Solar powered garage?

[Sr. WiNdTeCh]

Does anybody else run solar in there house for anything?








If you keep click on the picture you can go to image shack and then click again to really zoom in.

You will notice there is more to it than just a solar panel and batteries...

 

[dahur]

Yup. Here's my set up. 3.6KW takes care of my house, garage, workshop, everything. 16 225w panels, plus16 Enphase micro-inverters.

 

[Garage5.9]

More info on the batterys and inverteer setup

 

[Lippyp]

I've just got a small solar powered LED light in my woodshed and a little 2W panel to trickle charge my mower battery.

 

[HOTFR8]

My whole property is Solar. The main system also feeds back to the grid so I export power on good days. I have a smaller system that runs my office. If you search you will find a few topics on Solar on this forum.

 

[brettwind102]

the 3.6kw looks like the one at the school near mean but i think they school is 20 of them. There nice but look expensive there are rebates i think for them. Sr wind how many watts is yours

 

[theoldwizard1]

More info on the batterys and inverteer setup

Just looking at the pictures, it appear the batteries are just deep discharge marine batteries, wired in series and parallel for "24V" output.

The inverter looks like a Xantrex PROsine.

 

[92GreenYJ]

We just bought our first home and it has a solar water heater. Panel for that is on the garage roof. Main house roof has a full solar system covering almost the entire roof. Can't comment on the systems too much as of yet as we are barely into the place (still doing flooring and paint prior to move in)

 

[where2]

This is a timely thread, I actually received my State of Florida PV system design certification approval yesterday (FSEC certification). (designed 100% by me, submitted to the state by me, meets NEC 2011 requirements, and I am not an electrical contractor) 4 weeks until I start install on my 4400W grid-tied system. It is designed around twenty 220W panels, and twenty Enphase M215 inverters. It should make a substantial dent in my current power bill for my all electric house. After my system is up and running, I may design a second array for the corner of my yard, or I may take my spare panels and inverters and go mount them at a friend's house somewhere...

 

[got2boostit2]

Just came back from a friends house that he wired for solar and a 56" wind turbine. Neat setup. He is also building and selling portable solar generator setups.

 

[Teken]

Yup. Here's my set up. 3.6KW takes care of my house, garage, workshop, everything. 16 225w panels, plus16 Enphase micro-inverters.

Every time I see that picture its like a *********! One day I shall be there, one day!

Teken . . .

 

[Big-Foot]

Nice... It is in my plans as well.. Some day...

 

[brettwind102]

where sr wind tech guy go

 

[mrgm]

I want solar so bad... just that I have no clue where to start looking and what the cost per kw should be

 

[Teken]

I want solar so bad... just that I have no clue where to start looking and what the cost per kw should be

1. How much do you want to spend?

2. How much do you pay for electricity?

3. How much power do you want to generate / offset?

4. Does ROI (Return On Investment) matter to you?

5. How many solar hours are in your region / area / season?

6. Do you want a grid tied, off grid system/

7. Do you want a turn key solar array. Or a DIY system?

8. Is your property orientated to obtain the best solar arrays? If not are you willing to place this solar array on the ground, on a pole, on the roof?

9. Does your POCO, State, offer incentives?

10. If you live in the USA be aware that the federal incentive program may be nearing its end so you better get on the boat.

11. Do you want to have the ability to power your home while the grid goes down? If so you will need a hybrid system to allow you to store the energy collected. Once the batteries are full the remaining power will be diverted and sold back to the POCO.

12. Do you care if you have batteries that you will have to maintain them? The costs for the batteries can costs thousands of dollars and they all wear out.

Teken . . .

 

[jmauld]

10. If you live in the USA be aware that the federal incentive program may be nearing its end so you better get on the boat.



Teken . . .

That's good news. I've been looking at solar systems for a long time, and when the government started offering an incentive, the price of solar systems sky rocketed. It will be interesting to see if prices drop back down to reasonable rates.

 

[where2]

I want solar so bad... just that I have no clue where to start looking and what the cost per kw should be

The "Where2: How-To DIY solar guide" is coming... I've been printing out my permit paperwork tonight to submit in the morning. Ran the printer out of ink printing two copies of everything (~60 pages per set, in color).

 

[theoldwizard1]

...
4. Does ROI (Return On Investment) matter to you?

5. How many solar hours are in your region / area / season?

6. Do you want a grid tied, off grid system/

These should probably be 1, 2, 3 !

If ROI is important, it rules out most (inhabited) parts of the US.

 

[Teken]

These should probably be 1, 2, 3 !

