Snap On is cheating us?

[magova1104]

so what you are saying is just speculation... conjecture... "maybe"??? what might be happening in the US???? (which of course would be illegal for them to do - what you are accusing/speculating on)

while it's a known fact with "made in germany" products that this is acceptable, and this is ok?


ok...thanks for explaining it to me

Mhhh. Actually, this is just a forum, not a courthouse, and I guess you are a dealer, not a lawyer.
If I had that much of frustration, I may be hiring a lawyer and doing something serious about it. This is just a place to talk about tools, not about laws.
Even if Snap on is doing that, this is a free country, and I can say whatever I want!
I don't understand why so many people are crying about this!
Like I use to say when I was a kid: The one who is angry, loses.

 

[magova1104]

That´s the secret of our sucess

 

[lennoxlennox]

That´s the secret of our sucess

you see... we in the US really aren't as smart as we like to think we are

instead of beating ourselves up about this issue, we need to learn from the Germans!!!

 

[HandyManny]

I've heard this **** before. Back in the 70s and 80s it was Japan who was going to take over the world. Fast forward to 2012 Japan has what 200% debt to gnp??

Back in the day we (USA) was the "china" of the world. After WW2 we were it for manufacturing because nearly every country in the developed world was a pile of rubble. Throughout history manufacturing has moved across the globe. Yea sure it would be great if everything was made here but it's just not going to happen. Whining about it isn't going to do anything.

Just in case you didn't know it we are a capitalist economy, so investors will put their money into the biggest reward. I am not a professional investor (Just a 401k and share builder accounts) I too try my best to maximize my investments. One thing is for sure you do have an American ideal for sure--find someone to blame.

You mostly got it right. Although I don't fully agree that prior to WWII we were the "China" of the world. We may not have become the most powerful industrialized nation on Earth until after WWII, but before that we were far from being the "China" of the world. This county's domestically produced products from the pre-WWII days were pretty phenominal and American workers were highly skilled, but better yet, American skilled workers actually gave a damn back in those days, they took pride in what they did and worked hard. You can still see it in things from old firearms, to old automobiles, to precision instruments, to old timepeices, to older tools. Many USA made products were highly sought after by people around the world. There was a common sentiment among most Americans from that time that was one of anything worth doing is worth doing right. I think we as Americans today have gotten too lazy, too spoiled by employers, and have too much a sence of entitlement. Hell, we are passing laws these days that prevent kids from working on farms and ranches. Few people today care about learning a skill or a trade. They don't even teach shop classes in highschools anymore. Nope we've become way too good for all that stuff. Heck we even have guys here who would rather collect tools tha actually get their hands and tools dirty by actually using them. We have become too big for our own britches and that has partly lead to the outsourcing.

 

[Syndicate]

So who's going to lawyer up and get the class action lawsuit going?!

This just in, GJ straw pole results show that BHH has been elected to start what many are calling the " Craziest damn lawsuit ever filed", in public forums and in the First Superior Court of Internet Fluzies.

In other news at this hour................

 

[lennoxlennox]

Mhhh. Actually, this is just a forum, not a courthouse, and I guess you are a dealer, not a lawyer.
If I had that much of frustration, I may be hiring a lawyer and doing something serious about it. This is just a place to talk about tools, not about laws.
Even if Snap on is doing that, this is a free country, and I can say whatever I want!
I don't understand why so many people are crying about this!
Like I use to say when I was a kid: The one who is angry, loses.

I think you have my post confused with someone elses

I didn't talk about courthouses or lawyers???


and as for the frustration... this thread is the one littered with your posts about the issue - professional troller?

 

[BHH]

This just in, GJ straw pole results show that BHH has been elected to start what many are calling the " Craziest damn lawsuit ever filed", in public forums and in the First Superior Court of Internet Fluzies.

In other news at this hour................

 

[magova1104]

Using raw imported ore is a lot different than using finished imported parts, though. Ore is ore - the difference happens when it's refined, and what the requirements for the finished material at the refinery are like. It's not crazy to think that finished material standards in China are probably lower than they are in the US.

I do agree with tool collecting...I've got a couple Bonney ratchets probably three times older than I am, and they get used, not polished. My collecting hobby is strictly limited to books (and I read all of those, too).

