Snap On is cheating us?

[magova1104]

Really? The stamping changes the way a tool feels in your hand.


I have the same disease!

 

[1982fxr]

are you serious?

i'm not a stock broker, i just play one on tv


are you the same guy that asked to borrow tools from the other member?

uhhh, yeah, right I try to borrow tools on here all the time wtf are you talking about?

 

[lennoxlennox]

uhhh, yeah, right I try to borrow tools on here all the time wtf are you talking about?

It's a joke


but as for the wtf am I talking about... it's more like that's why the joke was posed at you... you said...

Can you offer a bit more of an interpretation of those numbers, for those of us ignorant of the stock market? Obviously, the percentages are going up, but how do they compare to competition, both in the tool world, and the markets overall...

So.... you want me to financially interpret the numbers... do some financial analysis for you? ok... as the numbers show...there % of profits have trended steadily up... interpretation... they aren't suffering... if you take home more money each year... read.... this is a good thing

Now for the real work.... let me get this straight.... YOU want ME to go out... get financial information on their competition... interpret that.... do a competitive analysis.... not only in the tool world... but the markets overall...

and we don't see a problem with this request???

 

[Coach James]

http://www1.snapon.com/display/233/Q1_2012_Earnings_Release_FINAL.pdf

http://financials.morningstar.com/ratios/r.html?t=SNA&region=USA&culture=en-US

Net earnings, gross earnings, gross revenue are up from same quarter last year. Net numbers dipped when the economy tanked but have been climbing back as of late. The stock price has doubled in the last 10 years, about 7% appreciation per year.

Coach

 

[Sureshot]

It's a joke


but as for the wtf am I talking about... it's more like that's why the joke was posed at you... you said...




So.... you want me to financially interpret the numbers... do some financial analysis for you? ok... as the numbers show...there % of profits have trended steadily up... interpretation... they aren't suffering... if you take home more money each year... read.... this is a good thing

Now for the real work.... let me get this straight.... YOU want ME to go out... get financial information on their competition... interpret that.... do a competitive analysis.... not only in the tool world... but the markets overall...

and we don't see a problem with this request???

It only shows they maintain margin not make more money.

 

[lennoxlennox]

It only shows they maintain margin not make more money.

step right up... pick a card... any card

you want to pick margin % card?, revenue card? net income card?, cash flow card?

the trend is up


the point was there were people stating their demise... the numbers were just an illustration that the facts don't bear out the assumptions

this wasn't meant for anything else... certainly not to give my extremely naive and amateur financial analysis and stock comparison knowledge

 

[bcradio]

step right up... pick a card... any card

you want to pick margin % card?, revenue card? net income card?, cash flow card?

the trend is up


the point was there were people stating their demise... the numbers were just an illustration that the facts don't bear out the assumptions

this wasn't meant for anything else... certainly not to give my extremely naive and amateur financial analysis and stock comparison knowledge

Sorry, but gotta **** in here... I'm not sure if this was posted elsewhere or not. What did you end up spending your $10k on?

That would require extensive planning if I was doing it... I'd rather have tools over a new box myself.

 

[mmack66]

what exactly does canada make ?

American automobiles.

 

[lennoxlennox]

Sorry, but gotta **** in here... I'm not sure if this was posted elsewhere or not. What did you end up spending your $10k on?

That would require extensive planning if I was doing it... I'd rather have tools over a new box myself.

lol... you aren't wrong there... it took a lot of planning

i had to create a spreadsheet and figure out what i needed and the best way to spend the $10k (well it was less those b@st@rds deducted tax - lol) so more like 9.2

and yes it was tools... was great... gave me a great base

(i actually won a box as well...top and bottom classic 78 - sold it at a steep discount - as I already had a top and bottom krl)

thanks for asking

 

[1982fxr]

It's a joke


but as for the wtf am I talking about... it's more like that's why the joke was posed at you... you said...




So.... you want me to financially interpret the numbers... do some financial analysis for you? ok... as the numbers show...there % of profits have trended steadily up... interpretation... they aren't suffering... if you take home more money each year... read.... this is a good thing

Now for the real work.... let me get this straight.... YOU want ME to go out... get financial information on their competition... interpret that.... do a competitive analysis.... not only in the tool world... but the markets overall...

and we don't see a problem with this request???

you posted some numbers on a discussion forum and I asked you about them. 1,000 apologies.

take a xanax pal

 

[magova1104]

It's a joke


but as for the wtf am I talking about... it's more like that's why the joke was posed at you... you said...