If ROI is important, it rules out most (inhabited) parts of the US.

This is just a hobby! Men don't have to make sense, or have solid reasons for doing anything!

We use the whole numbers game to back ourselves up to the wife / GF!

Teken . . .

 

[2manytoyz]

I'm in hurricane prone FL. Last major outage was 18 days here. After that, I invested in solar panels. Small scale setup so far. About a 1000W array, and 900 AH of batteries. I have a couple of 1800W inverters. These will run any of my tools in the garage.

This setup will also power my critical loads during an extended power outage. Two fridges, lights, TV, cable box, fan, computer, security system, etc.

A step by step of how I got started is at this link: http://2manytoyz.com/solarphase1.html

 

[Teken]

You picked some decent gear for your install. How much do you have invested in this?

Teken . . .

 

[2manytoyz]

I don't have a running total, probably cry if I did. Prices have also come down since I bought my first components.

A 140W Kyocera panel is ~$250.
A Xantrex Prowatt SW2000 inverter ~$325
Each 6V 220AH battery (I have 8) are ~$80 each
Each charge controller is ~$175
Xantrex Linkpro ~$240
30A transfer switch ~$60
Fuses, wire, connectors, switches, relays, yada yada, maybe $1k or so

I have thousands into my setup, and NOT looking to make money back. I will be putting some items, such as house lighting, on this setup exclusively. When the power goes out, my lights never will. I had it setup at my last house this way, and still am working on getting the system setup at the new house.

Here's how it worked at my last place.

 

[Teken]

I don't have a running total, probably cry if I did. Prices have also come down since I bought my first components.

A 140W Kyocera panel is ~$250.
A Xantrex Prowatt SW2000 inverter ~$325
Each 6V 220AH battery (I have 8) are ~$80 each
Each charge controller is ~$175
Xantrex Linkpro ~$240
30A transfer switch ~$60
Fuses, wire, connectors, switches, relays, yada yada, maybe $1k or so

I have thousands into my setup, and NOT looking to make money back. I will be putting some items, such as house lighting, on this setup exclusively. When the power goes out, my lights never will. I had it setup at my last house this way, and still am working on getting the system setup at the new house.

Here's how it worked at my last place.

I really enjoyed your build thread you created. Also, I am of like mind with respect to the solar ROI.

I do try to balance what I am spending opposed to what I get. But, I am in it for the long haul and in Canada there is no such things as rebates etc from the Government like you guys do.

So, with that in my mind I simply build the best I can within the budget I can and enjoy the daily savings that God shines down each day!

Teken . . .

 

[theoldwizard1]

I'm in hurricane prone FL. Last major outage was 18 days here. After that, I invested in solar panels.

I would be curious to see how well the panels hold up against high wind and debris flying around !

 

[2manytoyz]

I would be curious to see how well the panels hold up against high wind and debris flying around !

According to what I've read... "Solar panels are rated for hail impact which is roughly the impact of a 1" hail ball striking the panel at 52 mph".

Most of the hurricanes and tropical storms here tend to hit from the East since we are 10 minutes from the beach. My panels are on the South facing roof. They shouldn't be directly in the path of flying debris.

As for wind, that's another story. I'm bolting these right into the rafters, and using beefy hardware to hold it all in place. Also keeping as low a profile as I can get away with. These should still be hanging on when the rest of the roof goes!

And if they do get damaged after a storm, plan B is my Yamaha EF2400iS generator: http://www.2manytoyz.com/yamaha2400.html At 1/4 load, it sips fuel, using only 4.5 gallons of fuel per day. Most conventional generators run at a fixed speed, and use 1.0 to 1.5 gallons per hour (24 - 36 gallons per day). And by using a combination of the battery bank, and periodic running of the generator & a 75A Iota battery charger, I can greatly extend my fuel.

 

[2manytoyz]

I really enjoyed your build thread you created. Also, I am of like mind with respect to the solar ROI.

I do try to balance what I am spending opposed to what I get. But, I am in it for the long haul and in Canada there is no such things as rebates etc from the Government like you guys do.

So, with that in my mind I simply build the best I can within the budget I can and enjoy the daily savings that God shines down each day!

Teken . . .

Thanks. Many of the rebates here require a professional installation, inspections, permits, etc. The rebates also tend to go very quickly. I did get a tax break for the equipment when it was first purchased, so that did help.

The peace of mind is priceless. A few years ago, hurricane season was approaching once again. The wife said "shouldn't we buy batteries?" I said for what. She said "for flashlights, in case the power goes out". Dear, our lights don't go out, no matter what happens to everyone else's. "Oh yea..."

