scubadoober
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2017
- Messages
- 511
I really have my eye on the 452QR, but haven't seen one on sale yet.
Socket dilemma - Koken vs Stahlwille
- Thread starter ToolRoom
- Start date
I really have my eye on the 452QR, but haven't seen one on sale yet.
Toolroom,
I was in much the same situation as you, I had bought a decent quality set of Taiwanese (or perhaps they were even Chinese, I'm sure they are by now) hand tools branded "JBS" in Australia.
They did me well for almost 25 years (where does the time go??) of spannering on bikes and cars and other stuff, and other than the pliers and the #2 Phillips screwdriver, everything was still serviceable enough and working well enough for my requirements, but I hankered for 'nicer'.
I started by really needing some new and preferably better screwdrivers and pliers, but then other upgrades flowed from that, mainly because I wanted the enjoyment of having and using nice tools. Having a bit of spare money these days I can justify it at least to myself, and since finding this forum I am happy to find I am not alone.
I was in much the same situation as you, I had bought a decent quality set of Taiwanese (or perhaps they were even Chinese, I'm sure they are by now) hand tools branded "JBS" in Australia.
They did me well for almost 25 years (where does the time go??) of spannering on bikes and cars and other stuff, and other than the pliers and the #2 Phillips screwdriver, everything was still serviceable enough and working well enough for my requirements, but I hankered for 'nicer'.
I started by really needing some new and preferably better screwdrivers and pliers, but then other upgrades flowed from that, mainly because I wanted the enjoyment of having and using nice tools. Having a bit of spare money these days I can justify it at least to myself, and since finding this forum I am happy to find I am not alone.
Probably being launched at the Cologne tool fair next month along with the 1/4" version the 416QR
Last edited:
Thank you Mr B for the picture. I would like to think Koken might have ironed the issue out of their current offerings for what they charge, but at least I know what I might have to expect.
I’ve just picked up a set of TopTul impact sockets and they seem pretty solid and not nearly as “clunky” as I expected. If they stand up as well as others on here have suggested, I should be quite happy.
I’ve been considering the options further and digging about through part numbers and prices and I think a compromise between head, heart and wallet might be the best route.
Going with a Taiwanese brand such as TopTul or Genius for the half inch drive would drastically reduce the total cost, allowing me to pick up 1/4 and 3/8 in Koken. Stahlwille still seems a bit too much of a stretch unless I stumble on a smoking deal.
My thinking (which might be total rubbish) is the 1/2 sizes are generally more robust with looser tolerances anyway, while the smaller sizes would get more benefit from a more precise and slimmer fit, if there is one. I also tend to use 1/4 drive more than I used to, so I would be investing into the ones I use the most.
Finding TopTul suppliers that actually want to sell their products is slightly more difficult though – or at least those which are not charging Koken prices.
Outdated (like the name, wish I’d thought of it!), it sounds like you are in the same position as me and certainly not alone. I don’t think I live extravagantly, and spending a little more on some good quality tools which will provide many years of use and enjoyment seems a good way to invest the spare beer money.
That said, I am also quite keen on lesser well known but quality makes which don’t carry the “brand tax”.
I’ve just picked up a set of TopTul impact sockets and they seem pretty solid and not nearly as “clunky” as I expected. If they stand up as well as others on here have suggested, I should be quite happy.
I’ve been considering the options further and digging about through part numbers and prices and I think a compromise between head, heart and wallet might be the best route.
Going with a Taiwanese brand such as TopTul or Genius for the half inch drive would drastically reduce the total cost, allowing me to pick up 1/4 and 3/8 in Koken. Stahlwille still seems a bit too much of a stretch unless I stumble on a smoking deal.
My thinking (which might be total rubbish) is the 1/2 sizes are generally more robust with looser tolerances anyway, while the smaller sizes would get more benefit from a more precise and slimmer fit, if there is one. I also tend to use 1/4 drive more than I used to, so I would be investing into the ones I use the most.
