Snap On Counselor 2 Analyzer
- Thread starter bubinga
- Start date
jimindm
Well-known member
I go by the leads on the equipment, and you can usually tell what it does.
That looks new enough that it should have inductive pick ups. It may even be new enough to have COP adaptors, but still should have some inductive leads some where.
I do not think those could do codes. I am not sure, but if it can it should have an OBD connector.
I think it was primarily an ignition scope. It may have the ability to scope sensors and other electrical components.
The demise of a lot of this large roll around equipment was smaller hand held stuff, that done the same thing. Why have a large unit like that, when you could get the same results with something that fit in a toolbox drawer.
That looks new enough that it should have inductive pick ups. It may even be new enough to have COP adaptors, but still should have some inductive leads some where.
I do not think those could do codes. I am not sure, but if it can it should have an OBD connector.
I think it was primarily an ignition scope. It may have the ability to scope sensors and other electrical components.
The demise of a lot of this large roll around equipment was smaller hand held stuff, that done the same thing. Why have a large unit like that, when you could get the same results with something that fit in a toolbox drawer.
vpd66
Well-known member
I have one like that. It does't do any code reading or have any hook ups to the vehicle computer. It is an ignition oscilloscope that shows primary and secondary wave forms. It can do cylinder cancelation, battery voltage, and alternator output wave form also. Works great on 1990 and earlier vehicles doesn't not work on coil on plug ignition systems. I got mine for $50 from a guy that bought it from a tech school.
quasijr
Member
It does coil on ignition if it has the adapter
vpd66
Well-known member
Do you have a picture of the adaptor? I have all the manuals for this scope and has far has I know I have all the leads that come with it.
Yes it has you mean coil on ignition do you mean dis or do you mean coil over plug it has the adapter for coil over plug in it is brand new has the sun timing light bunch of leaves I really didn't look at it yet I don't know I thought I could have got a good deal I got all the leads and everything yeah that's what I wanted was a it was a secondary ignition but I thought didn't they have adapters to read dis?
Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
Wow it's pretty much a done deal it came with a 2 gas analyzer 2 that he said he seemed to keep his stuff real nice this guy he was asking 300 for everything I got it for 250 with all the leads and books he said he got a call after I was on my way and the guy offered $350 but he held it for me cuz he said on the phone I will have to see what's what I hope they can at least read 2000, 2006 say, with coil packs.
Hells bells there is not too many 90's cars in this rust area. Down south, and out west, different story.
Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
Hells bells there is not too many 90's cars in this rust area. Down south, and out west, different story.
Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
Well, have some pictures,
The 1st one, I know are the coil wire, and the # 1 trigger.
Note the 2nd picture, There is a Blue, Red and yellow loom.
Not sure what they do.
Note the arrow, on the one single wire.
It goes into a connector, single wire on the end, but the connector has about
8 contacts in it. (Harness end) Like another harness can go there?
Nice Snap on Timing Light light in the 3rd. picture.
Next Amp Probe, Looks never used.
5 & 6, The COP kit. New.
#7 is a Box of test connectors, looks like to test sensors like a lab scope I'm guessing.
The 1st one, I know are the coil wire, and the # 1 trigger.
Note the 2nd picture, There is a Blue, Red and yellow loom.
Not sure what they do.
Note the arrow, on the one single wire.
It goes into a connector, single wire on the end, but the connector has about
8 contacts in it. (Harness end) Like another harness can go there?
Nice Snap on Timing Light light in the 3rd. picture.
Next Amp Probe, Looks never used.
5 & 6, The COP kit. New.
#7 is a Box of test connectors, looks like to test sensors like a lab scope I'm guessing.
Attachments
one, Two, And three, is a Box of connectors or adapters,
IDK,
Then a Break out Box For older fords, test the ECM. with a volt meter.
last is the 2 machines on the stand.
I have a learning curve ahead.
Thing is, I'd say this thing should be able to read DIS, say like on my 02 Alero, with the coil packs.
My thinking is, if There is adapters to read COP, Didn't DIS, with the coil packs come along BEFORE COP.
I'm hoping at least.
It's on a nice roll around stand, I have to go back for, and it also came with a printer.
And like I said, a 2 Gas exhaust machine. Bunch of new filters.
Don't know if I'd use the 2 gas much.
last one is the 2 machines on the stand.
So this reads battery and charging system too then I think, Right?
Edit, Really hope I have or can get what I need to do DIS,
and hopefully can read My secondary pattern on say like My 02 Alero, V6
and others.
IDK,
Then a Break out Box For older fords, test the ECM. with a volt meter.
last is the 2 machines on the stand.
I have a learning curve ahead.
Thing is, I'd say this thing should be able to read DIS, say like on my 02 Alero, with the coil packs.
