Snap-On and Williams USA socket comparison

[NedNorton]

I have a good friend that just got into old motorcycles. Hondas. At 42 he's a little late to the tool buying party. His first project we swapped the engine and transmission in a 1974 cb360 in my shop with my tools. Easy first project. (Started on the 3rd kick!) Well, a week later he takes his cheap no name tools out to retighten a few things and calls me asking about buying better tools and did I have any recommendations? He really liked the tools we used in the shop, my Snap-On tools, but the Snap-On prices made him do a double take. He's not using these everyday.

I thought about recommending Williams USA but had no first hand experience so, before I went and recommended a tool line, I felt I needed to check them out and compare them to what I know and use.

There have been some things said in other threads about hardness, polish, chrome thickness etc. I'll let you guys see the photos and decide for yourselves. 17mm shallow, 8mm deep

All I can say is that to my eyes and hands, they are the same minus the stamping. My buddy bought shallow and deep metric sets. Prices are 1/3 the Snap-On equivalent. They are a bargain and get my highest recommendation.

My observations are for the USA made sockets only.

Maybe this will be of some help to some of the new guys starting out so they can take some of that money saved and put it to another use.

Cheers,
Chris

 

[HaroRider]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98248

Interesting thread I found.
Hopefully is answers a question or two.

Either way I think Williams is plenty good for a DIY, even USA Craftsman stuff (minus the warranty..)

 

[NedNorton]

Thanks for the link. I have an entire drawer full of Snap-On sockets. I paid dearly for them. They are great tools and I never regret those tool purchases. Over the last 20+ years they have worked, and worked hard.

Like I said, folks will debate about the rockwell hardness, polish, chrome thickness etc. I can't speak for the rest of the line but I cannot tell a difference between the USA made Williams sockets and my Snap-On. I'll let you know how they fair over the next month but I'm guessing that they are just fine for Pro/Everyday use. I would put them in a different league than USA made craftsman. Not that USA Craftsman are bad (don't want to get into a Snap-On Craftsman discussion) but these have the look, feel and fastener fit of my Snap-On sockets. That makes them a very good socket at a very good price.

Cheers-

 

[CWP1616L]

Thanks for posting the pictures.

 

[NedNorton]

Happy to do it. Sorry to all for the huge sized pictures. Tapatalk has changed and doesn't let you resize before posting (or I haven't figured out how to do it).

I thought there maybe some guys out there wondering about the comparison. With all the new Techs going into debt just to get the basics it may help. I would happily use the Williams USA sockets all day, everyday. There are some things that Snap-On sells that are not in the Williams line socket wise. Mid-depth are the one that I think of first. You have to go Snap-On to get those.

I would be interested in seeing more comparisons of the two brands across product lines. There are lots of great tools out there and the more info the better. Not that Snap-On is the holly grail of tools but, it is a good reference point for comparing other tools.

In addition to the USA sockets I picked up the import versions also. They are fine but not up to the USA stuff design wise (personal preference YMMV). Most notably the deep sockets. They are "fat" for most of their length and much longer. I could see this being an issue in some cases. They look similar to the Craftsman deep sockets.

Anyway... I hop that this helps. The Williams stuff was 48% off list at the online retailer I got them from. Again, a bargain on a great socket.

Cheers-

 

[Fedwrench]

To me the only real differences between the two are: the wider range of sizes, shapes, and lengths snap on offers over williams and marketing. Williams are aimed towards the industrial user and not hawked by 2500 or so mobile distributors that offer truck to you service and allow you to earn with your tools as you pay them off in weekly payments for the rest of your life.
A great source for Williams made tools is www.toolsdelivered.com

 

[cgv69]

All I can say is that to my eyes and hands, they are the same minus the stamping.

I would agree with that. A lot of people want to speculate that some of the details that can't be easily seen (quality of the chrome, RC hardness or whatever) must be inferior because of the price but that's all that is, speculation. I've never seen anybody do any real scientific tests between the 2. Personally I think most of the speculation comes from not wanting to know how overpriced their SO labeled sockets were.

I own (or have owned) sockets from many different companies including SO, MAC, SK, Wright, Craftsman and IMO, the USA made Williams socks are the best deal going for made in the US sockets. ***** that you can't go to the local store and buy them but IMO, when you compare the quality and price compared to what you probably can get locally, I think they are worth the inconvenience.

