Snap On is cheating us?

[richfinn]

Certainly, not too many people get the point here. Like I said before, every country has their proud of something. We all know that nobody competes with China in electronics. Maybe the Jaguars are not made in England like before,and who cares, they maybe went bankrupt, its understandable. But Snap on is making MORE MONEY than ever making tools cheaper than ever, and if the people think it doesn't matter where are the tools made, then we will have a BIG fu..kn problem later: China will own the world. This is not simple as it looks. Is not just like: " As long as they still honor the warranty, I don't care who made the tool". That is the same reason why USA has WORST ECONOMY in decades. We let the bigger investors do whatever they want. We should stop thinking in the present and think more in the future.

This is the bit I disagree with, its all about politics

 

[Sureshot]

Ok this thread is just getting way outta hand. So again ill clarify this, ALL RACHETS,SOCKETS,SCREWDRIVERS,WRENCHES, AND PLIERS ARE MADE HERE IN USA! the biggest plant is in Milwaukee WI. I see thousands of these items come in everyday and there from the same plants everytime.

You are probably just making that up. You are Chinese aren't you???

 

[magova1104]

This is from the Business Model Institute (BMI):

It is difficult to understand why Snap-On would spend 90 years building one of the top brands in the industry and then self-sabotage its own brand. As the Chinese are looking for ways to exit the low-margin cheap goods market and move upstream to a Snap-On style business model, Snap-On abandons the very position which others envy. A premium set of 14 Snap-On wrenches cost $677.30 vs. a similar set at Sears for $69.99. For most fixer-uppers, the Sears wrenches are more than adequate. However, ask your mechanic if the Sears wrenches will suffice. Look in the shop at his or her toolbox and you will most likely see the Snap-On badge of honor. Professional technicians have had a strong brand loyalty towards Snap-On.

It will be interesting to see if the “we make the best and most expensive tools but also have this cheap stuff” business model will have an adverse affect on the Snap-On business model. The grass always seems greener on the side of customer segments not sold. However, history is full of examples of ill-thought line extensions and brand changes.

 

[richfinn]

This is from the Business Model Institute (BMI):

It is difficult to understand why Snap-On would spend 90 years building one of the top brands in the industry and then self-sabotage its own brand. As the Chinese are looking for ways to exit the low-margin cheap goods market and move upstream to a Snap-On style business model, Snap-On abandons the very position which others envy. A premium set of 14 Snap-On wrenches cost $677.30 vs. a similar set at Sears for $69.99. For most fixer-uppers, the Sears wrenches are more than adequate. However, ask your mechanic if the Sears wrenches will suffice. Look in the shop at his or her toolbox and you will most likely see the Snap-On badge of honor. Professional technicians have had a strong brand loyalty towards Snap-On.

It will be interesting to see if the “we make the best and most expensive tools but also have this cheap stuff” business model will have an adverse affect on the Snap-On business model. The grass always seems greener on the side of customer segments not sold. However, history is full of examples of ill-thought line extensions and brand changes.

If you read back through the thread and look at your own observations it looks like they have got the business model correct.

1. They started to move production overseas in 2004 ????

2. 8 years later bumper profits ???

3. A multinational Army of fans worldwide who could care less about C.O.O.?

4. The people at BMI write articles about business/Snap On do it for real

 

[chadster1]

All the tool boxs are made in Pennsylvania and Georgia.

huh? Don't you mean Algona, Iowa.

 

[magova1104]

This is one of the companies that Snap on owns in China. They make pliers,wrenches and impact guns.

http://www.snapontool.com.cn/Productslist.asp?Classid=3

 

[FLRover]

So yeah no one has just called and asked?


