Socket dilemma - Koken vs Stahlwille

[ToolRoom]

True first world problems to have....

I'm considering starting afresh and upgrading my socket/extension/ratchets having made do with an eclectic mixture of cheap and cheerfuls over the years.

I have used both Koken and Stahlwille, and these seem to offer the best value for the quality and are reasonably easy to source for me.

I’m on the fence between the two brands and looking for some feedback from those who have used/owned both. What you liked, didn’t like? – anything else to consider to help me decide. Feedback gratefully received.

I don’t think I will go far wrong with either and may well end up with a mixture.

 

[s14kev]

Have you been dreaming about upgrading sockets for years? Do you dwell over sockets styles that of course have identical functionality?

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323042

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324316

You have come to the right place of course! However you drag out decisions even longer than I do looking at your previous posts

On another note, I'd go for Koken if you don't care about what others think. I have both and prefer Koken. Stahlwille is superior if you think you will ever sell them as they will command much more on the used tool market.

 

[M6erfan]

Tough choice, you wouldn't be wrong with either. I have Ko-ken sockets and they are very nice. Stahlwille is incredibly expensive in the U.S.

I say flip a coin...

 

[KoolGrandWizardLuke]

Go Ko-Ken. I prefer the fit of them and they have a larger selection than Stahlwille as well.

 

[Tonyuk]

Have you looked into toptul? I have a few of their bits now and have been very happy with them for the price.

 

[Mr_B]

I like both, stahlwille finish is more durable.
I got all my 1/4 sockets in koken and do like them.
Worth looking into better end taiwan stuff too, premier sockets and extensions are good and can be had cheap online. Most used ratchets best decent quality but surprising what can find from toptul werkzueg for speciality non daily ratchets etc.

 

[Gmonkee]

Ko ken. Zeal for the bling factor. Nepros bling bamboo handle ratchets. Not the most toothy ratchets out there but the cool display boxes make up for 36t gears.

I have used the Stahville sockets and they were good. One time, one small job so no long term impression.

If you're dreaming go for the stuff of dreams.

 

[Dave455]

I've got both, and use both regularly.

I'd say that Stahlwille are just a tad ahead in terms of pure quality and durability, but only just.

I have some old Stahlwille that belonged to my Dad and it's lasted seriously well. The new stuff seems to be just as good, and Stahlwille don't seem to be prone to cost cutting like some makers. The steel is first class, as is the heat treatment and the sockets last superbly well. The Stahlwille finish, which is a true 'satin', is as durable as any finish gets (it's the only one that actually seems to improve with use, as it polishes slightly) and I love the flowing style of the extensions and suchlike - they don't have sharp edges and don't hang up on hoses etc.

Downsides of Stahlwille, they do have a tendency to push tools with soft finish handles. These are **** for most purposes, and especially if you're looking for a long lasting tool, as they don't. You can get all steel ratchets, and they are very nice, ESPECIALLY the new fine tooth ones, but there is a limited range of these, and no long handle or flex. Yes, it's expensive in the U.S. I probably wouldn't buy it there, but I'm in the U.K. and it's cheap!

KoKen - superb stuff. Use it a lot, and increasingly it's my 'go to' brand if I need something in a hurry. It's durable (used on production lines in Japan) and the finish is a superb bright chrome. The range is huge. If you want specialist sockets, specialist ratchets or anything like that KoKen are the folks. Have a look at the catalogue on their website and you will be amazed.

Downside. I don't think the chrome is quite as durable as say Snap On, but considering that KoKen is about a third the price of Snap On in the U.K. I don't think you can go wrong. You never suffer 'buyers remorse' with KoKen, in fact, every time I buy some I find myself thinking what superb stuff it is, and how much I've got for the money. Some things they do superbly well, such as spark plug sockets, stud extractors and impact drivers. For these items there are no better manufacturers!

No point whatsoever looking at the 'better' Taiwanese tools. In the U.K. you can get KoKen from a decent supplier for comparable / less money!

 

[turnthewrench 2.0]

Tough choice,... I say flip a coin...

+1. Two high-quality tool brands, among my favorites. They make a nice couple too!

Downsides of Stahlwille, they do have a tendency to push tools with soft finish handles.

True. I don't think this handle will last a generation or even half. The ratchet itself is superbly smooth and silent - I want louder clicks!

