Solar Pricing in VA

[jeepxj]

in NJ:

my top quote so far after looking around a week:

16.8kw system
42 - 400w panels (Powerx-400r)
enphase iq8+
combiner

the quote currently sits at 44,800 cash price for turn key. 2.67 a watt installed before rebates.
rebate will be 11,650.

cash price of 33,150 after rebate.

1.97 per watt installed.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

that pricing sounds within reason

Ah, got it, thanks.

it definitely gives a cleaner look. all you can see from the side is the black panel frame on the black racking. it's about as unobtrusive as one could hope for. also avoids self-shading in the off-seasons.

 

[mike93lx]

that pricing sounds within reason

it definitely gives a cleaner look. all you can see from the side is the black panel frame on the black racking. it's about as unobtrusive as one could hope for. also avoids self-shading in the off-seasons.

I honestly thought that this was generally the default on residential systems. Maybe it's that I am used to steeper slopes on new England roofs? Either way, it's the way I'll almost certainly do it

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I honestly thought that this was generally the default on residential systems. Maybe it's that I am used to steeper slopes on new England roofs? Either way, it's the way I'll almost certainly do it

There's one install in my area that isn't "flush". looks weird to me. I think it's a much older install as well.

 

[hh76]

Sure can. my cost per watt installed goes up pretty dramatically making the ROI period much longer.

True, but you add a nice covered patio that can also take advantage of tax credits.

 

[dcg9381]

Power output for a 6KW system, facing due south, but tilt is only 5 degrees:

 

[dcg9381]

True, but you add a nice covered patio that can also take advantage of tax credits.

That's a very good point.. IF you can get a contractor to break out the porch structure / associated concrete into "solar roof structure" (something like that) I'd probably give it the old write-off with the IRS.

 

[mike93lx]

That's a very good point.. IF you can get a contractor to break out the porch structure / associated concrete into "solar roof structure" (something like that) I'd probably give it the old write-off with the IRS.

It's only a problem In an audit.

Send it!

 

[ipgenie]

I believe that the requirements for a ground mount include covers protecting the wiring from being accessed from below, or high enough that the wiring can't be reached, or fenced off to prevent access to the wires.
Putting a roof on the "solar structure" would meet the wire protection and raising it up just meets two of the three (only one is required). If the "solar structure" is freestanding next to the house I don't see how it would fail an audit even if the two happened to be so close together that the roofing (metal or shingles) overlapped slightly.
Local buildng authority might see it differently but the tax credit doesn't go through them. I'd be tempted to give it a go.

 

[gpiggaz]

I believe that the requirements for a ground mount include covers protecting the wiring from being accessed from below, or high enough that the wiring can't be reached, or fenced off to prevent access to the wires.
Putting a roof on the "solar structure" would meet the wire protection and raising it up just meets two of the three (only one is required). If the "solar structure" is freestanding next to the house I don't see how it would fail an audit even if the two happened to be so close together that the roofing (metal or shingles) overlapped slightly.
Local buildng authority might see it differently but the tax credit doesn't go through them. I'd be tempted to give it a go.

The requirement in my jurisdiction was exactly that. I met it with a simple covering using shade cloth, that satisfied the inspector. It also made the underside less ”ugly” when viewed from the yard. We don’t yet know how tha cover will hold up long term but we are just giving it a wait and see

 

[inphx]

Chiming in on costs. In AZ the grid tie system permits limit the size of system you can have. I did a "off grid" with its own load center and will charge cars and run ac units off of it. It has a "starter" set of two 5.12 kw batteries , so far with all my pice and parts ordering, including tools and wire im crossing over $20k (before fed tax rebate). I did not get a kit so i have a spreadsheet tracking all the piece/parts in bound from numerous suppliers and ebay stores.

 

[mike93lx]

The requirement in my jurisdiction was exactly that. I met it with a simple covering using shade cloth, that satisfied the inspector. It also made the underside less ”ugly” when viewed from the yard. We don’t yet know how tha cover will hold up long term but we are just giving it a wait and see

I believe they were talking about IRS requirements for a tax deduction

 

[dcg9381]

Chiming in on costs. In AZ the grid tie system permits limit the size of system you can have. I did a "off grid" with its own load center and will charge cars and run ac units off of it. It has a "starter" set of two 5.12 kw batteries , so far with all my pice and parts ordering, including tools and wire im crossing over $20k (before fed tax rebate). I did not get a kit so i have a spreadsheet tracking all the piece/parts in bound from numerous suppliers and ebay stores.

Post it up as you install it.
I took a look at AZ's rules, they seem to be:
"The state of Arizona sets a maximum system size limit of 125% of the customer's total connected load."