My thinking is, if There is adapters to read COP, Didn't DIS, with the coil packs come along BEFORE COP.
I'm hoping at least.
It's on a nice roll around stand, I have to go back for, and it also came with a printer.
And like I said, a 2 Gas exhaust machine. Bunch of new filters.
Don't know if I'd use the 2 gas much.
last one is the 2 machines on the stand.
So this reads battery and charging system too then I think, Right?
Edit, Really hope I have or can get what I need to do DIS,
and hopefully can read My secondary pattern on say like My 02 Alero, V6
and others.
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vpd66
Well-known member
I don't know if you will be able to hook it up to you 2002 Alero. I know for a fact it doesn't hook up to my 2006 Silverado that has coil on plug ignition. You will have to read the manual. Remember these machines were built in the middle to late 80s. Cars have evolved quite a bit since then. By your pictures it looks like you have quite a mixture of leads. I recognize some of them and I know for a fact that some are not compatible with the Snap-on machine. Picture 5 & 6 is a Sun adaptor and I doubt it will work with the Snap-on scope. Snap-on is real good about making connectors and such fit only there machines. The Snap-on timing light is a good score if it works. They were around $200 back in the 90s if my memory serves me correct, but not much useable on newer cars.
vpd66
Well-known member
The OTC break out board has nothing to do with the Snap-on scope. It looks like a Ford factory tool.
vpd66
Well-known member
The last picture in your first post is a bunch of leads and I can see Textron on them. Those aren't for the Snap-on scope. This collection looks like it was from a Dealership that when out of business and were most likely all batched together and sold at an auction.
vpd66
Well-known member
The first two pictures in your first post are the Snap-on leads for the scope. They look just like the leads on mine.
No, This Old Guy had his own garage,
I saw the garage.
Well it's still open, but he only has one man working now.
Oh, what so the Textron (yeah, I saw that too) leads, cant be used to check anything with the scope, as A lab scope type of deal?
What would you use them with, a DVM?
Picture 5 & 6 sun adapter, What pictures are those? Re post them please?
EDIT, Never mind, That's what we were both talking about, Pics, 5 & 6.
This Kit here, IS a COP Adapter KIT. He Brought it for That Scope.
I sure hope To God, it is for That Scope.
Oh, Are you talking about these, IDK, You know snap on brought out sun right?
Again, hope it's for this machine.
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WBrowniv
Well-known member
I have one of these scopes and love it! Can you tell me what model it is? If you look on the rear of the machine you will see a tag with model and serial number. Does it say "MT3000" or "MT3000A"? The machines are basically the same with the "A" version getting some updated circuitry protection and incorporating the 2 gas analyzer functions into the menu on the scope itself.
In the books you got with it, do you have a large 3 ring binder with the operating/testing procedures? It's pretty hard to miss. In the rear of this manual is a list of all the standard connectors/cables/accessories that come with it and their part numbers. If you need this list I can post it here or email it to you. I do have PDF files for the repair manual as well as the parts manual. These were used by the field techs and really give some nice info! Just having the part numbers available is immensely helpful when looking to buy accessories!
When I first got mine, it needed a good cleaning so I took everything out of the cabinet, cleaned every lead, and then took a physical inventory against the parts list in the manual. This way you know what you have. Having the COP adapter is a nice item and is one I'm looking for. Mine came from a Chrysler dealership and has the optional 9th/10th DIS lead kit. It didn't dawn on me why that was until I read the included pamphlet and realized it was for the V10 Viper! Something tells me that will not be something I use!
The strange connectors actually should say "Thexton" on them. I believe these to be original to the machine as they match the adapters shown in the manual. Mine also came with many of these and all say "Thexton" on them. These were adapters that allowed the scope to hook up to the coils. I do believe Snap On bought from them directly and included them with the scopes.
On the two gas analyzer, it will probably need a new oxygen sensor as these are known to fail after awhile. There may be a self test option in the menu. I know you can run a self test on the scope itself.
If you (or anyone else) would like the parts/repair manual PDF's let me know. If you do not have the users manual I would highly recommend getting one. There may be a PDF floating around or I see them occasionally on EBay.
Any other questions just let me know
Bill Brown
In the books you got with it, do you have a large 3 ring binder with the operating/testing procedures? It's pretty hard to miss. In the rear of this manual is a list of all the standard connectors/cables/accessories that come with it and their part numbers. If you need this list I can post it here or email it to you. I do have PDF files for the repair manual as well as the parts manual. These were used by the field techs and really give some nice info! Just having the part numbers available is immensely helpful when looking to buy accessories!