Instead of this internet fight

 

[Chuckdeeznutz]

Yes the crystal lake facility is the main warehouse hub which ships to everywhere in the world. All of the sets you buy are made here. That means the sockets,trays,and shrink wrap and even the magnetic trays ate all put together in my building. Even the screwdrivers are made here. Yes some of the plants in wi have closed but the one in Milwaukee is still running and the largest. The tool boxs are made in Pennsylvaniaand georgia. There is another plant in Carson city NV. I see thousands of tools everyday and for the people who think that there made in China or wherever are clearly misunderstood. Yes do they have faults but what tool company doesn't. When you buy a SO product and its labeled snapon you know its a great tool and yes they do buy other manufacture tools and slap there name on it. But without a doubt there hand tools are made here and the raw materials are from USA. Everytime your impact gun or air rachet or cordless tool comes in for repair it is fixed in my building and all the bad parts are placed in a bin and sold to a scrap yard 3 miles away. If snapons tools where such **** then why did they have one of the best years to date in 2011 and so far in 2012 a huge gain. If you buy a tool for $100 I will agree it should last a life time. I stand behind snapon on there products just not the price.

 

[Chuckdeeznutz]

Yes sorry algona Iowa.

 

[franzdom]

I wonder if Snap-On appreciates you posting here, I know my company would have a cow if I mention them on the internet.

 

[Syndicate]

Yes the crystal lake facility is the main warehouse hub which ships to everywhere in the world. All of the sets you buy are made here. That means the sockets,trays,and shrink wrap and even the magnetic trays ate all put together in my building. Even the screwdrivers are made here. Yes some of the plants in wi have closed but the one in Milwaukee is still running and the largest. The tool boxs are made in Pennsylvaniaand georgia. There is another plant in Carson city NV. I see thousands of tools everyday and for the people who think that there made in China or wherever are clearly misunderstood. Yes do they have faults but what tool company doesn't. When you buy a SO product and its labeled snapon you know its a great tool and yes they do buy other manufacture tools and slap there name on it. But without a doubt there hand tools are made here and the raw materials are from USA. Everytime your impact gun or air rachet or cordless tool comes in for repair it is fixed in my building and all the bad parts are placed in a bin and sold to a scrap yard 3 miles away. If snapons tools where such **** then why did they have one of the best years to date in 2011 and so far in 2012 a huge gain. If you buy a tool for $100 I will agree it should last a life time. I stand behind snapon on there products just not the price.

Yes the warehouse in crystal lake is the main hub for everything! At my building ALL THE SCREWDRIVERS AND EVERY SNAPON SET YOU BUY IS PUT TOGETHER IN THAT BUILDING. yes some plants were closed down but the biggest is in Milwaukee and still opperational. All the tool boxs are made in Pennsylvania and Georgia.

Apparently you have not been around too long in the tool world. Here is a list of some of the OTHER places where stuff is made by SNAP-ON INCLUDING the sites and whether or not they own them or lease the buildings. Notice CHINA is in this list!! Straight off the web! This is what I meant by "doing your due diligence" in your searching on this matter.

The following table provides information about each of Snap-on’s principal manufacturing locations and distribution centers (exceeding 50,000 square feet) as of December 29, 2007:
Location
Type of Property
Owned/Leased
Segment*
U.S. Locations:
Elkmont, Alabama
Manufacturing
Owned
SOT
Conway, Arkansas
Manufacturing
Leased
C&I
City of Industry, California
Manufacturing
Leased
C&I
Escondido, California
Manufacturing
Leased
C&I
San Jose, California
Manufacturing
Leased
D&I
Columbus, Georgia
Distribution
Owned
C&I
Crystal Lake, Illinois
Distribution
Owned and Leased
SOT
Algona, Iowa
Manufacturing
Owned
SOT
Olive Branch, Mississippi
Distribution
Owned
SOT
Carson City, Nevada
Distribution
Owned and Leased
SOT
Murphy, North Carolina
Manufacturing and distribution
Owned
C&I
Robesonia, Pennsylvania
Distribution
Owned
SOT
Elizabethton, Tennessee
Manufacturing
Owned
SOT
Kenosha, Wisconsin
Distribution and corporate
Owned
SOT, C&I, D&I
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Manufacturing
Owned
SOT
OVER SEAS PLANTS

