Snap On is cheating us?

[MaltBeer]

Do the Flank Drive Plus wrenches still have USA markings on them?

 

[franzdom]

Yes, FDP do but not the FDP ratchet wrenches.

 

[RedFordTruck]

Looks like american workers to me...

 

[magova1104]

Looks like american workers to me...

No. They are Canadian workers. Nobody mentioned the toolboxes here, just the hand tools.

 

[magova1104]

Hahhaaaa, man, so true! That sounds like one big BS. Image Hazet, or similar company removing "germany" stamp from tools, because they are affraid that someone won't buy them in USA.

Actually, they did. Some of the new generation of Hazet,WIHA,stahlwille, and the italian brand BETA and some BAHCO (snap on) are using ratchet heads made in Taiwan in handles marked as Germany, note that they are not saying "Made in Germany".
Even if a product says USA or Germany, doesn't mean that is the COO, it's just where the company is located. Everybody knows that VW is "German Technology", but, they are (Beetle, GOLF and Jetta)actualy made in Puebla,Mexico.

 

[jeep450]

Looks like american workers to me...

They make some in Canada.

 

[richfinn]

Actually, they did. Some of the new generation of Hazet,WIHA,stahlwille, and the italian brand BETA and some BAHCO (snap on) are using ratchet heads made in Taiwan in handles marked as Germany, note that they are not saying "Made in Germany".
Even if a product says USA or Germany, doesn't mean that is the COO, it's just where the company is located. Everybody knows that VW is "German Technology", but, they are (Beetle, GOLF and Jetta)actualy made in Puebla,Mexico.

I dont think your getting it, VW and Snap On are global companies who can set up a factory anywhere in the world and produce the same quality product.

If the factory in Japan was destroyed in a Tsunami (would the Japanese want "made in USA" VWs)

Or the facility in the USA was destroyed by a Hurricane (Would Americans want "made in Japan" Snap On?)

The company would still be able to produce goods and sell them worldwide without changing a thing or having to worry about COO.

If McDonalds can do it anyone can

 

[magova1104]

I dont think your getting it, VW and Snap On are global companies who can set up a factory anywhere in the world and produce the same quality product.

If the factory in Japan was destroyed in a Tsunami (would the Japanese want "made in USA" VWs)

Or the facility in the USA was destroyed by a Hurricane (Would Americans want "made in Japan" Snap On?)

The company would still be able to produce goods and sell them worldwide without changing a thing or having to worry about COO.

If McDonalds can do it anyone can

You win.

 

[Syndicate]

Here the vid shows when they used to put USA on the heads of ratchets

 

[richfinn]

You win.

I know

 

[magova1104]

I know

Hahaha! Salud!

 

[magova1104]

Here the vid shows when they used to put USA on the heads of ratchets

I saw that video before, they also have the pliers and screwdrivers, I love that show. I started to cooling down of all about this. I don't want to upset or make feel bad anyone, if I did, I apologize.

I love snap on ratchets! I love snap on tools. That video just remind me that I have to swap the soft handle for a hard one.

 

[Syndicate]

It is all good. Like I said before, there is plenty of info on the web about this very threads title, and there are many making decisions about it. Everyone is entitled to think how they think, and say what they say. Free country last I checked. Also do not let what anyone says, including me, influence what kind of day you are going to have. Just not worth it to get worked up over a tool debate. Life is way too short as it is man. I for one like the fact that many are not afraid to stand firm in their beliefs.

Who knows what will happen about all this. Maybe they come out and mention it is all USA or all China. Fact is, I think that their guarantee will always be #1 as it has been since the company was founded. And many will buy the tools no matter what or where they are made, because of the name, and they like the flavor of the Kool Aid

I only hope that no matter where made, they at least keep the USA plants alive, so USA has the jobs. To me that is most important!

 

[magova1104]

It is all good. Like I said before, there is plenty of info on the web about this very threads title, and there are many making decisions about it. Everyone is entitled to think how they think, and say what they say. Free country last I checked. Also do not let what anyone says, including me, influence what kind of day you are going to have. Just not worth it to get worked up over a tool debate. Life is way too short as it is man. I for one like the fact that many are not afraid to stand firm in their beliefs.

Who knows what will happen about all this. Maybe they come out and mention it is all USA or all China. Fact is, I think that their guarantee will always be #1 as it has been since the company was founded. And many will buy the tools no matter what or where they are made, because of the name, and they like the flavor of the Kool Aid

I only hope that no matter where made, they at least keep the USA plants alive, so USA has the jobs. To me that is most important!

