Snap On is cheating us?

[magova1104]

One more example of that the MADE IN USA stamp counts: Some Sears still have old stock USA made wrenches set (just an example) and they have the new ones (Made in China clearly stamped in the package, not in the tool)and even if its the same set of 8 wrenches (let's say, ratcheting) The USA made price= $89.00 vs. China made= $49.99 Obviously somebody still care about the COO because they're going fast.

 

[magova1104]

That's quite a blanket statement. You believe this is applicable to everything in life?

I am just saying that every country has their own history and reputation. And hey! I am not American and I am proud of your tools!

 

[magova1104]

Allen tools probably arent nice enough for you guys, but they're stamped USA.

Allen tools is part of APEX TOOL GROUP now, and they no longer exist as USA made, they are imported now. I am not sure who makes them, but I think they were rebranded with the name of Master Force trough Menards and some other stores. And yes. They are MADE IN USA.

 

[vintagefan]

I can tell you another reason FOR SURE that the Dual 80 bodies are USA made (while the guts may not be).

The Dual 80's are Trivalent chromed. It's much easier to run Hexavalent chrome and get good results, so in general, most companies that aren't bound by environmental regulations, are running hex chrome. The Bahco, for instance, are Hex chrome.

If the Dual 80's were done overseas, then there would be no reason to run them in any factory besides the spanish one, because it's already set up for production. Regardless of what factory they were set up in, there would be no reason to run them anything but Hex chrome, because that's the plating line they're already likely using.

As long as the Dual 80's stay Trivalent chrome, IMO it's pretty safe to say that they're still USA made. If the chrome all of a sudden changes colors, then it's time to worry.

 

[Talus]

I am just saying that every country has their own history and reputation. And hey! I am not American and I am proud of your tools!

I hear ya. More than once I've had some new or fairly new tool or product break and sure enough, it was a cheapo item, maybe $20 vs a $50 item. When it breaks I've said again and again, "well, you get what you pay for." So I understand that in many, if not most, cases you need to pay more for quality. But this isn't always applicable in life. Sometimes cheaper items will perform just as well if not better than higher priced things.

When it comes to tools though, usually you can pick the tool up and just by the feel you can tell its quality.

 

[Talus]

Gotta love this age we live in and the easy access to information:

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard

"The Standard For Unqualified Made In USA Claims
What is the standard for a product to be called Made in USA without qualification?

For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The term "United States," as referred to in the Enforcement Policy Statement, includes the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories and possessions.

What does "all or virtually all" mean?

"All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content."

 

[magova1104]

I hear ya. More than once I've had some new or fairly new tool or product break and sure enough, it was a cheapo item, maybe $20 vs a $50 item. When it breaks I've said again and again, "well, you get what you pay for." So I understand that in many, if not most, cases you need to pay more for quality. But this isn't always applicable in life. Sometimes cheaper items will perform just as well if not better than higher priced things.

When it comes to tools though, usually you can pick the tool up and just by the feel you can tell its quality.

Yes and NO. Its hard to find a cheap tools that performs as well as a good tool. Sometimes the appearance its good but not the performance. Its true that when you use that tool once a year,you will be happy for a lot of years (you probably use it 4-5 times) but when you have to use that tool every day,20 times a day, using it and using it, the things change dramatically.
I am a tools user and also a tools collector, and I KNOW that cheap tools doesn't have a great future in Collectors Showcases.

 

[vintagefan]

Gotta love this age we live in and the easy access to information:

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard

"The Standard For Unqualified Made In USA Claims
What is the standard for a product to be called Made in USA without qualification?

For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The term "United States," as referred to in the Enforcement Policy Statement, includes the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories and possessions.

What does "all or virtually all" mean?

"All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content."

I think that is just further support that some of the small parts of the Dual 80's are Spanish made.

It doesn't make any sense... it's just as easy to grind the "USA" off the roll dies for the sockets and extensions, yet they haven't removed the markings on those.

I think this is really a multi-faceted issue, but I can almost 100% guarantee that at least one facet is some dirtbag bean counter that doesn't care about the generations of faithful American customers that made Snap-on what it is today.

