I would think once the foundry recycles it it is just as good as any steel which originated in the US. Iron is iron no matter where it comes from and I assume all the ****** impurities would be burned off or some how skimmed off am I wrong?
Snap On is cheating us?
- Thread starter magova1104
- Start date
I would think once the foundry recycles it it is just as good as any steel which originated in the US. Iron is iron no matter where it comes from and I assume all the ****** impurities would be burned off or some how skimmed off am I wrong?
NC-Fordguy
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I'm not so much a car guy, but a truck and SUV guy. Not too many that I haven't had my hands into repairing or modifying (and breaking
)It's always interesting finding out brand a has brand b parts in it.
Years ago I worked for ASMO. They made(make) power door locks components, windshield wiper motors, and power seat components for many import cars and trucks. (and a few domestics) One stamping machine was for toyota, another for Nissan etc etc.
This plant is in North Carolina. The lines or what is a toyota, ford, Honda etc etc are really blurred these days
bcradio
Well-known member
Naw, I'm done playing, but feel free to go hump someone else's leg though
Wouldn't want to follow your lead... I'm done as well. Like they say on here: I don't want to argue with a ***** cause you'll just drag me down to your level and beat me with experience
Theres also a Saying that says:
"Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference."
Murphy4570
Well-known member
The South will rise again!!!!!!
Seriously though, south of the Mason-Dixon line still is the Confederacy. They've just been letting the Union having its way since 1865, grudgingly. Very nice folks, too.
Assuming they're processing it correctly, yes.
But it's more likely they're not doing the foundry work, and using already processed steel. So if there are defects (component mix or lattice structure is off), then that will be reflected in the tool.
Another possible issue is if they're skipping steps, such as either annealing or hardening when/where it's needed in order to reduce costs (increase their margins).
Brownsfan
Well-known member
I was pretty sure it was built here in the Brookpark Oh engine plant. I can remember driving by the plant and seeing a pic of the Explorer saying engine proudly built in Brookpark. Maybe it was the v8. I know they build the ecoboost v6 there now. This whole rebranding of tools is very hard to keep track of. I bought some pliers from Cornwell and one says USA and one says nothing about COO. It seemed that quality tools were the one last thing we could proudly say is built here in the USA. Some are but it seems more and more is going overseas. Pretty soon there will be no manufacuring jobs here. Who is at fault? The unions? Greedy CEO/stock holders? Both? I dont know and that is a whole new discussion. Or the general publics desire for lower priced throw away product?
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garfunkle24
Well-known member
With American educational standards being what they are, I am amused that people believe the USA to be so exceptional in it's manufacturing capabilities.
I agree iron is iron no matter where it come from (eventhough some may think otherwise). I am questioning the legality of calling reprocessed foreign steel as US steel. If that is legal, can Snap On buy steel from China, reprocess it and claim its tools are made with US steel? Who check to see current Snap On tools (with US markings) are not made from recycled/reprocessed foreign steel? Is it even possible?
SpiderGearsMan
Banned
what exactly does canada make ?
fordbroncodave
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this thread needs to go away.
i'm sure a hand full of us are asking where the USA is and others simply don't care so lets leave it at that. its the companies decision to include it or not or not at all if some of its parts are global.
will they ever bring back the USA stampings?
more then likely. demand will probably get the better of them just like they gave into making the hard handles again most likely do to high demand.
I value their decision. I would rather have snap on warrantying my tools then non existent because of nit picky people that want USA incorporated into the logo like they use to do
i'm sure a hand full of us are asking where the USA is and others simply don't care so lets leave it at that. its the companies decision to include it or not or not at all if some of its parts are global.
will they ever bring back the USA stampings?
more then likely. demand will probably get the better of them just like they gave into making the hard handles again most likely do to high demand.
