Socket Length Database - Please Contribute Data

[YoshiMoshi3]

I am trying to create a database, that will allow people to sort information on the various sockets from different manufacturers, to determine which sockets are best for their application. As of right now I'm just starting with length. So far I've added about 120 rows.


This is an example of what I got so far, sorting by 3/8 6 point shallow impact. I was surprised to find out that Capri Tools seems to have the shallowest sockets based on this sorting and for the sets I have gone through. They are very affordable.

I would like to expand this to include sets that I have not already gone through from other companies.

I would also like to expand this to different drive sizes, and even maybe SAE, as well as standard/semi-deep/mid length, and deep etc.. We could even add a bunch of other attributes as well, such as broach depth at some point...

For the source column, I'm trying to list the official website from the company where the data is found. But sometimes that is not is always possible. For some sets, it seems the length of the individual sockets is not listed online, and someone will have to manually measure and update the spreadsheet, for which I suppose we can put "measured by so and so" as the Source.

This should be a neat community project, and I'm interested in seeing where this goes and how it expands. Please update the spreadsheet with information that is missing, for sets I haven't gone through, and haven't added. Just add another row.

Socket Length Database

docs.google.com

This is a Google Spreadsheet.

If the individual sockets don't have a part number, we might just have to put the part number or SKU of the set they come in.

 

[CGarage]

Cool thread! I will support this.

What is your measuring reference?

Mitutoyo digital calipers?

 

[YoshiMoshi3]

Thanks! I really think a database like this should exist.

I presume digital calipers are fine. All entries I've gotten so far have been from their respective sites, if specified in specifications.

Haven't done any manual measuring yet. I presume the full length of the socket.

 

[Zewnten]

Cool thread! I will support this.

What is your measuring reference?

Mitutoyo digital calipers?

Why would brand of calipers matter as long as they were calibrated?

 

[CGarage]

Why would brand of calipers matter as long as they were calibrated?

Some are more accurate than others.

I had not realized that the OP was using published data from the manufacturers.

 

[YoshiMoshi3]

Some are more accurate than others.

I had not realized that the OP was using published data from the manufacturers.

If it's unpublished, I think we will have to manually measure. I didn't consider variation in calipers. I guess we can include it in the source field, "measured with Mitutoyo digital calipers" or similar. I have some no name Amazon brand (Neiko) sockets I'm planning on adding tonight that don't have a specified height. So I'll measure with my no name brand digital calipers lol. I don't even know who made the digital caliper I have, it's the cheapo ones that lots of people have. It does seem to be accurate enough. I have that super thin Ko-Ken 10 mm 1/4 chrome socket, and it measure 15.0 mm with it for the length, so seems to be ok.

 

[Doubled33]

While gathering data the depth of the socket that fits over the fastener may be a good thing to add to this database.

For example is the socket is 2” long the nut well may only be 1/2” deep.

 

[YoshiMoshi3]

While gathering data the depth of the socket that fits over the fastener may be a good thing to add to this database.

For example is the socket is 2” long the nut well may only be 1/2” deep.

I like this idea as well. Lots of dimensions and different types of sockets we can add to it as well.

 

[Gebirgekind]

Great idea! I'd be wary though of the manufacturers published numbers, several times recently I've received sockets that were different lengths than advertised including from Wright and Gray Canada. I think companies sometimes change out tooling for various reasons but don't update catalogs and websites.

 

[AEAdam]

Good to do, but maybe not as helpful as one might think. You unscrew the bolt, right? You need space behind the bolt head to get the bolt out. You need space to get the socket on. And you need to account for the gun or ratchet head. This is one reason I recommend semi deeps. When these don't work, I think you are in wrench territory to swivel socket land.

So while the concept is helpful, 6mm difference between sockets is probably not significant.

Just a suggestion:
As I've said many times, as a product designer, I design around the tools our shop and customers use. That's Snap On for us. My company/industry is not alone in this. Snap On tends to be small - shallow sockets are pretty shallow, wrenches and sockets tend to have small ODs. Therefore, I think it would be useful to use Snap On as a reference std. So, a Hazet socket might be +08mm in OD, +1.2mm in height, relative to Snap On. That could be a very useful comparison chart. There might well be some surprises.