 

[cderalow]

So little background on what determins COO marking.

The Federal Trade Commission regulates how things are stamped, and there's a 40+ page primer on what it tames here.

Basically for something to be 'Made in USA' all or virtually all of the parts, pieces, materials and labor occur within the united states and its outlying territories.

To qualify this further, this means that the materials that are used in processing are of US origin.

So let's take a wrench.

Say the steel for the wrench is produced in canada, brought to the US, then snap on (or whoever) fabricates that wrench inside the US borders.

Is the wrench US Made?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
NO! the steel (a major component) wasn't a US sourced material.

Same wrench, same manufacturer and that steel comes from Arkansas or some other US place. and that wrench is US made.

In the case of global sourcing of materials it's an extremely fine line. Chances are Snap on has seen the litigation that has occured against manufacturers who continue to use the made in USA markings when using global sourced parts, and the ensuing fines and civil liability that occurs and just want to cover their own asses.

Because really the FTC doesn't give a clear defined percentage.

Let's take the ratchet:

Say the metal is made in the US, but the guts are made in Spain. if the guts are 25% of the cost of production, then they can't claim it's made in the USA.

If it were just the screws or just the ratchet faceplate or some small portion of the total production costs, then I'm sure they'd still stamp them that way.


Does this mean they are cheating you? Do you feel that the quality of the overall product is decreased?

Let's take a non-tool related example:

Honda Civic

The honda civic is made in at least 3 countries: US, Canada, Japan.

Do you think Honda doesn't force their global production facilities to maintain the same quality standards? Do you think they'd leave their reputation, a very important thing to large global companies, up to the guy making the engine blocks for their cars?

Not likely.

I can almost guarantee Snap On evaluates the raw materials it receives to make sure they have a consistent quality regardless of it's source.

In other words, they make sure the steel they're getting to make wrenches from Arkansas is the same as the stuff they're getting from Canada, or Spain, or where ever the hell else they're getting stuff.

Because ultimately they know what sells is the reputation for quality that is associated with their name.

 

[magova1104]

Gotta love this age we live in and the easy access to information:

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard

"The Standard For Unqualified Made In USA Claims
What is the standard for a product to be called Made in USA without qualification?

For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The term "United States," as referred to in the Enforcement Policy Statement, includes the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories and possessions.

Yeap. I knew that. That is the reason that Snap on and a lot of companies are no longer stamping the USA word in their tools. I just want that the companies be honest, that's all. If I go to the Snap on truck, I can see a lot of imports,(I'm not gonna wait to see an electronic stuff made in USA, LOL) but I know that all blue point tools are imports, well, If they had been honest with that tools, why they not doing it with all their tools?

 

[Fedwrench]

It seems like we rehash this every month. If you don't like a brand of tool, for whatever the reason, don't buy it. It's that simple. Buy what you like to use for whatever reason floats your boat.

 

[magova1104]

Does this mean they are cheating you? Do you feel that the quality of the overall product is decreased?

Let's take a non-tool related example:

Honda Civic

The honda civic is made in at least 3 countries: US, Canada, Japan.

Do you think Honda doesn't force their global production facilities to maintain the same quality standards? Do you think they'd leave their reputation, a very important thing to large global companies, up to the guy making the engine blocks for their cars?

Not likely.

I can almost guarantee Snap On evaluates the raw materials it receives to make sure they have a consistent quality regardless of it's source.

In other words, they make sure the steel they're getting to make wrenches from Arkansas is the same as the stuff they're getting from Canada, or Spain, or where ever the hell else they're getting stuff.

Because ultimately they know what sells is the reputation for quality that is associated with their name.[/QUOTE]

Well, for me to say: "cheating us", its just a manner to talk to my mates here. Actually, they never did on me. ALL MY SNAP ON TOOLS HAS THE USA STAMPED and I pay a lot attention when I buy a tool. For me to buy a tool, its an investment. One time I sold a Snap on screwdriver, that I purchased for $18 in $ 250! I realized then, that I am not alone. A lot of people in the World cares about the USA mark.
And about the cars. I have 27 years working in cars, every day.I know a LOT about it. Honda and Toyota always shows the exact percentage and COO of the parts used in every single car they sell.