When I first got mine, it needed a good cleaning so I took everything out of the cabinet, cleaned every lead, and then took a physical inventory against the parts list in the manual. This way you know what you have. Having the COP adapter is a nice item and is one I'm looking for. Mine came from a Chrysler dealership and has the optional 9th/10th DIS lead kit. It didn't dawn on me why that was until I read the included pamphlet and realized it was for the V10 Viper! Something tells me that will not be something I use!
The strange connectors actually should say "Thexton" on them. I believe these to be original to the machine as they match the adapters shown in the manual. Mine also came with many of these and all say "Thexton" on them. These were adapters that allowed the scope to hook up to the coils. I do believe Snap On bought from them directly and included them with the scopes.
On the two gas analyzer, it will probably need a new oxygen sensor as these are known to fail after awhile. There may be a self test option in the menu. I know you can run a self test on the scope itself.
If you (or anyone else) would like the parts/repair manual PDF's let me know. If you do not have the users manual I would highly recommend getting one. There may be a PDF floating around or I see them occasionally on EBay.
Any other questions just let me know
Bill Brown
WBrowniv
Well-known member
Oh and yes the COP adapter kit is for the scope!
According to this page on e bay,
That kit is for this machine.
I think I might need some kind of other box to do DIS Darn It.
he did say He thought It did do DIS.
I know some of the early sun scopes were not able to be upgraded for DIS.
And later ones were.
I am pretty sure this one is up-grade-able.
That kit is for this machine.
I think I might need some kind of other box to do DIS Darn It.
he did say He thought It did do DIS.
I know some of the early sun scopes were not able to be upgraded for DIS.
And later ones were.
I am pretty sure this one is up-grade-able.
Attachments
thanks BillI have one of these scopes and love it! Can you tell me what model it is? If you look on the rear of the machine you will see a tag with model and serial number. Does it say "MT3000" or "MT3000A"? The machines are basically the same with the "A" version getting some updated circuitry protection and incorporating the 2 gas analyzer functions into the menu on the scope itself.
In the books you got with it, do you have a large 3 ring binder with the operating/testing procedures? It's pretty hard to miss. In the rear of this manual is a list of all the standard connectors/cables/accessories that come with it and their part numbers. If you need this list I can post it here or email it to you. I do have PDF files for the repair manual as well as the parts manual. These were used by the field techs and really give some nice info! Just having the part numbers available is immensely helpful when looking to buy accessories!
When I first got mine, it needed a good cleaning so I took everything out of the cabinet, cleaned every lead, and then took a physical inventory against the parts list in the manual. This way you know what you have. Having the COP adapter is a nice item and is one I'm looking for. Mine came from a Chrysler dealership and has the optional 9th/10th DIS lead kit. It didn't dawn on me why that was until I read the included pamphlet and realized it was for the V10 Viper! Something tells me that will not be something I use!
The strange connectors actually should say "Thexton" on them. I believe these to be original to the machine as they match the adapters shown in the manual. Mine also came with many of these and all say "Thexton" on them. These were adapters that allowed the scope to hook up to the coils. I do believe Snap On bought from them directly and included them with the scopes.
On the two gas analyzer, it will probably need a new oxygen sensor as these are known to fail after awhile. There may be a self test option in the menu. I know you can run a self test on the scope itself.
If you (or anyone else) would like the parts/repair manual PDF's let me know. If you do not have the users manual I would highly recommend getting one. There may be a PDF floating around or I see them occasionally on EBay.
Any other questions just let me know
Bill Brown
I'll take a look and get back to you
WBrowniv
Well-known member
Looking again at your pictures the second batch posted top right....the item with the 4 round connectors screwed into a larger piece...each plug has two leads apiece. This is the DIS adapter. You do indeed have DIS with this scope!
Bill
Bill
vpd66
Well-known member
Well it seems I have the earlier model. Mine is a Snap-on MT1665 Counselor digital oscilloscope. I have the 3 ring binder user's manual and it is dated 9/87. Nowhere in the user manual does it say anything about hooking up to DIS or coil on plug ignition.
WBrowniv
Well-known member
The MT1665 is the original Counselor scope. It did not come with native DIS ignition support. However, Snap On offered the MT1658 Ignition Interface adapter to allow the MT1665 to work on DIS. It's a box that would sit on top of the scope. You occasionally see just the adapter for sale on Ebay but typically it may be cheaper to buy another 1665 that has the 1658 adapter with it.
I have one of these scopes and love it! Can you tell me what model it is? If you look on the rear of the machine you will see a tag with model and serial number. Does it say "MT3000" or "MT3000A"? The machines are basically the same with the "A" version getting some updated circuitry protection and incorporating the 2 gas analyzer functions into the menu on the scope itself.
In the books you got with it, do you have a large 3 ring binder with the operating/testing procedures? It's pretty hard to miss. In the rear of this manual is a list of all the standard connectors/cables/accessories that come with it and their part numbers. If you need this list I can post it here or email it to you. I do have PDF files for the repair manual as well as the parts manual. These were used by the field techs and really give some nice info! Just having the part numbers available is immensely helpful when looking to buy accessories!
