Some Lathe Stuff

[deere2210]

Spent some time today building new mounting bracket and rough assembling the controls. Still need to turn a .25 1/4-20 piece for the plunger. In the pic I stuck a piece of welding wire in to hold.. My lathe won't hold a .25 piece so need to figure out a way to turn threads on it. I'm guessing collet closer is the preferred method for small stuff like that? Tried a hand die but with SS it didn't want to cooperate.. I tacked the brackets together, still need to finish weld tomorrow night..

 

[Kevin54]

Steve....If your lathe won't hold a piece of 1/4" material, take a larger round piece, turn it down to the diameter your lathe will hold, bore a 1/4" hole through it. After that, take the diameter piece you just finished with, and cut a slot through the side of it in the saw. You can now use this larger piece as a 1/4" collet.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Or you can take a long stainless bolt and use the threaded end, then cut off the excess and put a radius end on it with a belt sander.

 

[hunter1151]

What size bolt are you holding that footpeg on with?? How much thread engagement do you have??

 

[deere2210]

Steve....If your lathe won't hold a piece of 1/4" material, take a larger round piece, turn it down to the diameter your lathe will hold, bore a 1/4" hole through it. After that, take the diameter piece you just finished with, and cut a slot through the side of it in the saw. You can now use this larger piece as a 1/4" collet.

Or you can take a long stainless bolt and use the threaded end, then cut off the excess and put a radius end on it with a belt sander.

Kevin, didn't think of that. Got to figure out how to hold it to saw down the side.. I don't have a slitting saw..

Occupant, I'll check McMaster for the bolt option also..

Have you guys seen this: http://www.kalamazooind.com/products/5c-collet-fixtures/1cc-5c-collet-fixture-for-chucks/

I want to do some smaller stuff and have a set of 5c collets.. This looks like a quick way to use the collets without buying a collet chuck.. Thoughts?

 

[deere2210]

What size bolt are you holding that footpeg on with?? How much thread engagement do you have??

I'm using a 3/8-16 SS 316 flat head bolt. I tapped it as deep as the tap would go.. I've got 1.25" of thread engagement.. The foot peg is 3.5".. Would like to have gone 1/2 bolt but the master cylinder is designed for 3/8-16 through holes..

 

[Kevin54]

Kevin, didn't think of that. Got to figure out how to hold it to saw down the side.. I don't have a slitting saw..

Occupant, I'll check McMaster for the bolt option also..

Have you guys seen this: http://www.kalamazooind.com/products/5c-collet-fixtures/1cc-5c-collet-fixture-for-chucks/

I want to do some smaller stuff and have a set of 5c collets.. This looks like a quick way to use the collets without buying a collet chuck.. Thoughts?

If you have a small vise, clamp the piece in the vise and set the vise on its side and run the piece in your bandsaw.

 

[jason74]

Sounds silly but I clamp a smaller chuck in to the bigger one that is in the lathe then the workpiece into the smaller chuck. Works everytime.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Sounds silly but I clamp a smaller chuck in to the bigger one that is in the lathe then the workpiece into the smaller chuck. Works everytime.

Make sure you have the bigger chuck clamped TIGHT. A guy at work did that to polish a small part that the big chuck wouldn't hold, well he spun it up full tilt and ended up taking the smaller chuck in the face when it started wobbling and let go.

 

[SCAN MG]

Nice work. Good to see craftsmanship.
Wondered what type of measuring tools you guys use ?

fowlercanada.com

 

[deere2210]

Starting to look at the gear shifter side and thinking through everything. There is a splined shifter shaft used to transfer motion to the gear shifter. Not sure how to do splines (male/female) so looking at a keyway.. Haven't done keyways so that one is new to me too, but I'm guessing a little easier? The shaft is .625 and I drew it using a .125 key that is .375 long. For the keyway in the female part, use a push through broach and arbor press?

 

[Kevin54]

First off, you need a broach set to do keyways. Do you have a set?