So.... you want me to financially interpret the numbers... do some financial analysis for you? ok... as the numbers show...there % of profits have trended steadily up... interpretation... they aren't suffering... if you take home more money each year... read.... this is a good thing

Now for the real work.... let me get this straight.... YOU want ME to go out... get financial information on their competition... interpret that.... do a competitive analysis.... not only in the tool world... but the markets overall...

and we don't see a problem with this request???

Wait a minute. If all these numbers indicate that Snap on is not "suffering" financially, and earn more money each year.
It seems that although for more crazy and stupid that my thread looks, more than someone it's getting the truth afloat.
If Snap on is making its tools in Asia (I do not know why somebody assumed that the internal parts of the dual 80 ratchets are made in Spain?, not that many tools are made there, but I know that adjustable wrenches, say Made in Spain currently, and are not blank) means that they are doing that to save money, not to "globalize".
So if they are saving money by acquiring cheaper parts from Asia, and of course, making more money with us (the poor people), why not lower their prices as Sears is doing and be more HONEST.
They are selling us tools that they get cheaper, they took the "nice" Made in USA and they earn more money every year! (that deserves a WTF!)
I have no money in the stock market, but I have an investment in my Snap on tools and truly I say this: "I feel that now they are DEVALUING MY TOOLS by selling junk made ​​in China at Pep Boys and ACE Hardware, or tools with suspicious COO.
As I said before, I don't really care about the tools or ****** preferences of others.
From now on we shall seek to find more Snap on tools made ​​in another era.

 

[lennoxlennox]

you posted some numbers on a discussion forum and I asked you about them. 1,000 apologies.

take a xanax pal

i'll take it with a beer...lol

seriously dude... i'm not trying to piss you off... but your question in your mind... if i can make a comparison... is like from your point you are asking someone to fill your tank up with gas (you don't see it as complex - but a simple question)... but in reality what is being asked is to rebuild the engine...

that's the reason i made the joke... you don't know what you are asking... they have analysts that spend their whole career doing nothing but reviewing companies in the tool manufacturing industry and doing those types of comparisons... to ask me to do that is... well you get it... and two... to ask someone on a tool board for their financial view and interpretation... well i think you get it

so.... that's really it

 

[flashman]

It's a joke


but as for the wtf am I talking about... it's more like that's why the joke was posed at you... you said...




So.... you want me to financially interpret the numbers... do some financial analysis for you? ok... as the numbers show...there % of profits have trended steadily up... interpretation... they aren't suffering... if you take home more money each year... read.... this is a good thing

Now for the real work.... let me get this straight.... YOU want ME to go out... get financial information on their competition... interpret that.... do a competitive analysis.... not only in the tool world... but the markets overall...

and we don't see a problem with this request???

I get your point, but can you use less ellipsis and more punctuation? That would make your point even more clear to everyone else.

 

[Displaced Hokie]

why not lower their prices as Sears is doing and be more HONEST.
They are selling us tools that they get cheaper, they took the "nice" Made in USA and they earn more money every year! (that deserves a WTF!)

That is called making a profit, and that is what they are in business to do. Those profits are expressed as dividends to stock holders, who are often owned by mutual funds. So, when SnapOn makes money, granny and granddad who have investments that contain S.O. get to eat or buy Junior a new bike.

A 10-13% return that was shown in the stats is honestly not that great in my mind.

Again, I don't like the removing the USA stamp and we as customers can demand it go back before we buy anything else. That is Capitolism...as long as the Snap-On tards put their money where their mouth is and are ready to move on to some other company that WILL put USA on there. If not, then don't complain about what S.O. does.

 

[1982fxr]

i'll take it with a beer...lol

seriously dude... i'm not trying to piss you off... but your question in your mind... if i can make a comparison... is like from your point you are asking someone to fill your tank up with gas (you don't see it as complex - but a simple question)... but in reality what is being asked is to rebuild the engine...

that's the reason i made the joke... you don't know what you are asking... they have analysts that spend their whole career doing nothing but reviewing companies in the tool manufacturing industry and doing those types of comparisons... to ask me to do that is... well you get it... and two... to ask someone on a tool board for their financial view and interpretation... well i think you get it

so.... that's really it

I am far from pissed.

wouldn't it just be easier to say something like "all this stock market stuff is extremely complicated, and the answer to your question would probably require it's own forum. I posted a few numbers that I understand, but I really can't elaborate on them as they're just an example of an escalating percentage. The whole picture is very large in both depth and scope, I think"

5 lines of text and no insults. doesn't seem so hard

 

[lennoxlennox]

I am far from pissed.

wouldn't it just be easier to say something like "all this stock market stuff is extremely complicated, and the answer to your question would probably require it's own forum. I posted a few numbers that I understand, but I really can't elaborate on them as they're just an example of an escalating percentage. The whole picture is very large in both depth and scope, I think"

5 lines of text and no insults. doesn't seem so hard

ok... i'm not going to keep this going... i'm looking for the xanex

 

[garfunkle24]

Can we just let this thread die? Please?