Thanks for your words. That's it. It's all about it. I don't remember which drug I used before, but I'm cool now. I am totally satisfied with my snap on tools, I have a lot, but I will keep checking their new stuff, cause I can't stop buying tools. Cheers from Berwyn, Illinois.

 

[richfinn]

Thanks for your words. That's it. It's all about it. I don't remember which drug I used before, but I'm cool now. I am totally satisfied with my snap on tools, I have a lot, but I will keep checking their new stuff, cause I can't stop buying tools. Cheers from Berwyn, Illinois.

I hope you dont feel cheated anymore, you,ve got some good tools in that box

 

[TwoInch]

Actually, they did. Some of the new generation of Hazet,WIHA,stahlwille, and the italian brand BETA and some BAHCO (snap on) are using ratchet heads made in Taiwan in handles marked as Germany, note that they are not saying "Made in Germany".
Even if a product says USA or Germany, doesn't mean that is the COO, it's just where the company is located. Everybody knows that VW is "German Technology", but, they are (Beetle, GOLF and Jetta)actualy made in Puebla,Mexico.

company location has nothing to do with how products are labeled.

other countries may have other laws on COO claims, but USA has their own, and are strict. you can not label a product USA here unless it is "all or virtually all" made in the USA. the virtually all is defined in the link at the bottom of this post.

something does not have to be stamped "made in USA". the "USA" stamp is exactly the same, by law. its called "implied COO" which covers anything that would likely cause a customer to "believe" something is made in the USA.

from the FTC - "A Made in USA claim can be express or implied.

Examples of express claims: Made in USA. "Our products are American-made." "USA."

In identifying implied claims, the Commission focuses on the overall impression of the advertising, label, or promotional material. Depending on the context, U.S. symbols or geographic references (for example, U.S. flags, outlines of U.S. maps, or references to U.S. locations of headquarters or factories) may convey a claim of U.S. origin either by themselves, or in conjunction with other phrases or images.

Example: A company promotes its product in an ad that features a manager describing the "true American quality" of the work produced at the company’s American factory. Although there is no express representation that the company’s product is made in the U.S., the overall — or net — impression the ad is likely to convey to consumers is that the product is of U.S. origin."

if a product is sold in the USA, it must follow strict criteria on COO labeling, no matter the COO. as for your automobile examples, they must follow their own set of rules and laws regarding COO, and country of assembly, the two are different, and must be labeled differently.

product with foreign COOs are required to disclose the COO on the PRODUCT and PACKAGING. which is why there are usually COO markings on plastic molded items, and stamps on products. the FTC can issue exemptions, and allow companies to not disclose COO on certain products. craftsman is a good example, the new taiwan and china products only have COO on the packaging, not the tools themselves. customs and FTC are pretty strict with consumers knowing what they are buying.

the link again http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard

 

[Monte]

note that they are not saying "Made in Germany".

 

[lennoxlennox]

so "made in germany" means.... um... not too much really

more like deception in advertising.... people have been swallowing their BS for years

and what's funny is all the hand wringing over the much much stricter requirements in the US

and if and that's a big IF, Germany requires 45% ... oh well ... THEY ARE PROTESTING THIS IS TOO STRINGENT.... FFS

CURRENTLY IT CAN BE 90% MADE SOMEWHERE ELSE AND STILL BE CALLED MADE IN GERMANY

what a crock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.thelocal.de/money/20120116-40137.html


10% MADE IN GERMANY REQUIREMENTS CERTAINLY JUSTIFIES THE PRICE FOR GERMAN TOOLS - THANK GOD I'M NOT GOING TO BUY SNAPON NOW AND TRUST THE MADE IN GERMANY LABEL

this is really an incredibly funny revelation for those who promote the made in germany fantasy



<--- Made in Germany!?

 

[lennoxlennox]

I'm not sure which is funnier.... the "made in germany" requirements article

or the article that has a link in that article regarding the law suit against bmw

http://www.thelocal.de/national/20120502-42285.html

 

[Monte]

<--- Made in Germany!?