Non-U.S. Locations:
Santo Tome, Argentina
Manufacturing
Owned
C&I
Minsk, Belarus
Manufacturing
Leased
C&I
Santa Barbara D'oeste, Brazil
Manufacturing and distribution
Owned
C&I
Mississauga, Canada
Manufacturing
Leased
C&I
Newmarket, Canada
Manufacturing and distribution
Owned
SOT
Kunshan, China
Manufacturing
Owned
C&I
Kettering, England
Distribution
Owned
SOT and C&I
Rotherham, England
Manufacturing
Leased
C&I
Bourges, France
Manufacturing and distribution
Leased
C&I
Unterneukirchen, Germany
Manufacturing
Leased
C&I
Sopron, Hungary
Manufacturing
Owned
C&I
Correggio, Italy
Manufacturing
Owned
C&I
Tokyo, Japan
Distribution
Leased
SOT
Helmond, the Netherlands
Distribution
Owned
C&I
Vila do Conde, Portugal
Manufacturing
Owned
C&I
Irun, Spain
Manufacturing
Owned
C&I
Vitoria, Spain
Manufacturing and distribution
Owned
C&I
Bollnäs, Sweden
Manufacturing
Owned
C&I
Edsbyn, Sweden
Manufacturing
Owned
C&I
Sandviken, Sweden
Distribution
Leased
C&I
* Segment abbreviations:
C&I – Commercial & Industrial Group
SOT – Snap-on Tools Group
D&I – Diagnostics & Information Group

 

[Brownsfan]

My 2 cents which mean nothing. Why bother stamping USA on tools like screwdrivers wrenches and sockets etc but not on others if they truly are still made here? The argument of a global customer base goes out the window. They are not buying screwdrivers in other countries? So the non USA stamped tools are not made here or they are and removed USA to get us used to not seeing it when they do move production elseware. I really hope I am wrong. I have stopped buying Snap On for now and have given all my biz to Cornwell. Even the offshore. Why? Becasue they dont hide it. I try to only buy the USA hardline stuff. Plus it is made 30 min south of me

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

I think SNAPON has ceased to be a honest manufacturer. I've noticed that most tools do not say USA like before. Why?
I think SNAPON is importing most of its tools from Asia. Some examples: Ratchets, most do not say USA like before. Although the website states that the country of origin is USA, why they not put COO in the tool? Legally, for a tool can take the word USA has to be made 100% in USA. Maybe they not. Another example, some screw drivers or drivers, including the classic ratcheting SSDMR4B, is now in a different material. If you have recently bought one try this: Approaching the shaft to a magnet and see if it is magnetic or nonmagnetic. Let me explain: The tip of the shaft has a magnet inside (obviously) but the whole shaft were made of 100% stainless steel (Non magnetic. Non magnetic= No rust. No rust= 100% Stainless) before. The new ones, not only makes a different noise when it turns, but the snap on logo is painted instead of marked and the shaft is not anti magnetic. I started collecting only USA marked tools. I know that some people can judge this as stupid non sense obsession, but I buy tools for collecting purposes, I have TOO MANY for every day use already and I noticed that the REAL USA TOOLS are getting more valuable for people like me. I am obsessed with GOOD TOOLS.

buy ez red then

 

[Syndicate]

My 2 cents which mean nothing. Why bother stamping USA on tools like screwdrivers wrenches and sockets etc but not on others if they truly are still made here? The argument of a global customer base goes out the window. They are not buying screwdrivers in other countries? So the non USA stamped tools are not made here or they are and removed USA to get us used to not seeing it when they do move production elseware. I really hope I am wrong. I have stopped buying Snap On for now and have given all my biz to Cornwell. Even the offshore. Why? Becasue they dont hide it. I try to only buy the USA hardline stuff. Plus it is made 30 min south of me

Good and valid points sir. And I think your .02 cents is worth just as much if not more than everyone elses! It is good that this thread has so many different opinions. It shows we are not all robots!

 

[Brownsfan]

So yeah no one has just called and asked?