 

[magova1104]

Can we just let this thread die? Please?

Is not easier simply to ignore it? So you do not have to write something where NOT WANT?

 

[garfunkle24]

Is not easier simply to ignore it? So you do not have to write something where NOT WANT?

Touche.

 

[otis66]

Honda Passport is a rebadge Isuzu Redeo and Isuzu is 10% owned by GM back then, so I wouldn't be surprise if it has GM transmission. GM also use Honda engine and transmission in their redline trim vehicles especially Saturn.

You guys need to google Honda Transmission recall/ class action.

 

[TwoInch]

i know most everyone is over this thread, but i was diggin a little the other day about COO and all that jive.

found this on coo by the FTC

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard

maybe there is more to the story on why the USA is disappearing from the tools? maybe the site will be updated at some later time? i have not bought anything new from snap on, does the packaging say USA now that many of the hard tools dont?

i dont believe the "Global Market" jive. time will tell.

 

[franzdom]

The single ratchets don't come with any packaging.

 

[NastyNate]

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standar

Bad link

 

[richfinn]

I really don't see why they can't stamp USA on the newer ratchets. Some people here speculate that it's because they are trying to gear towards international sales, but I think that's just made up BS.

I really want to know the truth behind why they do not stamp USA on their tools when it's made in the USA.

I have been a Snap On customer for 20 odd years (Snap On UK) and I can honestly say until I joined this site I never once even noticed let alone looked for or cared less about the COO stamped on a tool during purchase.

I would say I represent about 90% of Snap On customers world wide including those who live in the States. If we dont care, why should Snap On?

The world is still a pretty big place outside the USA and the 10% of you you who actually care about COO

 

[4x4gearhead]

It would be nice to see more than speculation on this subject. Until then it is just hear-say.

 

[magova1104]

You guys need to google Honda Transmission recall/ class action.

Yes. I google it already. It says GM fucked up with the saturn ion and Vue 2003-2005 with the CVT transmission and they lost 100 millions in claims. And they decide to solve the problem replacing the trans with a Honda, they had some issues but not like before.

 

[TwoInch]

sorry bout the bad link guys. thanks for fixin it.

you are absolutely correct, it is just speculation.

but i just cant fathom a bread and butter USA company, deciding to take the USA of of a tool, unless they had to for legal reasons. snap on is proud of their heritage from what i can tell, and why would they not want people in other countries that use their products, to know where they were made? that "global market" explanation just makes absolutely ZERO sense to me personally.

tools do not need a COO for out of country production, obviously, such as craftsman has done. no marking what-so-ever on the piece itself.

 

[TwoInch]

I would say I represent about 90% of Snap On customers world wide including those who live in the States. If we dont care, why should Snap On?

The world is still a pretty big place outside the USA and the 10% of you you who actually care about COO

companies that are USA based, generally are very proud of that fact.

look at channellock stuff... "Fiercely Made In The USA"

why would they have ever stamped them USA in the first place?

 

[magova1104]

I have been a Snap On customer for 20 odd years (Snap On UK) and I can honestly say until I joined this site I never once even noticed let alone looked for or cared less about the COO stamped on a tool during purchase.

I would say I represent about 90% of Snap On customers world wide including those who live in the States. If we dont care, why should Snap On?

The world is still a pretty big place outside the USA and the 10% of you you who actually care about COO

I understand your point. Since you are NOT USA citizen. Here we are talking about a different issue: Snap on is buying CHEAPER tools made in China and they are MAKING a lot of F>>ing money selling lower quality tools at the same cost. Just try some of the new pliers, or any tool without the USA stamp and you will understand what we are talking. We are not the best country of the world, but we use to make the best tools.

 

[4x4gearhead]

sorry bout the bad link guys. thanks for fixin it.

you are absolutely correct, it is just speculation.

but i just cant fathom a bread and butter USA company, deciding to take the USA of of a tool, unless they had to for legal reasons. snap on is proud of their heritage from what i can tell, and why would they not want people in other countries that use their products, to know where they were made? that "global market" explanation just makes absolutely ZERO sense to me personally.

tools do not need a COO for out of country production, obviously, such as craftsman has done. no marking what-so-ever on the piece itself.