I don't know if this is "actual load", size of the main, or is based on load calculation... If it's one of the latter 2, those are still pretty big systems... Perhaps not enough to get you to net zero cost, but still pretty big.

I mean I get it.. AZ seems to be smarter than CA, they're looking at total generation capacity and don't want to end up like CA where there is too much solar production at peak.

 

[frankd]

We had a 8,910kw system installed (27 330 watt Panasonic panels and solaredge inverter) in November 2018. Total cost at the time was $28k but after federal and state rebates it ended up being ~$14,000. I had calculated our breakeven point to be about 6 years but with the increase in electric costs, it might be a little less than that.
Our electric bill went down to ~$13 which is just basically a connection fee to stay connected to the grid. Initially we were very happy with it but a few months ago our solar inverter stopped working. It took a while for us to realize it wasnt working because my wife wasnt checking the usage on our bill and we were drawing electricity from our "storage bank".
Once I realized it wasnt working, I called the installer, who then contacted the company (solaredge). They are sending a replacement unit, which will be changed for free...but it's been a month and nothing has been done. The installer is saying that they havent received the replacement unit yet. I suspect that the installer actually has the replacement unit but they're too busy with new installations that they dont want to deal with service work that probably doesnt pay much, if anything. I tried to see if Solaredge would just send me the inverter and I'd have someone install it for me... but they wont.

So.. overall I'm pretty frustrated with converting to solar. I assumed this stuff would give me years of trouble free use but having the inverter fail after 3 years is not cool. After doing some research it turns out that its a pretty common issue... and new inverters cost ~$2k. The inverter has a 7 year warranty but if I have to keep replacing these things every 3-4 years, that's going to really eat into the savings and push my breakeven point way out into the future.

 

[mike93lx]

We had a 8,910kw system installed (27 330 watt Panasonic panels and solaredge inverter) in November 2018. Total cost at the time was $28k but after federal and state rebates it ended up being ~$14,000. I had calculated our breakeven point to be about 6 years but with the increase in electric costs, it might be a little less than that.
Our electric bill went down to ~$13 which is just basically a connection fee to stay connected to the grid. Initially we were very happy with it but a few months ago our solar inverter stopped working. It took a while for us to realize it wasnt working because my wife wasnt checking the usage on our bill and we were drawing electricity from our "storage bank".
Once I realized it wasnt working, I called the installer, who then contacted the company (solaredge). They are sending a replacement unit, which will be changed for free...but it's been a month and nothing has been done. The installer is saying that they havent received the replacement unit yet. I suspect that the installer actually has the replacement unit but they're too busy with new installations that they dont want to deal with service work that probably doesnt pay much, if anything. I tried to see if Solaredge would just send me the inverter and I'd have someone install it for me... but they wont.

So.. overall I'm pretty frustrated with converting to solar. I assumed this stuff would give me years of trouble free use but having the inverter fail after 3 years is not cool. After doing some research it turns out that its a pretty common issue... and new inverters cost ~$2k. The inverter has a 7 year warranty but if I have to keep replacing these things every 3-4 years, that's going to really eat into the savings and push my breakeven point way out into the future.

A 6 year breakeven with no maintenance was a pipe dream in the first place, IMO

 

[Magna86]

The second two companies never reached back out or followed up. Seems they wanted that quick signature and sale. The first company which is Sunpower did and if I end up doing it I'll probably go with them. Here is their proposal. Still not going to get it done this year but maybe next year after we get some other things squared away/paid off. The other companies wouldn't even send me this.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

We had a 8,910kw system installed (27 330 watt Panasonic panels and solaredge inverter) in November 2018. Total cost at the time was $28k but after federal and state rebates it ended up being ~$14,000. I had calculated our breakeven point to be about 6 years but with the increase in electric costs, it might be a little less than that.
Our electric bill went down to ~$13 which is just basically a connection fee to stay connected to the grid. Initially we were very happy with it but a few months ago our solar inverter stopped working. It took a while for us to realize it wasnt working because my wife wasnt checking the usage on our bill and we were drawing electricity from our "storage bank".
Once I realized it wasnt working, I called the installer, who then contacted the company (solaredge). They are sending a replacement unit, which will be changed for free...but it's been a month and nothing has been done. The installer is saying that they havent received the replacement unit yet. I suspect that the installer actually has the replacement unit but they're too busy with new installations that they dont want to deal with service work that probably doesnt pay much, if anything. I tried to see if Solaredge would just send me the inverter and I'd have someone install it for me... but they wont.

