Some Lathe Stuff

[Kevin54]

I think it would look good if you anodize it, then engrave it with some sort of a design afterwards.

When it comes to stock, check out some of your local scrapyards if you have any. I'm not sure where our scrap went when we got rid of ours (we work with all sorts of steel, stainless steel, and many different alloys of aluminum) As soon as I find out, I'll let you know. Many places that do any government work as far as machining, the company buys in lengths of steel, usually 12' lengths. When a part(s) are ordered from the Govt., the lengths are cut from that stock. At inventory time, a lot of that stock hits the scrap barrels because it is not allowed to be used for other parts because it was bought and paid for by government companies. I have seen whole skids of 1018 cold rolled go into a dumpster. The way that happens is the government company, and by that I mean it may be a place like Lockheed, Boeing, and such on the military side, the orders have been satisfied but the stock is left over. They may have reduced the orders, therefore leaving extra stock. If that stock was used to make something for the commercial side of a company, huge fines could be levied against us. Nothing brings a tear to your eye more than seeing a large roll-off container half full of 1/2" up to 2" diameter brass, headed to the scrap yard.

Now a lot of companies run chuckers or automatic feed lathes. A 12' piece of barstock is loaded into the chucker to start the run. 3' of this is automatically scrap because that it the length it takes for the chucker to hold the part. By that I mean when the bar feeder has fed all it can of the 12' length it still holds onto 3'. Those 3' pieces hit the scrap barrel. Then we have the billet aluminum. Mostly 6061-T6 or 2024-T3. When they make a part in the CNC lathes, there is around 8"+ of scrap that is used to hold in the jaws. That goes in the scrap.

Like I said, I'll get in touch with my buddy at work and find out who takes our scrap. I'm thinking it is someplace in Dayton that comes and gets it. I'll be sure to let you guys know, as I'd like to know myself.

 

[Monkey_Wrench]

Very nice stuff, and some very interesting posts in this thread as well!

 

[slow50]

Re: Some Lathe & Mill Stuff

a little off topic but do you have any better pics of the stand your using for the hf band saw. looks kinda like an engine stand. i just got the same saw and its a pain to move around on the original stand. thanks.

 

[deere2210]

Re: Some Lathe & Mill Stuff

a little off topic but do you have any better pics of the stand your using for the hf band saw. looks kinda like an engine stand. i just got the same saw and its a pain to move around on the original stand. thanks.

Here are a couple additional pics of the stand and a Solidworks pic to help see it better.. Real easy to build.. Base is wide enough that when it is upright in the vertical it is still solid.. Can roll it all over the garage.. Wheels are 5x2..

 

[deere2210]

So this is my next project for the bike build I am doing.. Found some dimensions on the net for forward controls and modified them for my needs/taste. Created some Solidworks models to see how they would look and work with the master cylinder I plan to use.. This is the right hand brake side.. Need to get them moved over into CAM next and start figuring out toolpaths, etc..

 

[ODIS]

Enjoyed the link to Tubalcain.

Have not spent much time at all with metal and think that this will be my next adventure into another area, of my many areas, of ineptitude.

Gained a new appreciation for your skills by reading this thread and was further impressed by a frequent poster, Kevin, and his skill as a tool/die maker. Very clever fellow and some very cool ideas/work.

Going to purchase plasma cutter and welder sometime this year as well as figuring out how to run the South Bend metal lathe in the garage. But first, there are still the wood projects that need to be finished up around here. Didn't someone mention it was: "Never Ending Projects?"

Thanks for the interesting thread and looking forward to reading more.

Ody.

PS:
Overlooked the modeling you have completed in Solid Works. Looks to be a very useful tool for the design phase of your work. Sketch Up has been my "go to" modeling tool but it looks like SW might be a better choice. Very nice work!

 

[Kevin54]

Enjoyed the link to Tubalcain.

Have not spent much time at all with metal and think that this will be my next adventure into another area, of my many areas, of ineptitude.

Gained a new appreciation for your skills by reading this thread and was further impressed by a frequent poster, Kevin, and his skill as a tool/die maker. Very clever fellow and some very cool ideas/work.

Going to purchase plasma cutter and welder sometime this year as well as figuring out how to run the South Bend metal lathe in the garage. But first, there are still the wood projects that need to be finished up around here. Didn't someone mention it was: "Never Ending Projects?"

Thanks for the interesting thread and looking forward to reading more.

Ody.

PS:
Overlooked the modeling you have completed in Solid Works. Looks to be a very useful tool for the design phase of your work. Sketch Up has been my "go to" modeling tool but it looks like SW might be a better choice. Very nice work!