Agree. But HF tools buyers don't even think or know about collecting tools.
I like BONNEY tools also.

 

[magova1104]

This just in, GJ straw pole results show that BHH has been elected to start what many are calling the " Craziest damn lawsuit ever filed", in public forums and in the First Superior Court of Internet Fluzies.

In other news at this hour................

Hahahahahaha!

 

[HandyManny]

Using raw imported ore is a lot different than using finished imported parts, though. Ore is ore - the difference happens when it's refined, and what the requirements for the finished material at the refinery are like. It's not crazy to think that finished material standards in China are probably lower than they are in the US.

I do agree with tool collecting...I've got a couple Bonney ratchets probably three times older than I am, and they get used, not polished. My collecting hobby is strictly limited to books (and I read all of those, too).

What do the Chinese use to build their industry? I mean they are an industrial and manufacturing country. They've built their empire, do you think they use inferior steel and tools to do such? China like most countries is plenty capable of producing high quality tools and other good stuff. We only know of a lot of junk from there because for too many years our own corporations go with the cheapest makers to make stuff we buy here. I wish we could produce the stuff here that we once did, but I also don't agree that Made in USA is always an indication of high quality. Hell, just look at what came from Detroit since the 1970's until recently. I'd say that stuff was mostly junk if you ask me. I worked on a lot of it from time to time.

 

[magova1104]

What do the Chinese use to build their industry? I mean they are an industrial and manufacturing country. They've built their empire, do you think they use inferior steel and tools to do such? China like most countries is plenty capable of producing high quality tools and other good stuff. We only know of a lot of junk from there because for too many years our own corporations go with the cheapest makers to make stuff we buy here. I wish we could produce the stuff here that we once did, but I also don't agree that Made in USA is always an indication of high quality. Hell, just look at what came from Detroit since the 1970's until recently. I'd say that stuff was mostly junk if you ask me. I worked on a lot of it from time to time.

I'm out of this thread!

 

[HandyManny]

I think everyone does with their money what they want. Some people make the tools, others use them and some others also collect them. In order to collect tools, you first need to have them used.

My point is that tools are made to be used. Doesn't matter who the user is or was. I'm not aware of any being made with high quality that are intended to be stricktly collector peices. And I'm not saying here what people should or shouldn't do with their money.

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

What do the Chinese use to build their industry? I mean they are an industrial and manufacturing country. They've built their empire, do you think they use inferior steel and tools to do such? China like most countries is plenty capable of producing high quality tools and other good stuff. We only know of a lot of junk from there because for too many years our own corporations go with the cheapest makers to make stuff we buy here. I wish we could produce the stuff here that we once did, but I also don't agree that Made in USA is always an indication of high quality. Hell, just look at what came from Detroit since the 1970's until recently. I'd say that stuff was mostly junk if you ask me. I worked on a lot of it from time to time.

The thing with China is, they are capable of producing high-quality goods if they have to. I've got a few headphone amplifiers and digital-to-audio converters made by very small Chinese companies that are extremely high-quality, and the dedication of their workers to producing innovative designs with high quality is as good as any group of Americans. The thing is, a lot of time with the Chinese, especially in large-scale manufacturing, they use the lowest quality possible to get something done. They can make great wrenches, sure - but unless they absolutely have to, they're going to make them as cheaply as possible because the country is still stuck in a "conscript army" mindset - mass production trumps quality. It's a lot like Russia - they can make some really good stuff (Mosin rifles are a great example of super-simple design and insane reliability and the craftsmanship of a lot of things prior to the Russian Revolution of 1917), but for the most part everything is produced as cheaply as possible in huge quantities. Russia and modern China both built their empires on the sweat and blood of serfs, rather than any dedication to quality or innovation in their industries.

I'm not on the "Made in the USA" is always great bandwagon - there's plenty of US-made stuff that's absolute junk - but when it comes to tools, I think US-made normally denotes a higher level of quality in design, in finish, in tolerances, and in innovation, than a tool made in China or India. Electronics are one major area that other countries, Japan in particular, runs circles around US-made products.

 

[Brownsfan]

I asked my Snap On guy's boss today why the USA is missing on some tools. He was some sort of a regional manager or something. He said the question was rasied by hom and some of his piers at a national meeting a while back and they were told that they are being sold globally and it did not make financial sense to have it in there. Then some questioned it more and were promptly told to shut up thats not the purpose of the meeting. So we arenot the only ones upset about this. The truck guys regional guys are upset and left in the dark about it. It seems the only ones that know the truth are the higher ups.