Don´t be upset

I'm not sure which is funnier.... the "made in germany" requirements article

or the article that has a link in that article regarding the law suit against bmw

http://www.thelocal.de/national/20120502-42285.html

erection without ****** and even for free ! sounds good

 

[Maexle]

so "made in germany" means.... um... not too much really

more like deception in advertising.... people have been swallowing their BS for years

and what's funny is all the hand wringing over the much much stricter requirements in the US

and if and that's a big IF, Germany requires 45% ... oh well ... THEY ARE PROTESTING THIS IS TOO STRINGENT.... FFS

CURRENTLY IT CAN BE 90% MADE SOMEWHERE ELSE AND STILL BE CALLED MADE IN GERMANY

what a crock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.thelocal.de/money/20120116-40137.html


10% MADE IN GERMANY REQUIREMENTS CERTAINLY JUSTIFIES THE PRICE FOR GERMAN TOOLS - THANK GOD I'M NOT GOING TO BUY SNAPON NOW AND TRUST THE MADE IN GERMANY LABEL

this is really an incredibly funny revelation for those who promote the made in germany fantasy



<--- Made in Germany!?

i agree up to a certain level with you, 90% is BS, but, i sill prefer the "made in germany" logo on my stuff over the "made in china" logo. And if you dig deeper, the article you've posted the link to, doesn't explain the details about design, quality control, choice of suppliers....etc...

 

[Monte]

a 10% made in germany product is still better than a 100% made in china product

 

[lennoxlennox]

Don´t be upset

I'm not upset... I find it hysterical given this and other threads.

i agree up to a certain level with you, 90% is BS, but, i sill prefer the "made in germany" logo on my stuff over the "made in china" logo. And if you dig deeper, the article you've posted the link to, doesn't explain the details about design, quality control, choice of suppliers....etc...

You are right 90% is BS.

What is telling is that the manufacturing industry there are lobbying hard to not have to meet 45%. Think about that.

And until Germany even approaches something remotely close to the standards we have in the US, it doesn't really matter what other articles state about design, quality control, choice of suppliers etc., because without standards, this is just as meaningless as the "made in germany" stamp - it's nothing but marketing banter.

Until the manufacturers stand up and say, put me under the microscope (instead of fighting it)...they are just talking out thier ***.


Worse, is that the US is further penalizing it's manufacturers and giving unfair competitive advantage to other countries, like Germany.

How so?

By having much more tougher and meaningful standards here, gives the consumer a sense of what "Made in the USA" means.

By not requiring those same standards on imported products like "made in germany", consumers mistakenly believe the german products must meet those same stringent requirements to be labelled "made in germany"

when in fact it nowhere remotely close. the consumer pays a premium for something that is a myth... it may say made in germany but given the lack of any real standards, it might as well say "made in china"

 

[lennoxlennox]

erection without ****** and even for free ! sounds good

lol... BMW could come up with a whole new advertising campaign


sort of gives a whole new slant to "the ultimate driving machine"

 

[magova1104]

I don't think all the Hazet tools are Made in Germany. I admire the German quality, all my wife's tools are made in Germany (DOVO)my father knife is a BOKER, I have some Hazet,Elora and some economy tools from Wiha, even my car wheels (BORBET) are Made in Germany. I personally went to a VW plant in Mexico and I saw that they employ a lot of German engineers there.
But I've seen some tools that they don't have the Germany word specially ratchets, unless they are fakes?

BTW: That is a SWEEEEEEET ratchet! I love it.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

Picked up a snappy 3 piece universal set today. It's still packaged in the heat shrink wrapping. USA stamped on them

They look very beefy!!!

 

[jensputzier]

I don't think all the Hazet tools are Made in Germany.

BTW: That is a SWEEEEEEET ratchet! I love it.

That is true, not all Hazet tools are made in Germany. But Hazet does not pretend otherwise and does not mark products "Made in Germany" that aren't. If you have a specific question regarding a certain Hazet item before you order from me, I can give you an exact answer whether it is "Made in Germany" or not.

Hazet makes the key tools themselves and others are sourced from manufacturers that have key competences in that area.

There are few items that I would not consider being on par with the "Made by Hazet" items here in Remscheid but I test most of the items I sell in one of my companies or in car repair shops and I do not sell what I wouldn't use myself.

 

[shamrock12]

Perhaps if all of us flood the Snap-On customer service with emails (use their online form) about their decision of removing USA stampings, maybe they will take notice ... maybe not. Tell them to pass that along to their marketing department. I already did my part.

 

[jensputzier]

I'm not upset... I find it hysterical given this and other threads.



You are right 90% is BS.

What is telling is that the manufacturing industry there are lobbying hard to not have to meet 45%. Think about that.

And until Germany even approaches something remotely close to the standards we have in the US, it doesn't really matter what other articles state about design, quality control, choice of suppliers etc., because without standards, this is just as meaningless as the "made in germany" stamp - it's nothing but marketing banter.

Until the manufacturers stand up and say, put me under the microscope (instead of fighting it)...they are just talking out thier ***.