If you want an even better deal and the convenience of local shopping, Lowe's Kobolt sockets are a great deal IMO. They are not made in the USA and their selection is limited but they are very good quality sockets that are dirt cheap when you find them on sale.

 

[Sebastien]

did anyone ever compared blue point versus william, I know that blue point is made overseas? but what would you go for between those 2?

 

[wornoutoldman]

did anyone ever compared blue point versus william, I know that blue point is made overseas? but what would you go for between those 2?

The BP are of Taiwanese manufacture. For similiar money I'd get the US Williams.

 

[woody 73]

Do the Williams sockets all come from the USA or do they also come from places like Taiwan?

 

[wornoutoldman]

Do the Williams sockets all come from the USA or do they also come from places like Taiwan?

Both. You need to know what you are purchasing if COO matters to you.

 

[woody 73]

Any special #'s or letters type of code that would indicate coo when placing an order for their sockets? Like xxx123 or 123 or just ***.

 

[rsanter]

Good to know
My SO rep will handle both no problem so if I need another set I may just get the Williams

Bob

 

[BajaBound]

I absolutely love my usa williams supercombos.

 

[niferous]

My company is a Williams distributor and I met with my Williams manufacturer rep today and asked him about this. I got some good information.

There are two differences between the Williams and the Snap-On besides the stamp.

The Snap-On sockets and wrenches are heat treated higher than the Williams so they are harder. He said that the difference is minimal but it is there. This only applies to the hand sockets though. The impact sockets are both heat treated to the same hardness, which is less than the hand sockets.

The other difference is in the broaching process, which is how they cut the hex, 12-point, etc pattern in sockets and wrenches. The Snap-On process is a little tighter than the Williams process so the wrench or socket will engage the head of the fastener in the same way every time.

The wrenches in the front are Snap-Ons, in the middle are other brands, and in the back are Williams. So the Snap-Ons are perfectly aligned and the Williams are just a tad off. I don't know what the other brands are. This was at a Snap-On show so I'm going to guess other tool truck guys and maybe Craftsman.

 

[Mooniac]

I've got a set of Williams hard handled screwdrivers and for all intents and purposes they are identical to my c. 1997 set of Snap On screwdrivers. I bought the Williams for the garage and the SO stay at my hangar. Only regret is the Williams are black, and I like Orange or Green so I can find them easier in the workspace...and most importantly not leave them somewhere I can't see easily!

I'm considering adding Williams sockets as well. Thanks for posting the pics/review.

 

[joebachor]

My company is a Williams distributor and I met with my Williams manufacturer rep today and asked him about this. I got some good information.

There are two differences between the Williams and the Snap-On besides the stamp.

The Snap-On sockets and wrenches are heat treated higher than the Williams so they are harder. He said that the difference is minimal but it is there. This only applies to the hand sockets though. The impact sockets are both heat treated to the same hardness, which is less than the hand sockets.

The other difference is in the broaching process, which is how they cut the hex, 12-point, etc pattern in sockets and wrenches. The Snap-On process is a little tighter than the Williams process so the wrench or socket will engage the head of the fastener in the same way every time.

The wrenches in the front are Snap-Ons, in the middle are other brands, and in the back are Williams. So the Snap-Ons are perfectly aligned and the Williams are just a tad off. I don't know what the other brands are. This was at a Snap-On show so I'm going to guess other tool truck guys and maybe Craftsman.

thank you for that.

 

[TwoInch]

My company is a Williams distributor and I met with my Williams manufacturer rep today and asked him about this. I got some good information.

There are two differences between the Williams and the Snap-On besides the stamp.

The Snap-On sockets and wrenches are heat treated higher than the Williams so they are harder. He said that the difference is minimal but it is there. This only applies to the hand sockets though. The impact sockets are both heat treated to the same hardness, which is less than the hand sockets.

The other difference is in the broaching process, which is how they cut the hex, 12-point, etc pattern in sockets and wrenches. The Snap-On process is a little tighter than the Williams process so the wrench or socket will engage the head of the fastener in the same way every time. if you watch the snap on how its made, you can see the williams wrenches being broached on the same machines as the snap on. i say it ******** too.