So.. overall I'm pretty frustrated with converting to solar. I assumed this stuff would give me years of trouble free use but having the inverter fail after 3 years is not cool. After doing some research it turns out that its a pretty common issue... and new inverters cost ~$2k. The inverter has a 7 year warranty but if I have to keep replacing these things every 3-4 years, that's going to really eat into the savings and push my breakeven point way out into the future.

I had some snow on a few of my panels in the shade right after install. my installer emailed me the next day to ask if everything was OK with the system, mentioning 3 micros were not reporting in.

finally a win for cloud services (and a good installer). I guess solar is like AC. doesn't matter what you get, just who put it in?

 

[dcg9381]

So.. overall I'm pretty frustrated with converting to solar. I assumed this stuff would give me years of trouble free use but having the inverter fail after 3 years is not cool. After doing some research it turns out that its a pretty common issue... and new inverters cost ~$2k. The inverter has a 7 year warranty but if I have to keep replacing these things every 3-4 years, that's going to really eat into the savings and push my breakeven point way out into the future.

I've done 5 systems or so - none are microinverter. I've never had an inverter fail (I use Frontius). I think you were just on the bad side of the "luck" curve.. No root cause on the failure? Lightening strike, etc? Just dead?

 

[frankd]

A 6 year breakeven with no maintenance was a pipe dream in the first place, IMO

I didn't think so. We were paying around $2,250/year for electricity before . Assuming an annual price increase of 3%, we'd be past our break-even point at the end of year 6. That's assuming $0 maintenance/repair cost. Historically our rates have increased by around 3% a year but they've actually increased more than that recently because of the increased cost of natural gas.
The panels have a 20 year warranty through Panasonic. The Inverter has a 7 year warranty.

 

[frankd]

I've done 5 systems or so - none are microinverter. I've never had an inverter fail (I use Frontius). I think you were just on the bad side of the "luck" curve.. No root cause on the failure? Lightening strike, etc? Just dead?

I'm really glad to hear this. I was getting worried that this was going to become a regular occurrence. My next door neighbors have had their system for 16 years and haven't had to replace anything (so they say). So that made me hopeful.
They installer didn't mention a root cause. I just called them when the system stopped working and they said they contacted the mfg (solaredge) who was able to communicate with the unit and identified a "hardware failure", and that they would send a replacement.

The installer actually showed up this morning and replaced the inverter, so my meter is spinning backwards again! They had initially scheduled the service for a month ago and kept pushing it back to the following Friday because the replacement "hadn't arrived yet". Conveniently when I called yesterday to complain, the inverter miraculously appeared and the installer was here at 8AM to replacing it.

 

[jeepxj]

im down to 2 quotes that i think im going to allow to come in for an on site inspection.

one is at 2.68 a watt installed. the other is at 3.01 a watt.
400/405w panels. enphase micros.


it looks like i'm right on the very edge of needing a 400a service upgrade. so that makes it fun.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

im down to 2 quotes that i think im going to allow to come in for an on site inspection.

one is at 2.68 a watt installed. the other is at 3.01 a watt.
400/405w panels. enphase micros.


it looks like i'm right on the very edge of needing a 400a service upgrade. so that makes it fun.

i think "any" electrical work remotely related to the project is tax credit eligible. replacing outlets, no. service entrance work, yes. does the Poco charge more for 400A service?

 

[jeepxj]

i think "any" electrical work remotely related to the project is tax credit eligible. replacing outlets, no. service entrance work, yes. does the Poco charge more for 400A service?

exactly why im doing it now.

no cost aside from them laying more cable in. now the fun part: i'll pay 400 bucks for an EV charger then they're on the hook for up to 5k in service upgrade costs. its only a 200' run or so. and lord i hope the transformer is ok.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I'm pretty sure the pole transformer behind my house serves something like 14 houses. If I read the paint markings correctly it's a 35kVA transformer. if that's accurate that's only 2.5kVA/house. I also think thats average, not peak capacity, but I am basically guessing at everything when it comes to transformer sizing.

even the transformers by supercharger installs look too small based on nameplate.

 

[jeepxj]

I'm pretty sure the pole transformer behind my house serves something like 14 houses. If I read the paint markings correctly it's a 35kVA transformer. if that's accurate that's only 2.5kVA/house. I also think thats average, not peak capacity, but I am basically guessing at everything when it comes to transformer sizing.

even the transformers by supercharger installs look too small based on nameplate.

yea i think there are 4 of us on that tiny transformer. on the upside my pole has 2 medium voltage circuits on it so if they need to put me on another grid its just as easy as moving the tap.

