Snake in the Attic, Now What

[LifeLongWNYer]

Yesterday afternoon I noticed a couple of birds carrying straw up to a pocket where two roofs abut, certainly they'd found access to the attic and were in the process of building a home for themselves. I went and got a ladder, some hardware cloth ( wire screen with about 1/4 - 3/8" openings ) and a staple gun, and started to block off their path. The first time I went up the ladder, I received quite a surprize. The birds weren't the only creatures interested in homesteading in my attic.

There, in the eave trough was a brown snake, about 15-18" long, looking around. I don't know whether he'd climbed the downspout, which has a 12' straight vertical section, then a 15' foot section at a 45* angle, or whether he climbed the clapboards, but he'd certainly made it to the gutter. I suspect he was as surprized to see me, as I was to encounter him, he very quickly raised up, stuck his head into the back of the metal drip edge, ( between the edge of the roof boards and the drip edge ) and went up into the space below the shingles, presumably between the shingles and the roof boards. This is a very old house, built in the 1880's, and the roof boards are (mostly ) pine boards, a real 1 1/4" thick, and rough cut, so there are spaces of varying widths between them. So, because the snake was under the shingle, but above the roof boards, it wouldn't be hard for it to get into the attic. I did not try to grab it, before it disappeared, because (1) I was very surprized to see it, (2) I'd never seen one quite that large around here, and (3) while I've never encountered one HERE, rattlesnakes are common just a dozen, or so, miles south of here. (I've called the NYS DEC for their thoughts, but apparently they are too busy to call back. ). Finally (4), it all happened pretty fast. By the time my brain said "grab that sucker" only about 6" was visible, and that disappeared before I could react.

I have seen snakes in the basement, but they were much smaller ones, and I've left them alone. The foundation is cobblestone and mortar, for me to block all the holes to keep critters out would be tough, parts of the cellar aren't even fully excavated. I know that mice, and snakes, don't need a very large opening to enter, and I am sure that I'd never find all the holes. I ( up to now ) didn't bother the little snakes in the cellar, I figured they kept the field mice under control. BUT, I am not happy with the big guy in the attic, actually my worst fear is that "he" is really a "she" and there will be dozens of little ones appearing soon.

So, what do I do NOW?



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[JRC3]

I've seen many snake skins on roofs and in gutters. I always thought they liked the sun and also the rough shingle to help shed the old skin.

If it weren't venomous I wouldn't worry about it, but if you're positive of it being a common brown snake, that changes things a bit. My guess is more than likely it was just hiding and once the threat was gone it came out and went on with it's day just like it did the hundreds of other days it's been up there looking around the gutter.

I'd look into ways of deterring them. Maybe something like fox urine or something else they are afraid of and avoid. IDK.

 

[kelpaso1]

 

[JRC3]

"I've had it with these motherfrickin snakes on this motherfrickin roof!"

 

[Arkansas COB]

Moth balls.

 

[lakeroadster]

Snake problem? Call Bob "The Mongoose" McEwen

Seriously though.. Short Term Solution: google "snake trap"

Long Term Solution: Obviously there is something in the area that is attracting rodents, or something else, that the snake is eating.

We had a snake problem and ended up it was from bird seed. We'd feed the birds, they'd kick the seed out of the feeder onto the ground, that attracted mice, which attracted snakes.

We stopped feeding the birds, the problem went away.

Anything like that going on at your place?

 

[rlitman]

...but if you're positive of it being a common brown snake, that changes things a bit...

The "common brown snake" is native to Australia and New Guinea. It is NOT naturally found in New York State.

"New York State is home to 17 species of snakes."

Only three of those are venomous, all are fairly uncommon and easily identified by their distinctive patterns. The timber rattler and the massasauga also have rattles.

From the pictures provided in the link I posted, it shouldn't be all that hard to identify what was seen.

FWIW, I get a lot of northern brown snakes. But the biggest ones I see are well under a foot long and can coil up on a silver dollar.

 

[mike93lx]

Yep, time to move.

Seriously though, generally poisonous snakes have a triangular head. I'd keep an eye out for it, but wouldn't worry too much. It will go to food, so set traps if you have mice and try to seal up openings that it could enter by.