I value their decision. I would rather have snap on warrantying my tools then non existent because of nit picky people that want USA incorporated into the logo like they use to do
Brownsfan
Well-known member
Wow. So this is now going to turn into a Canada vs USA thing. Do you actually know what the standards are? Because I sure dont know nor do I care what the are in USA junior. Or USA'S HAT. What is Canada's main export? Hockey? Just kidding around. But lets not turn this into Americans are fat and stupid and the rest of the world hates us thread
OP
magova1104
Well-known member
Steel is steel? Cheap steels doesn't meet AISI standards. These are the most common used steels for tools:
If steel is steel why we don't buy tools from the dollar store then?
Attachments
Brownsfan
Well-known member
Hockey. You know those Canadian car companies are really producing quality cars these days.
Mario
Well-known member
Do we see a pattern lately in those COO tread?
Yep!
Oh! By the way, our Honda Civic was built right here in Ontario, Canada...
Yep!
Oh! By the way, our Honda Civic was built right here in Ontario, Canada...
These Threads always go Awry.... Obviously Snap on has made a Decision to drop USA off some of there tools, Its Nothing New.. Its been that way for quite sometime. Plain and Simple if it bothers you or you dont Believe them when they list USA as the Country of Origin on the Website and Packaging... DONT BUY There Tools, As long as there Stock is on the Rise, They could care less about the USA stamp and the "Declining" Consumers who worry about that stuff anymore.
Steel is steel? Cheap steels doesn't meet AISI standards. These are the most common used steels for tools:
If steel is steel why we don't buy tools from the dollar store then?
Iron is an element. It is the same if you get it from Earth or Uranus (or the ****). Steel is made by combining iron and other elements. If you put the same elements (and amount) into iron (whether it come from US or China) and perform the same heat treatment, the steel is exactly the same. The reason there are difference in steel quality is due to type (and amount) of mixing elements and the heat treatment process. You can take low quality steel and add proper amount of other elements and heat treatment to get high quality steel (that's what steel foundry do if that is what the customer want).
Maexle
Well-known member
better keep the headquarter and development /research / design department and quality control and high-tech parts production in the USA and produce the low-cost parts somewhere else (as long as the quality is controlled right) to keep the costs down / products affordable, and i still will buy them as long as they are high quality.
It's all about quality control and specs.
I understand it's mainly a patriotic thing here in the thread, but if you want a american product which is designed / developed by american engineers and consists only and ONLY made out of american made parts and made with american machines by american workers.....good luck..... 21st century - globalization .....
I am from Germany, we produce / manufacture in Asia, USA, Russia...etc.... we buy steel from China, Russia, Australia, USA, Sweden, Germany, whatever fits your needs.....
Of course Snap-On or Hazet could make tools with raw material out of the USA / Germany and all the mentioned above....but could we afford it or would be willing to pay the money they would have to charge us ????
Guess what, they could sell some gold plated ratches to some collectors and close the doors after a couple of weeks like so many "good old companies" before, because nobody can afford it / is willing to pay that money anymore... that's it.....
As long as the tool is quality and cheap (not "cheap chunk" but price / value relation), i'll buy it. It's called capitalism, and this my friends, is at least a very american thing !!
It's all about quality control and specs.
I understand it's mainly a patriotic thing here in the thread, but if you want a american product which is designed / developed by american engineers and consists only and ONLY made out of american made parts and made with american machines by american workers.....good luck..... 21st century - globalization .....
I am from Germany, we produce / manufacture in Asia, USA, Russia...etc.... we buy steel from China, Russia, Australia, USA, Sweden, Germany, whatever fits your needs.....
Of course Snap-On or Hazet could make tools with raw material out of the USA / Germany and all the mentioned above....but could we afford it or would be willing to pay the money they would have to charge us ????
Guess what, they could sell some gold plated ratches to some collectors and close the doors after a couple of weeks like so many "good old companies" before, because nobody can afford it / is willing to pay that money anymore... that's it.....
As long as the tool is quality and cheap (not "cheap chunk" but price / value relation), i'll buy it. It's called capitalism, and this my friends, is at least a very american thing !!
