Soil against siding - easiest solution?

[keithwvd]

I have a ton of work to do on the house which outranks finishing the garage, but I need the garage to be functional in the winter to complete projects for the house. Before I can even think about insulating the walls I need to figure out how to get the soil below the siding.

I tried digging a few inches thinking it was just up against the lowest siding panel but soon realized there is another buried beneath. I would have to remove soil from the entire yard. Adding another row of cinderblock on top of the foundation is an option but labor intensive and expensive. I'm not sure if digging and filling with gravel for drainage is an option, but it would mean even more stones to shoot with the mower.

What is my best option here?

 

[Dumber than lumber]

You have a big project there. You will definitely want to trench around the foundation to figure out how deep do you need to excavate. You will need to grade the lot away from the structure, or else rain and runoff will continue to head towards the building.
Like I said it's a bit of a job. You may need to put in some kind of French drain with underground pipes etc.
On the other hand, if you do it right you won't have to do it over.

 

[matt_i]

Ideally, the soil should be max height at the height of the driveway/slab, and then slope down from there, so that concrete would be holding the wood up higher. I'm going to guess a detail in the elevation was mistaken, concrete poured and the decision was to cover up the mistake.

Adding another row of block would solve part of the issue in my opinion but introduce a leak path that could cause water to leak between or under the block and down onto the lower concrete floor.

The only bullet proof solution imo is to regrade everything to the spec above.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

That fix will be a regrade of your entire lot. That soil level has to be much lower and you won't know that until you dig it out for reference. The rest of the lot as to be lower than it. You're looking at using at least a skid steer. Perhaps in addition to the grade work, add a french drain to help.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Easiest solution;
Dig down below the siding and remove siding, replace any rot with PT wood, then use peel and stick roofing membrane sealed to the foundation and up enough to be higher than ground level. Replace siding.
Lots of houses have below grade PT foundations, this wouldn't be much different.

Edit; Reusing the siding only applies if it is vinyl or maybe concrete board.

 

[James-W]

From looking at the first picture, it appears the garage is really close to what looks like a fence in the back. If that is the case, then grading the back side of the garage could pose a problem for you.

Basically you need to remove the dirt from around the garage, which means that area will be lower and the water will want to collect right there. So as has been said, you need to grade the entire yard so that water is directed away from the garage. You can do a French Drain system but it would still be of great benefit to grade the entire yard.

The only other option would be to raise the garage and pour a short concrete wall (or concrete block wall) then sit the garage back down on the wall. Problem is, that isn't going to be cheap either so I think the most practical approach is to remove the dirt around the garage and grade the entire lot. If you happen to know someone with a Bobcat they could do this for you and probably not charge you an arm and a leg.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Do you have a "natural" low spot in the yard or a clear path to the street. Excess water has to do somewhere ! Of course you can make a "dry well"

The soil was touching the siding before I dug the trench. You do not have to put gravel on top. If you want grass on top, you are going to have to go lower withe pipe. Line the trench with commercial grade landscape cloth, add a little bit of gravel (to help level/adjust pitch), lay the pipe, cover with gravel, fold in cloth and cover with soil.

You do NOT want the soil touching the siding or above the slab/foundation.

My French Drain and Dry Well Project

 

[Kaizen]

Not the whole yard needed. Dig back five feet and make a two foot retaining wall to hold back the yard. In the five feet or so dig and put in a French drain and drywall if behind you is not able to accept the water


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[keithwvd]

Thanks for all of the input!

The lot I'm on is only about 50' wide on a fairly steep hill and the garage is tucked right in the back corner. The neighbor's property drops 18" to my yard, the yard drops 18" to the driveway and then the driveway drops 36" to the adjacent lot.

Running some quick numbers it seems that any proper regrade effort would be ~10% of the entire property/garage/home value due to all of the retaining wall work involved.

A french drain or small wall right next to the garage may work as I could drain right into the driveway which runs down to the street.

