Snap On Counselor 2 Analyzer

[bubinga]

Thank you I'm not sure I never actually got to watch it.
I'd like to try to hook that thing up before I die.

 

[lschwarcz]

If you (or anyone else) would like the parts/repair manual PDF's let me know. If you do not have the users manual I would highly recommend getting one. There may be a PDF floating around or I see them occasionally on EBay.

Any other questions just let me know

Bill Brown

Hi Bill,

I just bought an MT3000A and would love to get any/all pdf files you may have on this!

I‘m missing the main assembly lead set and the inductive pickup and am looking into fabricating replacements.

thanks!
Larry.

 

[bubinga]

I would like to have the PDF(s) too Please.

 

[bubinga]

I may have mentioned, but I have the leads for DIS and COP and HEI (GM) and everything.

 

[bczee]

I got a MT3000/MT3100 with almost every adapter and lead for free. One of the shops I have as a wholesale customer gave it to me. He wasn't using it anymore for the type of cars he was servicing. I still have old cars. Should be fun to relearn and help out all of my old car buddies..

 

[MJerome]

I am starting up a Counselor 2 MT3000 which supposedly has never been used before. I get the message error on the Primary Wave Form. The boards all passed the Internal Self Diagnostic test. The result of the Input Self Diagnostic test shows the RPM from the Primary Lead as double the actual number and double the others. The manual says this indicates a problem with the lead, lead pickup or input circuitry. I have the same result with two different leadsets. The RPM reading is exactly double, something is going on in the data processing, I think. You can see in the screen below everything on the test came out as it should except this strange RPM result. Any ideas what to do?

 

[bczee]

We should start a new thread/post that is dedicated to the MT3000 Counselor I/II and it's related adapters, Uses and problem/fixes, along with Tips.

Maybe in the Tools/Vintage Tool Discussion forum.

 

[MJerome]

That makes sense. Whichever way is easiest for people with this interest to find the thread. Any thoughts on my primary RPM ressult? The distributor turns at half the speed of the engine. The tool must do math to calculate the engine speed. It is either doubling the reading twice or it is somehow receiving a doubled input, but I can't figure out how that could be.

 

[bczee]

What are you using for the Distributor ?.. does it have points are is it a electronic conversion. Are you using any CD box with Multi spark type of box ? type of coil ?

Have you tried the scope on another car ?

But, I don't recall any situation like you have. Maybe check the pins on the connector of the scope leads and adapters.

Maybe we ask the Forum Admins to create a forum section for the MT3000 threads/post under The Tools Forums...??

 

[MJerome]

Thank you for your reply. I am using it on a '63 Triumph TR4, Lucas distributor with points, 3 ohm coil, positive ground. I know people use this tool on these cars regularly. Unfortunately I don't have another car available at the moment (only very modern cars). The car runs well, so I am just working on the tool.

There has to be something simple going on. I am going to keep playing with it. I did just hook up a modern timing light to make sure the signal coming from the coil is correct and it tested fine. It's got to be meaningful that this one lead reads exactly twice the correct value.

Since there are so many things we can do with this tool it could be very interesting to set up a forum just for the MT 3000.

 

[bczee]

I Google'd the problem. I see that a few hits for Triumph's and MGB have the same problem. But I don't see them being the same problem source as yours.

Dump question. Is the scope setup for 4 cylinders and 4 stroke ? Just thought I'd ask.

Yeah. I'd like to see the forum setup. I currently only have a Chevy V8 with a HEI distributor. I can't seem to get a good secondary waveform and a few other screen. Primary screens seems ok to be displayed ok. I am hoping I'll get a few of my buddies over to scope their cars soon.

A aftermarket tach would have some DIP switches for different number of cylinders and would cause a mis-reading of RPM's. But that shouldn't be your problem. That is why I asked about your setup.

 

[MJerome]

Have you run the internal and input self diagnostic tests on yours?

I’m going to go through the scope setup process and rerun all the tests. The 4 stroke question is a good one. Can’t believe I got that wrong but I will confirm today.

 

[MJerome]

I tried everything again. I still can't get a primary waveform, the tool thinks I have 8 cylinders and my engine settings are wrong. It also lists the lead set ground breaker as a possible problem. However, I do get a good secondary waveform, so everything is working but on the coil connection to the distributor the primary lead is counting 2 firings for every one. I'm going to see what else I can do successfully with the tool and figure out how to get another car to test. Unfortunately, since my strobe light has no problem when connected to the same coil connector, I think my problem is in the tool somewhere.

 

[MJerome]

I changed the points and condensor out for a Pertronix electronic ignition and now it all works! I don't mind, I normally run Pertronix on all my Trtiumphs, but it is frustrating that it wouldn't work with the points.

Now I need to figure out what I can do with this tool. There's a lot to learn.

 

[bczee]

Glad to hear you got it working ok by swapping out the points. But, yeah it would be nice to figure out why it was double the RPM's. From my searching, as I saw before that both MGB's and Triumph's had the double RPM's with there Mag's and other problems.

But, let's keep this or other threads going to share info. I am just starting to go through and learn more usages and solve my non working or reading problems. But as you are, limited to cars to uses on for now.

I just re-tuned my carb using the MT3000/MT3100 4 gas analyzer on my 1948 Ford F1 226 to be idling at 14.1:1 , but the tip in from idle to part throttle seems to be a bit slow to respond, I think i keep trying different Idle F/R to see what works best.

