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Solar powered fueling station

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Crazy_Pilot

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Toronto, Ontario
Short version: Can a solar battery tender and 12V battery be used to run a 12V fuel transfer pump? For say 30 gallons at a time, once a day.

Long version:

My flying club has a 500-gallon tank with a manual crank pump that we use to refuel our planes. It works, but when you've got an airplane with 50 gallon tanks that's a decent workout and a good chunk of time to be swinging a handle. That plus the fact that if you're working alone you have to frequently go back and forth from the pump to the plane to see how much fuel you've put in, or risk overflowing and spilling fuel all over the plane.

A powered pump would make life not only easier but safer as well. The problem is we don't have access to electrical power where the fuel tank is located. My current idea is to use a 12V transfer pump that is typically used in pickup bed tanks, powered by a 12V battery and maintained by a solar battery tender.

Pump: http://www.fillrite.com/index.cfm/products/productdetail/?p=111&ps=80

Battery tender: http://www.batterytender.com/Solar/15-Watt-Solar-Tender-Charger-With-Built-in-Controller.html

The tender and battery would be mounted in a frame and a trenched cable run from the power station to the fuel tank. I would use a few patio stones in the base of the frame to weigh it down and keep and winds from blowing it over. The battery would live in a box above that with solid sides and top and a mesh base (one side hinged for access), and above that would be the solar panel on a tilt adjustable frame. See the attached picture for a basic idea.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or input from people more experienced that me. I think it should work but I've never put something like this together before so I'm a bit in the dark.
 

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Jess

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A good solar supplier could help with the calculations that you need to determine how much charge capacity you will need. Questions like how big a battery, what does the pump draw when running for a 50gal fill, how many fills maximum in a day, the annual average sunlight hours and so on make it a bit difficult to offer a definitive answer here. I think that even with a large deep cycle battery, the 15amp panel will be too small. What you are suggesting has been done but most remote fueling is diesel and done with gas pumps or using an electric pump run from the vehicles power. It will be interesting to see what you come up with. Be prepared, kit may not be cheap though...
 
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Daedalus

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A lot of unknowns/assumptions, but my guess is it would work. I think the flow rate sounds a little optimistic @ 20gpm. Say it takes 3 minutes to move 30 gallons. It's rated at 1/4HP, which we'll round to 200 watts. @ 12V, 200 watts is 17A...probably OK as a discharge rate for 3 minutes on a 12V battery. Total power draw per day is 200/20 = 10w*h.

The charger is the tricky one. Totally depends on your climate, how much sun you get, angle, etc. It's rated to a nominal current of 830mA @ 12V, but that's probably when pointed directly at the sun (in summer or winter?). Let's assume you get that current for 3 hours a day. P = .83*12 = 10W. E = 30w*h per day, a healthy margin to the needed 10w*h.

So the numbers work, but I'm not sure I buy it that 200W can move 30gpm. Give it a shot, and worst case, you'll have to disconnect the battery every now and then to give it a good charge overnight back near a power outlet.
 
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SteveCh

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That looks like a nice pump. It will likely take a pretty hefty battery[ies] to operate it. The charger will need to be able to fully recharge the battery each day or you'll risk a low-lifetime battery. Plus, I see you are in an area where the temp. gets cold. Partially-discharged lead-acid batteries can suffer the electrolyte freezing, and that will be death for the battery. I expect you know this, living there.

Can you run the pump off a vehicle? I realize this would be a hassle, having to take a car or pickup or whatever out there to run the pump, then perhaps having to move the car back to parking when the plane is filled. Most vehicles are 12 volt. Our daily drivers, I mean.

If using a solar charger, no charge, or very minimal, on cloudy days, too. You want that battery charged up each time it's used, or by the end of each day. I have a home with PV electrical and also an airplane, so I am on your side. One of the parameters which PV homeowners worry over is having a large-enough PV array to fully recharge their battery bank each day, if possible. Of course, a day or two or ten of cloudy weather means that bank cannot be recharged for a while. Thus one must size the battery[ies] to have enough capacity to be used for their purposes and not be left too very much discharged, percentage-wise, until they can be topped off.

There are those rechargeable power-packs that are used for starting vehicles with low batteries. I have heard tell that some are beefy enough to start big diesel rigs and equipment. Something like that might also be an option; you'd have to have a handy way to plug the pack in and recharge somewhere, preferably at the airport if more than one pilot needs to fuel more than one plane a day. I have no personal experience with those power-packs, so I am just thinking "out loud" here.
 