Right now I have no issues with water in the garage (except for a roof issue) so I'm just concerned with the moisture near the bottom causing rot or mold issues if I ever wanted to insulate. Would it be a viable option to dig out and remove siding until above grade, build a form and pour concrete right around existing sill plate and studs, then set up temporary support so I can trim the studs and install a new sill plate?

I'll probably be here for ~5 years and don't plan on completely finishing the garage, just trying to see if I can preserve the stucture and potentially make it more comfortable for winter

 

[ard]

10% of the home value for a simple grade and retain like Kaizen suggested?

Did you not have a home inspections done?

 

[Marctrees]

What is the difference in elevation from your garage floor to the dirt level outside ?

This is very odd.

Marc

 

[keithwvd]

The solution Kaizen recommended would be reasonable, I was referring to taking the entire yard down to below the siding. I'll add a sketch of the property to explain.

One of the first things the inspector mentioned was that the siding was closer to grade than ideal. I didn't realize it was ~8" below, but it wouldn't have had much influence on the decision to purchase. The gargae is a detached 3 car and the price would have been fair with no garage at all.

I'm interested in the roofing membrane approach mentioned as well. Is this a band aid or legitimate solution?

 

[keithwvd]

What is the difference in elevation from your garage floor to the dirt level outside ?

This is very odd.

Marc

It's about 18"

The garage wall is sitting on ~12" of concrete on this side only

 

[Marctrees]

So, the garage floor is above any adjacent dirt level ?

So, there is no garage wood framing below the dirt elevation on any side anywhere ?

You showed a dark inside wood wall, but it just looks funny, not like water wetness damage.

confused.

Marc

 

[keithwvd]

The soil level on the right side of the garage is 12-18" above the garage floor. The right wall was framed on 12" of concrete presumably to account for the higher grade, but it's not quite enough. The left side of the garage where the grade is well below garage floor level the wall is framed right at floor level.

 

[theoldwizard1]

A wall to hold back even just 6" of soil will fail, over time, unless it has a foundation at least twice as deep.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

Any panned out pics of the situation?

 

[keithwvd]

These should give a better idea of the situation:

 

[truckin-on]

Sooner or later, that garage wall will have to be replaced. There is no cheap solution. Choices I see are:

- excavate and build a retaining wall up-hill from the wall, but i doubt there is enough room to the property line, and perhaps not enough slope away from the wall anyway.

- support the wall, cut off the bottom 24", and build the concrete wall up with 3 rows of block, install new plates and sit it back down, then waterproof the outside of the wall and backfill. Your only permanent solution.

- leave it as-is and hope it survives until you sell the house to the next guy...

 

[Bretny]

Thanks for all of the input!

The lot I'm on is only about 50' wide on a fairly steep hill and the garage is tucked right in the back corner. The neighbor's property drops 18" to my yard, the yard drops 18" to the driveway and then the driveway drops 36" to the adjacent lot.

Running some quick numbers it seems that any proper regrade effort would be ~10% of the entire property/garage/home value due to all of the retaining wall work involved.

A french drain or small wall right next to the garage may work as I could drain right into the driveway which runs down to the street.

Right now I have no issues with water in the garage (except for a roof issue) so I'm just concerned with the moisture near the bottom causing rot or mold issues if I ever wanted to insulate. Would it be a viable option to dig out and remove siding until above grade, build a form and pour concrete right around existing sill plate and studs, then set up temporary support so I can trim the studs and install a new sill plate?

I'll probably be here for ~5 years and don't plan on completely finishing the garage, just trying to see if I can preserve the stucture and potentially make it more comfortable for winter

You do have a problem with water in the garage. I can see it in the second pic. Just because you dont have pools of water does not mean an issue dosnt exist. That pic of the back side of the wall is going to be the best looking place once you dig out the dirt from the wall.

If it was me and i wanted to do it as cheap as possible i would dig down and make a small swale then pack gravel in but not as high as the top foundation block.