When I first got mine, it needed a good cleaning so I took everything out of the cabinet, cleaned every lead, and then took a physical inventory against the parts list in the manual. This way you know what you have. Having the COP adapter is a nice item and is one I'm looking for. Mine came from a Chrysler dealership and has the optional 9th/10th DIS lead kit. It didn't dawn on me why that was until I read the included pamphlet and realized it was for the V10 Viper! Something tells me that will not be something I use!
The strange connectors actually should say "Thexton" on them. I believe these to be original to the machine as they match the adapters shown in the manual. Mine also came with many of these and all say "Thexton" on them. These were adapters that allowed the scope to hook up to the coils. I do believe Snap On bought from them directly and included them with the scopes.
On the two gas analyzer, it will probably need a new oxygen sensor as these are known to fail after awhile. There may be a self test option in the menu. I know you can run a self test on the scope itself.
If you (or anyone else) would like the parts/repair manual PDF's let me know. If you do not have the users manual I would highly recommend getting one. There may be a PDF floating around or I see them occasionally on EBay.
Any other questions just let me know
Bill Brown
OK, Good, Is is the MT3000A!
I do have the binder, have not looked at it.
Do you know what it takes to get these to read DIS
I think I saw where there is another box that goes on top is needed.
I will have to look at the connectors in the book.
I had a fellow come over and use my press, and he helped me Jack up by Big took box, to level, where it fell through the rotted floor.
So was getting too hot down there, I had to come in.
Dialed in something in the 4 jaw too. (Pulley)
Really would like to goof around with this machine, but only have a car with coil packs right now.
This is a good read here.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Snap-On-Counselor-oscilloscopes-A-Primer-/10000000001691487/g.html
Of interest also from the above,
A handy feature of all Counselors is that once attached to the engine, you can connect your timing light to special terminals on the back of the Counselor--the Counselor provides a proper signal for your timing light rather than having to attach it to the engine wires. Many technicians leave the timing light permanently connected to the Counselor.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Snap-On-Counselor-oscilloscopes-A-Primer-/10000000001691487/g.html
Of interest also from the above,
A handy feature of all Counselors is that once attached to the engine, you can connect your timing light to special terminals on the back of the Counselor--the Counselor provides a proper signal for your timing light rather than having to attach it to the engine wires. Many technicians leave the timing light permanently connected to the Counselor.
vpd66
Well-known member
Thanks for the info. I've seen other MT1665's come up for sale but never seen a MT1658 adapter. I'm currently dealing with someone that has a MT3000 this would be easier then trying to find the adaptor. If I do strike a deal for the MT3000 I might take you up on the manuals.
vpd66
Well-known member
That link has been removed.
vpd66
Well-known member
Its good to find someone that knows something about these scopes.
WBrowniv
Well-known member
bubinga,
The MT3000 and MT3000A both come with DIS capabilities built in as standard equipment. The box you may be thinking of could be the DIS adapter for the MT1665. If you look in your manual under standard connections it will show you how to hook up the normal DIS systems. I'm hoping you have the instructions for the COP adapter kit that shows you how to use it as I have not come across any info on it.
vpd66,
If you can get the MT3000 you would be better off. Many of the adapter leads for the 1665 can be used on the 3000. Look to see if it has an "A" at the end of the model number on the back. That is the last and best version of the scope.
Another box that you may see on top of the scopes is what's called a "Lumi" adapter which allowed you to time diesel engines. I have never worked with one so I don't have much info on it.
Any other questions don't hesitate to ask! I will help if I can
Bill
The MT3000 and MT3000A both come with DIS capabilities built in as standard equipment. The box you may be thinking of could be the DIS adapter for the MT1665. If you look in your manual under standard connections it will show you how to hook up the normal DIS systems. I'm hoping you have the instructions for the COP adapter kit that shows you how to use it as I have not come across any info on it.
vpd66,
If you can get the MT3000 you would be better off. Many of the adapter leads for the 1665 can be used on the 3000. Look to see if it has an "A" at the end of the model number on the back. That is the last and best version of the scope.
Another box that you may see on top of the scopes is what's called a "Lumi" adapter which allowed you to time diesel engines. I have never worked with one so I don't have much info on it.
Any other questions don't hesitate to ask! I will help if I can
Bill
Yes it is.
IDK, It's still working for me?
Snap-On sold several different designs of automotive oscilloscopes. This guide is intended to acquaint you with three full-sized (not hand-held) Counselor models that were produced in the '80's and '90's. These units are the original Counselor (MT1665), the Counselor XL (MT1765), and the Counselor II (MT3000).