 

[magova1104]

It seems like we rehash this every month. If you don't like a brand of tool, for whatever the reason, don't buy it. It's that simple. Buy what you like to use for whatever reason floats your boat.

LOL! Are you sending me to my room?

 

[lennoxlennox]

Snapon are up front with their US and worldwide operations:

"Item 2: Properties

Snap-on maintains leased and owned manufacturing, warehouse, distribution, research and development and office
facilities throughout the world. Snap-on believes that its facilities currently in use are suitable and have adequate capacity
to meet its present and foreseeable future demand. Snap-on’s facilities in the United States occupy approximately 3.1
million square feet, of which 78% is owned, including its corporate and general office facility located in Kenosha,
Wisconsin. Snap-on’s facilities outside the United States occupy approximately 4.4 million square feet, of which
approximately 74% is owned."

The following table provides information about our corporate headquarters, financial services operations and each of
Snap-on’s principal manufacturing locations and distribution centers (exceeding 50,000 square feet) as of 2011 year end:
Location Type of Property Owned/Leased Segment*
U.S. Locations:
Elkmont, Alabama Manufacturing Owned SOT
Conway, Arkansas Manufacturing Owned RS&I
City of Industry, California Manufacturing Leased C&I
Poway, California Manufacturing and distribution Leased RS&I
San Jose, California Manufacturing Leased RS&I
Columbus, Georgia Distribution Owned C&I
Crystal Lake, Illinois Distribution Owned SOT
Libertyville, Illinois Financial services operations Leased FS
Algona, Iowa Manufacturing and distribution Owned SOT
Olive Branch, Mississippi Distribution Owned SOT
Carson City, Nevada Distribution Owned and Leased SOT
Murphy, North Carolina Manufacturing and distribution Owned C&I
Richfield, Ohio Manufacturing and distribution Owned RS&I
Robesonia, Pennsylvania Distribution Owned SOT
Elizabethton, Tennessee Manufacturing Owned SOT
Kenosha, Wisconsin Distribution and corporate Owned SOT, C&I, RS&I
Milwaukee, Wisconsin Manufacturing Owned SOT
Non-U.S. Locations:
Santo Tome, Argentina Manufacturing Owned C&I
New South Wales, Australia Distribution Leased SOT
Minsk, Belarus Manufacturing Owned C&I
Santa Barbara D'oeste, Brazil Manufacturing and distribution Owned RS&I
Mississauga, Canada Manufacturing Leased RS&I
Kunshan, China Manufacturing Owned C&I
Xiaoshan, China Manufacturing Owned C&I
Bramley, England Manufacturing Leased C&I
Kettering, England Distribution Owned SOT, C&I
Sopron, Hungary Manufacturing Owned RS&I
Correggio, Italy Manufacturing Owned RS&I
Tokyo, Japan Distribution Leased C&I
Helmond, the Netherlands Distribution Owned C&I
Vila do Conde, Portugal Manufacturing Owned C&I
Irun, Spain Manufacturing Owned C&I
Placencia, Spain Manufacturing Owned C&I
Vitoria, Spain Manufacturing and distribution Owned C&I
Bollnäs, Sweden Manufacturing Owned C&I
Edsbyn, Sweden Manufacturing Owned C&I
Lidköping, Sweden Manufacturing Owned C&I
Sandviken, Sweden Distribution Leased C&I
* Segment abbreviations:
C&I – Commercial & Industrial Group
SOT – Snap-on Tools Group
RS&I – Repair Systems & Information Group
FS – Financial Services
In April 2011, Snap-on closed its Newmarket, Canada, tool storage manufacturing facility and consolidated its North

 

[lennoxlennox]

Additionally....

"Continuing to expand its
presence in Asia-Pacific,
Snap-on recently opened this
modern engineering and R&D
center in Kunshan, China.
Equipped with an engineering
workshop, test laboratory and
vehicle garage, the new center
will accommodate over 150
engineers developing undercar
equipment, power tools and
diagnostics products for this
increasingly important and
growing region."