Finding TopTul suppliers that actually want to sell their products is slightly more difficult though – or at least those which are not charging Koken prices.
Outdated (like the name, wish I’d thought of it!), it sounds like you are in the same position as me and certainly not alone. I don’t think I live extravagantly, and spending a little more on some good quality tools which will provide many years of use and enjoyment seems a good way to invest the spare beer money.
That said, I am also quite keen on lesser well known but quality makes which don’t carry the “brand tax”.
I find the premier branded taiwan sockets excellent for the potential low cost of on rail sets. only sockets and extensions mind, ratchets and more particular tools best spending little more on. Premier sockets of half chrome half satin design I got held up as good or better than branded stuff 4x the cost plus sizing and socket design spot on .
Toptul and genius both decent taiwan stuff but both hard find all you want and at decent prices .
Main thing is spread your budget wisely and with brands covering all size range you need and quality/design to your personal liking .
Hope you like what you finally decide on and enjoy tools you get .
I do love my Koken 1/4 sockets as nice small size, lot of 1/4 sockets these days seem almost 3/8 drive size and thickish walls which not great, shallower and thinner walls of koken 1/4 made them super useful over the years .
Will also agree ratchet back drag super low with koken, lot of good ratchets out there these days though and koken ratchet range not the most complete currently .
I'm 30yrs into my career and only chrome sockets I intend buy for replacements when needed will be premier or nutmaster at sale price.
For impacts I got japan style cr-v and nutmaster sets which can be had at total steal pricing . proper cr-v impacts can be real good (correct grade and heat treatment), lot of the current cr-mo impacts are soft as clay lol .
Toptul and genius both decent taiwan stuff but both hard find all you want and at decent prices .
Main thing is spread your budget wisely and with brands covering all size range you need and quality/design to your personal liking .
Hope you like what you finally decide on and enjoy tools you get .
I do love my Koken 1/4 sockets as nice small size, lot of 1/4 sockets these days seem almost 3/8 drive size and thickish walls which not great, shallower and thinner walls of koken 1/4 made them super useful over the years .
Will also agree ratchet back drag super low with koken, lot of good ratchets out there these days though and koken ratchet range not the most complete currently .
I'm 30yrs into my career and only chrome sockets I intend buy for replacements when needed will be premier or nutmaster at sale price.
For impacts I got japan style cr-v and nutmaster sets which can be had at total steal pricing . proper cr-v impacts can be real good (correct grade and heat treatment), lot of the current cr-mo impacts are soft as clay lol .
Last edited:
As an addendum to the saga,
I picked up a few TopTul sockets, impact and chrome to get a feel for them.
I thought I would post some comparison pictures, Stahlwille, Ko-Ken and TopTul. Not the same sizes, but roughly similar 1/4 sockets.
Not the greatest comparison, but all I have to hand.
I'm not certain if it is the nature of the e-torx design, but the TopTul sockets are noticeably girthier and longer. Ko-Ken and Stahlwille on par.
I really like the satin finish on the TopTul sockets, very similar to the non-polished areas on the Ko-Ken.
Overall I was pleasantly surprised at how well finished the TopTul sockets were, the impacts also seem good quality although I'm confused as to why the SAE sizes are much slimmer and shorter than their metric equivalents - almost chrome-like dimensions but only on the SAE.
TopTul also seem to be more reluctant to come off the end of a ratchet, taking quite a bit of effort in the 3/8 sizes. However they do seem to be a "step-up" in general from my previous ROC sockets.
I think Ko-Ken are still nicer than TopTul, but I was quite surprised at how little was in it. Certainly I'm now much keener to fill out my 1/2 drive with TopTul. Shame the SAE sizes aren't offered in the Satin finish, I suspect that will hold up better.
I picked up a few TopTul sockets, impact and chrome to get a feel for them.
I thought I would post some comparison pictures, Stahlwille, Ko-Ken and TopTul. Not the same sizes, but roughly similar 1/4 sockets.