Ody....almost everyone has some type of hobby that is satisfying to them. What some call work, others look at it as an escape from everyday problems. I have yet to meet someone that has machined for years to ever say they hate doing it. Cutting metal is no different than being a carpenter or being an artist. You start with a blank canvas and end up with a work of art. It's very peaceful and relaxing. It also keeps the brained tuned up which is very important the older that one gets.

 

[deere2210]

Hey Kevin, want to get your insight.. I'll post up some drawings tomorrow.. those two inner pieces in the bike forward controls are both dimensioned as .75 (one for ID and the other for OD). I'm gonna buy a reamer as I think they need to be tight tolerances.. guessing press fit? thinking the brass tube is pressed into that inner piece and then the smaller is same? hope that makes sense.. i'll post the pics tomorrow to help explain the question.. thanks

 

[deere2210]

All the pieces are designed to be press fit together, but the dimensions I am working off of don't show allowance for press fitting (e.g., 1" ID with a 1" brass OD bushing being pressed in). What sounds right for press fit? -.003 on OD of brass? Same thing for the other shaft link which is .625 OD going into the brass ID of .625.

 

[Kevin54]

Hard to read what the print states, but by your explanation I think I understand what you are trying to do.

First off, are you making the parts and if so, what material are you making them out of? Not knowing what the part does or how is exactly works, it looks to me like the brass part is the bushing to allow for the other part to rotate within the bushing. .001 to .0015 will be a tight enough press. After it's pressed in though you will have to ream out the center of the bushing, so your other component will have a slip fit within the bushing.

If everything pivots inside of the bushing, have you considered bearing bronze to make the bushing out of? The shaft that goes through the bushing, what material is that going to be?

The tighter the pressfit, the more that you will distort the I.D. Believe me when I tell you that we hsve distorted tool steel with a 6.000 O.D. and a 1.750 thru hole. That gives it a 2 1/8" wall. We changed the O.D. by almost .025 because we were forming reflectors into it. In the 6.000 dia. part we had a piece of soft rubber.

 

[deere2210]

Thanks Kevin, had no idea on the distortion problems. I would have reamed it in the lathe by itself, didn't even consider doing it after press fitting, good info. The pic below I think is what I should have the final OD/ID's to compensate based on what you said. Looks like I will need a 1.0 reamer and a .625 reamer to ream out part A and then the ID of part B, correct? Part B is the bushing and had called it out as Brass. Any problems with that or better to go with bearing bronze? No real experience with the bronze, but this is the bushing for the brake lever so I want it right.. Also, I don't have a small arbor press but I do have a 20 ton shop press. Worried about getting it in straight and aligned. Thanks again for sharing your knowlege and experience on this!

 

[OccupantRJ]

Some hints to help not beat yourself up. Make female parts first if possible, as male parts are easy to polish to size for perfect fit.

Make a pin about 6 inches in length that is stepped in size to provide a shoulder. The small diameter slip fits into the bushing, and the shoulder is used to push the bushing into place in a press. Make the small diameter several thou smaller than the ID of the bushing to prevent the bushing locking up on it during pressing. As Kevin said, ream after pressing.

 

[Kevin54]

If pressing it in is a real concern, make sure you use to flat blocks. I have a pair in my toolbox that have been ground flat and square all around just for the purpose of pushing in bushings.

Another thing you may want to do is turn maybe .125 or so back on the bushing and about .998 in dia. so it will slip fit into part "A". That will get it going in straight.

If part "C" is going to turn in part"B", and part "A" is going to be 1.000 dia., part "B" needs to be larger.

Here's a quick print of what I mean.

 

[Kevin54]

I would have reamed it in the lathe by itself, didn't even consider doing it after press fitting,

One thing that you have to watch about reaming in a lathe....if you use a 5C collet, or if you use a 3 jaw chuck, if the part that you are using is either in the collet or the jaws, you can make your bore oversize by doing it that way. If you have a part that you want a true bore, make your part out of a longer piece of stock that will be sticking out in the air. Drill it, then bore or ream it to size, then cut it off, then face off your other end. By tightening a piece in a collet or jaws, then if you bore or ream it while it is tightened down, once you take it out, it will expand slightly. When you work with slip fit parts, and especially if it is close tolerance slip fit, you want to machine as much in a free state as you can.

Another thing to remember, no matter what material you are using, if you are dealing with slip fit parts, heat expands in both a male and a female part. If something is real critical, let the part cool to room temperature then take a final cut. When I say critical, I mean a fit of .001 or less. If it is too warm to touch, then your metal is a few thousandths larger than it should be.