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kd3pc

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You will need at least a 100watt panel or two and a pair of deep cycle marine batteries, MPPT controller, with a panel mount that will let the panel see the sun as much of the day, and season as possible. Budget would likely be in the $1000 and up range for parts and install.

Keep in mind that the ATAC or whomever has control of the airport, will have a slew of regs and conditions that may apply and that static control/grounding will be a requirement as well.
 
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manwithtools

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Spend the money to supply AC to the pump station. Unless the nearest power is a quarter a mile away it will be cheaper in the long run than solar and batteries. The first time the third guy in line wants to fuel up and the batteries are depleted the novelty of solar will go bye-bye.

If you do chose solar, be sure to have the manual pump as a backup. I wish it all worked from an efficiency and economic standpoint, but we are just not there yet. I don't think the Canadian government still offers attractive incentives for solar do they? They used to; before the money ran out just as it did here in the US.
 
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mike93lx

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I can't offer any help with the solar setup, but conaidering all of the trouble involved in dealing with the layout, setup and maintenance, why not a small generator instead, like un eu2000?
 
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egnorant

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Raise the tank for gravity feed. Or have the solar fill a 30 gallon tank, when it can, that will gravity feed.

Bruce
 
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HOTFR8

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LS6 Tommy said:
The pump draws 13A. You'll kill a single battery pretty darn quick...

Tommy
Click to expand...

Not if the engine is running and that would depend on fill time. Many of those Diesel fuel transfer pumps are pretty good so it would I guess be similar.

mike93lx said:
I was suggesting a 120VAC pump. Not using the generator to charge the batteries
Click to expand...

Still a more expensive option than using the vehicle battery.
 
W

walrus

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LS6 Tommy said:
The pump draws 13A. You'll kill a single battery pretty darn quick...

Tommy
Click to expand...
It would but using a vehicle would solve that. Loggers, Construction guys use these pumps all the time, mounted in a tank in the back of pick up or mounted in a skid tank out in the woods in a loggers case.
 
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Superbec

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13 A / hour , even a motorcycle battery can do that for a few minutes a day with enough solar charging.

let's say 10 minutes => 13/6= 2.16A, let's say 3A draw evry fuel-up

you will need a battery that's ~10x larger so no deep discharge occurs and you have minimum voltage drops , so minimum 30Ah battery , let's make that 2.5x cause 75Ah batteries are available cheap and a 200w solar will output too much amps at full load for a small battery. 200wp = peak 16,6Ah, but it's less because it will charge at 13.8V, let's say 14Ah, so you actually need only half hour of sun daily to cover the pump + self discharge.

From experience I can tell you the solar panels will charge even with heavy clouds or at least cover the self discharge.

I have a solar system in my van for about 2-3 years, 2 batteries (200Ah total), 1x 120 wp panel. I have a tire changer on 220v inverter drawing ~300A , hydraulic unit draw 200A and compressor 45A max.. It works flawless

200wp panel with a 12v mpp charge costs around 200$
a good 75-100Ah battery around 100$
some enclosure weatherproof .. 100$ ???

The only thing to keep in mind is batteries can freeze in very cold temps
 
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mike93lx

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HOTFR8 said:
Still a more expensive option than using the vehicle battery.
Click to expand...

OP wasn't looking for the cheapest option, just suggestions.

I think a small generator and a 120VAC pump would be way less hassle than a solar setup with batteries, a charge controller and a 12v pump, but that is just my opinion.

Considering it is at an airport where I imagine that most pilots are extremely diligent about maintenance, I expect that keeping the generator in good working order would not be a problem either.
 
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HOTFR8

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mike93lx said:
OP wasn't looking for the cheapest option, just suggestions.

I think a small generator and a 120VAC pump would be way less hassle than a solar setup with batteries, a charge controller and a 12v pump, but that is just my opinion.

Considering it is at an airport where I imagine that most pilots are extremely diligent about maintenance, I expect that keeping the generator in good working order would not be a problem either.
Click to expand...

Fair comment as it does say no power at the fuel tank. So on that the Gen Set would work. Although the 12 volt option looks to be his better option. If many more use the fuel then the Gen Set would be the next best option. :thumbup:
 
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ishiboo

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LS6 Tommy said:
The pump draws 13A. You'll kill a single battery pretty darn quick...

Tommy
Click to expand...