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

You do realize that that if the tool is made overseas, it either has to be stamped or the package marked with the COO if sold in the USA. If it is made here, it does not have to be stamped. It does have to be stamped if assembled here with foreign components though.

I HAVE talked to the guys making the ratchets, screwdrivers, wrenches, sockets and air impact guns Unless you think that the Southeast is still in the Confederate States of America, they are still made here. I do believe that they removed the stamping to allow them to be produced overseas in the future but for now, they are still produced here as far as I can tell.

Yes, I also know guys that have toured several of their plants as well. Everyone working there spoke Southern as their native language, not Chinese, Japanese, Korean or anything else. I still can't believe that many of you fell for the Photo Shopped "North Korea" COO gag.

 

[thetreshon]

Snapon are up front with their US and worldwide operations:

"Item 2: Properties

Snap-on maintains leased and owned manufacturing, warehouse, distribution, research and development and office
facilities throughout the world. Snap-on believes that its facilities currently in use are suitable and have adequate capacity
to meet its present and foreseeable future demand. Snap-on’s facilities in the United States occupy approximately 3.1
million square feet, of which 78% is owned, including its corporate and general office facility located in Kenosha,
Wisconsin. Snap-on’s facilities outside the United States occupy approximately 4.4 million square feet, of which
approximately 74% is owned."

The following table provides information about our corporate headquarters, financial services operations and each of
Snap-on’s principal manufacturing locations and distribution centers (exceeding 50,000 square feet) as of 2011 year end:
Location Type of Property Owned/Leased Segment*
U.S. Locations:
Elkmont, Alabama Manufacturing Owned SOT
Conway, Arkansas Manufacturing Owned RS&I
City of Industry, California Manufacturing Leased C&I
Poway, California Manufacturing and distribution Leased RS&I
San Jose, California Manufacturing Leased RS&I
Columbus, Georgia Distribution Owned C&I
Crystal Lake, Illinois Distribution Owned SOT
Libertyville, Illinois Financial services operations Leased FS
Algona, Iowa Manufacturing and distribution Owned SOT
Olive Branch, Mississippi Distribution Owned SOT
Carson City, Nevada Distribution Owned and Leased SOT
Murphy, North Carolina Manufacturing and distribution Owned C&I
Richfield, Ohio Manufacturing and distribution Owned RS&I
Robesonia, Pennsylvania Distribution Owned SOT
Elizabethton, Tennessee Manufacturing Owned SOT
Kenosha, Wisconsin Distribution and corporate Owned SOT, C&I, RS&I
Milwaukee, Wisconsin Manufacturing Owned SOT
Non-U.S. Locations:
Santo Tome, Argentina Manufacturing Owned C&I
New South Wales, Australia Distribution Leased SOT
Minsk, Belarus Manufacturing Owned C&I
Santa Barbara D'oeste, Brazil Manufacturing and distribution Owned RS&I
Mississauga, Canada Manufacturing Leased RS&I
Kunshan, China Manufacturing Owned C&I
Xiaoshan, China Manufacturing Owned C&I
Bramley, England Manufacturing Leased C&I
Kettering, England Distribution Owned SOT, C&I
Sopron, Hungary Manufacturing Owned RS&I
Correggio, Italy Manufacturing Owned RS&I
Tokyo, Japan Distribution Leased C&I
Helmond, the Netherlands Distribution Owned C&I
Vila do Conde, Portugal Manufacturing Owned C&I
Irun, Spain Manufacturing Owned C&I
Placencia, Spain Manufacturing Owned C&I
Vitoria, Spain Manufacturing and distribution Owned C&I
Bollnäs, Sweden Manufacturing Owned C&I
Edsbyn, Sweden Manufacturing Owned C&I
Lidköping, Sweden Manufacturing Owned C&I
Sandviken, Sweden Distribution Leased C&I
* Segment abbreviations:
C&I – Commercial & Industrial Group
SOT – Snap-on Tools Group
RS&I – Repair Systems & Information Group
FS – Financial Services
In April 2011, Snap-on closed its Newmarket, Canada, tool storage manufacturing facility and consolidated its North

I see Mississauga up there...now I have to know - what the heck are they still making in Canada?! I can't afford it, but now I want it!