Also, unlike others, they still paint the little thingy green

 

[Mr_B]

koken sockets in uk going be good 35% more than premier taiwan rail sets .
Koken plus point is coverage and 12 point plus 6 point plus slender design .
Koken chrome chips much like snapon, stahlwille one of best durable finishes for sockets and wrenches .
Can't go too far wrong with koken stahlwille premier for socket and extensions.

 

[maico]

+1. Two high-quality tool brands, among my favorites. They make a nice couple too!

True. I don't think this handle will last a generation or even half. The ratchet itself is superbly smooth and silent - I want louder clicks!

All Stahlwille 80 tooth ratchets are available in steel handles

https://www.stahlwille.de/fileadmin...lyer/en/stahlwille-fine-tooth-ratchets-en.pdf

 

[turnthewrench 2.0]

All Stahlwille 80 tooth ratchets are available in steel handles

https://www.stahlwille.de/fileadmin...lyer/en/stahlwille-fine-tooth-ratchets-en.pdf

It was not in stock in amazon.de when I bought it - Thank you!

 

[maico]

Neat Stahlwille 80 tooth service animation here

 

[Mr_B]

the 80 tooth metal handle ratchets are pretty nice just shame limited range as if had long versions and flexi's and sold in sets would be good .

 

[Dave455]

the 80 tooth metal handle ratchets are pretty nice just shame limited range as if had long versions and flexi's and sold in sets would be good .

Yep! Totally agree. The steel handle ratchets are lovely tools, I've had my 3/8 drive one for at least 15 years, and like it so much I may be tempted by the fine tooth!

But... come on Stahlwille, this is 2018 and long handle or flex head ratchets have been the norm for decades, but you dudes are making ONE 'standard length' steel ratchet in each drive size!

This is where KoKen do leap ahead - short length, standard length, long, flex head, locking flex head, then all the options again in quick release, then again in 3 different handle styles! Not to mention compact head, flat head and roto head, or the 3 options for tooth count, and that's before you get to 'specials'! You've got to love 'em!

 

[Dave455]

And... just as we've convinced the OP to go down the Stahlwille route here are some KoKen ratchets to confuse the issue!

These are all first class tools, but note the different handle styles. I generally opt for the smooth style I can wipe off, but if you want something more grippy, such as with the roto head that you might want to twist, then that's available!

That roto head is a serious tool by the way!

 

[BK13]

Given the choice between these two, I'd go KoKen in a heartbeat.

Now if we're talking about Hazet vs. KoKen, I'd have to think a little (or a lot) more. LOL

Not that my uses will ever stress either one.

 

[Wamsutta]

Given the choice, I would most definitely get the Stahlwille. Most definitely.

 

[maico]

Yep! Totally agree. The steel handle ratchets are lovely tools, I've had my 3/8 drive one for at least 15 years, and like it so much I may be tempted by the fine tooth!

But... come on Stahlwille, this is 2018 and long handle or flex head ratchets have been the norm for decades, but you dudes are making ONE 'standard length' steel ratchet in each drive size!

This is where KoKen do leap ahead - short length, standard length, long, flex head, locking flex head, then all the options again in quick release, then again in 3 different handle styles! Not to mention compact head, flat head and roto head, or the 3 options for tooth count, and that's before you get to 'specials'! You've got to love 'em!

I think you need to read the Stahlwille catalogue !

The 1/4" 80 tooth steel handle is available in long and standard.

They make lockable flex head ratchets in 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 with circular 60 tooth heads.

They also make long 1/2 ratchets although both are the old style 36 tooth heads

 

[Dave455]

I think you need to read the Stahlwille catalogue !

The 1/4" 80 tooth steel handle is available in long and standard.

They make lockable flex head ratchets in 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 with circular 60 tooth heads.

They also make long 1/2 ratchets although both are the old style 36 tooth heads

That's great news, was that the paper catalogue?

I've just looked at stahlwille.co.uk and Stahlwille.de and the only 1/4 inch steel handle ratchet they list there is the standard length. Obviously a bit out of date though as they only list the 415 SG-QR, not the 415 SG--QRN, which is the new fine tooth version!

I've seen the round tooth flex head ratchets, but they are weird things with square shafts and plastic handles.

The only long handle 1/2 inch ratchets I've seen are the 'soft handle' versions.