Solar isn't cheap. Can't compete for cost per watt with the power company. But when the grid isn't there, you can find out how much money it'll cost you to replace all the food in your fridge and freezer. I learned that lesson in 1995. Hurricane Erin, a lowly category 1 storm, knocked out power for 3 days. Couldn't get any relief from the heat. I've owned at least a basic generator after that.

I'm at the point now where I can even enjoy a 5000 BTU window A/C with my inverter & battery bank setup. I can keep 1 room cold, and when it's 95 outside, you need to get out of the heat otherwise you'll likely end up with heat stroke.

 

[Teken]

Wow, is that the tree on your property that got blown down? Just wow! I sure hope you used up all that good wood though!

Teken . . .

 

[mrgm]

from what I have read so far. I'd like a system I can grow. thinking of starting off slow, one panel at a time...add inverters when I expand. want to start by putting my refrigerator, air conditioning system on solar to run during the day, and on grid when solar is not available. I live in Abilene, tx, I get about 6 hours of light avg.

http://directory.leadmaverick.com/Axium-Solar/DallasFort-WorthArlington/TX/10/8805/index.aspx

I live on 5+ acres, the house sits on about 2 that is cleared and has full sun. roof ridge is a little off from north/ south. so may need to set a little weird on roof.

the may reason would be to offset cost and maybe make a little money from grid. So if this just feeds the power grid that would be fine.

I also hope to convert my electric heat/ water heater to instantaneous using propane.

my area is GREAT for wind turbine set up also. would be pretty constant also. looking at pros and cons for both

my last electric bill was about $200 thru WTU ( will be switching to Reliant soon) this was with very little use from aircondioning. House is about 2000sq foot.

 

[Teken]

from what I have read so far. I'd like a system I can grow. thinking of starting off slow, one panel at a time...add inverters when I expand. want to start by putting my refrigerator, air conditioning system on solar to run during the day, and on grid when solar is not available. I live in Abilene, tx, I get about 6 hours of light avg.

http://directory.leadmaverick.com/Axium-Solar/DallasFort-WorthArlington/TX/10/8805/index.aspx

I live on 5+ acres, the house sits on about 2 that is cleared and has full sun. roof ridge is a little off from north/ south. so may need to set a little weird on roof.

the may reason would be to offset cost and maybe make a little money from grid. So if this just feeds the power grid that would be fine.

I also hope to convert my electric heat/ water heater to instantaneous using propane.

my area is GREAT for wind turbine set up also. would be pretty constant also. looking at pros and cons for both

my last electric bill was about $200 thru WTU ( will be switching to Reliant soon) this was with very little use from aircondioning. House is about 2000sq foot.

If you want to be able to grow the system than you can't go wrong with using Enphase micro inverters. They will allow you to install from one panel up to what ever you can afford to install.

These micro inverters are installed at each solar panel. They change all the DC into AC which reduces line loss and reduces cost for wire size. They also help to ensure no single panel will take down your grid.

As each work as an independent solar generator inverter system. Shading will not impact the string as it is with a single inverter system.

Using a traditional inverter which is installed at the panel / outside. You will need to either purchase large enough, or be locked into a smaller size and wont be able to expand.

Given your large property you can't go wrong with a ground system which allows you more latitude in placement and orientation. This also reduces any risk to the home in terms of wind / snow loads if the home is quite old.

If you simply want to sell back the power to the POCO. Nothing is stopping you from doing so, and know you can always add on and modify your existing system to allow a hybrid system which has as many or small battery banks.

This is why I have started my own journey into the whole solar farming. If your area is nice for wind than I would definitely encourage you to do that first, or have it as part of your system.

Wind blows all the time no matter day or night. Solar as you're aware is only during the day, and does not account for cloudy days even for the best region.

If I was able to do a wind generator properly I would. But, right now I am that guy in the neighborhood.

Being that guy tends to make you stand out and sometimes it upsets others who are not familiar with such technology.

Teken . . .

 

[where2]

If you want to be able to grow the system than you can't go wrong with using Enphase micro inverters. They will allow you to install from one panel up to what ever you can afford to install.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.

However, there seem to be a few contraints: you are limited to 17 Enphase on each 20A branch circuit, and seemingly limited to a maximum of 20% of the service entrance rating for back feeding. From what I can tell, the intent of NEC 690.64(B)2 was to keep you from drawing more than 120% of the maximum panel rated current.