WRX/Z28
Well-known member
Personally, I'd rather Snappy stamped their tools with Made in the USA, but as long as they're still made here, I'll still buy them. You conspiracy theorists should check out YouTube once in a while...
At 2:30 in, a clearly American man shows up pushing a bin of ratchets.
at 5:00 exactly, some ratchets say USA, some don't. Who cares... they're both made in the USA.
At 2:30 in, a clearly American man shows up pushing a bin of ratchets.
at 5:00 exactly, some ratchets say USA, some don't. Who cares... they're both made in the USA.
fordbroncodave
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lets ask this question, if the USA conquered a piece of land somewhere in Asia or Australia or Africa and snap on put up a facility on new official US soil would you buy from them if it is technically US soil now?
Almost the same point of view with segregated Alaska from the United States. Would you buy from Alaska even though its still apart of the United States but detached?
Almost the same point of view with segregated Alaska from the United States. Would you buy from Alaska even though its still apart of the United States but detached?
ElectroLight
Well-known member
I had a '73 and '82 full size Ford that were made in Canada. Does that count?
****, I better go check my 93 Mercury!
OP
magova1104
Well-known member
Agree. I understand the word Capitalism since middle school. The original thread was about selling tools as Made in USA when they're NOT. And everybody is free to buy the type of tools that they need/afford/like.
For tools collectors all these threads are invisible. We care about tools details (Manufacturing process, patents, all that) ,country of origin, tool history. For most people here this is annoying, because they just use the tools with their hands, and for doing that, who cares where they are made? As long as they are reliable/affordable and warranted.
I would definitely buy from Alaska. This thread is epic by the way. The number of insults is just astonishing, yet there are still informative posts here and there with some good insight and views.
The best thing anyone who is bothered by Snap-on can do is just stop buying Snap-on which has no COO stamp, and when you get something warrantied, take it back and don't accept it with no COO. That or switch brands guys. Opening up to other tools would be a good solution to your Snap-on trouble. I know if Gray stopped putting the Canada stamp on their tools I would stop buying them, but it wouldn't bother me or drive me insane. I would just quit buying it and find something else to invest in.
Gregster
Well-known member
who cares.. buy what you like and move on
Chuckdeeznutz
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Ok so I came across this forum just googling and to clear things up. I work for SO in the main distribution plant in crystal lake IL. Iv worked there for over 6 years now and I will say I will never never buy a SO tool again. Here is what's still made in USA, sockets,rachets,wrenches,screwdrivers,hammers, and some power tools. The tool boxs are made in the USA as well but other than that nope its all made somewhere else. I'll try and get a copy of the year/plant stamp sheet that's marked on every hand tool and post it.
that would be much appreciated by many of us. thank you
Well, for me to say: "cheating us", its just a manner to talk to my mates here. Actually, they never did on me. ALL MY SNAP ON TOOLS HAS THE USA STAMPED and I pay a lot attention when I buy a tool. For me to buy a tool, its an investment. One time I sold a Snap on screwdriver, that I purchased for $18 in $ 250! I realized then, that I am not alone. A lot of people in the World cares about the USA mark.
And about the cars. I have 27 years working in cars, every day.I know a LOT about it. Honda and Toyota always shows the exact percentage and COO of the parts used in every single car they sell.[/QUOTE]
Honda is not a good example to use..Look up Honda Transmission recall.
thetreshon
Well-known member
Yes - GRAY - although I have called and inquired about a few pieces, if it doesn't say CANADA on it, I don't trust that it's actually made here. I've bought a couple USA made Gray pieces, but only some of the USA made stuff even has 'USA' stamped on it.
And NOW, Gray is laser etching some of their stuff that, over the phone confirmation, is made in Canada - at least that's what their telling me. Some stuff in the shops is the older Stamped Canada stuff, but the newer stuff is the slanted logo, with NO COO. I trust that their hardline unmarked COO stuff is made here, but I don't think I'll drop any money on that stuff. I'd hold out to find NOS Canada stamped product.