 

[magova1104]

I think that everyone believes what he wants. For me the only reason that Snap on stop marking his tools with USA is not something you have to discuss in a forum or less believe in the response of a single vendor, is simply as they can't do it, period.
Not the first time a manufacturer leaves his honesty for purely financial purposes.
Snap on has over 20 years selling tools globally, maybe more, why they decide now to take the word USA? It makes no sense.
If you ask a ***** if she's clean, she will tell you it is.

 

[nomad69]

LATE BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!
In addition to their new global sourcing, SO will soon officially announe their intent to emulate Sears Holdings Inc. All inclusive tool return/exchange policy. "Were doing this as. A result of repeated complaints regarding our existing policy and frankly, with the cost savings we can now afford to."
Sears has yet to respond. Stay tuned.

 

[Creditor]

I'm out of this thread!

Liar.

If you ask a ***** if she's clean, she will tell you it is.

If you ask a troll if they are a troll and they will deny it.

 

[magova1104]

Liar.



If you ask a troll if they are a troll and they will deny it.

I have to recognize it: I am a troll. Thanks follower!

 

[Roots]

The thing with China is, they are capable of producing high-quality goods if they have to. I've got a few headphone amplifiers and digital-to-audio converters made by very small Chinese companies that are extremely high-quality, and the dedication of their workers to producing innovative designs with high quality is as good as any group of Americans. The thing is, a lot of time with the Chinese, especially in large-scale manufacturing, they use the lowest quality possible to get something done. They can make great wrenches, sure - but unless they absolutely have to, they're going to make them as cheaply as possible because the country is still stuck in a "conscript army" mindset - mass production trumps quality.

That's just the nature of contract manufacturing. Especially when one gives a spec with large parameters and tolerances to a contract manufacturer and states that price is the major issue to focus on. There's simply no point in having quality, when your name isn't on the product and the company who does have their name on the product - won't pay for additional quality.

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

That's just the nature of contract manufacturing. Especially when one gives a spec with large parameters and tolerances to a contract manufacturer and states that price is the major issue to focus on. There's simply no point in having quality, when your name isn't on the product and the company who does have their name on the product - won't pay for additional quality.

Yep, I've been there during R&D at my last job. Manufacturer was in India rather than China, but it was decided that tolerances could be rather loose (hey, it's plastic, what do tolerances matter, right?) and the major factor was price per unit. We got a pallet of prototypes from the manufacturer and fully half of the parts were broken, and most of the others had excessive flashing that would need to be trimmed before installation. The US-made prototypes we got cost about three times that of the India parts, but not a single one was broken and there was minimal flashing on only a small percentage of the parts.

Indian manufacturer won the contract, even though the cost of non-broken parts was essentially twice that of what was originally decided on, because one in two broke in transit. Corporate finance will never make any sense to me.

 

[HandyManny]

The thing with China is, they are capable of producing high-quality goods if they have to. I've got a few headphone amplifiers and digital-to-audio converters made by very small Chinese companies that are extremely high-quality, and the dedication of their workers to producing innovative designs with high quality is as good as any group of Americans. The thing is, a lot of time with the Chinese, especially in large-scale manufacturing, they use the lowest quality possible to get something done. They can make great wrenches, sure - but unless they absolutely have to, they're going to make them as cheaply as possible because the country is still stuck in a "conscript army" mindset - mass production trumps quality. It's a lot like Russia - they can make some really good stuff (Mosin rifles are a great example of super-simple design and insane reliability and the craftsmanship of a lot of things prior to the Russian Revolution of 1917), but for the most part everything is produced as cheaply as possible in huge quantities. Russia and modern China both built their empires on the sweat and blood of serfs, rather than any dedication to quality or innovation in their industries.

I'm not on the "Made in the USA" is always great bandwagon - there's plenty of US-made stuff that's absolute junk - but when it comes to tools, I think US-made normally denotes a higher level of quality in design, in finish, in tolerances, and in innovation, than a tool made in China or India. Electronics are one major area that other countries, Japan in particular, runs circles around US-made products.