Did you notice the part numbers for any of the the all steel long handle ratchets?

 

[maico]

I had a look at the video and the 415 QRL N is shown at 1.55 min although not in the steel handle version. Maybe they wont make one as steel handles are not popular in cold countries and they already offer 3 steel FOD ones

The part numbers are on page 5 of the pdf

11 11 10 30
415SG-QR N

12 11 10 30
435SG-QR N

13 11 10 30
512SG-QR N

https://www.stahlwille.de/fileadmin...lyer/en/stahlwille-fine-tooth-ratchets-en.pdf

 

[Dave455]

Yes, I saw that, but there is no mention of long handle or flex head ratchets with the all steel handle!

I know what you mean about the steel handles not being popular in some countries, but I just always seem to get brake fluid, oil, grease and grime on mine, and if I go down the 'soft handle' route, they then pick up grit and get shredded! For me, steel handles are the way to go!

I havn't seen the fine tooth ratchets for real yet. TBS Aachen (generally about the cheapest) are quoting 14 days so I may go for it, order one, and report back!

My old 3/8 drive (435 SG I think) from before the days of quick release is probably my most used ratchet. I got it years back when I first got Stahlwille metric sockets, and although I also have a few Snap On ratchets I tend to go for the Stahlwille first as I don't have to be to careful with the finish!

It's worn well, I'd get another!

 

[Mr_B]

only ones I seen they do are older 24T style with metal handle.
the 80T range as of yet does not cover long or flexi and no idea why not .
Finish durability on stahlwille is legendary .
I would of bought lot of ratchets had they produced a bigger range .

 

[turnthewrench 2.0]

We're anxiously awaiting the OP's decision on sockets!

 

[maico]

I've got the current Stahlwille 1/2" and 3/8th FOD 80 tooth ratchets. The 3/8th is similar to my Snap-On dual 80 but quieter and with less drag back. Once the FX 80 SO is broken in though I expect they will feel the same. I wish I'd gone for the soft handle version though.

The longest lasting component handles might be Facom. Most of my Facom is the earlier French made stuff. I've had the standard length 3/8 palm control since the mid 90s. Seems impervious to brake fluid and oil with typical home use and it has actually had a lot of use. Replacement handles and mechs are available. Correct tension of the locking screw and oil, not dried out grease, is vital for correct operation.

(note: Facom circular 1/4 and 3/8 mechs are interchangeable so you can create frankenratchets !)

 

[ultgar]

(note: Facom circular 1/4 and 3/8 mechs are interchangeable so you can create frankenratchets !)

I only realized this recently. Facom offers a R.161RN and J.161RN repair kit for 1/4" drive and 3/8" drive ratchets respectively. The same parts (screw, pawl & spring) are in both kits. The 1/4" drive kit is cheaper.

 

[ToolRoom]

Thanks for all your feedback guys – I didn’t expect a two page thread, guess I’m not quite as nuts as I first thought.

I do really like the Stahlwille finish, especially the knurling/jimping which does seem to give a better finger grip even though it is not aggressive. I love the finish on my Stahlwille spanners.

I also prefer the aesthetics of the Stahlwille – can’t put my finger on it but they just seem more… uh elegant? Sad I know.

Stahlwille make a big thing about the slim profile and high strength of their sockets – not sure how this stacks up against Koken in the real world.


Koken does offer a bigger range and looks to work out about 15-20% cheaper (or more selection for my budget).

Stahlwille don’t seem to sell strips of sockets like Koken does, so you either have to buy them singularly or in a full kit (I’d prefer to build up a set to go in my box of the sizes and types I want).


I’ve seen a few comments about the Koken chrome chipping – is this a common issue? Nothing looks nastier then peeling chrome IMO.

I’m firmly in the all metal handle ratchet design camp, Koken ones look good but they seem to be adverse to using fine tooth mechanisms.
Is the reverse selector on the Stahlwille plastic, or just some type of sintered metal (looks plastic in the catalogue)?

I’m still deliberating and going through the catalogues from both companies. This is going to run to quite a significant investment, which I’m happy to make – but need to put to bed any doubts before I take the plunge. I have already purchased a small set of Koken BA sizes and I have some stahlwille to compare but haven’t used them enough to form a preference.