Instead of this internet fight

I did call. The nice receptionest kindly typed the ratchet part # into the puter and said our website says USA. I said I know that so why is it not stamped? She said I dont know we just dont I guess. So if anyone wants to call and see if you can get past her to get an answer please do. And please dont search the tag "********" at the bottom of the page. I have a feeling NOTHING tool related will come up.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

Certainly, not too many people get the point here. Like I said before, every country has their proud of something. We all know that nobody competes with China in electronics. Maybe the Jaguars are not made in England like before,and who cares, they maybe went bankrupt, its understandable. But Snap on is making MORE MONEY than ever making tools cheaper than ever, and if the people think it doesn't matter where are the tools made, then we will have a BIG fu..kn problem later: China will own the world. This is not simple as it looks. Is not just like: " As long as they still honor the warranty, I don't care who made the tool". That is the same reason why USA has WORST ECONOMY in decades. We let the bigger investors do whatever they want. We should stop thinking in the present and think more in the future.

I've heard this **** before. Back in the 70s and 80s it was Japan who was going to take over the world. Fast forward to 2012 Japan has what 200% debt to gnp??

Back in the day we (USA) was the "china" of the world. After WW2 we were it for manufacturing because nearly every country in the developed world was a pile of rubble. Throughout history manufacturing has moved across the globe. Yea sure it would be great if everything was made here but it's just not going to happen. Whining about it isn't going to do anything.

Just in case you didn't know it we are a capitalist economy, so investors will put their money into the biggest reward. I am not a professional investor (Just a 401k and share builder accounts) I too try my best to maximize my investments. One thing is for sure you do have an American ideal for sure--find someone to blame.

 

[andywander]

As long as we're so far off topic in this thread, what really bugs me is when people write, "I could care less", but they really mean, "I couldn't care less".

That's the kind of laziness that causes jobs to move overseas......

 

[Hiball]

I definitely feel cheated after 11 pages... What a waste of bandwidth. If the tool not being stamped bothers you as a consumer, and you just can't bring yourself to believe the website or the stamping that comes on set boxes, there are plenty of tool companies that cater to your needs.

Williams
Sk
Wright
Matco (chrome handle)
Armstrong
Premium C-man

Snap on isn't forcing you to buy there products, there are other options...

 

[magova1104]

I definitely feel cheated after 11 pages... What a waste of bandwidth. If the tool not being stamped bothers you as a consumer, and you just can't bring yourself to believe the website or the stamping that comes on set boxes, there are plenty of tool companies that cater to your needs.

Williams
Sk
Wright
Matco (chrome handle)
Armstrong
Premium C-man

Snap on isn't forcing you to buy there products, there are other options...

Right. But unfortunately, Snap on was my last choice. And ALL companies you mentioned were acquired by other companies and are selling **** already.

 

[Hiball]

Right. But unfortunately, Snap on was my last choice. And ALL companies you mentioned were acquired by other companies and are selling **** already.

I know Illinois is strict on gun laws but do they require that you only buy snap on? What do you mean about ****? I'd lay a wright or Sk round head (vintage or new production) up against Snap on.

Aquired by other companies? Wright? Oh and I forgot to add Cornwell to the previous list (30 tooth)

 

[wreckercologist]

12 pages of fail.

For what it's worth, the lack of COO isn't new. I've got a WWII era Snap-on ratchet that isn't marked U.S. Coulda' maybe been made in Canada even!

 

[Brownsfan]

I think what has most upset is the fact it has been there all these years and they have picked the absolute worst time to remove it. For the longest time it was a badge of honor, one of the last truely American made products. The name has always meant quality and what else? Made in the USA. It was always there, why take it off? Why now? Why at all? Dont tell me the global market thing either. If that was the case it would be off of everything they make. Tools are really one of the last things we make here and make better than the rest of the world. While there are great Euro made tools if they were better our boxes would be full of them instead of Snap On, Cornwell etc. While I own some Knipex and some tools made in the far east the bulk 95% of my tools are Snap On or Cornwell. Search any tool company on this board and without doing it myself I would bet my house it would be Snap On. It is a beloved American brand and it would be like a stab in the back to most if they moved production off shore. So on a forum where the bulk of the topics are tool related this topic is pretty valid.