Exactly!! Funny thing is, what you describe about China is exactly what USA mass production has been like here in the USA all along. Not everything even from back in the day was high quality stuff. I should know as I came of age during what people call the Golden Age of America when we were at our industrial and economic pinnacle in the late '40s and 1950's.

As far as USA made tools goes I'm not sure I agree fully with what you describe. Just look at much of the stuff that Danaher has producced here lately for some brand names. Some of it is not as good as what economy tools used to be like in this country from other companies.

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

Exactly!! Funny thing is, what you describe about China is exactly what USA mass production has been like here in the USA all along. Not everything even from back in the day was high quality stuff. I should know as I came of age during what people call the Golden Age of America when we were at our industrial and economic pinnacle in the late '40s and 1950's.

As far as USA made tools goes I'm not sure I agree fully with what you describe. Just look at much of the stuff that Danaher has producced here lately for some brand names. Some of it is not as good as what economy tools used to be like in this country from other companies.

Yeah, I should have clarified better on that...I think older US tools that have survived to today seem to have more of a feel of being thought out, designed, and produced by people who knew and used tools every day. There wasn't a whole bunch of goofy gimmick stuff or corners cut to make a tool cheaper, they were designed to work and to last. A lot of tools today seem to be designed on how easy it they are to market, and what "new and improved time-saver design!" sticker can be put on the box. Aside from SK and Channellock, I can't think of many US companies that design and make their own tools in the US that don't seem to buy into flashy advertising and shiny packaging and just stick with solid, reasonably-priced, well-made tools (Snap-on and Mac do, but they're usually prohibitively expensive for the average wrencher).

 

[HandyManny]

Yeah, I should have clarified better on that...I think older US tools that have survived to today seem to have more of a feel of being thought out, designed, and produced by people who knew and used tools every day. There wasn't a whole bunch of goofy gimmick stuff or corners cut to make a tool cheaper, they were designed to work and to last. A lot of tools today seem to be designed on how easy it they are to market, and what "new and improved time-saver design!" sticker can be put on the box. Aside from SK and Channellock, I can't think of many US companies that design and make their own tools in the US that don't seem to buy into flashy advertising and shiny packaging and just stick with solid, reasonably-priced, well-made tools (Snap-on and Mac do, but they're usually prohibitively expensive for the average wrencher).

Yup. I agree There are a few other makers here in the USA too that don't buy into all that flashy gimicky stuff too, but they are also too light on the marketing aspect, which keeps them largely unnoticed by many.

Channellock seems to be playing the game exactly right. I wish more US tool makers would take some lessons from Channellock these days.

 

[Alfajuj]

Snap on leaves the USA stamp off of any tool that isn't ABSOLUTELY 100% made in USA; Even if the vast majority of the tool IS made in USA. Take the ratchets: They are forged and finished in the USA, but they are assembled in the USA with ratchet internals that are made in Taiwan. Why? Because the supplier has a patent and because those ratchet internals are the absolute best available. There's a powerhouse inventor here in Taiwan named Bobby Hu. He's got over 167 patents and he has invented the best ratchet internals that money can buy. Everyone uses them. Look at your Hazet ratchet again. You'll notice it doesn't have a COO either. I suspect it's for the same reason...
All the good ratcheting combination wrenches are the same situation.

 

[chadster1]

Snap on leaves the USA stamp off of any tool that isn't ABSOLUTELY 100% made in USA; Even if the vast majority of the tool IS made in USA. Take the ratchets: They are forged and finished in the USA, but they are assembled in the USA with ratchet internals that are made in Taiwan. Why? Because the supplier has a patent and because those ratchet internals are the absolute best available. There's a powerhouse inventor here in Taiwan named Bobby Hu. He's got over 167 patents and he has invented the best ratchet internals that money can buy. Everyone uses them. Look at your Hazet ratchet again. You'll notice it doesn't have a COO either. I suspect it's for the same reason...
All the good ratcheting combination wrenches are the same situation.

Really? Wow you have names in your rant to make us believe you. Well, I hate to burst your bubble troll but Snap-on is now stamping their ratchets with USA. You should start seeing these ratchets hit the street within the next 30-60 days.