It's 13 amps, yes. But it's also a 20 GPM pump and he plans on 30 gallons once a day.

That's 30 gallons/20 gpm = 1.5 minutes of runtime per day, let's say 3 minutes to be safe... so it runs for one twentieth of an hour each day. So 13 amps * (1/20) = .65AH.

A group 27 battery will store about 115 amp hours, so at a 50% maximum discharge you have about 57ah of usable capacity. 57 / .65 = 87. You would have about 87 days usage from that battery. At that rate, it's far cheaper to have 2-3 batteries and simply bring them home and swap them out once every month or two, than it would be to have a solar setup. But let's figure that out.

.65 ah * 12.4v = a hair over 8 watts. Generously figure another 10-15 watts to maintain the battery and you've got about a 23 watt draw you need for a solar panel to provide. Now, picking a solar panel is not as simple as picking a wattage... you have to figure the weather among other things. But it's a VERY minimal requirement.

I would figure about a 100W kit to be on the safe side like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BFCNFRM/?tag=atomicindus08-20
 
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TractorJeff

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I've been waiting for someone to come along and be realistic on pump consumption. I belong to a Gas and Steam club. Every year the local fuel supplier brings a 500 gallon tank with a 12 volt electric pump. In 3 days it will pump 750 to 1000 gallons on one 12v automotive battery as almost every tractor shows up with an empty fuel tank and I am sure they all go home with full tanks!
It is what it is fellas!
 
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Dick in Wisconsin

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TractorJeff said:
I've been waiting for someone to come along and be realistic on pump consumption. I belong to a Gas and Steam club. Every year the local fuel supplier brings a 500 gallon tank with a 12 volt electric pump. In 3 days it will pump 750 to 1000 gallons on one 12v automotive battery as almost every tractor shows up with an empty fuel tank and I am sure they all go home with full tanks!
It is what it is fellas!
Click to expand...

I wondered how much electricity the pump would actually take myself.

We have 5000# SuperWinch in the race trailer. I use it to pull the race car up into the trailer. I've never timed it, but it takes the winch three to five minutes to pull the can in. I also usually use the winch motor to unwind the winch. All this is powered by single deep cycle Group 27 or 24 (can't remember what it is) battery in the trailer. Winch must take LOTS of juice because it has a HUGE battery cable to the battery.

I think the OP should buy the pump and try hooking it up to his vehicle using a plug like this:

http://www.zoro.com/anderson-power-...gclid=CIrd_eDtsckCFdgKgQodnqIEjg&gclsrc=aw.ds

Even if the pump draws lots of juice, leaving the vehicle running should keep enough juice going back into the battery that the fuel pump won't drain his battery completely.

First thing he does when he gets to the plane is to fuel it with his vehicle running. Then preflight the airplane. Last thing he does before boarding the aircraft is shut the car off and lock it up. Battery charged. If this works, all the club members can wire their cars with plug like this an leave it under the hood. Problem solved.
 
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LS6 Tommy

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HOTFR8 said:
Not if the engine is running and that would depend on fill time. Many of those Diesel fuel transfer pumps are pretty good so it would I guess be similar.



Still a more expensive option than using the vehicle battery.
Click to expand...

ishiboo said:
It's 13 amps, yes. But it's also a 20 GPM pump and he plans on 30 gallons once a day.

That's 30 gallons/20 gpm = 1.5 minutes of runtime per day, let's say 3 minutes to be safe... so it runs for one twentieth of an hour each day. So 13 amps * (1/20) = .65AH.

A group 27 battery will store about 115 amp hours, so at a 50% maximum discharge you have about 57ah of usable capacity. 57 / .65 = 87. You would have about 87 days usage from that battery. At that rate, it's far cheaper to have 2-3 batteries and simply bring them home and swap them out once every month or two, than it would be to have a solar setup. But let's figure that out.

.65 ah * 12.4v = a hair over 8 watts. Generously figure another 10-15 watts to maintain the battery and you've got about a 23 watt draw you need for a solar panel to provide. Now, picking a solar panel is not as simple as picking a wattage... you have to figure the weather among other things. But it's a VERY minimal requirement.

I would figure about a 100W kit to be on the safe side like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BFCNFRM/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Click to expand...


Awww, don't try to ruin my off kilter logic with all that fancy maff...:lol_hitti

Tommy
 
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HOTFR8

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ishiboo

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I personally would not recommend connecting a fuel pump or anything else to the aircrafts electrical system. The only electrical connection should be a ground.
 
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