For the ones that may not know, when reaming a part, you are supposed to use some type of lubricant. If you don't use a lubricant and are lucky enough to get a halfway decent smooth hole, chances are the hole will be oversize. We used to bring a hole into tolerance by dry reaming using the same reamer we used to ream it with lubricant.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

PS:
Overlooked the modeling you have completed in Solid Works. Looks to be a very useful tool for the design phase of your work. Sketch Up has been my "go to" modeling tool but it looks like SW might be a better choice. Very nice work!

SW is light years ahead of Sketch up for 3D design work, and SW has a very nice set of tutorials that are great for getting up and running. I have used other CAD software at work, currently I use Unigraphics and I constantly wish I could go back to Solidworks full time. It's definitely the best trade off for ease of use/design capability of any CAD I've used.

To the OP. Excellent work, I've having a good time reading through it all. I'm a mechanical engineer and currently in the midst of a Tool and Die apprenticeship, so this is definitely right up my alley. If you have any SW questions, feel free to shoot me a PM and I will try to help.

Jim

 

[OccupantRJ]

If you are reaming bronze, it will most likely create a tight hole. It's the nature of the beast. If I am creating a bronze bushing, I ream the ID first, then turn the OD, due to swelling of the part during reaming. For those not familiar, there is a bearing bronze available with oil lube impregnated into the metal. Oilite is one name. There also are bearing bronze sections which already have a cored hole in the middle for the making of bushings. Known as cored plain bearing bronze. One source is Applied Industrial Technology

 

[deere2210]

Great info!! I'm reworking some SW models/sketches and figuring out the order of ops for everything.. Little behind the curve.. Trying to start the machine/engraving/powdercoating small biz.. Got a pretty big order (at least for me) and taking all my cycles this weekend.. be back soon..

 

[Kevin54]

Reported

 

[Kevin54]

Deere...In looking at your part drawing again, Part "C", you may want to switch materials all for the fact that if you have no way to grease it, and if it ever gets wet, a piece of cold rolled will rust. The same with any Allen bolt (hex socket screw) For part "C" you may want to use a piece of stainless. For hex socket bolts, go with a stainless. They cost just a few cents more per piece, but well worth it as far as looks and problems down the road.

 

[deere2210]

Deere...In looking at your part drawing again, Part "C", you may want to switch materials all for the fact that if you have no way to grease it, and if it ever gets wet, a piece of cold rolled will rust. The same with any Allen bolt (hex socket screw) For part "C" you may want to use a piece of stainless. For hex socket bolts, go with a stainless. They cost just a few cents more per piece, but well worth it as far as looks and problems down the road.

Yes, good call. I have some 304SS I used for the bottom of those wine stoppers I showed earlier in the thread left over in my pile. I looked at speedymetals.com and they have bronze (932 and 954).. Any recommendation on which one to use for the bushing? Both descriptions say they are for bearings, wear plates, etc.. Also, I'm going to pull the trigger on buying those two reamers. Was thinking of HSS for them.. I'm trying to get everything lined up and planned out before I turn the machine on.. I've learned the more you plan the better the end product.. Couple of those parts are going to be interesting to fixture. I bought some mitee bite t-slot clamps and thinking of building a fixture plate..

 

[deere2210]

If you are reaming bronze, it will most likely create a tight hole. It's the nature of the beast. If I am creating a bronze bushing, I ream the ID first, then turn the OD, due to swelling of the part during reaming. For those not familiar, there is a bearing bronze available with oil lube impregnated into the metal. Oilite is one name. There also are bearing bronze sections which already have a cored hole in the middle for the making of bushings. Known as cored plain bearing bronze. One source is Applied Industrial Technology

Just saw this.. I'll check out Applied Industrial and see if I can get a small piece. anything special in turning it?

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Great info!! I'm reworking some SW models/sketches and figuring out the order of ops for everything.. Little behind the curve.. Trying to start the machine/engraving/powdercoating small biz.. Got a pretty big order (at least for me) and taking all my cycles this weekend.. be back soon..

Order of operations is definitely a serious thing to think of when you're creating a model, in particular if it's something you are going to have to go back to later and revise. I often will end up suppressing existing features to add another feature to make sure it ends up in the right order on the feature tree.

Another thing to keep mind of when creating part models is how you place your planes and when you extrude sketches, if you extrude them in one direction vs the other vs extruding them in both directions equally. This doesn't always help when making the model on it's own, but will help out a lot when assembling parts into assemblies because you can select planes to mate up, rather than faces. The benefit to that is if you need to move a face relative to the body of the part, you don't have to follow up and move those parts in the assembly again.