 

[lennoxlennox]

by the way... for all those who do the snapon vs harbor freight china arguments in the scads of threads

when the topic of HF using the cheapest contract manufacturer ... and you state emphatically that's what SO does

check your facts first before you spout

Kunshan, China Manufacturing Owned C&I
Xiaoshan, China Manufacturing Owned C&I

 

[vintagefan]

It seems like we rehash this every month. If you don't like a brand of tool, for whatever the reason, don't buy it. It's that simple. Buy what you like to use for whatever reason floats your boat.

There are new members every month that would like to discuss it.

If you tire of this discussion, it is only one thread among many, and easily ignored.

 

[jonb347]

blue point is not the same...they are usually junk....and if you do research youll see that snap on stopped stamping as market research to see if it affected sales.

 

[JeremyManning]

mmm Scarlett Johansson, what were we talking about, oh yeah

I see Mississauga up there...now I have to know - what the heck are they still making in Canada?! I can't afford it, but now I want it!

I beleive they are using the facility as a warehouse for shipping warranty related items, I have some warranty stuff that was at my house in one day from calgary on the packing list but mississauga on the box.

 

[volunteers]

A friend who worked in China told me that Snap on tool box was manufactured in China from last year, or a year before. Anyone who bought SO tool box recently can confirm it?

 

[srmofo]

not this **** again

 

[Talus]

So little background on what determins COO marking.

The Federal Trade Commission regulates how things are stamped, and there's a 40+ page primer on what it tames here.

Basically for something to be 'Made in USA' all or virtually all of the parts, pieces, materials and labor occur within the united states and its outlying territories.

To qualify this further, this means that the materials that are used in processing are of US origin.

So let's take a wrench.

Say the steel for the wrench is produced in canada, brought to the US, then snap on (or whoever) fabricates that wrench inside the US borders.

Is the wrench US Made?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
NO! the steel (a major component) wasn't a US sourced material.

Same wrench, same manufacturer and that steel comes from Arkansas or some other US place. and that wrench is US made.

In the case of global sourcing of materials it's an extremely fine line. Chances are Snap on has seen the litigation that has occured against manufacturers who continue to use the made in USA markings when using global sourced parts, and the ensuing fines and civil liability that occurs and just want to cover their own asses.

Because really the FTC doesn't give a clear defined percentage.

Let's take the ratchet:

Say the metal is made in the US, but the guts are made in Spain. if the guts are 25% of the cost of production, then they can't claim it's made in the USA.

If it were just the screws or just the ratchet faceplate or some small portion of the total production costs, then I'm sure they'd still stamp them that way.


Does this mean they are cheating you? Do you feel that the quality of the overall product is decreased?

Let's take a non-tool related example:

Honda Civic

The honda civic is made in at least 3 countries: US, Canada, Japan.

Do you think Honda doesn't force their global production facilities to maintain the same quality standards? Do you think they'd leave their reputation, a very important thing to large global companies, up to the guy making the engine blocks for their cars?

Not likely.

I can almost guarantee Snap On evaluates the raw materials it receives to make sure they have a consistent quality regardless of it's source.

In other words, they make sure the steel they're getting to make wrenches from Arkansas is the same as the stuff they're getting from Canada, or Spain, or where ever the hell else they're getting stuff.

Because ultimately they know what sells is the reputation for quality that is associated with their name.

Good post. Although Snap-On stopped stamping, say, the ratchet in this discussion, the website still says USA for COO for the F80 (3/8" 80-tooth ratchet). Was going to comment on this further, but GeorgiaHybrid addressed this below. Maybe Snap-On is gearing up for a transition, so first they stop stamping, but still name COO as USA, and then, one day you'll go on the web and see something else in the COO box under the specs.

In the grand scheme of things, Snap-On is a business, driven by capital. If the cost of producing specific items doesn't become economically viable for the company, and threatens its brand, sourcing lower cost alternatives is inevitable. Their main goal is to stay in business.