Here's my earlier post:

shallow socket height comparison

ive looked and the closest thing I have found to a side by side comparison of socket height and overall dimensions was in the koken thread comparing the zeal sockets to a few others. has anyone out there ever done a comparison with pictures showing a wide variety of sockets right next to each...

www.garagejournal.com

I was surprised that:
The same size socket wasn't necessary appreciably shorter in the next smaller drive size.

Snap On's low profile sockets are shorter than Koken Zeal, but Snap On did that with a full depth socket and a special ratchet, and Koken did it with a regular ratchet and a partial depth socket. Pretty sure I also measured Snap On low pros with regular ratchets. That was lower than a regular shallow, but I don't think by much, IIRC.

 

[YoshiMoshi3]

Some good ideas.

I would like to expand the spreadsheet to also include universal/swivel sockets. So that when a standard socket won't fit, you can switch over to a universal/swivel, and know which one is the shallowest. But there would defiantly be some other dimensions involved in this consideration. I think it's good to not only see who has the shallowest sockets, or possibly even the least wide (something we can add in). It can also be helpful, if say I already have shallow and deep and in the market for a mid length/semi-deep, I can look through the list for sockets that are closest to right in the middle in terms of length between my shallow and deep sets I already own.

I just added in those cheap Neiko sockets. Is there a good way to manually measure broach? The "shelf" where the fastener bottoms out on some of the sockets I have is often slanted downwards, so you can get different measurements depending on how far towards the center of the socket you go, but I'd imagine the measurement closest to the edge of the walls should be used.

@AEAdam could please you add the Snap On sockets your referring to, to the database? I'm not sure which ones those are. The one's I find seem to be larger then the Zeal. I liked those pictures by the way in the thread you linked.

 

[AEAdam]

Some good ideas.

I would like to expand the spreadsheet to also include universal/swivel sockets. So that when a standard socket won't fit, you can switch over to a universal/swivel, and know which one is the shallowest. But there would defiantly be some other dimensions involved in this consideration. I think it's good to not only see who has the shallowest sockets, or possibly even the least wide (something we can add in). It can also be helpful, if say I already have shallow and deep and in the market for a mid length/semi-deep, I can look through the list for sockets that are closest to right in the middle in terms of length between my shallow and deep sets I already own.

I just added in those cheap Neiko sockets. Is there a good way to manually measure broach? The "shelf" where the fastener bottoms out on some of the sockets I have is often slanted downwards, so you can get different measurements depending on how far towards the center of the socket you go, but I'd imagine the measurement closest to the edge of the walls should be used.

@AEAdam could please you add the Snap On sockets your referring to, to the database? I'm not sure which ones those are. The one's I find seem to be larger then the Zeal. I liked those pictures by the way in the thread you linked.

Original post fixed. Also fixed the link above.

Can I be honest and say this is something thoughtful newbies go through. I did this years back when I was upgrading my socket sets. It isn't strictly necessary. I think any decently made socket will work. When any normal socket won't work, there are other tools or other solutions or bigger problems.

Better, is to make sure you have the basics covered. Basic good quality sockets in a couple depths, lots of ratchets and extensions, and all sizes of bit sockets in a similar variety of depths, comprise what I consider to be a basic automotive socket set. Too many people seem to think 6 and 12 pts make up a "complete automotive socket set". They do not.

My socket drawer (which doesn't include impacts) is what I consider fairly a fairly complete automotive socket set. I have twice as many Allens as I need now, but this (and the triple squares) is the result of working on older Porsches and VWs. There are also some speciality sockets missing, like O2 sockets. But there are axle sockets and spark plug sockets.


Just a few notes:
Top left are my 1/2" 12pts. Below them are 3/8" 6pt deeps that I never use. 6pt metric semi-deeps and shallows are next down. Then red is SAE 3/8". Below that are semi deeps and shallow 6pt 1/4" drive, then SAE 1/4" drive in red. The lonely red Allens standing up at right near the ratchets are the only other SAE sockets in this drawer.

The 3 red sets in the middle are a set of metric shallow swivels (left), then stubby triple squares and stubby torx. Below them is my low pro set (that I never use), then e-torx.

The gray sets, top right, are heavy duty (gold) Torx (super nice), then swivel Torx below them that saved my *** working under the seat of a Land Rover Discovery. Then I have some random long Torx. I think that's a T60, then ratchet rebuild kits.

My Allens are at right. Porsche used to use tons of these. I think all the VAG cars did. Now they are using mostly Torx.

