I'm fixing' to throw a 7kw Grid-tied system up on the shop roof. 24, 60 cell Heliene collectors (made in Montana) and Enphase micro inverters. Our local code requires 3' walkway all the way around the array. The shop is a few points W of S and 8/12 pitch. I have a bit of winter partial shade due to the neighborhood 100' trees, but the sizing should offset the electric bill, and with PG&E in bankruptcy the bills are only going one way. Anyone do this? How has it worked out?
Solar on the shop
- Thread starter Jackfre
- Start date
SkeeterZX200
Well-known member
I have a 9.6kw grid tied system. I have only had it for 6 months, so it is up in the air what the ROI is.
Mike Folks
Well-known member
Any possible Hail damage? Some collectors are resistant to a point,then the home insurance might take over the replacement costs...
SkeeterZX200
Well-known member
My panels are rated for 2" hail.
99LeCouch
Well-known member
Not in CA. However, I have had a 3.5 kW system installed for 20 months now. 10 LG NeOn R 350 watt panels with a SolarEdge inverter/panel optimizers. The optimizers help with snow cover or the partial shade some panels get in the morning. Micro inverters will do the same thing.
No issues, it's up there working. Our electric bill is just the meter fee in the summer, and it helps offset heating costs during the winter.
No issues, it's up there working. Our electric bill is just the meter fee in the summer, and it helps offset heating costs during the winter.
SkeeterZX200
Well-known member
Here is a link to my system and my production/consumption.
https://monitoringpublic.solaredge....osk?guid=cc0e4ebd-e330-47ff-a8ae-8086c92b20df
https://monitoringpublic.solaredge....osk?guid=cc0e4ebd-e330-47ff-a8ae-8086c92b20df
I have a 6kW system on my house. It's nice running two A/Cs all summer and not having much of an electric bill. My only regret is that there wasn't enough roof space for more panels. 6kW solar doesn't quite match the 6kW electric boiler in the winter.
Mike Folks
Well-known member
Fiance and I are house shopping in Springfield Mo.with an eye on Solar, for either hot water or batteries and inverter uses.
dcg9381
Well-known member
What's your cost on this system?
8/12 pitch is 33.69°
What's your optimum fixed pitch for your location?
The 100' trees are the biggest detractor - depending on how much coverage they provide when.. You'll have to gauge that.
I have a 6KW system, 1/12 pitch, 33 degrees is actual optimum. I'm losing due to not tilting mine and probably max out at 5.7KW production with new panels.
As long as you're within 30 degrees of 180 south, there isn't a lot of difference.
My system ran about $8.5k - that's self installed - all in. I'd say, on average, it offsets about $60/mo here (note, I didn't indicate KWh) - so my bills are basically neutral unless we get heavy clouds or I am under high HVAC/heat loads.. As we "net meter" - meaning I get paid wholesale on overproduction and dollar for dollar on consumption - I target to slightly under-produce for best pay back.
I've installed 3 or 4 systems, never has one of them had a single problem. They're all standard inverter - not micro inverter... We are in a heavy hail damage state and panels will take a substantial beating. Car windshields crack before most solar panels will.
My system ran $11.2k. The orientation and pitch are ideal for my location there are only a couple obstructing trees. I am now working on the permit and utility agreement. I was in the solar business back in the 70’s-mid-80’s.
brianh
Well-known member
I have a 9kw system on my shop roof and a 1kw ground mount the 9 kw was installed in July 2014 so far has produced 43000 kw hours we have no electric bill but for Dec and Jan and those are still suplimented.
I have 3kw of panels to add this spring, should be 100 percent then. Our rate in NY is effectively 22 cents a kw after all taxes and fees so payback is under 10 years.
I have 3kw of panels to add this spring, should be 100 percent then. Our rate in NY is effectively 22 cents a kw after all taxes and fees so payback is under 10 years.
dcg9381
Well-known member
Gonna say, that's a darn good deal on a system.. You know all the junk that I posted.
I'm happy with my system - payback, maybe in 10 years, assuming "flat" prices (which probably is conservative).
Looking at output from my 6KW system last year, from 5/2019-12/2019 (It went live 5/2019) - I produced 6.01 MWh. 20 panels total. Non-optimal tilt. No shade. Optimal compass orientation.
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I've been researching it again. So far payback isn't good enough for. My shop roof is east of south, have a few trees but they can go away pretty easily and I burn wood so I have a use for it. I'm planning on another mini split in my house so to me it makes sense to go solar. Priced DIY ground mount, kit from some company, even doing the install myself, no go. Smaller array on roof, is closer but not sure I want it on roof. Doubt it would pay off before I'm dead
Dagny
Well-known member
What are the current tax deductions.
feds 26%
I would have preferred a ground mount, but was unwilling to give up the space and anyplace I could have put it would have brought the shading into play even more. Cleaning the collectors on an 8/12 pitch should be fun in a couple years, but my grandson should be able by then
I'm currently working on the permit and getting co-ordinated with PG&E on the connection method. I am also installing a Generac as we are expected to have more shut-offs this year and while that doesn't exactly complicate the connection, I do have to be certain I'm not back feeding in one direction or another.