It seems like we rehash this every month. If you don't like a brand of tool, for whatever the reason, don't buy it. It's that simple. Buy what you like to use for whatever reason floats your boat.

fo·rum (fôrm, fr-)
n. pl. fo·rums also fo·ra (fôr, fr)
1.
a. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
b. A public meeting place for open discussion.
c. A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/forum

This is a forum, a place for discussion. I don't understand why people seem to forget that and get annoyed. Conversations like this add to the vitality of the forum, engages members. If you don't want to be part of this conversation, you don't have to be. No one is forcing you.

You do realize that that if the tool is made overseas, it either has to be stamped or the package marked with the COO if sold in the USA. If it is made here, it does not have to be stamped. It does have to be stamped if assembled here with foreign components though.

I HAVE talked to the guys making the ratchets, screwdrivers, wrenches, sockets and air impact guns Unless you think that the Southeast is still in the Confederate States of America, they are still made here. I do believe that they removed the stamping to allow them to be produced overseas in the future but for now, they are still produced here as far as I can tell.

Yes, I also know guys that have toured several of their plants as well. Everyone working there spoke Southern as their native language, not Chinese, Japanese, Korean or anything else. I still can't believe that many of you fell for the Photo Shopped "North Korea" COO gag.

Thanks for clearing this up.

 

[Big Johnson]

It seems like we rehash this every month. If you don't like a brand of tool, for whatever the reason, don't buy it. It's that simple. Buy what you like to use for whatever reason floats your boat.

For me, its not that simple. My father has been telling me about Snap on since I was a baby; its like a part of my history. My father tells me my Craftsman tools are not professional quality, which pisses me off because he is so blind to where and how things are made. And I am a better tech than he will ever be with what ever tools I use. Some guy I worked with has a blue-point box, top box he paid $500 dollars for and thinks it is so much better than my US General roll cart I paid $150 for that is thicker steel and powdercoated. My friend who paid $8,000 for a box has to call me every time he has to do anything on his vehicle because he has 1/4 of the tools I have. I am affected by judgement against me from people who think stuff off a truck is the only way to go; in reality, less than 1/4 of my tools are truck brands and I am a better tech not for my tools, but for using the correct tool for the correct job, and educating myself instead of working to pay for tools.

 

[magova1104]

This is a forum, a place for discussion. I don't understand why people seem to forget that and get annoyed. Conversations like this add to the vitality of the forum, engages members. If you don't want to be part of this conversation, you don't have to be. No one is forcing you.


Lets face it. If we check up the status of this forum its because we all like to enter in the discussion. Cheers!

 

[magova1104]

For me, its not that simple. My father has been telling me about Snap on since I was a baby; its like a part of my history. My father tells me my Craftsman tools are not professional quality, which pisses me off because he is so blind to where and how things are made. And I am a better tech than he will ever be with what ever tools I use. Some guy I worked with has a blue-point box, top box he paid $500 dollars for and thinks it is so much better than my US General roll cart I paid $150 for that is thicker steel and powdercoated. My friend who paid $8,000 for a box has to call me every time he has to do anything on his vehicle because he has 1/4 of the tools I have. I am affected by judgement against me from people who think stuff off a truck is the only way to go; in reality, less than 1/4 of my tools are truck brands and I am a better tech not for my tools, but for using the correct tool for the correct job, and educating myself instead of working to pay for tools.

Absolutely correct! Tools doesn't make a good tech. I know a lot of techs with a long time doing their jobs and use one or two cheap tools. BUT EXPERIENCED TECHS always use professional tools. If you think are good enough in your job, don't you think you deserve the best in tools? I think so. And because I can afford it, I will keep doing until I die. Like somebody here said: "LIFE ITS TOO SHORT FOR CHEAP TOOLS"

 

[Creditor]

For me, its not that simple. My father has been telling me about Snap on since I was a baby; its like a part of my history. My father tells me my Craftsman tools are not professional quality, which pisses me off because he is so blind to where and how things are made. And I am a better tech than he will ever be with what ever tools I use.

Wow. I wish I knew as much as I thought I did when I was your age.

