deep socket directly to my door. I then bought a 3/8" socket set about a year ago to replace some imported Craftsman I bought when I needed a set in the middle of a repair. Love the SK chrome set! The impact set is great too; I'd love to add their 1/2" impact set. Have been adding new (and used when I see it) SK ever since. Just use it for DIY at home, but it's a pleasure to use, USA made, and good quality. A great alternative now that Craftsman has been outsourced and the quality has tanked. I love the direction Ideal has taken the brand. Just wish stores would sell it so it was more easily accessible locally and more people would be exposed to it, but then again, stores sell what sells, and most only look at the cost, not what the items they're buying stand for. SK +1

 

[Roberts210]

Need they say more? Nope!
I love mine.

 

[Chief919]

SK Does a whole lot of military contract stuff also. Since US Military purchases have to be made in the USA that limits the number of eligible suppliers, and SK gets a pretty sizable chunk of that.

Probably 80% of the sockets I was issued over 23+ years were SK, as were most of the wrenches.

 

[four.cycle]

So you are saying if you bought a new set for the retail price you would not complain. I call bs. It would be different if you got them used dirt cheap. I think you drink to much green koolaid

Well, first of all, I would not pay full retail for new stuff. I bought all of my S-K kits online through Ebay - used - and was quite pleased with what I received, in spite of a couple of the tiny sockets being less than what some would consider "perfect". (Those being 1/4" drive 3/16" or 7/32" - I can't recall now without going out and digging out those sets.)
The only "new" I ever paid retail for was a little bit of Snap-on 1/4" drive I bought off a truck, and (paying Snap-on price) I expected no less than perfect - at those prices I believe that's a reasonable expectation.

I don't want to pop your bubble, but I'm not drinking any green Kool-Aid - S-K is just one of many brands of stuff I have, and among them it's one of the best in regard to fit and finish.

Absolutely. I'm not grouping anyone in as being a poor manufacturer (obviously, since I threw us in there too as someone it happens to). I'm appealing to the users to hold us all to a higher standard. If we don't hear about those 1-5 in 100, we may never see them.

I didn't think you were - my comment wasn't directly solely at you, but rather those who have a negative opinion about any manufacturer based on one or two isolated instances of QC failure.
They all have failures now and then; stuff slips by. It's not the end of the world. We used to laugh when we'd open up a box of new sockets and pull one out that hadn't been broached. But those were very rare instances in the big picture - maybe one out of several thousand pieces.
I think what some people here don't understand is how fast a production line moves. At the Carter plant in St. Louis each worker on the line had another Thermo-Quad coming at them about every 5 seconds; just time enough for them to insert one screw and secure it with an air-powered driver. It is not reasonable to expect that every single unit is going to be 100% perfect coming off the line.
While it's admirable (and desirable) to strive for perfection, in the real world we're lucky to hit 99%.

The point being that one (or two or three) mis-punched widgets doesn't is not indicative of a total failure of quality control; even the best of them make some hilarious blunders. I could tell you stories all day long about brand-new merchandise received from manufacturers where stuff that should have been clearly obvious slipped by and got shipped out, but I don't think there's enough space here.

 

[67King]

Sheesh, there looks like some Chevy/Ford balderdash going on in here. Meaning some BS, and I have to call it like I see it. Real world pricing, SK is about 1/4th to 1/3rd the cost of SNap-On. And I'm sorry I'm calling BS on a 33% defective rate getting out the door, too. Sure I'm sure that some get by, but not 1 out of 3. And 50% off of Snap On? If anyone can do that, then they won't be looking at SK anyway. That's even more than their initial one time student discount. I'm sorry, I just don't believe that. Sorry dude, that's not personal, but it just reads like the exaggerations keep getting thicker because you have to slam the brand that isn't yours, rather than acknowledge there is a reason they have customers. One claim is credible, two is questionable, but all three are a freakin' conclusion.

On the flipside......I won't let SK (or anyone else, for that matter) try to say off-center broaching is no big deal. Even if the tool can be made like that and never experience a single failure, it means two things. One is that the QC in the factory is unacceptable. Some fixture or something needs to be recalibrated (I don't know how it works, exactly) or set up properly or something. Second, if the off center is adequate for the tool to survive its intended purposes, then that means the tool is too thick. Its highest stress point will be at the thinnest point, and if one corner is thinner than the others and can survive, that means all 6 corners can be that thin. And I will always prefer the lightest, thinnest tool (that is well enough made to do the job). That's the kind of stuff that you expect from the Wally World MIC kind of junk where it is cheaper to just overbuild something to allow for **** QC than to build it right. I'm sorry, but I hold SK to a higher standard, and I won't excuse that.

 

[Loscaldazar]

Some of the posts in this thread--I mean not a single one of us on here has any idea how good or bad SK is doing on the business end of things. We don't know what kind of contracts or deals they have or with who or where since Idesl took over. Not a single clue. At all.