I'm currently working on the permit and getting co-ordinated with PG&E on the connection method. I am also installing a Generac as we are expected to have more shut-offs this year and while that doesn't exactly complicate the connection, I do have to be certain I'm not back feeding in one direction or another.Speaking of back feeding the grid, what happens if there is an outage of the grid; does the solar system have some kind of an automatic transfer switch to prevent a safety hazard to the lineman? Since this thread is about solar, I'm curious to hear more of the nuts and bolts of how each system is employed and operates and how you've chosen one type of system vs. another.
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
brianh
Well-known member
Yes the inverter shuts down, it needs feedback from the power line to turn on.
My ground mounted system is grid tied and charges some deep cycle batteries for when the power goes out, it is only enough to run the lights and computers and stereo. We have had the power out for a week at times here so those conveniences are nice to have without running a howling generator all day.
Some new that I have read about in this area (Oregon) is that some sections of the 'grid' are full of the solar input. The next system in that area is going to have to foot the bill to upgrade the power company's system to handle more input from the solar systems. So pay attention to how much headroom the poser company has to add your system. Another I read about here is that some of the power providers only pay for what you put in on a monthly basis. In the past they were averaging it out over a year so the lean winter months would be paid for by the fat summer months. So do your due diligence and know what is the requirements are today, as they are changing all the time.
lg
no neat sig line
lg
no neat sig line
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
What I call "true" micro inverters, (limited to one 96 cell panel and physically plug into a standard wall outlet) pay back in as little as 3-5 years. The big win is, one inverter, no "combiners", no disconnect (the plug is the disconnect), no separate meter. This cuts installation costs !
You can install a pair of these, one on each leg. Still very limited in the amount of power you will get.
Basics of Solar Microinverters
You can install a pair of these, one on each leg. Still very limited in the amount of power you will get.
Basics of Solar Microinverters
dcg9381
Well-known member
I'm curious how you're handling this. I'm assuming the Generac is auto-start?
In my case, I isolate the generator from the PV solar system so it can't backfeed.
I am working on it but cannot give you a definitive answer at this time. I am not running the generator on auto start. I will have manual operation. It doesn’t matter that I am going auto or manual as back feeding must be prevented. There are a number of wiring options but I do not yet know what Is best. The beat goes on.System update: In these trying times we need a bit of wry humor and patience is sort of its own reward. Prior to buying the system I went to the Building Dept and checked on requirements. All cool. I buy the system and it all arrived in good order. Go to the building dept for the permits and the inspector goes directly to the collector spec sheet, Certification Section. This took about 45 seconds from sitting down. "You do not have Class I fire on this collector." He then jumps onto the companies web site and every collector they make has Class I, just not the one I had 1148# of sitting in the shop. The inspector was doing his job well. I mean this is the foothills of the Sierra. I call the system distributor. "Houston we have a problem." I am told that using the Ironridge mounting system extends class I to all collectors. Really? I was on an NFPA Committee for 15 yrs and dealt with UL, etc for years. My question then was, "Can you please explain to me how one manuf gets to extend a certification to another?" Again, considering where I live I asked the Distributor who is based in Shasta, CA the question. "Ok, you are in Shasta and I'm in Nevada City. What town used to be about mid-way between us?" He thinks about it a moment and goes, "Ah, Paradise, I see where you are going with this." I then tell him to get me an answer, pronto. A few days go by and the manuf is not giving a direct answer so I fire off a love note to them. it was a beauty. That was on a Friday. The following Wed I get a call from the factory guy on the west coast. I was a Manuf Rep for 35 yrs and knew where this was going. "Can I talk to the Inspector?" I told him that I would be happy to facilitate such a discussion as long as he could tell me my collectors had Class I. Now they had forwarded an Intertek test report that said if the collector had this backing plate or that backing plate the unit has Class I. If it has this or that backing plate it does not. My question to him then is, "Does my collector have CI?" He responds, "No, it does not." I said, "Okay, then these are going back."