 

[magova1104]

And here comes Snap on back to deceive us. I doubt Snap on will do that, and if it does it is because buyers were disappointed already! Snap on was not honest by putting USA as their COO in several hand tools in their website.
Thanks to forums like this and other similar, consumers are opening their eyes and realizing that buying Snap on does not help the economy of this country, is quite the opposite! Snap on sells their products at the same price as before, with cheaper products. That is cheating!

Perhaps no one has entered a Snap on truck lately?

 

[t100]

maybe NOW they are 100% American made?

 

[RatchetMan]

Really? Wow you have names in your rant to make us believe you. Well, I hate to burst your bubble troll but Snap-on is now stamping their ratchets with USA. You should start seeing these ratchets hit the street within the next 30-60 days.

I see you are a snapon dealer? Can you sell new tools to us via this site? Does that violate some franchisee agreement?

 

[magova1104]

Snap on leaves the USA stamp off of any tool that isn't ABSOLUTELY 100% made in USA; Even if the vast majority of the tool IS made in USA. Take the ratchets: They are forged and finished in the USA, but they are assembled in the USA with ratchet internals that are made in Taiwan. Why? Because the supplier has a patent and because those ratchet internals are the absolute best available. There's a powerhouse inventor here in Taiwan named Bobby Hu. He's got over 167 patents and he has invented the best ratchet internals that money can buy. Everyone uses them. Look at your Hazet ratchet again. You'll notice it doesn't have a COO either. I suspect it's for the same reason...
All the good ratcheting combination wrenches are the same situation.

Exactly! I know Taiwan makes some good tools, but why Snap on wants to deny that some of their tools are made there? SIMPLE! Because they know they can MAKE MORE MONEY.

 

[lennoxlennox]

Exactly! I know Taiwan makes some good tools, but why Snap on wants to deny that some of their tools are made there? SIMPLE! Because they know they can MAKE MORE MONEY.

not this **** again

63 posts in this thread... um ya... TROLL

spews out baseless posts backed up only on his supposition.... um ya TROLL

trolling trolling trolling... keep those trollers trolling

(Don't feed the TROLL!)

 

[Creditor]

...Perhaps no one has entered a Snap on truck lately?

Oh, one of the "Snap-on must be hurting as a company" crowd.

As of this posting, SNA stock has increased 42% year to date and the median forecasted price calls for an additional 11.2% price increase over the next 12 months. You can't have these kind of increases without increases in sales. I think I will keep my investment in SNA stock for the time being.

Here is a link to back up my facts in my post.

http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=SNA

 

[d.mcfarland]

Oh, one of the "Snap-on must be hurting as a company" crowd.

As of this posting, SNA stock has increased 42% year to date and the median forecasted price calls for an additional 11.2% price increase over the next 12 months. You can't have these kind of increases without increases in sales. I think I will keep my investment in SNA stock for the time being.

Here is a link to back up my facts in my post.

http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=SNA

Careful, sales don't necessarily mean profits, which is what stockholders are after. Is SO a good long term investment? I think it will do just fine, assuming nothing major stops it.

 

[Creditor]

Careful, sales don't necessarily mean profits, which is what stockholders are after. Is SO a good long term investment? I think it will do just fine, assuming nothing major stops it.

Growth & Valuation
Earnings growth (last year) +47.65%
Earnings growth (this year) +12.89%
Earnings growth (next 5 years) +10.00%
Revenue growth (last year) +11.08%
P/E ratio 14.6
Price/Sales 0.99
Price/Book 2.73

Looks like profits to me.

Edited to add more info.

Financials
Next reporting date October 18, 2012
EPS forecast (this quarter) $1.23
Annual revenue (last year) $3.0B
Annual profit (last year) $276.3M
Net profit margin 9.28%

 

[Conductor562]

I don't want to believe this, but I can't say it would surprise me too much either. I got a surprise awhile back when I discovered my Proto locking pliers were made is Spain.

 

[FiendFX]

It's true that snap on uses other company's product and slap their name on and just warranty the product. For example, their 1/2" cordless gun is actually a milwaukee gun. You can get it cheaper at home depot.

 

[chadster1]

It's true that snap on uses other company's product and slap their name on and just warranty the product. For example, their 1/2" cordless gun is actually a milwaukee gun. You can get it cheaper at home depot.

Well aren't you are just a wealth of misinformation. Milwaukee does not make any power tools for Snap-on.