 

[bcradio]

only (and all) imported items need to have coo attached to the imported item
is made in USA companies do not have to label item as such.

another conspirisy theory

Actually quite the opposite is the case... Virtually none of my imported tools state COO on them (Germany being exception). And pretty much all of my US made tools do state this.

Is it opposite day or something and I didn't get the memo?

 

[vintagefan]

not this **** again

Not this "not this **** again" post again

As others have mentioned, if you dislike the conversation, you are welcome to sit it out. Nobody is holding your eyelids open and forcing you to read the thread.

This means something to many people, if it means nothing to you, that's just fine. That doesn't mean you have to **** on the people who do care about it, and their desire to discuss it more than whatever arbitrary number of times is acceptable.



I understand this conversation has been had many times on this forum, but if it isn't regularly discussed, and made into an important issue, how will anything ever get done about it? How will Snap-on know that people don't like them hiding COO, unless people are vocal about it, and continue to be vocal about it?

 

[magova1104]

Not this "not this **** again" post again

As others have mentioned, if you dislike the conversation, you are welcome to sit it out. Nobody is holding your eyelids open and forcing you to read the thread.

This means something to many people, if it means nothing to you, that's just fine. That doesn't mean you have to **** on the people who do care about it, and their desire to discuss it more than whatever arbitrary number of times is acceptable.



I understand this conversation has been had many times on this forum, but if it isn't regularly discussed, and made into an important issue, how will anything ever get done about it? How will Snap-on know that people don't like them hiding COO, unless people are vocal about it, and continue to be vocal about it?

Yes! I started this thread not to upset someone. I am just sharing my opinion in the place that I think is appropriate. And again, I am not against of companies like snap on that don't shows their COO's. I am against of a company who buy cheap stuff from overseas and sell it here as USA made, and not cheap.

 

[bcradio]

FYI:

COO != "Made in"

 

[srmofo]

Not this "not this **** again" post again

As others have mentioned, if you dislike the conversation, you are welcome to sit it out. Nobody is holding your eyelids open and forcing you to read the thread.

This means something to many people, if it means nothing to you, that's just fine. That doesn't mean you have to **** on the people who do care about it, and their desire to discuss it more than whatever arbitrary number of times is acceptable.



I understand this conversation has been had many times on this forum, but if it isn't regularly discussed, and made into an important issue, how will anything ever get done about it? How will Snap-on know that people don't like them hiding COO, unless people are vocal about it, and continue to be vocal about it?

This horse is dead, I get it people are upset about USA being removed their new tool purchases. Im not one to ***** about threads, in fact this is probably the first time I have done it

Why does a NEW thread need to be started every 2-3 weeks about it?

Just start an "Official OH MY GOD SNAP ON HAS REMOVED THE USA STAMP FORM THEIR TOOLS!" thread. Then everyone that wants to debate in circles about something they have absolutely no power to change can hop on the merry go round and not clutter the site with the same dribble over and over again.

These threads are about as annoying as the "why did the so and so thread get deleted" and the " HF is better than Snap on" threads.

Seriously just consolidate the 100 or so threads on this same subject and keep it in one place. I promise Ill stay out of that one.

 

[Joe B.]

So maybe we need a "Complain about COO Thread", just like the Hot Deals thread. If it takes off there can be a whole forum.

Maybe we also need a "Complain about people that Complain Thread" Seems like more people complain about complaining than complain about COO.

 

[BHH]

Why don't people just pick up the phone and call Snap-on?

Start a campagne, get everyone you know to call them and let them know if they start moving their major products offshore you will stop buying them. Get your friends and neighbours to call even if they don't use the tools. Heck dial the number at the check out at the grocery store and get the cashier to say it too!

 

[NC-Fordguy]

Kind of true. My every day car its a 2000 Honda Accord, I've had for 10 years now (I bought it used) And I never ever had a problem. I prefer a Japanese car over any American car. Sorry, but I work in cars every day and I noticed that Japanese cars have less issues.
I have to explain myself. I am not an USA proud guy. I am a USA tools fan, that's why I am in this place (GJ) But for me, every country has their own good stuff, Italy has fast and exotic cars,Mexico has the Tequila, Russia has nice girls,Japan has the sushi, Germany has good blades and great cars, and for me, USA has MUSCLE CARS and GOOD TOOLS.