 

[red92s]

Another thing to keep mind of when creating part models is how you place your planes and when you extrude sketches, if you extrude them in one direction vs the other vs extruding them in both directions equally. This doesn't always help when making the model on it's own, but will help out a lot when assembling parts into assemblies because you can select planes to mate up, rather than faces. The benefit to that is if you need to move a face relative to the body of the part, you don't have to follow up and move those parts in the assembly again.

Sage advice right there. Make your constraining geometry as flexible as possible. Planes, width mates, and mid-plane extrusions are great for this!

 

[red92s]

Overlooked the modeling you have completed in Solid Works. Looks to be a very useful tool for the design phase of your work. Sketch Up has been my "go to" modeling tool but it looks like SW might be a better choice. Very nice work!

Solidworks is easy to learn and use, but if you don't have a professional need for it, it's likely cost prohibitive. A single seat license will cost you several thousand dollars, plus yearly licensing. Once you get into assemblies and needing CAM capabilities, it pays off, but if you are designing widgets for around the home it's total overkill.

 

[deere2210]

Order of operations is definitely a serious thing to think of when you're creating a model, in particular if it's something you are going to have to go back to later and revise. I often will end up suppressing existing features to add another feature to make sure it ends up in the right order on the feature tree.

Another thing to keep mind of when creating part models is how you place your planes and when you extrude sketches, if you extrude them in one direction vs the other vs extruding them in both directions equally. This doesn't always help when making the model on it's own, but will help out a lot when assembling parts into assemblies because you can select planes to mate up, rather than faces. The benefit to that is if you need to move a face relative to the body of the part, you don't have to follow up and move those parts in the assembly again.

All good advice.. I've learned feature and sketch mirroring is your friend, and make sure planes and reference planes are aligned so that when you bring the part into an assembly it provides good reference for the first fixed piece. I have found it to be a huge benefit in constructing stuff. When I bought it, the local distributor had a buy 3 training classes and get 4 deal running.. I used my vacation time from my day job to go to the training class.. Still a ton of stuff to learn with it.. I know people go to the beach on vacation, but I march differently..

 

[deere2210]

Kevin, I'm looking online at reamers and confused on the one I should buy.. I'm assuming I need a chucking reamer (HSS or Carbide).. Looks like there is 4, 6, 8 flute types? Also, it looks like the come in .624 and .626.. I found one in .625 but they seem to jump around and prices jump up significantly.. Any recommendations? I need two reamers, one for final ID of 1" and .625"..

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Typically the higher # of flutes, the better quality the reamed hole will be. The .624 and .626 are referred to as "over\under" reamers (at least that's what we always called them), the idea is if you have a .625" dowel holding two parts together, you can use the .624 as a press fit on one side, and the .626 as a slip fit on the other side.

If you want an actual .625" they are out there, just keep looking around, HSS is likely your best best, that's all we ever used unless we had to open up a hole in a heat treated part, they we used a carbide.

And remember the reaming rule "Half the speed, twice the feed".

 

[Kevin54]

Kevin, I'm looking online at reamers and confused on the one I should buy.. I'm assuming I need a chucking reamer (HSS or Carbide).. Looks like there is 4, 6, 8 flute types? Also, it looks like the come in .624 and .626.. I found one in .625 but they seem to jump around and prices jump up significantly.. Any recommendations? I need two reamers, one for final ID of 1" and .625"..

You will find that prices jump depending on where they are bought. If you order a .625 reamer it will more than likely be a six flute and the 1.000 will be an eight flute. You don't really need a carbide reamer. They may last a little longer, but if you tap the tip and get a chip, you would need to get them resharpened. And if this is only something that you are going to use once or twice, carbide is not necessary. Check with Enco, MSC, J&L Industrial and go for a mid price reamer.

If you want a real close fit, have you done any boring and do you have a boring head? If not, invest in a boring head someday along with some boring bars.

If you don't want to spend the money on a set of reamers at the moment, I can send you a .625 and a 1.000 reamer to use. Just PM me your address and the particulars so I could get them in the mail.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Deere, the .624 reamer should work fine for you, because if I am looking at it right, you are planning a pin diameter of .615. That already seems like a rather loose fit to me anyway. Also, are you familiar with expansion reamers, and barrel laps? Expansion reamers are your friend.

http://www.icscuttingtools.com/catalog/page_194.pdf

http://www.acrolaps.com/index_003.htm

http://www.icscuttingtools.com/Reamers.htm#adjustable_hand_reamers

 

[OccupantRJ]

Just saw this.. I'll check out Applied Industrial and see if I can get a small piece. anything special in turning it?