 

[jimgood]

Leave it be. If it's up there, it's after the bird eggs, bats or mice. Both are more of a nuisance than that little snake.

 

[lakeroadster]

Moth balls.

http://www.wildlife-removal.com/snakemothballs.html

"Are Mothballs a Good Snake Repellent? NO! Mothballs do not repel snakes! That is a complete myth!"

 

[ZipSnafu]

Find the snake a name and call him family. He will leave when there is no more food present.

 

[sreeb]

All non-venomous snakes are welcome as long as they stay out of the interior of my home.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Thanks for the info, so far, I had a minute and checked in, two comments....

I wrote that it was "a brown snake" not that it was a "Brown Snake". While he/she WAS brown, I don't know that it is of that variety.

Also, I did go to the site mentioned "NY is Home to 17 Species of Snakes" and spent a bit of time yesterday looking over the assortment of suspects. It did not look like any of those. The body was tan/brown and it did have patterns similar to one of the rattlesnakes ( JUST my luck ) BUT in the website pictures, the patterns of the darker colors run into each other and are irregularly shaped and of different sizes. My guy had spots which were oval, each about the same size, and the coloration of the spots did not touch each other.

No bird seed here, I keep them hungry so they eat the bugs. I do not see mice in the cellar, but have bait stations down there, and the bait regularly disappears, so I fill the stations about once a month. I grew up in this house, since the '50's, and have always seen snake skins in the cellar, about once or twice, a year, but never of the size of this snake. Dad always said that a "garden" snake in the cellar keeps the field mice under control, but he NEVER mentioned that when Mom was around. I'm not mentioning this to my wife, if I did, it would be just the snake and me living here.

Thanks for the info so far, keep it coming.


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[ard]

Whatever you do, DO NOT tell the wife.....

 

[AmherstAndy]

Snakes and other critters don't bother me in the wild, but I don't tolerate them in my house. Normally for most pests I would suggest identifying and removing the food supply, hoping they move on to greener pastures, but snakes can go a while between meals (I think), and this one might just be using your attic for shelter. On the other hand, if you know what it's eating, you can use that to bait a trap, although I don't know anything about trapping snakes.

If you can't trap it, you might consider driving it out with some kind of repellent, but this could backfire, driving it deeper into your house. Same applies to sealing off its access; if it's still inside when you do this, it will attempt to locate another path, which might not lead directly to the outside.

If it were me, and I couldn't definitively remove it within a couple of tries, I would call the pros rather than risk making things worse.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Whatever you do, DO NOT tell the wife.....

I'd probably bring it inside to show Mrs. LS6...

Tommy

 

[azcanc]

Get rid of food and snake will go bye bye

 

[Parrothead]

I do not allow critters in my home. Period. I'd do whatever is necessary to insure they would exit and not return.

 

[JRC3]

Leave it be. If it's up there, it's after the bird eggs, bats or mice. Both are more of a than that little snake.

Bats are a nuisance? Bats are fine, they are never seen and they eat like 1/3 of their weight in bugs and mosquitos every day. They are certainly welcome around me. I've even considered a bat house on the back gable end of my garage.

Whatever you do, DO NOT tell the wife.....

This is a smart man right here.

 

[OccupantRJ]

15 to 18 inches is a big snake? Around here, chicken snakes get 5 to 6 feet long and about an inch and three quarters diameter. "Length of a hoe handle" is a common description here.

 

[OccupantRJ]

15 to 18 inches is a big snake? Around here, chicken snakes get 5 to 6 feet long and about an inch and three quarters diameter. "Length of a hoe handle" is a common description here.

 

[BFBOB]

15 to 18 inches is a big snake? Around here, chicken snakes get 5 to 6 feet long and about an inch and three quarters diameter. "Length of a hoe handle" is a common description here.

Same here - Missouri. We get Black Ratsnakes in the 7' range; I have a shed skin that measures 7' 6", and a picture of one with a good size reference (crossing a sidewalk) that I'm sure is well over 8', even though DNR claims they only get up to 7'. Harmless to humans, nonvenomous, they eat rats, mice, gophers, moles, and small rabbits. Good folks to have around.

But, yeah, coming fact to face with ANY snake while up on a ladder is not something I'd enjoy.