 

[J Adams]

I just got a Snap On Counselor II, seems to be in pretty good shape. I am missing a number of attachments and need help to find them. Had some success on eBay but still looking for a few of them.
FYI, I have a restored '55 Cadillac show car with Pertronix ignition. First car I ever restored was a TR-3.
Anybody that has extra/unneeded attachments would love to hear from you!!
John Adams

 

[bczee]

I also have acquired one not long ago. Do you have either the online PDF manuals or a hard copy of the manuals ,

What leads to you have or need? See the MT3000 manual page 133-134. It might help. I've attached the two pages another for cable Identification.

 

[J Adams]

I have bought a number of Counselor II leads on eBay, but I have not been able to find a vacuum probe, part # MT3000-400, item #6 on the PDF. REALLY interested in that item! If you have one or know of one I'm interested!
I do have the original manual in a binder and various PDF's( service manual, etc.)
I have wound up with duplicates of some leads, open to trading!
Here's photos.
John Adams

 

[J Adams]

BTW, I looked at your post of all the goodies you have a saw that you have 2 of the vacuum sensors. If you aren't using them I would appreciate either one or both of them heading my way......
Interested?
Please?
John Adams

 

[J Adams]

Certainly willing to pay a fair price!!

 

[bczee]

John. For now, i plan to keep all of my leads. I have not been able to verify if all is working or not, I'll spend some time once the weather is better and I have been able to use my scope on some other cars that are equipped differently.
Right now, I suspect my secondary pickup might not be working on a HEI equipped car. I currently don't havev a standard coil and distributor car to use on either.

 

[J Adams]

Thanks for replying! No worries, I'm doing the same thing. I just acquired a box of misc. leads and have more coming. I plan to get familiar with the use of all this stuff on my Caddy starting in a few weeks when the weather starts to get better and I get it out of the garage.
I am going to have multiple duplicates of a number of items, so if you have a bad sensor or harness, I might have a good one to trade. Learning how to test and verify the condition of these items is definitely on the "to do" list, comparing notes would be extremely helpful.
Keep posting, this is going to be fun!
JA

 

[J Adams]

For the past few weeks I have been accumulating various bits and pieces for my MT 3000A Counselor 2. I have also found three more Counselors that I bought locally for some of the accessories that I intend to clean up and resell.
I will have a booth at the upcoming Portland Swap Meet in April and they will be available for purchase if anyone is interested.

 

[Revlimiting]

I wonder where is the internal memory power source in Counselor 2? As soon as I unplug my machine the time and date is lost. I was reading the user manual and it says that when external power source is disconnected that there is internal power source for the memory

update: it uses SuperCapacitor for freeze screem in memory keeping. It is on the motherboard under designation C1, brand is Gold cap and value is 5.5v 1f, for the clock and date SRAM chip DS1243Y is used and it is located on Digital daughterboard

 

[J Adams]

I noticed that as well.
Where in the manual does it describe the internal power source for the memory?

 

[bczee]

I have seen some info/posts on this subject either here or elsewhere. But IIRC there is a battery solder on to either the main board or some board. If you open the unit. You can find the battery and replace it if you can de-solder it and replace it. I could be mis- remembering.

 

[Revlimiting]

it uses SuperCapacitor for memory keeping of freeze frame screens that are stored in the memory and capacitor will keep the memory up to 3 days unplugged. It is on the motherboard under designation C1, brand is Gold cap and value is 5.5v 1f. For the clock and date setting there is a SRAM chip that looks like black box with markings Dallas DS1243Y is a memory chip with internal lithium battery that lasts 10 years. It is called 64k NV SRAM with Phantom Clock and it is located on "digital input" daughterboard under the designation "U4". You got to buy whole new production chip because you can't change the battery in it.

 

[Jon Rogers]

Ok I've been reading the issues with this analyzer and having bought 2 I'm going to get one 100% operational which is my challenge. (all help/suggestions welcome) To address this problem I built my own ignition test system after I discovered (the hard way) that these scopes do NOT LIKE SOLID CORE spark plug wires. The RF they admit throws them off.
By mixing boards I've got one working about 80% as it does all normal functions (going to replace the super cap and the Dallas chip per suggestions). The only thing it doesn't do is the LAB SCOPE functions which indicates significant internal problems on either analog, Digital, or Video cards.
It looks like I'm going to have to troubleshoot to the component level and if ANYONE HAS SCHEMATICS?? I would greatly be thankful.
If I can succeed in completely restoring one of these analyzers, i may be able to help others restore theirs.
Also, if anyone knows of extra spare parts for these, we should post it. I'd love to get additional boards etc as I've identified several component level issues with mine and I have the ability to troubleshoot the circuits if I had a good sample and/or component schematics.
cheers, Jon

 

[Revlimiting]

Jon I got 3 of counselor 2 units and 3 of counselor 1 units. They all work fine. In my opinion they are very reliable. I find it odd that two of your units have issues. There is a repair manual posted on this forum for Counselor 2 but it does not dig into how to fix individual boards.

 

[Jon Rogers]

Jon I got 3 of counselor 2 units and 3 of counselor 1 units. They all work fine. In my opinion they are very reliable. I find it odd that two of your units have issues. There is a repair manual posted on this forum for Counselor 2 but it does not dig into how to fix individual boards.

Thank you for that reply. Glad to hear they are normally reliable. I am impressed with their quality of build as I get into them. I'm sure they vary from unit to unit based on their individual use. I have been unlucky in trying to get one to 100% as I bought 4 on line that all had problems. Of the 2 I have now, one has bad video board (won't even show a picture), computer board (doesn't respond to front panel keys), and Analog board (fails internal check). The other works except for LAB scope functiions which I'm in the process of working to fix.

Would it be possible for me to borrow one of your working counselor 2's so I could compare component functions as I troubleshoot my unit? It would help me greatly and I'd return it when done? Possible?

thanks again.