Some deck questions...

[Innovate1]

Have a composite deck (trex) that was done in 2004. This was before the planks had side slots for hold downs and the screws were put through the face. The installers spaced the board out very little so roof shingle granules and other small bits of stuff plug up the gaps between boards and water collects when it rains. I can't even get a putty knife between them in some places. So I am taking up every other board and narrowing it a bit. I thought about just spacing out the boards a bit more but then the holes for railings wouldn't work out. Running them through the table saw and routing a slight bevel on the edge is working well. That's just background...

The screws used don't seem to be available any more and I figure it would be good to replace them. And a few stripped out so I would like to use a slightly longer screw (originals were 2.5"). The planking is gray. The only thing I have found that is close to matching is just an exterior screw similar to a drywall screw but galvanized. Those should work but wondering if better ones are available. The pic is the original screws.

Where the planks parallel the side of the building the plank overlaps the ledger board and the flashing above it which traps moisture. Wondering how this is usually dealt with. My plan is to cut a bevel on the bottom of the edge so the plank runs to near the siding but is thinner leaving some room underneath.

The picture of the stairs is not at my place - it is an example of the fascia material I would like to get. I have seen some 1/2" material used on more recent decks. What are the brands used there? Also have seen screws that look to have heads similar to button head cap screws as the counter bore looks straight sided but they might be angled for more conventional countersink . Who make them? They are color matched to the 1/2" material. It was black but I am looking for white. Vinyl J channel was used on ours but doesn't seem to even be made any more. It also rippled in spots.

 

[PoorUB]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09C6QD2MG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[blwn31]

Those are standard composite decking screws that you can buy at just about any home improvement store. You may have to order them to get the right color though. When those screws come out they blow out the top of the composite decking, because the upper threads are cut in a reverse pattern to prevent them from coming loose over time. Don't use an impact driver on these to remove, they will most likely break off. You are better off using a drill with the correct driver bit.

Keith

 

[Innovate1]

Those are standard composite decking screws that you can buy at just about any home improvement store. You may have to order them to get the right color though. When those screws come out they blow out the top of the composite decking, because the upper threads are cut in a reverse pattern to prevent them from coming loose over time. Don't use an impact driver on these to remove, they will most likely break off. You are better off using a drill with the correct driver bit.

Keith

I haven't found them to be available and have checked the local big box stores. They seem to have only the newer, shorter screws and clips that go between the boards. You are right they tear out a lot of material when backing out and enlarge the hole. As far as the impact driver they are square drive and an impact driver has worked great so far. Only issue is some have stripped in the wood and not wanted to back out. The deck framing seems solid so surprised any have stripped out. Would like to use slightly longer screws because of that. Have just had a couple so far so with the others out I can pull the board up. Some boards are wedged in by the small bits of crud on the sides and have to be tapped up with a hammer even with all the screws out because of the lack of spacing.

 

[mike93lx]

Before you put them back down, put joist tape on the framing. It will help it last a lot longer

 

[yeldogt]

The reverse thread is to pull in any volcano ...also original Trex was coated as it is wood fiber/dust .... I'm not sure trimming is a good idea.

Get a squeegee

 

[yeldogt]

Before you put them back down, put joist tape on the framing. It will help it last a lot longer

I would like to see a long term study on this detail ..... to me it makes no sense. To my eye it's a water trap and I have never seen an old deck with rot there. I wonder if the newish PT of the past 15 years or so has more of a problem. The new stuff is just better than none at all

 

[Innovate1]

The reverse thread is to pull in any volcano ...also original Trex was coated as it is wood fiber/dust .... I'm not sure trimming is a good idea.

Get a squeegee

The original installers didn't predrill and I have splitting on most of the ends of planks where the screws are close to the end. I suspect the screws are marketed as no predrilling required but it would have been a LOT better.

Your note about coating and wood fiber makes no sense. That's not what this stuff looks like and I'm pretty sure it is trex. I have already cut some down and the material looks the same throughout. The surface is no different than the interior. I know much of the current stuff has an outer layer that is colored and the interior is different color and perhaps other differences. I have seen at least one brand where the side slots were cut through the outer layer and I noticed some separation of the outer layer at the slot - a very bad way to do it IMHO and likely to deteriorate over time due to water ingress, freezing, etc.