If I’m honest with myself, I’ve done just fine with a cheap Taiwanese set that has rebuilt many cars in its time and held up extremely well – so this is very much an indulgence rather than a necessity. I'll be probably looking to TopTul or similar for impacts as they tend to get hammered.

 

[Olafur]

Here on Garage Journal the selection of chrome sockets seems to be big issue for DIY guys who baby their tools and tug them to bed each night after saying a prayer.

Every day a busy shop near me repairs HD trucks, agricultural, construction and earthmoving equipment, drill rigs and basically every rusted piece of junk someone manages to bring to the parking lot. Funny thing is they hardly ever bother to use impact sockets so the arsenal of impact guns is constantly hammering on chrome sockets. From Taiwan! And they hold up fine. Yes the most common sizes (17,19mm) mushroom out and crack and get replaced after 1-3 years of use. Few sockets per year between 10 mechanics. No biggie. Toptul and Sonic brands mostly.

I love quality tools just as much as the next guy and my chrome sockets are a mix of koken, stahlwille, snap on, facom, hazet and lately - toptul.

Let me put it this way - the Taiwanese have taken the joy out of buying expensive sockets. Their sockets will last the average DIY guy a lifetime or two. That's my honest opinion.

Between Stahlwille and Koken - both have been making top quality sockets for decades. Toss a coin!

 

[Mr_B]

Thanks for all your feedback guys – I didn’t expect a two page thread, guess I’m not quite as nuts as I first thought.

I do really like the Stahlwille finish, especially the knurling/jimping which does seem to give a better finger grip even though it is not aggressive. I love the finish on my Stahlwille spanners.

I also prefer the aesthetics of the Stahlwille – can’t put my finger on it but they just seem more… uh elegant? Sad I know.

Stahlwille make a big thing about the slim profile and high strength of their sockets – not sure how this stacks up against Koken in the real world.


Koken does offer a bigger range and looks to work out about 15-20% cheaper (or more selection for my budget).

Stahlwille don’t seem to sell strips of sockets like Koken does, so you either have to buy them singularly or in a full kit (I’d prefer to build up a set to go in my box of the sizes and types I want).


I’ve seen a few comments about the Koken chrome chipping – is this a common issue? Nothing looks nastier then peeling chrome IMO.

I’m firmly in the all metal handle ratchet design camp, Koken ones look good but they seem to be adverse to using fine tooth mechanisms.
Is the reverse selector on the Stahlwille plastic, or just some type of sintered metal (looks plastic in the catalogue)?

I’m still deliberating and going through the catalogues from both companies. This is going to run to quite a significant investment, which I’m happy to make – but need to put to bed any doubts before I take the plunge. I have already purchased a small set of Koken BA sizes and I have some stahlwille to compare but haven’t used them enough to form a preference.

If I’m honest with myself, I’ve done just fine with a cheap Taiwanese set that has rebuilt many cars in its time and held up extremely well – so this is very much an indulgence rather than a necessity. I'll be probably looking to TopTul or similar for impacts as they tend to get hammered.

If indulgence and home use I would go with premier taiwan sockets bought on rail sets and use the savings to buy good quality ratchet selection and accessories to make most of it.
As for impact, all the taiwan cr-mo and even cr-v are pretty good, laser have some japan style ones, bgs are pretty good .

Stahlwille is about as durable as chrome plating can be on a tool.
My koken have chipped and peeled quite a bit on popular sizes, reminds me of snapon open end wrench jaws lol (worse than taiwan sockets I have)
koken fit and slender design good as is coverage but chrome is not the most durable .

 

[American Locomotive]

We've beat on Koken sockets with a big angry IR impact and never had the chrome peel or chip. They also fit bolts the best out of any sockets I've used.

 

[M6erfan]

We've beat on Koken sockets with a big angry IR impact and never had the chrome peel or chip. They also fit bolts the best out of any sockets I've used.

I've never ad any Ko-ken chrome socket peel or chip either. But I've never beat them with an impact...

 

[Wamsutta]

I also prefer the aesthetics of the Stahlwille – can’t put my finger on it but they just seem more… uh elegant? Sad I know.

Would the side-lock hole be a factor? I thought I might mention it before you haul off and buy a set. The pictures in the catalog show some of the sockets having side-lock holes instead of detents.

 

[maico]

Thanks for all your feedback guys – I didn’t expect a two page thread, guess I’m not quite as nuts as I first thought.