 

[91bronc300]

He's got over 167 patents

Why do people do that ****? Why not just say 'he has 168 patents'? As if by being slightly vague we will all be impressed

'Oh wow, he must have thousands of patents! Says here he has OVER 167!'

 

[Skin]

Snap on leaves the USA stamp off of any tool that isn't ABSOLUTELY 100% made in USA; Even if the vast majority of the tool IS made in USA. Take the ratchets: They are forged and finished in the USA, but they are assembled in the USA with ratchet internals that are made in Taiwan. Why? Because the supplier has a patent and because those ratchet internals are the absolute best available. There's a powerhouse inventor here in Taiwan named Bobby Hu. He's got over 167 patents and he has invented the best ratchet internals that money can buy. Everyone uses them. Look at your Hazet ratchet again. You'll notice it doesn't have a COO either. I suspect it's for the same reason...
All the good ratcheting combination wrenches are the same situation.

i have around 8 Hazet ratchets ranging from the old style to the new round head fine tooth, they all say germany. Second while snap-on doesnt stamp USA on some items the actual retail packaging does state "contents manufactured in USA" and by doing such means it conforms to the FCC rules. If they were using Taiwan guts they'd, by law, have to change that to 'assembled in USA with global components'. As far as the dual 80 is concerned i know for a fact Snap-On holds the patent, not some guy in taiwan. Why did you bump this thread? Just to troll and spew misinformation? Let it die.

 

[Monte]

Look at your Hazet ratchet again. You'll notice it doesn't have a COO either.

Hazet ratchets have a coo....

I suspect it's for the same reason...

The Hazet fine tooth ratchets use Facom design ratchet internals which were invented before Taiwan started making tools and the Hazet coarse tooth ratchets internals are probably older than Taiwan itself

 

[Alfajuj]

What's with all the hostility? I really don't appreciate being called a "troll". I love Snap-On and I love Hazet.

I really regret stirring up this hornet's nest and ******* off both the Snap-On and the Hazet people, but let's leave out the conjecture and just state the facts from direct observation or from credible sources:

• I have 3 Hazet ratchets:

I have a new-old-stock 882 socket set. I'm not sure of the exact age, but it's less than 20 years.
The 8816P 3/8 drive ratchet has the black grip with "Hazet GERMANY" printed on the grip. It is not stamped in the metal, but I guess we can consider the printing on the grip a COO.

The 863P 1/4 drive ratchet is the same.

All the other parts of the set are stamped "GERMANY" down to the tiniest 1/4" socket and screwdriver bit. You practically need a loupe to read it.

But...

I have a 916SP 1/2 drive ratchet which was part of a 900 set I bought new in 2008. The stamped marking on the tool is as follows:
"CHROM HAZET 916SP VANADIUM" the blue soft grip says "HAZET" on both sides. There is no COO. The two extensions 917-5 and 918-10 also have no COO stamp.All of the other parts in the set have "GERMANY" and the sliding T-handle 915 is stamped "W.GERMANY"


So maybe your older Hazet has the COO stamp, but mine does not.

Go look at a new Hazet ratchet.

• There's a member who is an industry insider in Taichung who used to work at Hi-Five Products Developing Company and he specifically told me that the Hazet ratcheting combination wrenches were made by Lea Way.
  
  

  Lea Way uses special forgings specifically for the Hazet wrench shape. For overall quality, Lea Way is probably third or fourth in Taiwan. Hard to say what % of their problems are due to the wonky gear tooth design they are locked into, and what % are in-house control issues.

  
  
  

  Sorry Alfa, it is almost 5:00PM and Friday afternoon. I'd rather give a considered answer than something off the top of my head before I run out the door, so I'll try and catch this thread again tomorrow morning. Let me just say for now that the two companies I know of that Facom buys from are Rotar and Hi-Five. Snap-On buys from Cendai and Hi-Five.
  
  Weekend is here. Later, guys.

• I personally contacted the Snap-On Taiwan Branch and asked them If any Snap-on components including ratchet internals were made in Taiwan and they said yes.

• At my work, one of our OEM clients is Virax France, which is a sister company to Facom. One of the managers had just come over to Virax from Facom. In our meetings I had plenty of opportunity to ask him about Facom. He told me that most Facom tools are now made in Taiwan.