All Counselor units are fairly compact considering that they were sold as full-featured shop equipment. The days of hand-held or PC-based oscilloscopes were still a long way in the future. All these units are capable of running on 120V "house current", or on 12 volts for use in the vehicle on road tests. The original Counselor, the MT1665, would be the most portable, the other two units are larger and heavier. There is also the matter of how to secure the cables which must be connected to the engine, and routed into the passenger compartment so the unit is viewable. Obviously, the cables must not be allowed to move around while on road test, so they don't burn or fall off.
None of the Counselor series is useable as a "code reader". The MT3000 will communicate with, and display codes and data captured by an MT2500 or MTG2500 "Red Brick" scanner, but the scanner must be connected to both the vehicle and the MT3000 using cables supplied with the scanner.
A handy feature of all Counselors is that once attached to the engine, you can connect your timing light to special terminals on the back of the Counselor--the Counselor provides a proper signal for your timing light rather than having to attach it to the engine wires. Many technicians leave the timing light permanently connected to the Counselor.
MT1665 Counselor
The first of the Counselor units, this one and the MT1765 are strongly related. The MT1665 can display information from distributor-style ignition systems. It will work with some distributorless ignitions, but only if used with the distributorless ignition interface, the MT1658, which was an extra-cost item. An optional roll-cart, the KR495 is usually, but not always, used to store the Counselor. Snap-On sold a printer for use with the Counselor, called the Scribe.
MT1765 Counselor XL
The Counselor XL (X-tra Large) is based on the Counselor MT1665, but with a larger screen and a built-in printer. It is significantly more bulky than the original Counselor MT1665. The 'XL performs the same tests as the Counselor MT1665. The 'XL must be used with the MT1658 when testing distributorless ignition systems.
MT3000 and 3000A Counselor II
The Counselor series was substantially updated to produce the Counselor II MT3000. The 3000 series does more tests than the other Counselors, and is capable of interfacing with both the Snap-On scan tool and a Snap-On 4- or 5-gas exhaust analyzer. There were at least two styles of roll cab designed for the 3000 series, one a small and compact unit, (KR495) with an optional "boom" that lifted the cables up and out of the way (KRB495A); and the other cabinet was much larger and had significantly more storage space inside, along with space for a printer (MT3010 Scribe) alongside the Counselor II. Several nylon fabric dust covers were offered, including the MTC3000 for the Counselor II only, and the MTC30003010 which protected both the Counselor II and the printer.
In addition to all the tests performed by the Counselor and Counselor XL, the Counselor II has distributorless ignition capability built-in, when used with the MT3000-340A leadset. This leadset allowed distributorless engines up to 8 cylinders to be displayed. An expansion leadset MT3000-341A added capacity for an additional 2 cylinders--for example, the Dodge V-10. Optional probes and adaptors allow the Counselor II to display vacuum waveforms (MT3000-400); cylinder-to-cylinder cranking-speed variations (MT3000-420); high amps (MT3000-410); low (under 10) amps (MT3000-440); in addition there is an optional infra-red remote control (MT3000-600). Coil adaptors include MT3000-300 for GM coil-in-cap HEI; MT3000-310 for Honda; MT3000-330 for Toyota and Toyota-built Chevy Nova; there is a back-probe adaptor set MT3000-430; and YA859A is a "quick connect" adaptor set for HEI and Ford coils.
The MT3000 (* if equipped with the optional accessories) would perform tests on engines from 1 to 16 cylinders (up to 10 cylinders for distributorless ignition system):
Primary waveform
Primary parade waveform
Dwell Bar Graph
Duty Cycle/ Dwell Bar Graph
Duty Cycle/ Voltage Bar Graph
Secondary Waveform
Secondary Parade Waveform
kV Histograph
kV Bar Graph
Burn Time Bar Graph
Voltage Waveform
Lab Scope Waveform
Fuel Injector Waveform
Alternator Waveform
Vacuum Waveform*
Power Balance Waveform
Cylinder Time Balance Bar Graph*
Cylinder Shorting Even/Odd Bar Graph
Cranking Amps Bar Graph*
The Counselor II will communicate with the MT3100 series 4-gas exhaust analyzer. Be aware that the MT3100 series 4-gas analyzer will probably not work properly because they require a new oxygen sensor to be installed approximately every six months, and nobody does that. Therefore, the exhaust analyzer will fail it's own self-test at least until the sensor is replaced. A Counselor II will also drive an auxiliary color TV screen, provided the TV has RGB inputs. Ideal for remote viewing as a training aid.
The Counselor II has a built-in self-test feature that checks the integrity of some--maybe most--of it's circuits. Any seller of a Counselor II should be able to follow the menu system to access and perform the self-test.