The wrenches in the front are Snap-Ons, in the middle are other brands, and in the back are Williams. So the Snap-Ons are perfectly aligned and the Williams are just a tad off. I don't know what the other brands are. This was at a Snap-On show so I'm going to guess other tool truck guys and maybe Craftsman.

that picture doesnt make any sense. and im not sure what it means anyway. when wrenches are broached, they are broached in a stack of a few at a time, so naturally, they would all be broached in alignment.

also, if you grab wrenches from other manufacturers, of course they will not line up with a wrench made by another company, on another machine set up totally different.

as for the differences in the williams and snap on, i have heard many reasons as to why they are different. to me, it all sounds like ******** justification for the price increase.

i cant imagine the automotive field requires higher tolerances than other fields that would generally choose an industrial tool line like williams. it makes zero sense.

some other guy was claiming that a williams rep told him the chrome was cheaper/ thinner, and not polished as well. totally untrue. i bet the hardness stuff is untrue also. the difference is one is sold on a truck and one is not.

 

[dowmace]

that picture doesnt make any sense. and im not sure what it means anyway. when wrenches are broached, they are broached in a stack of a few at a time, so naturally, they would all be broached in alignment.

also, if you grab wrenches from other manufacturers, of course they will not line up with a wrench made by another company, on another machine set up totally different.

as for the differences in the williams and snap on, i have heard many reasons as to why they are different. to me, it all sounds like ******** justification for the price increase.

i cant imagine the automotive field requires higher tolerances than other fields that would generally choose an industrial tool line like williams. it makes zero sense.

some other guy was claiming that a williams rep told him the chrome was cheaper/ thinner, and not polished as well. totally untrue. i bet the hardness stuff is untrue also. the difference is one is sold on a truck and one is not.

The wrenches shouldn't line up with the snap on but they should all be even like the snap on. If they are made properly each wrench should be exactly like the next one on the line.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk now Free

 

[dj spanners]

the difference is one is sold on a truck and one is not.

exactly and someone's gotta pay for all that liquid gold that powers them big trucks round all day

 

[cheechi]

Snap-On and the USA made Williams are ounce for ounce identical in steel strength and come out of the same plant off the same machines using the same raw material grades.

The differences are, and the only differences are the level of finish, handle styles, and stampings.

Snap-On tools are polished to be flawless before the are chromed or oxide finished, and when chromed they are nickel chromed heavily. This high quality finishing increases the cost 2 -3 times over Williams. As they say, there is a difference and side by side it is clearly obvious. Snap-On is jewelry.

Williams is not finished in the raw as well as Snap-On before finishing, chrome or oxide, and they are single plated chrome. It keeps the cost down for industrial users that don't want to pay for a high level of finish. 100s of millions $$$ in chrome Snap-On are sold for cash to heavy industry every year world wide.

source

Can we just conclude the difference is in the manufacturing and not have anymore threads about it?

 

[3xpendable]

That display is awesome thanks for posting that. I totally get it,that is the small stuff that sets SO apart. It's not a big deal really but I Can see how that would change the pricing

 

[Skin]

some other guy was claiming that a williams rep told him the chrome was cheaper/ thinner, and not polished as well. totally untrue. i bet the hardness stuff is untrue also. the difference is one is sold on a truck and one is not.

Why does this topic get you so flustered to the point where you make accusations that they're lying yet you have ZERO proof to counter their statements? For one, the metal hardness differences are indeed true, you can test them for yourself.

Step back for a minute and think about the insane prices that Snap-On costs. Do you think they wouldn't go out of their way to make sure those tools are manufactured to a slightly higher standard? Nobody is saying there are big differences, just small ones.

i cant imagine the automotive field requires higher tolerances than other fields that would generally choose an industrial tool line like williams. it makes zero sense.

Also I don't know why you keep talking like Snap-On is only for blue collar mechanics and their tools are only used to fix broken automobiles. Snap-On tools is deeply entrenched with the government and aerospace industries. You'll see a lot more Snap-On in those areas than you will Williams.

 

[dowmace]

exactly and someone's gotta pay for all that liquid gold that powers them big trucks round all day

I can buy Williams off the truck right next to the snap on stuff.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk now Free

 

[BajaBound]

Thank you for posting the pictures. Williams are excellent tools even the Taiwan BP, Wiliams and New Holland tools.