 

[yeldogt]

The original installers didn't predrill and I have splitting on most of the ends of planks where the screws are close to the end. I suspect the screws are marketed as no predrilling required but it would have been a LOT better.

Your note about coating and wood fiber makes no sense. That's not what this stuff looks like and I'm pretty sure it is trex. I have already cut some down and the material looks the same throughout. The surface is no different than the interior. I know much of the current stuff has an outer layer that is colored and the interior is different color and perhaps other differences. I have seen at least one brand where the side slots were cut through the outer layer and I noticed some separation of the outer layer at the slot - a very bad way to do it IMHO and likely to deteriorate over time due to water ingress, freezing, etc.

Most did not pre-drill .... that was the idea with the complex screw. You have to keep the screw back from the edges to make it work.

You mention 2004 .... that was early in the game and my memory is they coated the product. Not a wrap ... but it was a brown that made the product uniform.

 

[Wolley]

Trap head deck screws are what you want. Should be able to get 3 inch at HD or lowes. Might be out of stock though. That looks like a weatherbest deck. I remember doing a couple of those around that time and the screws had a cup shape to pull in the raised burr into the board. I think we still predrilled because it looked better.

 

[Innovate1]

Screws

Link doesn't work. It goes to Lowes but shows a general page and asks me to sign in.

 

[Innovate1]

Most did not pre-drill .... that was the idea with the complex screw. You have to keep the screw back from the edges to make it work.

You mention 2004 .... that was early in the game and my memory is they coated the product. Not a wrap ... but it was a brown that made the product uniform.

The screws are back from the ends about as far as possible and still hit the joist.

This stuff is gray and gray thoughout.

 

[Kenstone1]

Here's 3 inch

Amazon.com: FastenMaster TrapEase 3 Deck Screws for Composite, PVC and Capstock Decking - Box of 350 - Trex Transcend Tree House : Industrial & Scientific

Buy FastenMaster TrapEase 3 Deck Screws for Composite, PVC and Capstock Decking - Box of 350 - Trex Transcend Tree House: Wood Screws - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

.

 

[yeldogt]

The screws are back from the ends about as far as possible and still hit the joist.

This stuff is gray and gray thoughout.

It is pushing 20 years old ... that's quite good. The original TREX was sort of a brown -- that's my memory. It did wash out ... I used it on a project. My neighbor worked for Mobil in the late 90's. In areas where it would get algae and mold it did not hold up.

From your pictures it looks like it has held up very well

 

[Damon L.]

They have 2-3/4" at Menards: https://www.menards.com/main/hardwa...-lb-box/cd234g-1lb/p-1444453668779-c-8929.htm

Home depot shows 3" gray ones available:

Grip-Rite #9 x 3 in. Coarse Gray Polymer-Plated Steel Star-Drive Bugle Head Composite Deck Screws (5 lb. Pack) N3CSG5 - The Home Depot

These composite decking screws offer a type-17 point to reduce the need to pre-drill polymer or composite lumber boards. They feature a dual thread to improve driving and holding power. They offer a pancake

www.homedepot.com

 

[Max]

I just had a trex deck installed a month ago. The long planks are grooved and held by clamps. But the stairs are screwed through like yours are. They are self tapping and look like these:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Deck-Plus-10-x-2-1-2-in-Ceramic-Deck-Screws-5-lb/1000318519

 

[Innovate1]

It is pushing 20 years old ... that's quite good. The original TREX was sort of a brown -- that's my memory. It did wash out ... I used it on a project. My neighbor worked for Mobil in the late 90's. In areas where it would get algae and mold it did not hold up.

From your pictures it looks like it has held up very well

The picture is of a much more recent deck that used the 1/2" fascia boards. I am looking for more information on that material. I can post some pics of mine tonight.