If you do, you find the right sized insert for the hole and the size of broach that goes with it. You shove the broach through for the first step. Then you add a shim that is called out, into the insert. This sets the depth for the broach for the final operation. Once you shove it through, it is now to the correct size for your keyway. In the machinist handbook, it should spell out what sizes everything should be. I did have a chart that I copied off but I gave my notes and stuff to a friend that I worked with.

But bottom line for a keyway.......you need a broach set, the correct hole size, and the correct depth on your shaft for everything to mesh together correctly.

Now if you don't have access to a broach set, you can put a round keyway in. Is it the proper way to do it? Probably not. Does it work? Yep!!!

Assemble the part where you want everything set at and tighten down your arm on to the shaft. Drill a hole just a few thou smaller than the round shaft you are going to use as a keyway. Loosen the arm up, insert your round key and tighten everything back up. Where you want to drill it is so that the round key is half in the arm and half in the shaft.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Another way to do a homebrew key is to assemble the parts, then drill and tap a hole on the jointline. Install a long setscrew into the hole, and you have a keyed assembly, with a retainer, all in one. I have used this method many times on stripped motorcycle shifter shafts, when the shift lever would slip on the shaft.

 

[rmuell01]

Nice!! I haven't tried knurling on my lathe yet. I'm kind of curious to see how Chinese Knurls work.

They'll work once, then the wheels fall off...

 

[racingtadpole]

Another way to do a homebrew key is to assemble the parts, then drill and tap a hole on the jointline. Install a long setscrew into the hole, and you have a keyed assembly, with a retainer, all in one.

Not to hijack the thread, but thanks, that has just solved a completely unrelated issue on the other side of the world. .

 

[deere2210]

Another way to do a homebrew key is to assemble the parts, then drill and tap a hole on the jointline. Install a long setscrew into the hole, and you have a keyed assembly, with a retainer, all in one. I have used this method many times on stripped motorcycle shifter shafts, when the shift lever would slip on the shaft.

That's pretty creative... I wouldn't have even thought that as an option.. pretty slick!

 

[deere2210]

First off, you need a broach set to do keyways. Do you have a set?

If you do, you find the right sized insert for the hole and the size of broach that goes with it. You shove the broach through for the first step. Then you add a shim that is called out, into the insert. This sets the depth for the broach for the final operation. Once you shove it through, it is now to the correct size for your keyway. In the machinist handbook, it should spell out what sizes everything should be. I did have a chart that I copied off but I gave my notes and stuff to a friend that I worked with.

But bottom line for a keyway.......you need a broach set, the correct hole size, and the correct depth on your shaft for everything to mesh together correctly.

Now if you don't have access to a broach set, you can put a round keyway in. Is it the proper way to do it? Probably not. Does it work? Yep!!!

Assemble the part where you want everything set at and tighten down your arm on to the shaft. Drill a hole just a few thou smaller than the round shaft you are going to use as a keyway. Loosen the arm up, insert your round key and tighten everything back up. Where you want to drill it is so that the round key is half in the arm and half in the shaft.

I found the spec's online.. For a .625 shaft looks like I need a 3/16 keyway. I need to look at that as I need to drill/tap the end for a 3/8-16 bolt too. Gonna check Enco and some other sites and see what I can find on broach sets.. Something I have wanted to try as I have a couple other things where a keyway would be useful..

 

[Kevin54]

Another way to do a homebrew key is to assemble the parts, then drill and tap a hole on the jointline. Install a long setscrew into the hole, and you have a keyed assembly, with a retainer, all in one. I have used this method many times on stripped motorcycle shifter shafts, when the shift lever would slip on the shaft.

I forgot about doing it that way. I've done that quite a few times and it works very well.

 

[Spencyg]

In aluminum parts you can easily broach a keyway with a HSS bit chucked in a lathe with the part held firmly in the lathe chuck. You bring the saddle back and forth, never turning the spindle and advancing the tool into the component a couple thousands with each pass. Basically a makeshift shaper. It takes awhile, but works great. Youtube "keyway in a lathe" for better clarification.