A minor revision to the MT 3000 resulted in the MT 3000A. The "A" revision has some additional internal protection circuits, and it also displays more information when paired with the exhaust analyzer. Otherwise, the 3000 and the 3000A perform the same tests.
PRICES
It is NOT my intention to offer anything like a comprehensive price guide for these machines. They are getting on in years, and the condition of an individual machine, along with the optional accessories offered, can greatly influence the price. On the other hand, I've been "watching" the eBay prices for about three years now, and I've bought three Counselors on eBay within that time frame, so I have some idea what the typical "going rate" is.
I bought an MT1665 with the distributorless adaptor MT1658, including all cords except the 12-Volt "cigarette lighter" power cord, and the owner's manual and VHS tape, but NOT including the roll stand or a nylon cover. There were NO additional accessories like the MT3000 uses except for a nicely-complete set of Thexton coil adaptors. I paid about $475 shipped to my door about four years ago. This unit turned out to be defective, and was returned to the seller.
I bought an MT3000A with a nylon cover, the "huge" roll stand which I've been unable to find a part number for, the overhead boom, all cables, a binder-sized owner's manual, and a remote control. It did NOT have the vacuum adapter MT3000-400, the high amps probe MT3000-410, the low amps probe MT3000-440, or the cranking speed probe MT3000-420. The seller did not know that there was a 4-gas analyzer "hidden" in the cabinet--he didn't advertise it, and I didn't know it was included. I paid $880, I think--at any rate it was $1125, delivered to my door via truck freight. The 4-gas analyzer did not work, most likely because of the ancient O2 sensor which I did not replace. This unit was destroyed in a fire about a year after purchase.
To replace my 3000A, I bought an MT3000 (not a 3000A) that included the small roll stand, the 4-gas analyzer (which did not work, and I haven't installed an O2 sensor), a vacuum adapter, high amps probe, the binder-sized owner's manual, and a separate, but related accessory, a diesel/magnetic timing probe MT1480. This auction did NOT include the overhead boom, remote control, the low amps probe, the cranking speed probe, or a nylon cover. I paid $1300 shipped to my door, about $150 or so was the shipping cost--I forget exactly.
Pay (or ask) whatever you like. Yes, these machines were hugely expensive when new. That was then, this is now. Don't forget that shipping gets expensive especially when a roll stand is included. Both of my MT3000 units arrived with shipping damage to the roll stands, and there was no recourse through shipping insurance, because the carrier claimed "inadequate packing materials". Paying more for a "local" machine and/or one with all the optional gizmos is probably a good use of money. You've been warned...
Please also look at my guide to home shop air compressors .
If this guide has been helpful, please give me a "Yes" vote by clicking the button below. If you have suggestions for improvement, you can contact me through the "My Messages" feature of eBay by clicking on my user name above, and then click on "Contact Member". Thanks, all.
Entire contents copyright (C) 2007, 2008 Camino3X2 Feel free to LINK to this Guide in your auctions.
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Sweet, I was starting to have a Bit of Buyers remorse. Not so much now.
Thank You!!
Again, Good To Know!bubinga,
The MT3000 and MT3000A both come with DIS capabilities built in as standard equipment. The box you may be thinking of could be the DIS adapter for the MT1665. If you look in your manual under standard connections it will show you how to hook up the normal DIS systems. I'm hoping you have the instructions for the COP adapter kit that shows you how to use it as I have not come across any info on it.
vpd66,
If you can get the MT3000 you would be better off. Many of the adapter leads for the 1665 can be used on the 3000. Look to see if it has an "A" at the end of the model number on the back. That is the last and best version of the scope.
Another box that you may see on top of the scopes is what's called a "Lumi" adapter which allowed you to time diesel engines. I have never worked with one so I don't have much info on it.
Any other questions don't hesitate to ask! I will help if I can
Bill
Yeah, That's what I probably saw, and thought I needed.
I'm going to have to look, I think there is instructions for the COP adapter kit.Glad I can Do DIS and have the leads/adapters.
I have the boom too, and I have to go get the stand.
Not the OEM stand, but it's real nice, he made it out of an old alignment machine stand.
Can't wait to hook it up, and read the Pattern. Just for Fun.
Alero is running good.
EDIT,
Bill, or anyone with the gas analyzer.
this guy told me, (wait till you hear this)
The heat, is what messes up the 02 sensor on the back of the machine.
He said He was told, (Not By Snap On) and he Proved it, that if the sensor is kept in the refrigerator, (DO NOT FREEZE) the sensor will last practically forever.
No First hand knowledge of this now.
Last edited:
WBrowniv
Well-known member
That is interesting! I do not have the gas analyzer so I do not have first hand knowledge of this. I just remember reading that the O2 sensor fails. I would read up on things and fire it up and see what it does
If you happen to find the instructions for the COP kit would you send me a copy? I would like to see how this kit was used.