 

[69charged]

Home Depot and the like all sell those particular deck screws in 3". I have a pile of them left over in both gray and walnut. If you were closer, I'd send you them for free. I have had them for about 9 years, and will never use them. But my boards have the slot down the side. Your not so lucky.
Clarence

Sorry. just went and found them. Your correct. They are 2.5". My bad. Could have sworn they were 3"

 

[acer66]

I would like to see a long term study on this detail ..... to me it makes no sense. To my eye it's a water trap and I have never seen an old deck with rot there. I wonder if the newish PT of the past 15 years or so has more of a problem. The new stuff is just better than none at all

You do not have to take my word for it just look at any older deck that deals with moisture/4seasons.

I just ripped out another decades old deck and will be soon ripping out the next old one and both have severe weather damage at the top of the joist some with vegetation growing out of it.
At the next job some joists are almost completely hollow at the upper part just some intact layers of paint giving you the illusion that there is much structural integrity left.

I always advise against building one without joist protection and the deck I building for myself will for sure have it.

 

[dcg9381]

Before you put them back down, put joist tape on the framing. It will help it last a lot longer

Yes, one of the big deck failures I've had is a leaky screw that goes into the joist. Eventually the screw lets water into the joist and then you've got a mess.

OP - there are also stainless screws. Probably a little more noticeable, but also probably a bit more resilient.

 

[Milzo]

Order screws from here https://fascofas.com/collections/screws/Composite-Deck-Screws. Yeldogt might be right, some of the early composite was just a wood fiber mixed with plastics. The current composite decking is a wood fiber center capped with pvc on 4 sides.

​

 

[mike93lx]

I would like to see a long term study on this detail ..... to me it makes no sense. To my eye it's a water trap and I have never seen an old deck with rot there. I wonder if the newish PT of the past 15 years or so has more of a problem. The new stuff is just better than none at all

How would it trap water?

 

[Half-fast eddie]

The picture is of a much more recent deck that used the 1/2" fascia boards. I am looking for more information on that material. I can post some pics of mine tonight.

That’s the problem. You can’t post an incorrect picture and expect coherent answers.

I’m installing a TimberTech deck now, i bought screws off amazon in the size and color I wanted. Probably cost a few dollars extra, but they were delivered in 2 days and they are correct.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

I would like to see a long term study on this detail ..... to me it makes no sense. To my eye it's a water trap and I have never seen an old deck with rot there. I wonder if the newish PT of the past 15 years or so has more of a problem. The new stuff is just better than none at all

The problem is that the deck boards prevent the moisture from evaporating. The gaps between the boards dry out quickly, the 5” under the board stays damp. I bought this tape, works well, cost effective … much cheaper than home depot. The suff in the store is just 1-1/2” wide … exactly as wide as the joist. This stuff wraps over the top.

 

[yeldogt]

How would it trap water?

Decks get wet -- wind and rain. SYP soaks up water. Just covering the top does not stop the framing from getting wet.

 

[yeldogt]

You do not have to take my word for it just look at any older deck that deals with moisture/4seasons.

I just ripped out another decades old deck and will be soon ripping out the next old one and both have severe weather damage at the top of the joist some with vegetation growing out of it.
At the next job some joists are almost completely hollow at the upper part just some intact layers of paint giving you the illusion that there is much structural integrity left.

I always advise against building one without joist protection and the deck I building for myself will for sure have it.

Have been around them all my life. At the coast ....my boat dock ... lake. I have not seen this problem ---

have seen decks that have simply dried out and in general finally rotted .... but not just that top spot on the beam.

 

[yeldogt]

Some of the basic decking products -- the stuff you see at the big box stores (dark gray or Brown) looks quite nice surfaced screwed with colored screws We just had a bulkhead done in gray and it looks fine and the surface nailing really holds. The key is using a template to either place the screws or make the boards.

 

[mike93lx]

Decks get wet -- wind and rain. SYP soaks up water. Just covering the top does not stop the framing from getting wet.

Obviously the rest gets wet. This is to stop water from sitting on the top and soaking in.

 

[acer66]

Obviously the rest gets wet. This is to stop water from sitting on the top and soaking in.

This, which is also the reason why some just flip the deck boards instead of replacing them.
While the top is weathered and has cracks the underside looks often like brand new.