 

[Ovalinaz]

i Have see some snap on stuff Marked Spain. And I just got a New Yellow ratcheting Screwdriver under warrenty and the one i traded for it was way different. i dont really like the neew one. just is differnt than the old one. to me it operates different. the logo on the new one is painted. I dont like that. kinda like the Screwdrivers i bought from SO (the classic SDD Handles) and there semi stamped and painted.. IMO the tools Would be better stamped. i just think there trying to save money and are making the good quality stuff Cheap..

 

[lennoxlennox]

12 pages of fail.

For what it's worth, the lack of COO isn't new. I've got a WWII era Snap-on ratchet that isn't marked U.S. Coulda' maybe been made in Canada even!

 

[TwoInch]

Ok this thread is just getting way outta hand. So again ill clarify this, ALL RACHETS,SOCKETS,SCREWDRIVERS,WRENCHES, AND PLIERS ARE MADE HERE IN USA! the biggest plant is in Milwaukee WI. I see thousands of these items come in everyday and there from the same plants everytime.

my point to entering this thread was because i am very curious why they removed the USA from many of the tools.

the final ratchets and other tools may well come from a plant in Milwaukee, i dont doubt that, but that doesnt mean they are using american steel, or that parts are made in another country and shipped here. or maybe small things are made somewhere else. that is why i posted the link, to the FTC info about what it takes to claim USA product.

i also believe there MUST be a reason Snap On, the company, has not squashed the questions and myths as to why they made the change. From what i understand, they have not made a public statement on why the change was made, and important people have asked.

this is my point. nothing to do with inferior quality or what have you.

i actually am in the mind set that taiwan craftsman is a superior product to the latest offerings of USA craftsman, from what i have used personally. so thats not the point of my questions and statements. not to say i wouldnt be disappointed if Snap on was pocketing the huge saving they obviously would be making manufacturing out of the states...

 

[BHH]

It's quite simple. Remove the stamp years before you move offshore and then no one will notice when you finally move production offshore.

Like the X-Files have taught us. TRUST NO ONE!

 

[lennoxlennox]

it's a well documented fact - the only snapon items made in china are the green tools

 

[magova1104]

I think what has most upset is the fact it has been there all these years and they have picked the absolute worst time to remove it. For the longest time it was a badge of honor, one of the last truely American made products. The name has always meant quality and what else? Made in the USA. It was always there, why take it off? Why now? Why at all? Dont tell me the global market thing either. If that was the case it would be off of everything they make. Tools are really one of the last things we make here and make better than the rest of the world. While there are great Euro made tools if they were better our boxes would be full of them instead of Snap On, Cornwell etc. While I own some Knipex and some tools made in the far east the bulk 95% of my tools are Snap On or Cornwell. Search any tool company on this board and without doing it myself I would bet my house it would be Snap On. It is a beloved American brand and it would be like a stab in the back to most if they moved production off shore. So on a forum where the bulk of the topics are tool related this topic is pretty valid.[/QUOTE


This post expresses exactly what I wanted to say all these pages. I know the dealers, Snap on warehouse workers and all those who have recently purchased a lot of snap on tools without knowing this, ​​are upset about this, but the reality of all this is reflected in the excessive prices of tools that really not worth it, not just the stamp: Made in USA is what we are discussing here is the reduction of product quality. I don't like to see that Snap on die like other companies, I want them to survive, but not this way. I think they can just keep selling foreign tools but with the name Blue-Point and continue making the best tools here in USA with pride. Even if they rise the price, people will continue buying from them.

 

[TwoInch]

im also going to say that comparing a WWII era tool to what is happening today is irrelevant.

people can think its trolling, or a "fail" or "ignorance" and whatever they like. im simply speculating on an issue at hand. im not bent out of shape about it.

BUT, i think its blatant ignorance to think that Snap On just decided "ehh we dont need to stamp these USA anymore, no one cares anyway"

There must be more to the story.

 

[magova1104]

It's quite simple. Remove the stamp years before you move offshore and then no one will notice when you finally move production offshore.

Like the X-Files have taught us. TRUST NO ONE!