 

[Cobra5150]

Found this fresh skin in our crawl space last week. A 15-18" snake ain't nothing.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

I understand about the size that snakes CAN get, and that is fine in the south. While that isn't the largest one I've ever seen around here, it is much larger than most of the ones than I run into. I didn't say much about the size of it in my posts, but I'm not happy with a snake of any size in the attic. IF that one dropped out if the ceiling, into the house, and in front of my wife, I would be a widower. If she found out that I knew about it before hand, she would be a widow! The snake and I would would both be goners.



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[Voi]

Also, I did go to the site mentioned "NY is Home to 17 Species of Snakes" and spent a bit of time yesterday looking over the assortment of suspects. It did not look like any of those. The body was tan/brown and it did have patterns similar to one of the rattlesnakes ( JUST my luck ) BUT in the website pictures, the patterns of the darker colors run into each other and are irregularly shaped and of different sizes. My guy had spots which were oval, each about the same size, and the coloration of the spots did not touch each other.

The milk snake pictured in that article is not really indicative of what the milk snakes in New York look like.

Did it look anything like this?

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Yup, that looks more like it than any of the pictures on the "17 species" website. Thanks, Voi, great help.

Still nothing from the Dept of Environmental Conservation, they are probably more worried about where to set up roadblocks this fall, during hunting season.

As an update, while I have not sat and consistently watched the gutter and drip edge area, since this happened, but I have made it a point to walk by the spot as often as possible. The birds are pissed at the hardware cloth, but no sign of the snake, at all. Wonder if he moved on, or is still inside and has set up housekeeping. I would be happy to coexist with him, as long as he stays in the cellar and yard.

PS: Wife is still unknowing, I might have dodged a bullet.



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[PassnThru]

The milk snake pictured in that article is not really indicative of what the milk snakes in New York look like.

I've often found that to be a problem. Even within the same family there are so many color and pattern variations. It helps to just concentrate on identifying the few venomous ones out there. At the end of the day, if you care that's the only thing that's important.

 

[nelstomlinson]

Move to Ireland. Or the Arctic. No snakes in either place.

 

[southalabama]

I was once in the ER for something. On the wall was a snake chart to help doctors and patients identify snakes. Well the printer was off that day. All the snakes were shades of blue. I asked the doctor if he ever saw any blue snakes or if it was for the Smurfs. He didn't see any humor in it.

Finding snake skins in the crawl space is somewhat unnerving. Been there done that at I spent the rest of the trip under the house looking at every shadow.

 

[58Yeoman]

Whatever you do, DO NOT tell the wife.....

HAHA...my wife would be going up there and getting it, not me. She is a city girl, and really likes wildlife. She picked up a 3' snake near the shop one day, and I told her that she doesn't know what kind it was. She didn't care.

I got the last laugh last year when she was 'looking' at a large praying mantis by the driveway. It bit her finger. Who knew that a praying mantis would bite.

 

[KEH]

Snake was probably after the birds. If they go away, it will probably go away. This does not mean that there are not other snakes in the attic or the rest of the house. I had pest control out to look at possible snake entry points. My wife doesn't like snakes, either, so I feel your pain. This was back in the fall after cool weather had come. The professional pest control guy told me he found a snake trying to get in the crawl space door, he didn't do anything about it. I went and found a small black snake trying to get in a crack at the door framing and pulled it out by the tail, then threw it into the woods. I do NOT handle snakes, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Wife pointed out that he probably came back later.

KEH

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Move to Ireland. Or the Arctic. No snakes in either place.

Hawaii. Much better choice IMO...

Tommy

 

[dthor68]

Yesterday afternoon I noticed a couple of birds carrying straw up to a pocket where two roofs abut, certainly they'd found access to the attic and were in the process of building a home for themselves. I went and got a ladder, some hardware cloth ( wire screen with about 1/4 - 3/8" openings ) and a staple gun, and started to block off their path. The first time I went up the ladder, I received quite a surprize. The birds weren't the only creatures interested in homesteading in my attic.