 

[83VillageRepair]

I'm pretty sure the pole transformer behind my house serves something like 14 houses. If I read the paint markings correctly it's a 35kVA transformer. if that's accurate that's only 2.5kVA/house. I also think thats average, not peak capacity, but I am basically guessing at everything when it comes to transformer sizing.

even the transformers by supercharger installs look too small based on nameplate.

Power transformers are liquid cooled and can run 1.5 to 2X nameplate especially overhead Pots.

 

[jeepxj]

Power transformers are liquid cooled and can run 1.5 to 2X nameplate especially overhead Pots.

is there a duty cycle on that?

 

[83VillageRepair]

is there a duty cycle on that?

They will do it for years

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Power transformers are liquid cooled and can run 1.5 to 2X nameplate especially overhead Pots.

oil filled is not quite the same as liquid cooled. but i have some understanding of the ramifications of extra thermal mass.

is there a duty cycle on that?

They will do it for years

so why the rating? I have searched but haven't found answers. at some point you can't get enough amps through a transformer and you have problems. at another point you light it on fire/fail the insulation.

is it for end user satisfaction? i.e. the core isn't saturated so you won't notice massive voltage drop when 5 ACs start simultaneously?

 

[jeepxj]

They will do it for years

I get that. Will the poco spec them to be so over subscribed?

 

[83VillageRepair]

I get that. Will the poco spec them to be so over subscribed?

Not normally. A lot of utility's use 7kVA per customer as a rule of thumb but it varies widely.

 

[83VillageRepair]

so why the rating? I have searched but haven't found answers. at some point you can't get enough amps through a transformer and you have problems. at another point you light it on fire/fail the insulation.

is it for end user satisfaction? i.e. the core isn't saturated so you won't notice massive voltage drop when 5 ACs start simultaneously?

I suppose it's historical more than anything. Loads grow over time and the end user never reports when they add load. Transformers are definitely getting less robust as aluminum windings and rectangular amorphous cores become the norm.

 

[jeepxj]

Not normally. A lot of utility's use 7kVA per customer as a rule of thumb but it varies widely.

ahh so its just a growth thing where they work that way but if they pop they're replaced with correctly specced units.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I get that. Will the poco spec them to be so over subscribed?

Not normally. A lot of utility's use 7kVA per customer as a rule of thumb but it varies widely.

maybe I read it wrong, from the few poco guys I asked who do regular stuff (not the transformer guys), they had no idea what the markings mean.

I suppose it's historical more than anything. Loads grow over time and the end user never reports when they add load. Transformers are definitely getting less robust as aluminum windings and rectangular amorphous cores become the norm.

they have smart meter data, and historical billing data. shouldn't be hard to figure that out.

this rolled through a few years back after a handful of complaints (by us, the only customer served by it), no problems since. the new one is physically bigger by a noticeable amount:

 

[83VillageRepair]

they have smart meter data, and historical billing data. shouldn't be hard to figure that out.

They bill on usage but need to size based on rate of usage. Then there is the whole problem of diversity and coincidence. It's harder than it looks like most things.

I apologize to the OP for derailing the thread

 

[u3b3rg33k]

They bill on usage but need to size based on rate of usage. Then there is the whole problem of diversity and coincidence. It's harder than it looks like most things.

I apologize to the OP for derailing the thread

smart meters collect demand info, too. mine sure does.

 

[ipgenie]

I had to change my meter to 400A (320A continuous) when I installed my solar. That expense qualified for the credit.

I didn't have to change the wires from the pole, but the upgrade was required because bus in the 200A meter was not rated for the 200A potential grid supply plus the 100A+ the solar was capable of supplying. The bus had to be rated high enough to sustain a draw equal to the total potential of both supplies.
My meter is split with 200A going to the house and 200A to the inverters.

 

[mike93lx]

I had to change my meter to 400A (320A continuous) when I installed my solar. That expense qualified for the credit.

I didn't have to change the wires from the pole, but the upgrade was required because bus in the 200A meter was not rated for the 200A potential grid supply plus the 100A+ the solar was capable of supplying. The bus had to be rated high enough to sustain a draw equal to the total potential of both supplies.
My meter is split with 200A going to the house and 200A to the inverters.

That is a huge solar setup ...details ?

 

[jeepxj]

That is a huge solar setup ...details ?

**** im at 77a for solar. load calc existing is over 200a. best not be needing a 600a setup i hope.

 

[mike93lx]

**** im at 77a for solar. load calc existing is over 200a. best not be needing a 600a setup i hope.

Your post said 16.8kw, not 20. Did you go bigger?

24kw (100a) is a big residential system