 

[4xdog]

The photo of the wrenches lined up (or not) is interesting, but without some *serious* care to make sure the samples were taken from production using a statistically valid sampling method, it's really quite meaningless.

If it were my job to put together a Snap-on display showing they were better aligned than the other guys, you bet I'd be able to do it.

For all I know, it might be true -- Snap-on make great stuff -- but that display doesn't prove it.

 

[cheechi]

Snap-On tools is deeply entrenched with the government and aerospace industries. You'll see a lot more Snap-On in those areas than you will Williams.

I read this as a waste of taxpayer dollars. Williams are just fine for any possible Government/military use. Yes even with quantity discounts or whatever.

 

[woody 73]

I am somewhat very lost in all this talk about the differences in both brands; I thought they were all made in the same factory side by side by men & women in the same union jobs.

As far as placing an order I see at some web-sites will use the American flag, so I am guessing the coo to be made in the states, and without the flag to be made elsewhere.

 

[BajaBound]

The p/n that start with letters are usa and the number only p/n are taiwan etc.

 

[Fedwrench]

I read this as a waste of taxpayer dollars. Williams are just fine for any possible Government/military use. Yes even with quantity discounts or whatever.

Are you a technician working on a government fleet? What experience do you have in this area?
I manage a fleet of several hundred vehicles. I can tell you that Williams does not offer the range of tools particularly in metric sizes or specialty tools required to service late model vehicles. I get snap on through their industrial divison at roughly 50% off list which still may be considered expensive but, I only have to buy a tool once. PROTO is also another option I use.
It takes more than a hammer, an adjustable wrench, and a pair of pliers to maintain a modern fleet.

Once again, people want something for nothing/less. You guys want snap on without having to pay for it. I think you guys should get mad at all those people on ebay trying to sell williams and bahco as snap on.

 

[kythri]

The wrenches in the front are Snap-Ons, in the middle are other brands, and in the back are Williams. So the Snap-Ons are perfectly aligned and the Williams are just a tad off. I don't know what the other brands are. This was at a Snap-On show so I'm going to guess other tool truck guys and maybe Craftsman.

Honest question:

Outside of marketing of "hey look, our wrenches all line up, so that means better quality!", why does this matter?

I'm seriously at a loss understanding how aligned broaching means anything at all on a set of wrenches.

 

[bcradio]

I would agree with that. A lot of people want to speculate that some of the details that can't be easily seen (quality of the chrome, RC hardness or whatever) must be inferior because of the price but that's all that is, speculation. I've never seen anybody do any real scientific tests between the 2. Personally I think most of the speculation comes from not wanting to know how overpriced their SO labeled sockets were.

I own (or have owned) sockets from many different companies including SO, MAC, SK, Wright, Craftsman and IMO, the USA made Williams socks are the best deal going for made in the US sockets. ***** that you can't go to the local store and buy them but IMO, when you compare the quality and price compared to what you probably can get locally, I think they are worth the inconvenience.

If you want an even better deal and the convenience of local shopping, Lowe's Kobolt sockets are a great deal IMO. They are not made in the USA and their selection is limited but they are very good quality sockets that are dirt cheap when you find them on sale.

They look good and seem like they are good quality as well. The problem I have with the new Kobalt sockets are that they fit the nut/bolt absolutely terrible. I compared them to all of the other socket brands I have and they fit the worst by a long shot.

OP thanks for the info on the williams sockets.

 

[SlappyWhite]

I would like to see a hardness test. From a manufacturing perspective, assuming they are made on the same line it would cost more to change things up between runs to really make them different. Or in other words more expensive to make them less hard...

For the wrench test if they come from the same run I bet all brands align. Not sure why it matters....

 

[cheechi]

Are you a technician working on a government fleet? What experience do you have in this area?

I worked in city government for a while. People made decisions that were frequently more expensive than they should have been, both because they thought they should do this instead of that (brand or quote wise) or because they didn't know there were other options.

So we had a fleet of Police vehicles, City buses, and several 'misc' items like for the Colosseum, NPO's we worked with, etc. I was not directly purchasing for them or doing repairs on them, but yes I do have experience with what you're talking about. In my job I saw nearly all the invoices and products purchased for computers, the bus depot, police, colosseum, and water dept. A simple google search is usually all it takes to show them they could have got more for less. The fact they didn't care was my motivation to find someplace else to work.