I do really like the Stahlwille finish, especially the knurling/jimping which does seem to give a better finger grip even though it is not aggressive. I love the finish on my Stahlwille spanners.

I also prefer the aesthetics of the Stahlwille – can’t put my finger on it but they just seem more… uh elegant? Sad I know.

Stahlwille make a big thing about the slim profile and high strength of their sockets – not sure how this stacks up against Koken in the real world.


Koken does offer a bigger range and looks to work out about 15-20% cheaper (or more selection for my budget).

Stahlwille don’t seem to sell strips of sockets like Koken does, so you either have to buy them singularly or in a full kit (I’d prefer to build up a set to go in my box of the sizes and types I want).


I’ve seen a few comments about the Koken chrome chipping – is this a common issue? Nothing looks nastier then peeling chrome IMO.

I’m firmly in the all metal handle ratchet design camp, Koken ones look good but they seem to be adverse to using fine tooth mechanisms.
Is the reverse selector on the Stahlwille plastic, or just some type of sintered metal (looks plastic in the catalogue)?

I’m still deliberating and going through the catalogues from both companies. This is going to run to quite a significant investment, which I’m happy to make – but need to put to bed any doubts before I take the plunge. I have already purchased a small set of Koken BA sizes and I have some stahlwille to compare but haven’t used them enough to form a preference.

If I’m honest with myself, I’ve done just fine with a cheap Taiwanese set that has rebuilt many cars in its time and held up extremely well – so this is very much an indulgence rather than a necessity. I'll be probably looking to TopTul or similar for impacts as they tend to get hammered.

The reverse selector is metal.

It's notable that everything I have Stahlwille has rounded edges. Feels better in the hand for someone like me whose skin hasn't hardened up !

You also find surfaces with light sanding marks. Robot arms hold the forgings up to sanding belts before the matte cadmium free chrome plating process. On top end Taiwanese stuff they put a smoother finish on by bead blasting or abrasive drumming before plating. In the case of Facom wrenches satin chrome...

 

[M6erfan]

I’ve seen a few comments about the Koken chrome chipping – is this a common issue? Nothing looks nastier then peeling chrome IMO.

No. I've owned and used Ko-ken sockets/ratchets for a while now and I've NEVER had any issues with their finish. They really are top notch. And their ratchet handle knurling is functional and comfortable.

While Ko-ken never went for high tooth count on their ratchets, they are the absolute lowest back drag/smoothest ratchets I've ever handled. I've got higher tooth count ratchets but I always reach for my Koken's first.

 

[KoolGrandWizardLuke]

I’ve seen a few comments about the Koken chrome chipping – is this a common issue? Nothing looks nastier then peeling chrome IMO.

In the most literal sense chrome chipping and peeling is a common issue. This goes for most products that are chrome plated. Tools, truck bumpers, steel tubing, etc.

In the UK, New Zealand, and Australia Ko-Ken tools are most often used by industrial companies.
Ko-Ken chrome sockets will eventually chip when used with impact tools, used beyond their torque capacity such as to bend breaker bars, or when thrown onto metal or concrete floors.
Your question is similar to asking if damage to the bodies of Hilti power tools is common?

I personally have many Ko-Ken sockets and none are peeling or chipped.

 

[Dave455]

O.P. You're right about the Stahlwille finish. It is durable, and nice to use!

With regard to to shape of Stahlwille, it's more than just styling, it's very functional. Have you ever shot a 'dehorned' pistol? It's a feature often found on custom pistols where the sharp corners are eased or removed. When you handle the thing, especially clearing malfunctions, it doesn't 'bite' you or pinch like a 'factory' gun.

The smooth flowing style of the Stahlwille works the same way. There are no sharp edges to injure yourself on, and if you have to work round hoses and pipes it doesn't get 'hung up' at al!

If you do go down the Stahlwille route, bear in mind that the Chroming process is very traditional, and they spray paint the insides of the sockets silver. In use, this wears off early on. Don't panic, it's just the paint, the steel underneath is as hard as it gets!

I previously said that I didn't think the finish on the KoKen was as durable as say Snap On. It isn't, but I should probably qualify that statement. I've never, personally, had a problem with the chrome chipping or peeling on KoKen tools. I do find, that the finish scratches a little more easily than Snap On.

It's not a problem, and doesn't affect the functionality, but ultimately you don't get steak for burger money. If you are worried about it you can always use metal polish on the things!