The threaded setscrew "key" is more commonly referred to as a dutch key or scotch key. Details of this can be found in another thread on GJ:

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148470&page=4

(the above link illustrates some of the finest old school machining I have ever witnessed)

Nice work all around...I love the stuff I can make with my CNC's.

 

[red92s]

FYI, Solidworks will create standard sized keyways in parts via the Toolbox module (which you may or may not have, depending on your license).

 

[OccupantRJ]

Not to hijack the thread, but thanks, that has just solved a completely unrelated issue on the other side of the world. .

Otherwise know as the "butterfly effect".

 

[deere2210]

Couple pics finishing up the forward controls. I made the mandrel to push the bushing in, but I still think it went in a little crooked. It works, but could be better.. I bought some extra bushing so might do that one again when I get some additional time. For now, it works fine. Also, bought a broach set and did my first keyway. And, got a sheet of .062 nylon and laser cut some washers so they fit correctly.. Still need to finish deburring/polishing but pretty well done.. Thanks to all for the advice and pointers!!!! Hopefully, some day I can return the favor..

 

[OccupantRJ]

I don't think the bushing can be very crooked, the way it was done, along with it's depth. Did you ream it after pressing, as it WILL distort a little. Adjustable reamers are the ticket for custom reaming for a preferred fit on a through hole like this. The laser makes me drool.....

 

[deere2210]

I don't think the bushing can be very crooked, the way it was done, along with it's depth. Did you ream it after pressing, as it WILL distort a little. Adjustable reamers are the ticket for custom reaming for a preferred fit on a through hole like this. The laser makes me drool.....

I did ream it, but the shaft seemed to bind a little. I used some emery and it seemed to work. The laser has come in handy.. I have used it a lot for engraving but more and more cutting out templates or quick prototypes to get a first idea of how something might work. Just wish it cut metal...

 

[moonpool145]

Very nice work Deer. Quite impressed

Well done

 

[Kevin54]

One thing you want to watch out for is the broach going crooked in your arbor press. Just make sure you don't horse it down through there all at once. Myself, I like to get it started just a little, then back off to allow the broach to straighten itself up before proceeding. If the ram isn't perfectly flat or your parallels underneath perfectly flat, the broach will tend to bend or flex a little. It doesn't have so much to do with the broach making a crooked slot, but for what a broach cost, you don't want to flex it to the point that it may snap.

With the set that you have, did it come with shims or is it a one shot broach? All of the sets that I have used, you have to run the broach through twice. The first time you use just the broach and bushing, and the second time, there is an appropriate thickness "L" shaped shim that you drop in and broach it again. This makes the correct depth slot in your part. Just out of curiosity, what brand is your set and what did it cost? I wouldn't mind having a set for here at home.

 

[deere2210]

One thing you want to watch out for is the broach going crooked in your arbor press. Just make sure you don't horse it down through there all at once. Myself, I like to get it started just a little, then back off to allow the broach to straighten itself up before proceeding. If the ram isn't perfectly flat or your parallels underneath perfectly flat, the broach will tend to bend or flex a little. It doesn't have so much to do with the broach making a crooked slot, but for what a broach cost, you don't want to flex it to the point that it may snap.

With the set that you have, did it come with shims or is it a one shot broach? All of the sets that I have used, you have to run the broach through twice. The first time you use just the broach and bushing, and the second time, there is an appropriate thickness "L" shaped shim that you drop in and broach it again. This makes the correct depth slot in your part. Just out of curiosity, what brand is your set and what did it cost? I wouldn't mind having a set for here at home.

I did back it off to take stress off the broach and then go back down a couple times. I could tell the broach started to flex a little and didn't seem right so I was trying to be careful.. The broaches did come with shims they are in the tubes with each individual broach, so I ran it through twice for the 3/16 keyway. I bought a set of Dumont No 10 broaches from Enco. I looked at the imports that were cheaper, but I bought the USA made ones. $278 plus shipping..