There, in the eave trough was a brown snake, about 15-18" long, looking around. I don't know whether he'd climbed the downspout, which has a 12' straight vertical section, then a 15' foot section at a 45* angle, or whether he climbed the clapboards, but he'd certainly made it to the gutter. I suspect he was as surprized to see me, as I was to encounter him, he very quickly raised up, stuck his head into the back of the metal drip edge, ( between the edge of the roof boards and the drip edge ) and went up into the space below the shingles, presumably between the shingles and the roof boards. This is a very old house, built in the 1880's, and the roof boards are (mostly ) pine boards, a real 1 1/4" thick, and rough cut, so there are spaces of varying widths between them. So, because the snake was under the shingle, but above the roof boards, it wouldn't be hard for it to get into the attic. I did not try to grab it, before it disappeared, because (1) I was very surprized to see it, (2) I'd never seen one quite that large around here, and (3) while I've never encountered one HERE, rattlesnakes are common just a dozen, or so, miles south of here. (I've called the NYS DEC for their thoughts, but apparently they are too busy to call back. ). Finally (4), it all happened pretty fast. By the time my brain said "grab that sucker" only about 6" was visible, and that disappeared before I could react.

I have seen snakes in the basement, but they were much smaller ones, and I've left them alone. The foundation is cobblestone and mortar, for me to block all the holes to keep critters out would be tough, parts of the cellar aren't even fully excavated. I know that mice, and snakes, don't need a very large opening to enter, and I am sure that I'd never find all the holes. I ( up to now ) didn't bother the little snakes in the cellar, I figured they kept the field mice under control. BUT, I am not happy with the big guy in the attic, actually my worst fear is that "he" is really a "she" and there will be dozens of little ones appearing soon.

So, what do I do NOW?



.

You do not need to do anything. Brown Snakes entire diet consist of earthworms and slugs. Sounds like he spent the winter there. He will be going where the food is soon and it is not up there. Brown Snakes can get rather large in the northern part of its range. In SC they rarely get over a foot long. I have seen 3 in my yard since February. One was in my garage, wife nearly stepped on the little thing. Brown Snakes do not bite EVER but I still would not upset his plans and just leave him be. Here is the little fellow that was in my garage. When I got done photographing him, I put him back where I found him, in my garage.https://scontent-atl3-1.**.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30742550_10214274748595528_1345538375376961536_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=5f4a46a80ca660929a08c4d9b4a8eee0&oe=5B963277

 

[dthor68]

Yup, that looks more like it than any of the pictures on the "17 species" website. Thanks, Voi, great help.

Still nothing from the Dept of Environmental Conservation, they are probably more worried about where to set up roadblocks this fall, during hunting season.

As an update, while I have not sat and consistently watched the gutter and drip edge area, since this happened, but I have made it a point to walk by the spot as often as possible. The birds are pissed at the hardware cloth, but no sign of the snake, at all. Wonder if he moved on, or is still inside and has set up housekeeping. I would be happy to coexist with him, as long as he stays in the cellar and yard.

PS: Wife is still unknowing, I might have dodged a bullet.



.

I thought you said Brown Snake? That changes everything, makes much more sense too since brown snakes are not much on climbing. Niether are milk snakes.

There is one snake that loves to climb and its young look very much like that milk snake. Black Rat Snake, and they are found in Rochester NY. Actually having a rat snake living in your attic is a blessing. They will feed on rats, mice, birds, bird eggs and when they get big, squirrels. 3 of those animals burn houses down chewing on electrical wire, especially old houses. Also, black rat snakes are not much on biting, generally all they will do is poop on you. Now Texas Rat Snakes are down right nasty mean. Can not believe they are related.

So did it look like this? It takes about 3 years for them to turn black.
https://scontent-atl3-1.**.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12191580_10206791874528353_2703940591661031864_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=0e9decb7b30b2d31b10a0f41a77f632b&oe=5B557C50

 

[TractorJeff]

Based on the ovals, it was a "Milk Snake"!
Grew up south of Buffalo, we left them alone as they were supposed to be mousers.
Hate to tell you but I have seen them longer!
Anyways, chances are a bird grabbed him in some next material and dropped him on the roof. He'll come down after he looks for food.
No Worries!

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Thanks DThor68, your second picture is pretty close, but as I recall, the spots were more oval and regular than the spots on that guy.