You could always shore up that wall from the inside, cut a 16in section of the wall out above the block. Add 2 more layers of concrete block, fill the block and lower the wall back onto it. Sounds like alot of work and it will be but once its done..its done and you dont loose any yard space

 

[Kaizen]

After seeing pics definitely a block retaining wall a few feet back. Use landscape blocks. Dig down to bottom of slab level then trench down a whole block height so it’s buried. Had the same thing on my house where the hill was going right to the house. Rented a bobcat and made a patio with four foot walls. Not rocket science just a lot of heavy lifting.



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[Kevin54]

KAIZEN...Love your Goldens!!

 

[Kaizen]

KAIZEN...Love your Goldens!!

Thanks. Both are remarkable family dogs


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[p_mori7]

Seems pretty simple to me...you've got lots of shoveling to do.

The yard used to have a pretty good slope to it (towards the garage) and whoever regraded it used the garage wall as a retaining wall (which was a really dumb idea).

I would fix this by excavating all the fill away from the garage (30" or so...also makes a good walkway)...around the front corner...going down below the slab...install a Fench Drain...back fill with pea gravel till a couple of inches below the top of the slab...have the French Drain dump it runoff onto the driveway...which will then carry it downhill to the street and the storm drains.

If you don't want to build a retaining wall...save the sod, then more shoveling to create a slope from the level gravel back up to the level yard...reinstall the sod...

Otherwise some type of retaining wall will be required to take the place of the garage wall that is doing that job now.

 

[Sureshot]

The one pic shows a grill and junk in front of the one door. What about making an area beside the garage for the grill, garbage bin, etc that is 10-12' wide?
It could have a cheap base. Reusing the timbers you have would supply much of the material needed to hold back the intermediate level. It's tough to spend a lot of money on an aged structure. If it has been like this for a long time I would be inclined to leave it asis and monitor the situation. If/when it rots through cut the studs above that point and make a block or pony wall under it. As far a resale new doors etc would get you the most bang for your buck and if the inside of the garage is finished no one will know the difference. I knew a guy who spent a ton of money on a place doing it "right" and was subsequently pissed when trying to sell the place. At he end of the day it is x square feet on a 50' lot in y neighborhood and as long as an inspector doesn't screw up the sale you are good to go.

 

[FordTruckWench]

If it has been like this for a long time I would be inclined to leave it asis and monitor the situation. If/when it rots through cut the studs above that point and make a block or pony wall under it.

This looks to be some sort of old growth lumber that may be a lot more rot resistant than current stuff. The studs look entirely fine. The only question is the condition of the outside of the siding.

Suspect this started out graded just fine. Over time, organic debris piled up and dirt migrated down against the wall.

 

[Vintage Veloce]

2 solutions:
- a retaining wall just outside your garage walls with a drainage area between the garage and the wall.
- raise the garage 2 feet and increase the height of the stem walls. Likely more expensive, but you end up with more height inside the garage... better for a lift someday if you want that. You would end up needing taller garage doors. If you get water on the garage floor now, you probably still will, you could add some drainage inside the garage.

 

[3onthetree]

I wouldn't recommend the sticky membrane since it can't be vacuum sealed to the 12" concrete wall. Water wicks.

Just dig down to expose 6" of concrete and wide enough for a leaf rake. Use the dirt to create a swale (a "V") to direct water from the hill to the driveway (if there's a lot of runoff you would need a french drain on the backside of the new retaining wall though). By my calcs, the wall would vary from 6-12" high so there's no need for backhoes and bobcats.

I've had this scenario, and dug out about 8" or so to expose the foundation. I used the spoils to raise the yard to slope it away from the house. Ended up about 10-12" high kneewall. Used 4x4s and stakes as a cheap temporary solution, but obviously retaining blocks are better.

 

[Orionrising]

Cheapest retaining wall would be concrete waste blocks. Rent a 5 ton or bigger mini excavator, order 4-5 six foot blocks, excavate install, get a couple yards of gravel. Should cost 2k on the very high end.

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