I've been slapping wrenches on cars longer than you and the claim of Japanese cars being better is ********. When it gets right down to it, there really isn't any difference. Those who make that claim either own them or sell them. It's the my _____ is better because it's mine.

Also just in case you haven't noticed in the past 20 or so years, auto manufacturing is a global business. Let's see--Honda with GM transmissions, Mazda with Ford Power trains, Isuzu with Dana axles, etc etc.

Questions are:

Do I really want spend 200 dollars on that ratchet assembled with global components

When something breaks do I want to go to a store and exchange it, mail it off, call a 1-800 number, wait for or chase down the tool truck, and make sure I have my receipts(where applicable).





Seems as though tool production has cought up with most everything else. It's now global.

 

[Big Johnson]

Wow. I wish I knew as much as I thought I did when I was your age.

You don't know how old I am. I may be an old man loosing some of my memory. Young people these days, no respect.

 

[bcradio]

I've been slapping wrenches on cars longer than you and the claim of Japanese cars being better is ********. When it gets right down to it, there really isn't any difference. Those who make that claim either own them or sell them. It's the my _____ is better because it's mine.

Also just in case you haven't noticed in the past 20 or so years, auto manufacturing is a global business. Let's see--Honda with GM transmissions, Mazda with Ford Power trains, Isuzu with Dana axles, etc etc.

Questions are:

Do I really want spend 200 dollars on that ratchet assembled with global components

When something breaks do I want to go to a store and exchange it, mail it off, call a 1-800 number, wait for or chase down the tool truck, and make sure I have my receipts(where applicable).





Seems as though tool production has cought up with most everything else. It's now global.

FYI: http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1520/10-cars-mechanics-hate/

Although a Ford did make the cut so you should be happy.

 

[Big Johnson]

I've been slapping wrenches on cars longer than you and the claim of Japanese cars being better is ********. When it gets right down to it, there really isn't any difference. Those who make that claim either own them or sell them. It's the my _____ is better because it's mine.

Also just in case you haven't noticed in the past 20 or so years, auto manufacturing is a global business. Let's see--Honda with GM transmissions, Mazda with Ford Power trains, Isuzu with Dana axles, etc etc.

Questions are:

Do I really want spend 200 dollars on that ratchet assembled with global components

When something breaks do I want to go to a store and exchange it, mail it off, call a 1-800 number, wait for or chase down the tool truck, and make sure I have my receipts(where applicable).





Seems as though tool production has cought up with most everything else. It's now global.

How do you know how long that guy has worked on cars? Japanese vehicles are better engineered. I have owned five Fords that did'nt last 150,000 miles. I had a civic with 700,000 miles on odometer, with motor swap after the first 400,000. I currently own a Honda and Harley; the Honda is definately superior engineering. I also own a Toyota and Chyrsler; once again engineering is far superior even though the Chyrler has Mitsubishi engine the body and electrical are the stupidest designs. The Chrysler suspension is too thin and causes fatal accidents all the time, while its electrical has been the biggest pain in the ***. My father has a F550 had to have the engine replaced twice before hitting 100,000 miles. You are absolutely and utterly incorrect. Ten times the amount of engineers graduate from school in the "East" compared to the US yearly. Every mechanic/tech/tech-ed teacher/person I know, knows Ford is not better than a Toyota. The Ford commercials themselves say "we are starting to do better with quality." You can argue all you want about Ford, but take a vote and see if Toyota doesnt win. Like I said, I am American, have owned numerous of both and without bias Ford is not a better engineered vehicle than Toyota. There is a reason Toyota sells more cars in American than Ford even though they cost more. My Grandfather was a NASA engineer and wouldnt drive anything other than Toyota.

 

[woody 73]

I am not sure I understand all the talk of being cheated, I buy a little of everything from all the tool companies and if the come from overseas so be it. What concerns me the most is when that laser etching comes off the tool and it breaks then I worry about getting it replaced.

For the most part I try my best to buy American in order to support the worker, but sometimes it is very hard (Mac tools comes to mind). Carry on with your post!