I completely agree, If I had a company that for the past 90 years was referred to as an "American Legend" I think I would want to keep the drive alive. I would be very disappointed if this werent the case.

 

[Syndicate]

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard


Here's the working link. The person who posted it before had cut off one letter.

Here's a quick excerpt of some pertinent info:

Thanks for clearing up that link.
Here is my take on it all. Just mere observations with dealing with many snap on reps over the last 25 yrs and selling the **** out of them tools.

1) I have never personally had a problem with any of there tools. They all have worked for the tools intended purpose. I have broken some, but again, that was related to user error and not tool failing to perform as specs permit.
2) I have sold both on truck and off of truck, many of these tools. They sell themselves for 1 simple reason. Snap-on name. What does the name mean? You can do research both in person and on the web. You will find that the name means that this company stands behind the tools that they sell, that they offer many types of tools for the professional as well as the do it your selfer type of person.
3) While over 80% of the tools are in fact made in the USA, there are some that are made over seas. Taiwon, Portugal, and Switzerland are the main 3. Some of the parts to form a tool, ie Cases, mechanical mechanisms, and moving parts are in fact made in China. However, there is no proof as such, or as yet to be proven, that the drivers, ratchets, or wrenches are made in China. People are searching but this has yet to be proven.
4) There are some people, famous people I might add, who also have questioned Snap-on in a public view about the reasoning against not putting USA in or on the tools. Mainly Professional Engineers in the Racing professions. This yet has to be answered to the public. When will this be answered? I hope soon.
5) The web is full of forums similar to this one, and very many threads similar to this one asking the same questions. The fact remains, Snap-on will warranty the tools just like they have been for many years, as they still stand behind the tools they sell. They do now however, enforce a policy that they have been lax on for many years. That policy states that you must provide proof of purchase to do a warranty. You will get many variations of this policy whether you ask several truck routes, call snap-on customer service, or visit them in person at any of the factories or plants throughout.
6) There are several tool box and garage QUEENS on this forum and in many of the other forums. There are also several hard working gents and gals who when you look at their tools, it looks like they need replacing, or at the very least a major clean job. It is these folks in particular, that I would pay attention to what they have to say, and what their opinions are on this matter, as you can tell that they have and do actually use their tools on a daily basis, and as such, they have a truer opinion on how the tools hold up.
I would also pay attention to the truck reps that we have on this forum, as they deal with these type of people everyday the truck leaves their home and goes out to each shop to meet these people, and supply them with these tools, whether or not they have USA on them or Not!

Just mere observations of the facts presented before us all. I will continue to purchase MAC tools to use, because I know I would not sell them as they do not fetch prices like Snap-on tools do. I will continue to buy both new and used Snap-on tools, because that is what brings in the prices, and it seems to be what the professional mechanic wants. Thank you.

 

[magova1104]

sorry bout the bad link guys. thanks for fixin it.

you are absolutely correct, it is just speculation.

but i just cant fathom a bread and butter USA company, deciding to take the USA of of a tool, unless they had to for legal reasons. snap on is proud of their heritage from what i can tell, and why would they not want people in other countries that use their products, to know where they were made? that "global market" explanation just makes absolutely ZERO sense to me personally.

tools do not need a COO for out of country production, obviously, such as craftsman has done. no marking what-so-ever on the piece itself.

Well. snap on has a LOT of years selling their tools worldwide with the USA stamped. In Japan,for example,they love Snap on not just because they look good, because they know they are well made in USA! Why they would buy a tool made in China? Removing the USA stamp is just because one thing: They are NOT MADE IN USA, unless completely. And this is not speculation, I am to old for believe in UFOS and that **** of: "Oh is just because we want to globalize". Snap on is CHEATING US. If you own a snap on tool without the USA stamp, I understand your anger with this thread. Just ignore it, and when you break that cheap tool,you will be more than welcome back.

 

[TwoInch]

correct me if i am wrong, but i faintly remember reading on here a while back, that the guts in some of the ratchets are made in spain(?) or something along those lines. am i remembering this correctly?

if so, that would surely not allow them to claim USA on the tool.

there is much more pertinent inormation on COO in that link i posted, more than was quoted above. they go into detail on what is allowed and what isnt, and a ton of other stuff. with laymans examples of each scenario. long read, but informative.

 

[FLRover]

Anyone thought to ring Snap On and just ask why???

 

[richfinn]

I understand your point. Since you are NOT USA citizen. Here we are talking about a different issue: Snap on is buying CHEAPER tools made in China and they are MAKING a lot of F>>ing money selling lower quality tools at the same cost. Just try some of the new pliers, or any tool without the USA stamp and you will understand what we are talking. We are not the best country of the world, but we use to make the best tools.