I don't plan to DO anything to him/her, but I would like to keep it out of the attic. The yard, and the cellar are fine places for him, the field mice should keep it well fed. However, I would greatly prefer that the baby snakes come into this world in the cellar, or the yard, I'd hate to see them dropping out of the ceiling!

TJeff, I am not sure that I would agree about a bird carrying him up to the eaves, the birds were struggling with loads of straw, he looked to be more than something that a small bird could carry. Anyway, I've blocked off the spot were the birds were constructing a nest, and they've moved on. Hopefully, he has had enough excitement and moved to a more subdued environment.

Thank to all for the input,



.

 

[dthor68]

Thanks DThor68, your second picture is pretty close, but as I recall, the spots were more oval and regular than the spots on that guy.

I don't plan to DO anything to him/her, but I would like to keep it out of the attic. The yard, and the cellar are fine places for him, the field mice should keep it well fed. However, I would greatly prefer that the baby snakes come into this world in the cellar, or the yard, I'd hate to see them dropping out of the ceiling!

TJeff, I am not sure that I would agree about a bird carrying him up to the eaves, the birds were struggling with loads of straw, he looked to be more than something that a small bird could carry. Anyway, I've blocked off the spot were the birds were constructing a nest, and they've moved on. Hopefully, he has had enough excitement and moved to a more subdued environment.

Thank to all for the input,



.

Yeah, that rat snake is from SC. There are some differences between NY and SC Black Rat Snakes. Chances are, they have been in your attic for years. And, the chance that they enter your house are slim. As soon as it gets warm they will leave anyway and return back in the fall. Attics in summer are way to hot for any snake. They make a great place to spend the winter. Regardless, live and let live. If you can manage to get a photo, I can tell you what it is. I have been catching snakes since I was 6. Caught my first venomous snake at 11 (Broad-banded Copperhead-TX) In fact, caught 2 Timber Rattlesnakes last Monday in upstate SC. They are not near as bad as people make them out to be.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Okay, DThor, I'll keep the phone handy and if I see him again, I'll get a portrait.

Interesting that you think it might have been in the attic for years. While I've found many shed skins hanging in various parts of the cellar, ( I've been here since the 50's ) I've never found one in the attic.

FYI, and if it makes a difference, that part of the attic has precious little insulation, if he is wintering there, he is freezing his little ( you know what ) off. The cellar, on the other hand, is pretty much 50-55 degrees, year around.

I think one thing which still amazes me is that he went up BEHIND the drip edge, which means he was between the roof boards and the bottom of the shingles. There isn't a lot of space between them.

DKRoth.... am south of the city, not far from the Thruway and 390 intersection.

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[dthor68]

Okay, DThor, I'll keep the phone handy and if I see him again, I'll get a portrait.

Interesting that you think it might have been in the attic for years. While I've found many shed skins hanging in various parts of the cellar, ( I've been here since the 50's ) I've never found one in the attic.

FYI, and if it makes a difference, that part of the attic has precious little insulation, if he is wintering there, he is freezing his little ( you know what ) off. The cellar, on the other hand, is pretty much 50-55 degrees, year around.

I think one thing which still amazes me is that he went up BEHIND the drip edge, which means he was between the roof boards and the bottom of the shingles. There isn't a lot of space between them.

DKRoth.... am south of the city, not far from the Thruway and 390 intersection.

.

Sorry, I am talking in general. Whether it is a rat snake or milk snake you said it was small, most likely born last summer/fall. Not even a year old. No way it could have been in your attic for years. All I was saying if it is a rat snake, the parents probably have been in your attic a time or two over many years. Snakes can frequently overwinter in attics and cellars, even in NY. They can easily get enough heat just laying on sheetrock/plaster ceiling. They are not active, they are hibernating. Personally, would never expect to find a milk snake in an attic. Milk snakes spend most of their time underground in rodent burrows. They surface every now and then, especially in spring. I was hoping to make you feel better about the situation, dont think I am. So I will just shut my piehole.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Hey, DThor, absolutely no problem. I really do appreciate your insight, I don't know much about snakes, even after living in a rural ( okay, SEMI-rural ) area all my life, so it is good.

I am guessing that most of the snakes I've seen, either in the grass, or the cellar, were Milk Snakes. This is the first one, ever, I've seen that was not in one of those places.

Thanks, take care,


JBP