Nothing very special in turning the material. Drilling can be grabby if the correct reliefs are not used on the drill.

http://bearing.firstbronze.com/view...bar/c93200-sae-660-bronze-bars-2?&bc=100|1002

 

[deere2210]

You will find that prices jump depending on where they are bought. If you order a .625 reamer it will more than likely be a six flute and the 1.000 will be an eight flute. You don't really need a carbide reamer. They may last a little longer, but if you tap the tip and get a chip, you would need to get them resharpened. And if this is only something that you are going to use once or twice, carbide is not necessary. Check with Enco, MSC, J&L Industrial and go for a mid price reamer.

If you want a real close fit, have you done any boring and do you have a boring head? If not, invest in a boring head someday along with some boring bars.

If you don't want to spend the money on a set of reamers at the moment, I can send you a .625 and a 1.000 reamer to use. Just PM me your address and the particulars so I could get them in the mail.

Thanks Kevin.. Sorry for the slow updates on the thread.. Life has been keeping me busy.. Let me see what I can work out on the reamers. I'll probably buy a couple.. I do have a boring head and have used it a number of times so as you mentioned that might be another alternative. I took some of the proceeds from some of my recent engraving and picked up a 5C collet holder for the lathe for smaller boring bars.. Really like it, works great.

 

[deere2210]

Some of what's been keeping me busy.. I turn the timing covers on the lathe, mill the latches, and powdercoat and laser engrave everything.. This set is going to a guy that is redoing his bike. He's repainting with a patriotic theme and putting my stuff on with it.. Still owe him a couple other things he wants I'm currently working on I'll post a little later..

 

[deere2210]

I had a set screw seize up when I took one of my axle covers off so I figured I'd make a new set since I just picked up a 5c collet holder and can now use the smaller boring bars. Pretty straight forward.. Still need to drill the set screw holes but no big deal on those..

 

[Kevin54]

Some of what's been keeping me busy.. I turn the timing covers on the lathe, mill the latches, and powdercoat and laser engrave everything.. This set is going to a guy that is redoing his bike. He's repainting with a patriotic theme and putting my stuff on with it.. Still owe him a couple other things he wants I'm currently working on I'll post a little later..

Fantastic looking work, no doubt about it

 

[deere2210]

Buying all the small stuff needed in the forward control build. Picked up a small box of 3/8-16 flat bolts and a 3/8 countersync. But there's a problem.... I thought if I bought a 82 degree 3/8 countersync it would work for a 82 degree flat bolt... The bolt arrives from McMaster and the head diameter is .725 and the the countersync widest is .375. Guess it's not as easy as buying 3/8 bolt and 3/8 countersync.

 

[sanddan]

When you pick the part you are going to order from McMaster-Carr there is a menu bar with cad listed. Picking that will show the dimensioned drawing and you can also download the SW cad file. Here is the link for a 3/8" by 3/4' long flathead screw.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#cadinlnord/91253a622/=jdjtv6

I use this all the time at work for design layouts. It can be quite a time saver.

 

[Kevin54]

Deere...in this pic it looks like you are using just a standard black oxide set screw. If it is, you may want to swap that out to stainless also. The black oxide screws, when exposed to the elements will rust rather quickly. And to just mention again, the laser etching is just over the top. Great work!!!!!

I did go back and look all through this thread but didn't see where you were laser etching an actual part other than showing the last few pics. Could you post up a pic or two of it in action? And out of curiosity, what does something like that run for the home shop. Ideas spinning in my head.

 

[deere2210]

Deere...in this pic it looks like you are using just a standard black oxide set screw. If it is, you may want to swap that out to stainless also. The black oxide screws, when exposed to the elements will rust rather quickly. And to just mention again, the laser etching is just over the top. Great work!!!!!

Kevin, thanks! that one one the right is the original from Harley, and mine on the left as soon as it came off the lathe.. To your point the set screw in the Harley one is seized in the hole, plus the allen head is stripped out. I bought 316 SS new ones from McMaster so those should hopefully keep the rust down..

Thanks for the comments on the laser etching! Really opened some new possibilities. I'll have to post some other stuff up I've done with it.. Can pretty much engrave anything except PVC, and cut's up to .5 plexi-glass like a razor, wood, etc.. I do some black on chrome too that looks really slick..

 

[deere2210]

I put new machined parts in a vibratory tumbler with ceramic media to deburr. Should I ream the holes to tolerance first and tumble, or tumble and then come back indicate the hole and ream? Alot easier to ream while it is in the fixture/vise first time, but not sure if it will mess up tolerances..

 

[NASTYZEN]

Some of what's been keeping me busy..

Those are sweet, turned out nice.
Why don't you engrave that kind of stuff yourself with your cnc mill?