 

[willymakeit]

On eof these days I will find a lathe/milling machine. Had a good lead but no response. Love the posts.

 

[Mud]

You do familiar work champ. Keep it up!

 

[deere2210]

This next one is probably more mill than lathe work but I'd go ahead and post.. I bought small micro switches for the Kill, High Beam, Horn, and Turn Signals. I really don't want to slot the handle bars to install them so figured I'd build a little billet box. Next problem was bolting the box to the bars.. Trying to put nuts inside the bars is a pain, and very limited wall thickness for tap. Current plan is to use the little jack screw like used to be used on old computer VGA extension cables. I mic'd the switches out and drew them up in SW and the box to make sure everything fit. As always, comments welcome..

 

[CarterKraft]

Be careful with those cast press plates on the HF press, they will explode in two or more pieces if taken to the limit.

Make some mild steel ones or buy some from Swag Off Road.

And I am really jealous of your tools and abillity to use them, nice work.

 

[OccupantRJ]

This next one is probably more mill than lathe work but I'd go ahead and post.. I bought small micro switches for the Kill, High Beam, Horn, and Turn Signals. I really don't want to slot the handle bars to install them so figured I'd build a little billet box. Next problem was bolting the box to the bars.. Trying to put nuts inside the bars is a pain, and very limited wall thickness for tap. Current plan is to use the little jack screw like used to be used on old computer VGA extension cables. I mic'd the switches out and drew them up in SW and the box to make sure everything fit. As always, comments welcome..

What is gained with the screws with the tapped heads, versus tapping the bars?

 

[Slick111]

You are not unscrewing the switch mounting screws out of the thin wall handle bars any time for maintenance work plus the the screws in the handle bars them selves can be red locktite in never strip or come loose easy.

 

[Kevin54]

You'd be better off making your own standoffs. The threaded portion of those is no longer than what is threaded into the bar. You also have to have a grommet underneath in the handlebar to pass your wires through. And with the length of the screws going into the handlebars, with vibration, you may end up with some shorted out wires.

Personally, I'd just thread the handlebar. You'd be surprised as to how much two threaded holes in that would hold. Add a little blue Locktite for added security and you'd be good to go.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Another option would be to cut a slot in the bars for the wiring, then use that slot to allow access to install nuts on the adapters. Algled forceps would insert the nuts, and the inner curve of the bars would negate the need of a wrench inside to hold them during tightening.

 

[Kevin54]

Another option would be to cut a slot in the bars for the wiring, then use that slot to allow access to install nuts on the adapters. Algled forceps would insert the nuts, and the inner curve of the bars would negate the need of a wrench inside to hold them during tightening.

Along the same idea, with a slot, it may give enough access to allow a pressnut to be inserted. You could use the slotted opening to hold the pressnut, then pull it up tight using a screw or allen bolt. As far as a grommet for the slotted hole, all you need is a larger grommet then split it. Or machine a grommet from nylon or delrin and press it into the elongated slot.

 

[racingtadpole]

Along the same idea, with a slot, it may give enough access to allow a pressnut to be inserted. You could use the slotted opening to hold the pressnut, then pull it up tight using a screw or allen bolt. As far as a grommet for the slotted hole, all you need is a larger grommet then split it. Or machine a grommet from nylon or delrin and press it into the elongated slot.

A riv-nut could be installed from the top, no need for a hole behind it. A smaller one should pull up to the radius of the tube ok.

 

[38D]

A riv-nut could be installed from the top, no need for a hole behind it. A smaller one should pull up to the radius of the tube ok.

+1...I am a huge riv-nut fan

 

[deere2210]

I need to look at the Riv-nuts.. Sounds like an option. I had thought about making my own standoff screws too, but using a single point threading tool, I don't think I can thread to the shoulder tight enough (#4-40, or #6-32). Is a press nut the same as a Riv-nut?

 

[NASTYZEN]

How about tig welding a bushing to the bars? Could be right through or even welded on top of the tube.
Sorry I hate riv nuts. Specially on something that vibrates.