This last Friday a truck pulled up with a pallet of Class I rated collectors and the others went back on the truck. Great! Three weeks later I am now ready to go with permit in hand. The only problem is I have lost my crew. Everyone is rightly staying home, as am I. The weather has been unsettled recently so I lost that window to get the racking and collectors mounted. Due to snow loads I have to have mounts every two feet so I have 84 holes/flashings to punch into a perfectly good 8/12 roof. I will do those 84 myself beginning Wed if the weather settles as it is supposed to. I'll have to tie off as the pitch is to great, but I used to do a lot of climbing so that isn't a problem. Everyone is saying I shouldn't be on the roof. I know they are wrong. What I shouldn't do is fall off the roof. At this point, slow and steady wins the race. I have to say that the equipment supplier has been excellent here and that has been a great comfort in dealing with this. Companies are judged not only by how they handle their day to day business, but in how they handle problems, and I have nothing but good things to say about them. Onward, through the fog!
This last Friday a truck pulled up with a pallet of Class I rated collectors and the others went back on the truck. Great! Three weeks later I am now ready to go with permit in hand. The only problem is I have lost my crew. Everyone is rightly staying home, as am I. The weather has been unsettled recently so I lost that window to get the racking and collectors mounted. Due to snow loads I have to have mounts every two feet so I have 84 holes/flashings to punch into a perfectly good 8/12 roof. I will do those 84 myself beginning Wed if the weather settles as it is supposed to. I'll have to tie off as the pitch is to great, but I used to do a lot of climbing so that isn't a problem. Everyone is saying I shouldn't be on the roof. I know they are wrong. What I shouldn't do is fall off the roof. At this point, slow and steady wins the race. I have to say that the equipment supplier has been excellent here and that has been a great comfort in dealing with this. Companies are judged not only by how they handle their day to day business, but in how they handle problems, and I have nothing but good things to say about them. Onward, through the fog!
nadogail
Well-known member
Can you connect an inverter, fed by your deep cycle batteries, that can synch with the inverter normally fed by the grid?
I am making the wild assumption that you will be disconnected from the grid before you start your small inverter that will excite the big inverter fed by the panel array.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Grid tie doesn't work if there is no grid to tie to !
LS6 Tommy
Well-known member
You PAID for it?
Tommy
Tommy
olds70supreme
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- Joined
- Mar 7, 2008
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- 694
For those who are in the process or have already self-installed, where are you sourcing your equipment from? Are you typically working w/ a vendor to source most of the components as a system, or are you picking and choosing from multiple vendors? Where are you sourcing parts from?
MileHighRover
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I bought my package from Wholesale Solar. I had a couple pro companies come out for quotes a couple years ago and had an idea of sizing, but went through the process with them as well. They have packages for grid tied as well as off-grid. For info on components look at Enphase for the micros and wiring and controller, Ironridge for the racking. I'm using Canadian Solar collectors.
dcg9381
Well-known member
I haven't seen this done. And inverter sync can be very tricky (try it daisy chained UPS). Better, IMHO, buy an inverter designed to power up a dedicated circuit when the grid goes down.. Apparently a few exist.
I've emailed back and forth with them, still not quick enough payback for me. I want a ground mount, price is pretty much the same either way except for the ground mount costs. I was quoted on Enphase micros also. I wish I had the money for it. Be a fun project
LS6 Tommy
Well-known member
AHH! That makes all the difference in the world!
Anyone that ever lays a penny out of their own pocket to go with a company is NUTS.Tommy
LS6 Tommy
Well-known member
I think I may not have made my thoughts clear enough. All I meant was not to use one of those solar companies that charge you to come in and put stuff on your roof in exchange for a crappy (or almost non existent) ROI, a ruined roof and no one to turn to a few years down the road when the roof leaks. The good companies "rent" space from you, cover everything in exchange for the use of that space and you get the power/payback as a perk. I didn't mean to say you were nuts just because you payed into a solar energy system.
Tommy
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Good, thank you for the clarification. I agree that the "lease" deals stink. My daughter is realtor and having someone, as you say, rent the space, installing a system on the property does little more than encumber the property at the time of sale and banks absolutely do not like it.
LS6 Tommy
Well-known member
I never had to think about it from that point of view, all the properties I dealt with were commercial or public schools. Purely from a pragmatic point of view, having someone else completely install it, own it, maintain it and your roof/site was the best option if you weren't buying, installing and maintaining it all on your own to privately sell back to the grid.
Tommy
dcg9381
Well-known member
I used "Mr. Solar" - I've probably bought 3-4 complete systems from him. They do a pretty good job of lining it all up and making sure it's compatible, including the rail systems.
Some design is required - you need to know how many of these you can mount in a "row" and as the install rails come in per-deterimed lengths, you can't do this very haphazardly without running up costs on the mounting hardware.
Note, this vendor can't cover all the deviations of local code - like arrestors and if "rapid shutdown" is allowed or if you still need physical disconnects.
The inverter manufacturers, I never had an issue getting my support Q/A answered, even questions involving residential wiring.
EricVonHa
Well-known member
That's a good Solar MicroInverter 101 video.
He makes it sound like you can plug the micro inverter right into your household power.