 

[SMKS]

source

Can we just conclude the difference is in the manufacturing and not have anymore threads about it?

The problem with that claim is when you look at the pics in the original post. They sure look the same. I don't see an obvious difference in the finish that makes Snap-on look like "jewelry."

Perhaps there would be finish differences in person, but they sure look the same in pics.

 

[TwoInch]

The wrenches shouldn't line up with the snap on but they should all be even like the snap on. If they are made properly each wrench should be exactly like the next one on the line.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk now Free

that would be true of wrenches that come off the line in the same stack, off the same machine.

if you are snap on, you would be able to get a stack of wrenches that came off the line and machine in the same stack, all lining up. the problem arises when someone at snap on sources wrenches from another company, and is unable to gaurantee that they are off the same machine and of the same stack. they wouldnt be able to guarantee that they were even made within the same year... let alone in the same broaching stack..

again, not that it would matter in the slightest. they can only be off a tiny bit before they line back up again on a 12pt. how would that ever affect someone turning wrenches?

 

[TwoInch]

Why does this topic get you so flustered to the point where you make accusations that they're lying yet you have ZERO proof to counter their statements? For one, the metal hardness differences are indeed true, you can test them for yourself.

Step back for a minute and think about the insane prices that Snap-On costs. Do you think they wouldn't go out of their way to make sure those tools are manufactured to a slightly higher standard? Nobody is saying there are big differences, just small ones.



Also I don't know why you keep talking like Snap-On is only for blue collar mechanics and their tools are only used to fix broken automobiles. Snap-On tools is deeply entrenched with the government and aerospace industries. You'll see a lot more Snap-On in those areas than you will Williams.

flustered? accusations? who is showing proof of the contrary? definitely not the guys who are making all these claims(yourself included), but directly contradicting each other completely... i own more snap on than i do williams, so dont think im bashing snap on in anyway, because im not. but when something is plainly obvious, its plainly obvious. there is no reason they would be heat treated to different hardnesses. how does that even make sense?

 

[TwoInch]

For one, the metal hardness differences are indeed true, you can test them for yourself.

Step back for a minute and think about the insane prices that Snap-On costs. Do you think they wouldn't go out of their way to make sure those tools are manufactured to a slightly higher standard? Nobody is saying there are big differences, just small ones.
.

can we see your personal readouts showing the BHN? how many products have been confirmed rebrands that carry the snap on name, and a huge markup? we all agree those are the same tools, for vastly different prices...

and you dont think the truck service costs anything? you get zero CS with williams purchases, other than through the vendor.

i personally feel the truck service is not worth the price in anyway, and thats why i have never, and will never(most likely) buy from the truck.

snap on has invented an extremely profitable business model. they are king of the tool truck world. their profit numbers show this also. those enormous profits are coming from somewhere... out of all your pockets. those tools dont cost anymore to make compared to williams. its a BIG name, and a truck.. and i guarantee they sure want you to believe the tools are superior. that way they can continue to rake in the dough from the enormous profit margin.

 

[wornoutoldman]

i guarantee they sure want you to believe the tools are superior. that way they can continue to rake in the dough from the enormous profit margin.

Money for nothin and chicks for free!

 

[oilfieldtrash4]

flustered? accusations? who is showing proof of the contrary? definitely not the guys who are making all these claims(yourself included), but directly contradicting each other completely... i own more snap on than i do williams, so dont think im bashing snap on in anyway, because im not. but when something is plainly obvious, its plainly obvious. there is no reason they would be heat treated to different hardnesses. how does that even make sense?

I worked at a couple different heat treatment plants over 7 yrs total. In heat treatment the way that you load the material can have a huge effect on it receiving proper heat treatment. It's like baking cookies or whatever. If you just throw a huge lump of cookie dough onto a baking sheet it will not cook properly. If you take the time and separate the cookie dough and give each a little space to breathe it comes out right. Maybe the snap on batches are given more detail throughout the process knowing they get more money for them. I would hope that they are. I know when we had high dollar jobs at the heat treatment plants I've worked at they received the special treatment. Obviously the filler stuff that barely kept the lights on got heat treated but they definitely did not receive the full QC and attention to detail as the high dollar jobs.
Also obviously giving the material more breathing room means less payload per load. So yes if you want the proper treatment it costs more.