I would echo the comments made by some others and say that I don't think you be disappointed with either!

 

[Mr_B]

My 3/8 metric set has chipped/peeled on common sizes like 10mm 12mm 13mm 14mm etc, I never use them on impacts and only light use on nano air ratchet . Stahlwille finish is different league.
I got stahlwille wrenches and sockets from over last 3 decades and while some worn as used daily not diy none suffer chip or peal .
fitment and height/thickness of koken sockets are great but I would buy taiwan before koken as had better from them in last 2 decades and they potentially 30% cheaper .
If wanting higher end brand name stahlwille would be one I would be looking into but exact details on socket range/coverage would need looking at as would total expected cost

 

[ToolRoom]

Here on Garage Journal the selection of chrome sockets seems to be big issue for DIY guys who baby their tools and tug them to bed each night after saying a prayer.

I am definitely guilty of looking after my tools, but I certainly wouldn’t apologise for it!

I no longer make a living from wrenching, but if I were I could see the advantage in using whatever gets the job done with the minimum investment – a means to an end, and nothing wrong with that at all. However, my garage time is now my chance to relax, and as such I like to enjoy using the tools – and there is a certain satisfaction to be had from using a quality tool over and above its function.

The Taiwanese sockets I have are excellent and held up very well, even some of the better Chinese ones are perfectly serviceable (although the ratchets are often junk). I really have no valid reason to upgrade other than the fact I’m missing sizes, they are somewhat clunky in design and now getting a bit worn - but mainly because I want something “nicer”.

Would the side-lock hole be a factor? I thought I might mention it before you haul off and buy a set. The pictures in the catalog show some of the sockets having side-lock holes instead of detents.

I’d probably skip those, I’m not a fan of locking holes and the button lock extensions don’t really appeal either, I have to admit.

The smooth flowing style of the Stahlwille works the same way. There are no sharp edges to injure yourself on, and if you have to work round hoses and pipes it doesn't get 'hung up' at al!

I know where you are coming from Dave, my Corona are simply a joy to use. Although they don’t look “finished” in the traditional sense, they really do feel well designed and fettled. That is what was drawing me to their sockets.

My 3/8 metric set has chipped/peeled on common sizes like 10mm 12mm 13mm 14mm etc, I never use them on impacts and only light use on nano air ratchet . Stahlwille finish is different league.

Mr B, do you have any pictures of the chipping on the Koken’s out of curiosity?

If wanting higher end brand name Stahlwille would be one I would be looking into but exact details on socket range/coverage would need looking at as would total expected cost

Looking at some rough figures for a set of Koken SAE and Metric 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 up to 32mm and 1 1/4 is going to work out about £1830 for sockets without extensions or ratchets etc. Just basic Hex and Bihex and Deep Hex. Stahlwille is looking to be closer 40% more pushing 2.5k – I really like Stahlwille, but not sure I like it that much! I was really hoping on putting together a fairly comprehensive set for £1500 all in but I may have to rethink that.

Top Tul were on my list for impacts, I think BGS are actually Chinese along with Bergen, US Pro etc.

 

[Mr_B]

^ I'll try do some photos tomorrow for you

BGS is a bit of a mix, lot of it taiwan, I have a few bits that been very good under werzueg bgs but you got have it in hand or do your homework on what good/bad . Bergen and us pro total junk unless total cheap budget minimal diy user .
I have complete set of koken 1/4 metric and standard sockets and extensions and do like them, chrome not bad on them and been in use 25yrs.
Prefer finish and compact design of stahlwille but koken is better socket range and reason I have full 1/4" range as easier buy as wanted and cheaper .
Both are good but long term hard used tool finish is hands down win to stahlwille .

images>

Happens quite a bit as had this13mm swapped out early on and had few guy in the shop also on koken as had regular truck supplier and few of them had issues same on most used sockets.
Main issue is bit sharp as thick chrome and same flake effect like the era of snapon wrenches which had similar chip/peel issue around jaws .
Current manufacture maybe better but koken only ones I got issue with out of variety of brands from likes of old draper japan, snapon, facom, stahlwille, premier and they all used/treated same ...
This is pro shop use not home/diy .

 

[maico]

New Stahlwille model, 517QR 80 teeth locking flex 417mm

(model code 13261010)