Not the greatest comparison, but all I have to hand.
I'm not certain if it is the nature of the e-torx design, but the TopTul sockets are noticeably girthier and longer. Ko-Ken and Stahlwille on par.
I really like the satin finish on the TopTul sockets, very similar to the non-polished areas on the Ko-Ken.
Overall I was pleasantly surprised at how well finished the TopTul sockets were, the impacts also seem good quality although I'm confused as to why the SAE sizes are much slimmer and shorter than their metric equivalents - almost chrome-like dimensions but only on the SAE.
TopTul also seem to be more reluctant to come off the end of a ratchet, taking quite a bit of effort in the 3/8 sizes. However they do seem to be a "step-up" in general from my previous ROC sockets.
I think Ko-Ken are still nicer than TopTul, but I was quite surprised at how little was in it. Certainly I'm now much keener to fill out my 1/2 drive with TopTul. Shame the SAE sizes aren't offered in the Satin finish, I suspect that will hold up better.
Attachments
Last edited:
Wamsutta
Well-known member
Your picture shows the detent as being pretty deep; that could be why.
^ toptul would do way better if consistent design options across all sockets.
I'm a big fan of satin.
stahlwille finish nice as is the knurl ring, premier do same on the better taiwan sockets they do and lower half is satin .
Koken decent size and finish texture, really like a grove or knurl on them for better handling .
My favourites 3/8 and 1/2 are stahlwille and premier half satin, 1/4 is koken due to slim profiles and lower half satin texture .
I'm a big fan of satin.
stahlwille finish nice as is the knurl ring, premier do same on the better taiwan sockets they do and lower half is satin .
Koken decent size and finish texture, really like a grove or knurl on them for better handling .
My favourites 3/8 and 1/2 are stahlwille and premier half satin, 1/4 is koken due to slim profiles and lower half satin texture .
Well Japan and Germany produce the best steel and metal products in the world by a fairly long shot. I have Stahlwille sockets and their DBE Stabil offset wrenches. If how a tool looks is most important, go with Koken.....if sheer quality and practicality is what you want go Stahlwille. The finish on Stahwille is nowhere near that Snap On perfect jewelry type but its finish feels great in the hand and will look the same for many, many years to come. I'd get Belzer if you have a NOS source, they were the pioneers of Chrome Vanadium many decades ago. I have a fair bit of their Vanadium Extra sockets & well they are kinda the best.
If knurling functionality is really important to you, Wera sockets are second to none. I have a few in individual sises for tasks where I need to reach a soft hex head by hand. On top of excellent satin finish. Horrible marking (that I don't really need) and girly colour coding though. Sorry for veering off topic.
The best chrome I've owned on tools is from the 1st to invent/use chrome vanadium in tools & socketry. That is German tool maker Belzer, the 'Vanadium Extra' sockets I have (bought NOS) is in a league of its own. The Deep Stahlwille 1/4" sockets I have are extremely light compared to other makes, kinda feels like the weight of alloy or aluminum. I can check the series if anyone is interested. I think the OP should consider Hazet, Gedore & KTC too as they are pretty nice tools. I love a thread that is about quality tools besides SO. I don't own a single SO tool but I'd buy a long dual 80 flex at the right price.....here they command over $300+ new.
Then you may like this:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201468
The Stahlwille alloy is incredible. I only wish he finished the testing.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201468
The Stahlwille alloy is incredible. I only wish he finished the testing.
Dave455
Well-known member
I buy mine from Consolidated Tools in Manchester. Good prices and easy to deal with.
Don’t worry about whether the item you want is on the website or not, just pick from the Koken website and he’ll get it. Koken seem to keep really good stocks in the U.K.
If you buy a fair bit I’m sure you will get a decent discount!
Hush 74 1985
Active member
Stahlwille have been in business for more than 100 hundred years. In terms of support and warranty you are better off going with Stahlwille.
Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app
Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app
The collector
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2022
- Messages
- 218
Nepros lol