 

[Innovate1]

I added a note to the first post that the stairs pictured there aren't mine and just to show the fascia I am interested in...

Here's some pic of mine. The undercut on the edge to get drainage for the plank over the ledger board. And they show the splits in the end. And one showing the vinyl fascia used that I would like to replace. The longer runs are wavy and the top angle makes it hard to sweep things off the deck.

 

[yeldogt]

Obviously the rest gets wet. This is to stop water from sitting on the top and soaking in.

I understand the whole theory behind it

...IMO decks need to dry just like any other wood. You have now trapped the water --- my guess the actual deck board at that beam will stay wet as water will wick under the deck board on top of the tape stuff.

Maybe is some climates ? I have replaced decking on many decks over the years (too many) and the structure under it was never damaged there unless time had taken the whole thing.

Just my observation

 

[Innovate1]

I did find composite deck screws but all I have seen locally have much smaller heads than what I have. Since the holes are chewed out from removing the screws I was hoping to get the same size head. A regular countersunk exterior screw has a similar diameter head but all the screws I have seen and the links posted here show much smaller heads.

 

[mike93lx]

I did find composite deck screws but all I have seen locally have much smaller heads than what I have. Since the holes are chewed out from removing the screws I was hoping to get the same size head. A regular countersunk exterior screw has a similar diameter head but all the screws I have seen and the links posted here show much smaller heads.

How about flipping the boards?

 

[Innovate1]

Here's 3 inch

Amazon.com: FastenMaster TrapEase 3 Deck Screws for Composite, PVC and Capstock Decking - Box of 350 - Trex Transcend Tree House : Industrial & Scientific

Buy FastenMaster TrapEase 3 Deck Screws for Composite, PVC and Capstock Decking - Box of 350 - Trex Transcend Tree House: Wood Screws - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

.

No. They are standard 2.5 inch. The name includes 3 but that's not the length.

 

[Kenstone1]

No. They are standard 2.5 inch. The name includes 3 but that's not the length.

Thanks for reading/responding to my post.
OK, nevermind
How about these then:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DIUQEK8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[ItsNemo]

Call up FastenMaster/Cortex...they have really good customer service and am sure they'd be able to get you the right screws.

 

[Innovate1]

On the subject of joist tape and such... In pulling up the boards most of the screws are in good shape. Remarkably good shape considering they have been in for 18 years. But a couple had the tips rusted off and a few spun in the hole and wouldn't back out. The screws push some material forward to allow the head to push into the board and sit flush. On the bottom side there is a small shallow cone around the screw and a similar indent in the wood. Seems like that would trap any moisture that got in there so some sort of sealer seems like a good idea.

 

[69charged]

I have been using these screws on the last few decks I have built. They work good, and look good. They come in a variety of colors.

Deckfast&reg Fascia System | Starborn Industries, Inc.

Starborn offers a complete line of composite deck screws and screws for use with hardwood decks, including Headcote stainless steel deck screws with color coated heads, Cap-Tor capstock and composite deck screws, Deckfast epoxy coated deck screws, and Deckfast Metal for use with Trex^®...

starbornindustries.com

Maybe not for your deck boards, but I use them for facia. I guess you could use them on the deck boards. Might get pricey though.
Clarence

 

[Innovate1]

Well, I found some very similar screws on ebay and was about to order them when I ran across a recall on LP decking. I found an LP label on the end of one of my planks. So I need to give them a call next week. Not sure I will be able to get replacement but I am seeing some similar cracking...

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2009/c...acific-decks-can-deteriorate-and-break-posing

 

[Pluribus]

Food for thought on your deck board spacing: I go big when I've built my last two decks. Current one is almost 3/8", and the last one was just over 3/8". Haven't fully fastened them yet, so I'm considering pulling up the boards and going closer to 1/2". Bigger spaces are much easier to keep cleaned out.

When I was a kid, my dad built one with green (sawmill) lumber, and it shrank a lot when it dried. We ended up with some 1" gaps between boards. It was a little weird, but it didn't seem to cause issues. I can't recall tripping or getting a toe stuck in it.