Worse, is that the US is further penalizing it's manufacturers and giving unfair competitive advantage to other countries, like Germany.

How so?

By having much more tougher and meaningful standards here, gives the consumer a sense of what "Made in the USA" means.

By not requiring those same standards on imported products like "made in germany", consumers mistakenly believe the german products must meet those same stringent requirements to be labelled "made in germany"

when in fact it nowhere remotely close. the consumer pays a premium for something that is a myth... it may say made in germany but given the lack of any real standards, it might as well say "made in china"

Just remembering who invented the "Made in Germany" designation and why this was done, the USA might even start to copy that. But beware what happend last time

In earnest: If there is such a quality label it should be honored for the consumer not to be mislead. Good tools can come from any country.

 

[magova1104]

That is true, not all Hazet tools are made in Germany. But Hazet does not pretend otherwise and does not mark products "Made in Germany" that aren't. If you have a specific question regarding a certain Hazet item before you order from me, I can give you an exact answer whether it is "Made in Germany" or not.

Hazet makes the key tools themselves and others are sourced from manufacturers that have key competences in that area.

There are few items that I would not consider being on par with the "Made by Hazet" items here in Remscheid but I test most of the items I sell in one of my companies or in car repair shops and I do not sell what I wouldn't use myself.

Thanks! I love German tools.

 

[magova1104]

Just remembering who invented the "Made in Germany" designation and why this was done, the USA might even start to copy that. But beware what happend last time

In earnest: If there is such a quality label it should be honored for the consumer not to be mislead. Good tools can come from any country.

In the world there are so many people that uses the word Germany as a profit key. One example here:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manicure-Kit-Set-Nail-Clipper-Germany-Nail-Care-GREAT-CHRISTMAST-GIFT-/360437877935?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item53ebc58caf#ht_1637wt_1304

This seller in Canada is selling a lot of Chinese manicure sets with the world "Germany" in the listing,not in the product. I know that because I purchased one and I returned it wright away. He is using the word Germany because everybody knows and look for the German quality tools.
I did report it to ebay, but eBay doesn't care, as long as he is making money for them.

 

[Maexle]

I am working for an american company here in Indiana, 2/3 of the guys on the floor are from latin-america (mainly mexico one guy from honduras, one from el salvador...etc..) i and the other technical engineer are germans, our sales stuff is international (british, mexican, spanish, italian, french, german, american, every single one in charge for his own global territory).

We use mainly imported raw materials because of the price / quality and exotic materials not available here in the US (reinforced plastic and special blends).

What i want to say is: about 75% of our staff is foreign and we mainly use foreign materials and still have "made in USA" written on our products. How should we label our products, " Made in USA by an international group of people " ...or: " Designed by Germans, made by Mexicans, sold by a Brit, made out of german material with italian tools and paid taxes in the USA " ?? Yeaaah right...

 

[lennoxlennox]

Thanks! I love German tools.

So just trying to figure this out

It appears that the favorite sport of some GJ members is to kick the snot out of Snapon for not having a stamp on their tools that says made in USA but their website states it

But any tool maker that has "made in germany" gets a complete hall pass even though the requirement for that honor is a paltry 10%???

How exactly does that work???

 

[HandyManny]

I think SNAPON has ceased to be a honest manufacturer. I've noticed that most tools do not say USA like before. Why?
I think SNAPON is importing most of its tools from Asia. Some examples: Ratchets, most do not say USA like before. Although the website states that the country of origin is USA, why they not put COO in the tool? Legally, for a tool can take the word USA has to be made 100% in USA. Maybe they not. Another example, some screw drivers or drivers, including the classic ratcheting SSDMR4B, is now in a different material. If you have recently bought one try this: Approaching the shaft to a magnet and see if it is magnetic or nonmagnetic. Let me explain: The tip of the shaft has a magnet inside (obviously) but the whole shaft were made of 100% stainless steel (Non magnetic. Non magnetic= No rust. No rust= 100% Stainless) before. The new ones, not only makes a different noise when it turns, but the snap on logo is painted instead of marked and the shaft is not anti magnetic. I started collecting only USA marked tools. I know that some people can judge this as stupid non sense obsession, but I buy tools for collecting purposes, I have TOO MANY for every day use already and I noticed that the REAL USA TOOLS are getting more valuable for people like me. I am obsessed with GOOD TOOLS.