4x4gearhead
Well-known member
Not to change the subject, but I have to say that laser etching is a poor substitute for stamping. I fear some of the tools I have that are laser etched will be turned down for warranty at some point because the marks will be gone.
Maexle
Well-known member
with laser etching it's easier to switch brand lettering after the tool is made....same production line, different brands
egnorant
Well-known member
The real fear here is that Snap On, long an icon of American quality and synonymous with "THE BEST", is showing signs of being less than its reputation.
Corporations are full of bright young bean counters with ideas of how to increase profits by any means necessary.
Most vulnerable are the brands with good reputations..Craftsman anyone?
While I have mostly studied this phenomena in the restaurant industry, I have noticed it in electronics, automotive and even supermarket foods.
Many of us will pay a little extra for "Made in USA" products and feel cheated knowing that there are lobbyists seeking to redefine what "Made in USA" actually stands for.
Are these percentages figured by weight? number of parts? cost of processes? Does forged in Texas but finished, treated and plated in Mexico still count as a part made in USA?
Lack of the "Made in USA" stamp may be a step for global sales so that the rest of the world might get made in China Snap On tools but are living off the American Snap On reputation.
Someone made a decision to NOT stamp their tools with "Made in USA".
A very bad sign as I see it!
Bruce
Corporations are full of bright young bean counters with ideas of how to increase profits by any means necessary.
Most vulnerable are the brands with good reputations..Craftsman anyone?
While I have mostly studied this phenomena in the restaurant industry, I have noticed it in electronics, automotive and even supermarket foods.
Many of us will pay a little extra for "Made in USA" products and feel cheated knowing that there are lobbyists seeking to redefine what "Made in USA" actually stands for.
Are these percentages figured by weight? number of parts? cost of processes? Does forged in Texas but finished, treated and plated in Mexico still count as a part made in USA?
Lack of the "Made in USA" stamp may be a step for global sales so that the rest of the world might get made in China Snap On tools but are living off the American Snap On reputation.
Someone made a decision to NOT stamp their tools with "Made in USA".
A very bad sign as I see it!
Bruce
IndyGarage
Well-known member
Let's face it. America is no longer a value leader, or a quality leader, or sometimes a design leader in the world.
Every customer I deal with tells me they want quality over price - and almost every time, when I give them a choice, they choose price over everything else - I can't think of a single time in the past four years when this was the case. They usually pick the lowest price option and try to negotiate down from there.
I'm guessing snap-on is not immune to price pressure, and if so, they have no choice but to find lower cost alternatives - and those lower cost alternatives are not sourced in the US.
I bet it is a painful decision to move offshore for a tool company, as some tool customers are in the last bastion of "buy American" movement.
I don't know Snap-on's specific situation; however it is a much easier decision for the third or fourth replacement CEO of a company with declining profits to move away from the past. Unless you are willing to own the company and lose money on your investment (I don't know a single person who is) then you are demanding that profits increase or stay steady and not decline.
Every customer I deal with tells me they want quality over price - and almost every time, when I give them a choice, they choose price over everything else - I can't think of a single time in the past four years when this was the case. They usually pick the lowest price option and try to negotiate down from there.
I'm guessing snap-on is not immune to price pressure, and if so, they have no choice but to find lower cost alternatives - and those lower cost alternatives are not sourced in the US.
I bet it is a painful decision to move offshore for a tool company, as some tool customers are in the last bastion of "buy American" movement.
I don't know Snap-on's specific situation; however it is a much easier decision for the third or fourth replacement CEO of a company with declining profits to move away from the past. Unless you are willing to own the company and lose money on your investment (I don't know a single person who is) then you are demanding that profits increase or stay steady and not decline.