I think America still makes some of the finest hand tools in the world, its just that some product lines and parts are made in other countries including China. I think to assume that things made in China are by default inferior to goods produced in the West is totally ridiculous. Sure China mass produces a lot of cheap **** (at the behest of the western companies utilising the cheaper labour). That does not mean everything they make is **** (or that all the western companies ask them to make ****). In fact I suspect they can make anything to any quality in any quantity you require including top end tools/electronics. Part of the problem is that we in the west think that everyone who lives in China is brainwashed by communism and the hundreds of years of craftsmanship/innovation and pride that preceded this was wiped out.

I live thousands of miles from both China and the USA, It makes no difference to me where my Snap On ratchet was made as long as the quality is there I really don,t care.

Would I pay more if it was made by Joe in Kenosha?

or by Li in Beijing?

or by Mick in Manchester?

By removing the C.O.O. I,m never gonna know who made it, which works for me to be honest as it really does not matter one Iota, unless your looking at it from a purely political viewpoint (which I understand but disagree with)

 

[BHH]

correct me if i am wrong, but i faintly remember reading on here a while back, that the guts in some of the ratchets are made in spain(?) or something along those lines. am i remembering this correctly?

if so, that would surely not allow them to claim USA on the tool.

there is much more pertinent inormation on COO in that link i posted, more than was quoted above. they go into detail on what is allowed and what isnt, and a ton of other stuff. with laymans examples of each scenario. long read, but informative.

It was someones theory because they looked the same. There is no actual evidence that I have read that supports this.

 

[Chuckdeeznutz]

Ok this thread is just getting way outta hand. So again ill clarify this, ALL RACHETS,SOCKETS,SCREWDRIVERS,WRENCHES, AND PLIERS ARE MADE HERE IN USA! the biggest plant is in Milwaukee WI. I see thousands of these items come in everyday and there from the same plants everytime.

 

[magova1104]

I think America still makes some of the finest hand tools in the world, its just that some product lines and parts are made in other countries including China. I think to assume that things made in China are by default inferior to goods produced in the West is totally ridiculous. Sure China mass produces a lot of cheap **** (at the behest of the western companies utilising the cheaper labour). That does not mean everything they make is **** (or that all the western companies ask them to make ****). In fact I suspect they can make anything to any quality in any quantity you require including top end tools/electronics. Part of the problem is that we in the west think that everyone who lives in China is brainwashed by communism and the hundreds of years of craftsmanship/innovation and pride that preceded this was wiped out.

I live thousands of miles from both China and the USA, It makes no difference to me where my Snap On ratchet was made as long as the quality is there I really don,t care.

Would I pay more if it was made by Joe in Kenosha?

or by Li in Beijing?

or by Mick in Manchester?

By removing the C.O.O. I,m never gonna know who made it, which works for me to be honest as it really does not matter one Iota, unless your looking at it from a purely political viewpoint (which I understand but disagree with)

Certainly, not too many people get the point here. Like I said before, every country has their proud of something. We all know that nobody competes with China in electronics. Maybe the Jaguars are not made in England like before,and who cares, they maybe went bankrupt, its understandable. But Snap on is making MORE MONEY than ever making tools cheaper than ever, and if the people think it doesn't matter where are the tools made, then we will have a BIG fu..kn problem later: China will own the world. This is not simple as it looks. Is not just like: " As long as they still honor the warranty, I don't care who made the tool". That is the same reason why USA has WORST ECONOMY in decades. We let the bigger investors do whatever they want. We should stop thinking in the present and think more in the future.

 

[magova1104]

Ok this thread is just getting way outta hand. So again ill clarify this, ALL RACHETS,SOCKETS,SCREWDRIVERS,WRENCHES, AND PLIERS ARE MADE HERE IN USA! the biggest plant is in Milwaukee WI. I see thousands of these items come in everyday and there from the same plants everytime.

If I am correct, the plant in Crystal Lake is only warehouse, and some manufacturing plants in Wisconsin were closed since 2004.
The picture that you had posted is just another proof. Thanks for posting it. The website, people thoughts and speculations are not a proof.

 

[Chuckdeeznutz]

Yes the warehouse in crystal lake is the main hub for everything! At my building ALL THE SCREWDRIVERS AND EVERY SNAPON SET YOU BUY IS PUT TOGETHER IN THAT BUILDING. yes some plants were closed down but the biggest is in Milwaukee and still opperational. All the tool boxs are made in Pennsylvania and Georgia.