Looking to sell or trade my yellow hard handled ratchets for soft handles or rotos so I've kept them nice. I think there are collectible. Really like the long flex soft handle in my other box and I think I want to try HH rotos. There's a pristine USAG round head there I bought 30 years ago and just recently removed from the box. I should sell that. I use the heck out of the stubbies and my much loved F50CSA spinner handle.

Couldn't really fit my extensions in the picture. I consider them to be luxury items. I have a mixture of regular, wobble plus, lockers, and lock wobbles. We don't talk enough about these basic, but essential tools and what they do for us.

 

[YoshiMoshi3]

Pretty impressive collection. Looks like your got a pretty complete set. It is probably overkill, creating this database. We got about 430 different sockets so far, and hopefully we can expand it to include a lot more, and others can add to it.

Here's what I've gathered so far.

1/4" 6 Point Chrome Shallow Standard
If you want to use a normal (non-pass through ratchet or wrench), Ko-Ken is the shallowest.
If you want to use a box end ratcheting wrench, Boxo is the shallowest

1/4" 6 Point Chrome Shallow Universal
The shortest overall profile for common sizes (10 mm, 12 mm, 14 mm) is Mac Tools, followed by Matco. There is some variation in the smaller sizes.

3/8" 6 Point Impact Shallow Standard
Franklin and Capril Tools are both the shallowest

 

[YoshiMoshi3]

If everybody could please contribute some data, that would be greatly appreciated!

We are now at 734 different sockets. Based on the sockets analyzed so far:

3/8" 6 Point Chrome Shallow Standard
10 mm-14 mm - Snap-On is the shallowest
15mm-19mm Boxo is the shallowest

3/8" 6 Point Chrome Shall Universal
10 mm, 12 mm-14 mm - Nepros is the shallowest
11 mm, 15 mm-19 mm - Matco is the shallowest

 

[Y00PER]

What if some brand sockets, with the same part number, have different sizes? I know I have some craftsman and sk sockets that have different lengths, despite having the same part number. They are different ages/series though

 

[YoshiMoshi3]

What if some brand sockets, with the same part number, have different sizes? I know I have some craftsman and sk sockets that have different lengths, despite having the same part number. They are different ages/series though

That is very odd (keeping same part number), I guess we should add both then? I think for Craftsman we could list them as "Craftsman USA" and the other just as "Craftsman". What are your thoughts? Is SK similar to Craftsman were they switched were they were made? I'm not familiar with them. But if so, maybe we could do something similar

 

[Omnirod]

Why would brand of calipers matter as long as they were calibrated?

I can't see differences between calipers mattering much in this application.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Segue - I get all of my nuts and bolts at a tiny, old fashioned fastener store. Tradesman Fasteners, Redford, MI. Great place, great people !

There "database" is a box of 3x5 cards about 2' long. Fast, efficient and easy to use !!

Follows a rule told to me by a prof in college. "Use a computer to do something ONLY IF IT IS MORE ACCURATE (and accuracy is important) OR FASTER/CHEAPER !"

 

[YoshiMoshi3]

What if some brand sockets, with the same part number, have different sizes? I know I have some craftsman and sk sockets that have different lengths, despite having the same part number. They are different ages/series though

Could you please add in your Craftsman and SK sockets? I wonder how shallow the old Craftsman were?

 

[Y00PER]

Could you please add in your Craftsman and SK sockets? I wonder how shallow the old Craftsman were?

I will as soon as I can

 

[YoshiMoshi3]

BUMP please add data if you can.

 

[jptbay]

Added KTC to the 14mm 1/2" drive table.

KTC, or their more expensive Nepros line, is about the shortest you will find that is not what I would consider a specialty socket (that comes with certain use constraints), like the Koken Zeal.

The KTC socket line is a super value, for a high quality product, IMO.

 

[YoshiMoshi3]

Added KTC to the 14mm 1/2" drive table.

KTC, or their more expensive Nepros line, is about the shortest you will find that is not what I would consider a specialty socket (that comes with certain use constraints), like the Koken Zeal.

The KTC socket line is a super value, for a high quality product, IMO.

Thanks, didn't know it was the shortest!

Sorry I think there's a filter on there. There's an option to remove it, and you will see all the data collected so far, I think about 1100 sockets or so on the table. All different sizes, chrome impact, universal.