Define what you mean by 100% made in USA??? By definition I doubt most of those old (no longer in business) USA tool makers met that criteria for 100% made in USA. In fact this idea of made in USA with global components is nothing new at all, it's been a standard practice at one time or another in US production going back to before we became a country. What I mean is that many raw materials nessesary to make certain things are not always native to the USA and have to be imported. There was a long time there in the 1970's and early 1980's when steel mills were closing left and right and we were importing steel or the ore (and other raw materials) nessesary to make steel. Don't look to the good old days and think that everything of quality was all 100% USA made. True that we made more finished products here in the past than we do now, but made with global components was more common in those days than many people today may realise. Do you really think all of our nations ports have always existed stricktly for export?

By the way....what good are good tools if they never get used and only collected. To me high quality should go into tools that are actually being used and I can't think of many tools that were made and meant to be collector pieces. Tools are intended to be used as tools. But I agree with wanting quality tools.

 

[magova1104]

So just trying to figure this out

It appears that the favorite sport of some GJ members is to kick the snot out of Snapon for not having a stamp on their tools that says made in USA but their website states it

But any tool maker that has "made in germany" gets a complete hall pass even though the requirement for that honor is a paltry 10%???

How exactly does that work???

This is how it works: When you have all of your life using and liking tools, you start knowing more about GOOD TOOLS.
I have tools from all around the World: USA, Japan, Germany, England,Italy, France, etc. and I started noticing that most manufacturers are selling imported tools maybe since 10 years now.
I like Snap on, Hazet, Elora,USAG, Facom and some others.
This thread is about the possible infringement that some companies may doing by selling tools marked with the COO while they are being imported from overseas.
I understand all about materials used in each tool. And I know that a lot of stuff is "Made in USA" when is not. I don't care about bread or candies, I care about tools.

 

[lennoxlennox]

This thread is about the possible infringement that some companies may doing by selling tools marked with the COO while they are being imported from overseas.

so what you are saying is just speculation... conjecture... "maybe"??? what might be happening in the US???? (which of course would be illegal for them to do - what you are accusing/speculating on)

while it's a known fact with "made in germany" products that this is acceptable, and this is ok?


ok...thanks for explaining it to me

 

[magova1104]

Define what you mean by 100% made in USA??? By definition I doubt most of those old (no longer in business) USA tool makers met that criteria for 100% made in USA. In fact this idea of made in USA with global components is nothing new at all, it's been a standard practice at one time or another in US production going back to before we became a country. What I mean is that many raw materials nessesary to make certain things are not always native to the USA and have to be imported. There was a long time there in the 1970's and early 1980's when steel mills were closing left and right and we were importing steel or the ore (and other raw materials) nessesary to make steel. Don't look to the good old days and think that everything of quality was all 100% USA made. True that we made more finished products here in the past than we do now, but made with global components was more common in those days than many people today may realise. Do you really think all of our nations ports have always existed stricktly for export?

By the way....what good are good tools if they never get used and only collected. To me high quality should go into tools that are actually being used and I can't think of many tools that were made and meant to be collector pieces. Tools are intended to be used as tools. But I agree with wanting quality tools.

I think everyone does with their money what they want. Some people make the tools, others use them and some others also collect them. In order to collect tools, you first need to have them used.

 

[BHH]

So who's going to lawyer up and get the class action lawsuit going?!

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

Define what you mean by 100% made in USA??? By definition I doubt most of those old (no longer in business) USA tool makers met that criteria for 100% made in USA. In fact this idea of made in USA with global components is nothing new at all, it's been a standard practice at one time or another in US production going back to before we became a country. What I mean is that many raw materials nessesary to make certain things are not always native to the USA and have to be imported. There was a long time there in the 1970's and early 1980's when steel mills were closing left and right and we were importing steel or the ore (and other raw materials) nessesary to make steel. Don't look to the good old days and think that everything of quality was all 100% USA made. True that we made more finished products here in the past than we do now, but made with global components was more common in those days than many people today may realise. Do you really think all of our nations ports have always existed stricktly for export?

By the way....what good are good tools if they never get used and only collected. To me high quality should go into tools that are actually being used and I can't think of many tools that were made and meant to be collector pieces. Tools are intended to be used as tools. But I agree with wanting quality tools.

Using raw imported ore is a lot different than using finished imported parts, though. Ore is ore - the difference happens when it's refined, and what the requirements for the finished material at the refinery are like. It's not crazy to think that finished material standards in China are probably lower than they are in the US.

I do agree with tool collecting...I've got a couple Bonney ratchets probably three times older than I am, and they get used, not polished. My collecting hobby is strictly limited to books (and I read all of those, too).

 

[Monte]

How exactly does that work???

That´s the secret of our sucess