This should be easy enough to figure. Your post implies that s-o might be seeing declining profits. No disrespect meant by that. Does anyone here own stock? Should be easy enough to see if they are "adapting to a global market", or "offshoring to CONTINUE to increase profits"
HUGE difference between the two, and i think most corporations are happy to cry the first case, when it reality the second statement is accurate. Plenty of companies doing extremely well these days.....the question is, is S-O one of them?
lennoxlennox
Banned
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You are certainly correct, you are guessing & you don't know
I don't know why people sit and speculate and conjecture based on their assumptions of how things are when the information is readily available.
Snapon Operating Earnings (Before Financial Services as a % of net Sales)
2011 - 13.5%
2010 - 12.3%
2009 - 9.9% (hmmm I wonder if there is a correlation here in this year with the auto industry taking a beating?)
2008 - 12.3%
2007 - 10.6%
2006 - 7.6%
2005 - 6.5%
maybe this quote should be attributed to Snapon instead of Mark Twain
"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated"
.
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Good point. From a collector standpoint I would not want to own any Snap-on tools that didn't have a COO stamp. I'm not a big Snap-on guy because I've never felt comfortable paying their extreme mark-up. The bit of Snap-on I do have would all be considered vintage I believe. I don't think it's in such a patriotic sense either considering I'm Canadian. I would just rather have my Snap-on say "USA" than be blank. I don't care if it IS made in USA, if it's blank it just doesn't feel right in my hand. They went from "Forged in USA" to "Made in USA" to "USA" to "blank." That's progress for you.For tools collectors all these threads are invisible. We care about tools details (Manufacturing process, patents, all that) ,country of origin, tool history. For most people here this is annoying, because they just use the tools with their hands, and for doing that, who cares where they are made? As long as they are reliable/affordable and warranted.
That and older stuff always has more character to it. Who used this wrench, what did the wrench do or see in its lifetime, how did it get that ding or scratch? A new shiny wrench hanging up on the shelf doesn't have much of a story to it to begin with, and losing the COO stamp takes away further from the character of a tool. Laser etching also can greatly devalue a tool's history in time as mentioned by other posters. The new way that a lot of tool brands are headed towards is a nightmare for collectors and enthusiasts, but it's a non-issue for the people who don't care about anything beyond price and use.
OP
magova1104
Well-known member
Exactly! I'm not a businessman, I have no investments in the stock market, then I would be in another forum and not in Garage Journal.
I understand that things have changed and companies have to "stick to the plan" or cease to exist. "The world is a nest where all are caught ******* with everyone."
I use my snap on tools with great pride and one of the things that made me buy them is NOT JUST THE WORD: MADE IN USA ,ITS THE PRIDE AND THE LEGEND OF SNAP ON TOOLS, USA.
Now you can buy tools with the same name in any store.
In certain way I have to thank all these changes, as all my tools not only appreciate more, they worth more.
Really? The stamping changes the way a tool feels in your hand. I just don't get it.
Can you offer a bit more of an interpretation of those numbers, for those of us ignorant of the stock market? Obviously, the percentages are going up, but how do they compare to competition, both in the tool world, and the markets overall...
Sureshot
ALLIANCE MEMBER
SO and HD are prime examples of a superior marketing machine playing on your patriotic side. Paint it red and stick a SO decal on it and mark it up 50% over MSRP anywhere else. Same with HD. Paint it Black and Orange and mark it up. As long as people are willing to part with their money for those reasons there will be people willing to take it.
I have a couple SO items I bought used and some is high quality so I am not slagging the good stuff you just need to disern the good and bad.
Same as the blanket statement regarding vehichle brands on here. People grow up or wake up whatever the case. Every brand has lemons and every brand has had wonderful vehicles.
Cabella's is another brand that I think is a little over rated.
I have a couple SO items I bought used and some is high quality so I am not slagging the good stuff you just need to disern the good and bad.
Same as the blanket statement regarding vehichle brands on here. People grow up or wake up whatever the case. Every brand has lemons and every brand has had wonderful vehicles.
Cabella's is another brand that I think is a little over rated.
lennoxlennox
Banned
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are you serious?
i'm not a stock broker, i just play one on tv
are you the same guy that asked to borrow tools from the other member?