Exactly! Is just another business strategy. But unfortunately, not many people had noticed these changes.
I just spoke with a friend of mine who is a professional mechanic and his entire tools are snap-on, he showed me a flex 1/4 ratchet which suddenly have broken, and he was kind of astonished ​​, when I saw the ratchet, I noticed that is the new gen without the USA mark. (He told me it was to easy to break it) He never knew that the new tools from snap on do not say USA. He is very upset with snap on now.

 

[OEXL16B]

The question is: Will Snap-on start leaving the COO off other tools like wrenches and sockets?

 

[Hiball]

Magova1104, Do you really believe that there is a difference in quality between the "USA" stamped in the Dual 80's and the Non? Ive personally owned both and outside of the stamp I notice No difference, same with the pliers.

Again let's look at this from a Legal standpoint, falsifying COO to consumers is something that is taken very seriously <--- ask Stanley/Mac. Snap on claims the dual 80 ratchets are made in the USA, the set packaging claims USA, customer service Claims its USA, The Gj members who go to the annual convention and speak to employees claim there made in the USA. I don't like the missing stamp personally, but instead of trying to be the copy/paste/keyboard masher I chose with my pocketbook. In reality... Sales on ratchets are prob near a all time high and it's a great design.

 

[TwoInch]

hiball, do you think maybe something is changing in the recent possibly? or that there might be a change coming soon?

i do not think they would label packaging USA, if the product was not genuine. but the change has some sort of depth behind it, other than "eh, just because" would you not agree?

 

[oldtools]

The question is: Will Snap-on start leaving the COO off other tools like wrenches and sockets?

They are not on ratcheting wrench, allen wrench, screwdriver.

 

[Hiball]

hiball, do you think maybe something is changing in the recent possibly? or that there might be a change coming soon?

i do not think they would label packaging USA, if the product was not genuine. but the change has some sort of depth behind it, other than "eh, just because" would you not agree?

I hate to even speculate what the future will bring for any manufacturer, obviously in today's economy it important to balance Quality and production costs. Secondly... Everyone is entitled to there own opinion, I only challenge the claims of lesser quality etc.. Based off a stamp when comparing identical products.

 

[TwoInch]

i agree, and in no way would throw out quality claims of the sort.

i personally believe that, if something like that is happening, or will be in the near future, that it would be a bad decision on Snap Ons part. it may have been beneficial to some of the other lower end companies(?), but i believe with a company at the top of its game, included in the BEST IN THE WORLD class of tools, they would be much better off raising prices to where they need to be to keep the company legacy alive. i can not believe that their profit margins are so narrow as is, that moving out of the states and losing the USA Made part of their appeal, would be wise. not with this company in particular, among so many competitors that have lost their edge.

does anyone still consider Mac as the cream of the crop? Matco, yeh right. are they good? yes. but they dont got what snap on has.

 

[richfinn]

As long as we're so far off topic in this thread, what really bugs me is when people write, "I could care less", but they really mean, "I couldn't care less".

That's the kind of laziness that causes jobs to move overseas......

Its an "Americanisation", if you write it correctly "they wont know what the f*ck youre banging on about" (Modern English)

 

[4x4gearhead]

In reality... Sales on ratchets are prob near a all time high and it's a great design.

I am also happy with my dual 80's I only have a few as I was just done buying my 36 tooth ratchets when they came out. I do wish I had gotten them after they switched the direction in which the screws go into the face plate of the ratchet. My only gripe is I have to tighten mine up every so often, even with loctite.

EDIT: I am also done speculating on this subject, frankly this bores me as much as all of the "OMG CMAN STUFF IS CHINESE NOW!" threads.

 

[billymade]

If you having problems with the first generation dual 80s in the 1/2" drive size; call snap-on, they should swap yours out to the latest revision (I think the 1/2" is the only one they revised so far). This is a known issue and they is why they revised the design; they should handle the situation for you!

 

[d.stole]

I really don't see why they can't stamp USA on the newer ratchets. Some people here speculate that it's because they are trying to gear towards international sales, but I think that's just made up BS.

I really want to know the truth behind why they do not stamp USA on their tools when it's made in the USA.

Hahhaaaa, man, so true! That sounds like one big BS. Image Hazet, or similar company removing "germany" stamp from tools, because they are affraid that someone won't buy them in USA.