If you happen to find the instructions for the COP kit would you send me a copy? I would like to see how this kit was used.
vpd66
Well-known member
bubinga,
The MT3000 and MT3000A both come with DIS capabilities built in as standard equipment. The box you may be thinking of could be the DIS adapter for the MT1665. If you look in your manual under standard connections it will show you how to hook up the normal DIS systems. I'm hoping you have the instructions for the COP adapter kit that shows you how to use it as I have not come across any info on it.
vpd66,
If you can get the MT3000 you would be better off. Many of the adapter leads for the 1665 can be used on the 3000. Look to see if it has an "A" at the end of the model number on the back. That is the last and best version of the scope.
Another box that you may see on top of the scopes is what's called a "Lumi" adapter which allowed you to time diesel engines. I have never worked with one so I don't have much info on it.
Any other questions don't hesitate to ask! I will help if I can
Bill
Ok, thanks for the info. I'll let you know it the deal pans out.
vpd66
Well-known member
Yes it is.
IDK, It's still working for me?
Snap-On sold several different designs of automotive oscilloscopes. This guide is intended to acquaint you with three full-sized (not hand-held) Counselor models that were produced in the '80's and '90's. These units are the original Counselor (MT1665), the Counselor XL (MT1765), and the Counselor II (MT3000).
All Counselor units are fairly compact considering that they were sold as full-featured shop equipment. The days of hand-held or PC-based oscilloscopes were still a long way in the future. All these units are capable of running on 120V "house current", or on 12 volts for use in the vehicle on road tests. The original Counselor, the MT1665, would be the most portable, the other two units are larger and heavier. There is also the matter of how to secure the cables which must be connected to the engine, and routed into the passenger compartment so the unit is viewable. Obviously, the cables must not be allowed to move around while on road test, so they don't burn or fall off.
None of the Counselor series is useable as a "code reader". The MT3000 will communicate with, and display codes and data captured by an MT2500 or MTG2500 "Red Brick" scanner, but the scanner must be connected to both the vehicle and the MT3000 using cables supplied with the scanner.
A handy feature of all Counselors is that once attached to the engine, you can connect your timing light to special terminals on the back of the Counselor--the Counselor provides a proper signal for your timing light rather than having to attach it to the engine wires. Many technicians leave the timing light permanently connected to the Counselor.
MT1665 Counselor
The first of the Counselor units, this one and the MT1765 are strongly related. The MT1665 can display information from distributor-style ignition systems. It will work with some distributorless ignitions, but only if used with the distributorless ignition interface, the MT1658, which was an extra-cost item. An optional roll-cart, the KR495 is usually, but not always, used to store the Counselor. Snap-On sold a printer for use with the Counselor, called the Scribe.
MT1765 Counselor XL
The Counselor XL (X-tra Large) is based on the Counselor MT1665, but with a larger screen and a built-in printer. It is significantly more bulky than the original Counselor MT1665. The 'XL performs the same tests as the Counselor MT1665. The 'XL must be used with the MT1658 when testing distributorless ignition systems.
MT3000 and 3000A Counselor II
The Counselor series was substantially updated to produce the Counselor II MT3000. The 3000 series does more tests than the other Counselors, and is capable of interfacing with both the Snap-On scan tool and a Snap-On 4- or 5-gas exhaust analyzer. There were at least two styles of roll cab designed for the 3000 series, one a small and compact unit, (KR495) with an optional "boom" that lifted the cables up and out of the way (KRB495A); and the other cabinet was much larger and had significantly more storage space inside, along with space for a printer (MT3010 Scribe) alongside the Counselor II. Several nylon fabric dust covers were offered, including the MTC3000 for the Counselor II only, and the MTC30003010 which protected both the Counselor II and the printer.
In addition to all the tests performed by the Counselor and Counselor XL, the Counselor II has distributorless ignition capability built-in, when used with the MT3000-340A leadset. This leadset allowed distributorless engines up to 8 cylinders to be displayed. An expansion leadset MT3000-341A added capacity for an additional 2 cylinders--for example, the Dodge V-10. Optional probes and adaptors allow the Counselor II to display vacuum waveforms (MT3000-400); cylinder-to-cylinder cranking-speed variations (MT3000-420); high amps (MT3000-410); low (under 10) amps (MT3000-440); in addition there is an optional infra-red remote control (MT3000-600). Coil adaptors include MT3000-300 for GM coil-in-cap HEI; MT3000-310 for Honda; MT3000-330 for Toyota and Toyota-built Chevy Nova; there is a back-probe adaptor set MT3000-430; and YA859A is a "quick connect" adaptor set for HEI and Ford coils.