Except SK Eric.

It's like the panic about Western Forge when craftsman started going china. Last I read ideal said when they bought Western Forge they planned on that happening and haven't had a single layoff or anything because of it.

In cases like Sears sure that's different. As far as private companies we have no clue.

Ok that's my two cents for this one. Peace out

If the fact that SK is doubling the size of their plant only a few years after reopening for business, they are probably doing pretty well

 

[Roberts210]

Sheesh, there looks like some ........ BS, and I have to call it like I see it. Real world pricing, SK is about 1/4th to 1/3rd the cost of SNap-On. And I'm sorry I'm calling BS on a 33% defective rate getting out the door, too.

I have over 100 S-K tools if you include sockets and wrenches. If the 1/3 defective rate was accurate you would expect for 33 of my S-K tools to be defective. To date... since 1978.... the number of my S-K tools that have failed, broken or had bad chrome is..... ZERO.

 

[shockwave]

Sk is geared more for economically USA quality with mechanics and some industrial usually 3rd party trucks that don't sell a single brand
They used to warranty off the trucks but now you hav to send them in on all retailers and they are great tools but not as established as say cornwell since getting out of bankruptcy

And replacement for USA craftsman sk or wright cannot with craftsman prices

 

[Nelson58]

I still like the SK tools, particularly the socket sets, and would like to purchase a 1/2 socket set, and perhaps a new 3/8" socket set.

I would prefer the NOS.

Anyone know where I might be able to get those?

 

[four.cycle]

^ yeah there was just one listed on Ebay yesterday or day before... 3/8" drive SAE set, as I recall... still has the plastic shrink-wrap over the tools. older green steel box. I posted it in the "Ebay hot deal" thread.

> 1/2" drive SAE sets are (overall) not selling on Ebay. buyer's market. I'm seeing 1/2" drive SAE Indestro sets (sockets, ratchet, & extension) go for $20-$25 bucks (used, in good condition.) might be worth considering - some of the stuff listed as "used" looks almost new.

 

[Nelson58]

I'd love a 1/2 " set. Can you point me to a link please?

 

[Adam.C]

It wouldn't be a good SK thread without Adam C.'s pronouncements about how he could run the company better or his predictions about the imminent demise of SK.

I guess this company just offends my sensibilities. They touch a nerve with me in ways few companies do.

1) they bought the brand name, not the company. They retained no personnel or equipment. They were a start up. So don't talk about SKs 100 year legacy. That has nothing to do with a Ideal, a company known only for cheap builder grade hardware and craftsman clear handle screwdrivers

2) don't brag about superkrome then ship tools with imperfect chrome, then make out like people are seeing things. Is it paint? Is it a Chrome? Just tell us the truth and let us get behind you. It's a start up. They started from scratch in 2010. There are gonna be bumps in the road.

3) x-wrench is a brilliant solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Anyone ever sheared the head off a wrench? We don't need that truss thing. Make them longer, thinner, something, anything useful. Don't tell me this is innovation. Go ask mechanics what they need.

I guess I read the x wrench, the belief that they can buy a brand name and make tools better than the company that just went bankrupt, as arrogant management. And Tory seem willing to play loose and fast with facts.

Ideal is a family business (please don't call it "blue collar", I call it hereditary wealth and privilege, that's very different, in fact the opposite of blue collar. I grew up in a blue collar family) so we don't know whether they are hemoraging money or not. And we may never know. We know they have a new CEO for SK. Can't read anything into that.

For the record, I've seen a lot of military tool boxes and I've never seen an SK tool. Not saying they aren't out there. USAF uses Snap On. Last USMC box I saw was Proto.

Sorry if this touches a nerve with you, I'm just saying why I feel the way I do. Merry Christmas.

 

[four.cycle]

Nelson:

okay, I've got my wires crossed again. (no big surprise, right?)

the S-K set in the shrink wrap was a 1/4" drive set:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/S-K-TOOLS-2...:g:obUAAOSw44BYPM1X&item=112243591455&vxp=mtr

only thing I'm seeing coming up for NEW S-K 1/2" drive is:
a set of SAE deep-wells:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/S-K-Tools-8...:g:iKMAAOSw44BYMhTp&item=152325523439&vxp=mtr

... if you go with "used", prices drop considerably:

S-K:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SK-Hand-Too...:g:kpcAAOSwal5YLjql&item=262767832155&vxp=mtr

...or for another hundred bucks you can have a new 47-piece set that includes all that plus metric:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SK-Tools-47...:g:sQEAAOSwEzxYXGHA&item=302174191712&vxp=mtr

and two sets of well-used sockets only:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-S-K...888202?hash=item1ebe5e940a:g:o3wAAOSw6DtYXVcz

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-S-k...385097?hash=item360eabf7c9:g:nlIAAOSw2xRYUV96

... best I can do on short notice.