Example: If you had a 150A service entrance, and you were drawing every bit of that 150A, AND you had a 50A solar back feed on a cool crisp spring day, then you potentially have 200A available in your panel for consumption. (133% of bus bar ratings) I'm not sure I completely agree with the "theory" behind the rule. John Wiles attempts to explain it in a paper here:

http://www.nmsu.edu/~tdi/pdf-resources/cc89.pdf

If I wasn't tripping the 150A main breaker before the PV array was installed, I'm not sure how I'd be capable of consuming 200A afterwards? Anyone who did their homework should have cut their consumption before they added a PV array. The NEC seems to presume you added the PV array as a bandaid to cover your overconsumption.

It seems rather crazy to me that I can have a 60A breaker for electric heat strips in my 150A panel, but I cannot have more than a 30A back feed from my solar array. I'd really like to know if having the house on a separate sub-panel from the service entrance/meter panel would alleviate this restriction? If the house sub-panel uses a 150A main breaker to keep the loads inside the sub-panel under control, then why can't I have a 60A or 100A back-feed into my service entrance panel?

 

[Teken]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.

However, there seem to be a few contraints: you are limited to 17 Enphase on each 20A branch circuit, and seemingly limited to a maximum of 20% of the service entrance rating for back feeding. From what I can tell, the intent of NEC 690.64(B)2 was to keep you from drawing more than 120% of the maximum panel rated current.

Example: If you had a 150A service entrance, and you were drawing every bit of that 150A, AND you had a 50A solar back feed on a cool crisp spring day, then you potentially have 200A available in your panel for consumption. (133% of bus bar ratings) I'm not sure I completely agree with the "theory" behind the rule. John Wiles attempts to explain it in a paper here:

http://www.nmsu.edu/~tdi/pdf-resources/cc89.pdf

If I wasn't tripping the 150A main breaker before the PV array was installed, I'm not sure how I'd be capable of consuming 200A afterwards? Anyone who did their homework should have cut their consumption before they added a PV array. The NEC seems to presume you added the PV array as a bandaid to cover your overconsumption.

It seems rather crazy to me that I can have a 60A breaker for electric heat strips in my 150A panel, but I cannot have more than a 30A back feed from my solar array. I'd really like to know if having the house on a separate sub-panel from the service entrance/meter panel would alleviate this restriction? If the house sub-panel uses a 150A main breaker to keep the loads inside the sub-panel under control, then why can't I have a 60A or 100A back-feed into my service entrance panel?

That is a very interesting area to consider and think about. This is something I did not think about too much to be honest.

Why?

Because I will never be able to produce enough KWH's in this region due to orientation, weather, and the number of panels I will ultimately have deployed. Now, don't get me wrong once all of the panels arrive and are installed my home will be above net neutral!

Right now I have more time than money.

Teken . . .

 

[where2]

...Because I will never be able to produce enough KWH's in this region due to orientation, weather, and the number of panels I will ultimately have deployed. Now, don't get me wrong once all of the panels arrive and are installed my home will be above net neutral!

Right now I have more time than money.

Teken . . .

Having a large consumer 3.5ton A/C (14SEER), this limitation definitely cuts into my production abilities. The A/C consumes ~3.5kWh when it is running. I haven't had my NEST thermostat during the summer yet to know how much total time the A/C runs on an average summer day (I've seen 4 hours once already). I'd be content with being net neutral on an average summer day, but I'm not going to stop using the A/C (my wife is from northern Maine, >81°F is a problem). I've got the yard space to expand my PV after I fill up my little south facing second floor roof, but it seems crazy I'd have to upsize my panel when my consumption really isn't changing. My year to year consumption is trending downward, even before my PV goes online. My consumption would trend downward drastically, if I could stop using the electric clothes dryer 5x per week at 3kWh/load!

As for having more time than $$$, I found that having more $$$ than time made me far less frugal, and far less conscious of what I was spending my $$$ on. I am fortunate that I applied much of my excess $$$ to my mortgage principal when I had more $$$ than time, rather than spending it frivolously. Now that the cost of solar is through the floor, I am able to gobble up panels, but I'd really love to have a $10 electric bill all year long.

 

[where2]

For those wondering how expensive solar is at todays prices: a 230W-235W 35V panel is under $200. An enphase M215 grid-tie inverter is $160 (with one drop of portrait trunk cable).

The Morningstar Sunlight SL-10L-12V that 2ManyToyz is using to control the inverter for his carriage lights is still ~$90.

I tested a pair of Home Depot CREE LED 60W equivalent bulbs on a modified sine-wave inverter tonight. They work on MSW output.