The MT3000 (* if equipped with the optional accessories) would perform tests on engines from 1 to 16 cylinders (up to 10 cylinders for distributorless ignition system):
Primary waveform
Primary parade waveform
Dwell Bar Graph
Duty Cycle/ Dwell Bar Graph
Duty Cycle/ Voltage Bar Graph
Secondary Waveform
Secondary Parade Waveform
kV Histograph
kV Bar Graph
Burn Time Bar Graph
Voltage Waveform
Lab Scope Waveform
Fuel Injector Waveform
Alternator Waveform
Vacuum Waveform*
Power Balance Waveform
Cylinder Time Balance Bar Graph*
Cylinder Shorting Even/Odd Bar Graph
Cranking Amps Bar Graph*
The Counselor II will communicate with the MT3100 series 4-gas exhaust analyzer. Be aware that the MT3100 series 4-gas analyzer will probably not work properly because they require a new oxygen sensor to be installed approximately every six months, and nobody does that. Therefore, the exhaust analyzer will fail it's own self-test at least until the sensor is replaced. A Counselor II will also drive an auxiliary color TV screen, provided the TV has RGB inputs. Ideal for remote viewing as a training aid.
The Counselor II has a built-in self-test feature that checks the integrity of some--maybe most--of it's circuits. Any seller of a Counselor II should be able to follow the menu system to access and perform the self-test.
A minor revision to the MT 3000 resulted in the MT 3000A. The "A" revision has some additional internal protection circuits, and it also displays more information when paired with the exhaust analyzer. Otherwise, the 3000 and the 3000A perform the same tests.
PRICES
It is NOT my intention to offer anything like a comprehensive price guide for these machines. They are getting on in years, and the condition of an individual machine, along with the optional accessories offered, can greatly influence the price. On the other hand, I've been "watching" the eBay prices for about three years now, and I've bought three Counselors on eBay within that time frame, so I have some idea what the typical "going rate" is.
I bought an MT1665 with the distributorless adaptor MT1658, including all cords except the 12-Volt "cigarette lighter" power cord, and the owner's manual and VHS tape, but NOT including the roll stand or a nylon cover. There were NO additional accessories like the MT3000 uses except for a nicely-complete set of Thexton coil adaptors. I paid about $475 shipped to my door about four years ago. This unit turned out to be defective, and was returned to the seller.
I bought an MT3000A with a nylon cover, the "huge" roll stand which I've been unable to find a part number for, the overhead boom, all cables, a binder-sized owner's manual, and a remote control. It did NOT have the vacuum adapter MT3000-400, the high amps probe MT3000-410, the low amps probe MT3000-440, or the cranking speed probe MT3000-420. The seller did not know that there was a 4-gas analyzer "hidden" in the cabinet--he didn't advertise it, and I didn't know it was included. I paid $880, I think--at any rate it was $1125, delivered to my door via truck freight. The 4-gas analyzer did not work, most likely because of the ancient O2 sensor which I did not replace. This unit was destroyed in a fire about a year after purchase.
To replace my 3000A, I bought an MT3000 (not a 3000A) that included the small roll stand, the 4-gas analyzer (which did not work, and I haven't installed an O2 sensor), a vacuum adapter, high amps probe, the binder-sized owner's manual, and a separate, but related accessory, a diesel/magnetic timing probe MT1480. This auction did NOT include the overhead boom, remote control, the low amps probe, the cranking speed probe, or a nylon cover. I paid $1300 shipped to my door, about $150 or so was the shipping cost--I forget exactly.
Pay (or ask) whatever you like. Yes, these machines were hugely expensive when new. That was then, this is now. Don't forget that shipping gets expensive especially when a roll stand is included. Both of my MT3000 units arrived with shipping damage to the roll stands, and there was no recourse through shipping insurance, because the carrier claimed "inadequate packing materials". Paying more for a "local" machine and/or one with all the optional gizmos is probably a good use of money. You've been warned...
Please also look at my guide to home shop air compressors .
If this guide has been helpful, please give me a "Yes" vote by clicking the button below. If you have suggestions for improvement, you can contact me through the "My Messages" feature of eBay by clicking on my user name above, and then click on "Contact Member". Thanks, all.
Entire contents copyright (C) 2007, 2008 Camino3X2 Feel free to LINK to this Guide in your auctions.
Tags: Snap On
Counselor
Oscilloscope
'scope
MT3000
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Good info! Thanks for posting it.
Yeah, I can do that.That is interesting! I do not have the gas analyzer so I do not have first hand knowledge of this. I just remember reading that the O2 sensor fails. I would read up on things and fire it up and see what it does
If you happen to find the instructions for the COP kit would you send me a copy? I would like to see how this kit was used.
WBrowniv
Well-known member
I have the VHS tape with mine as well