Something I noticed at sears today.

[MagnumForce]

I just found this kind of funny, was at Sears in Toledo this evening, one I don;t frequent and a guy was in line in front of me attempting to get a Impact Driver replaced under warranty. The thing looked absolutely beat to hell and almost like it had been buried in the dirt. He had a receipt and the thing was 4 years old and 3 years out of warranty and he absolutely pitched a fit that Craftsman would not honor a warranty.

I felt really bad for the lady behind the counter as he was tearing her a new one and I stuck up for her saying that as far as I know power tools have never been warrantied for more than a year. He was an older guy as well, it was a very uncomfortable situation.

Do people really expect to beat things to hell as this tool was and for them to be guaranteed forever? I don't know of any manufacturers that do this for power tools.

Anyway just wanted to share.

 

[pepi]

They sure do and it is incredible that they expect any company to warranty a product when it is obvious it was never taken care of and abused ... he was an ******, they are all over the place these days.

 

[mrvm]

Do people really expect to beat things to hell as this tool was and for them to be guaranteed forever? I don't know of any manufacturers that do this for power tools

Well, short of beat to hell, Ridgid power tools have a lifetime service agreement. Registration in 90 days is required and can be done online.

 

[mike91lx]

Worked for sears and this happens 10-15 times a day. Can't tell you how many times I had people scream at me that the batteries to their 7 year old drill won't hold a charge any more and they weren't covered under warranty

 

[mike91lx]

Worst part is if anyone complained to corporate we would have to give them whatever they want. No matter how abused the tool was and how far it was out of warranty.

We used to have guys come in once a month with a big bin full of tape measures with the ends cut off. They would take everyone's tapes from the job site and cut the ends off and get brand new tapes once a month. Then I had 100s of people yelling when cman gave up with the tape measures.

 

[neophyte]

The way Sears advertises/advertised the Craftsman tools and their "lifetime" warrantee is part of the problem. This ad on Youtube has the slogan "Kid, when you buy a Craftsman tool, you only buy it once in your lifetime."

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/PNLm0bR8oMg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This one has "1,800 Craftsman hand tools, made in America, Guaranteed Forever"

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/EHDOv8xAWs4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I understand what retail sales people go thru, and that a person probably shouldn't expect a tool that's obviously been abused to be warranted, but Sears' Marketing department routinely ran ads that were deceitful or unclear about their tool warrantees, and they used terms such a "Lifetime" and "Forever." The average customer doesn't read the fine print under the warranty and a lot of sales people don't specifically mention it, even sometimes when directly asked. Add to that dishonest executives who use deceptive marketing or change warrantee policies over time and honest sales people have to deal with pissed off customers who feel screwed over.

 

[MagnumForce]

A Hand tool is not a power tool, the power tools have never ever had a lifetime guarantee and that is made very clear.

I should have expected this to turn into a slam on the big box with more American Made products than any other thread, can't mention Sears or craftsman without it.

 

[monomach]

The way Sears advertises/advertised the Craftsman tools and their "lifetime" warrantee is part of the problem. This ad on Youtube has the slogan "Kid, when you buy a Craftsman tool, you only buy it once in your lifetime."

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/PNLm0bR8oMg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This one has "1,800 Craftsman hand tools, made in America, Guaranteed Forever"

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/EHDOv8xAWs4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I understand what retail sales people go thru, and that a person probably shouldn't expect a tool that's obviously been abused to be warranted, but Sears' Marketing department routinely ran ads that were deceitful or unclear about their tool warrantees, and they used terms such a "Lifetime" and "Forever." The average customer doesn't read the fine print under the warranty and a lot of sales people don't specifically mention it, even sometimes when directly asked. Add to that dishonest executives who use deceptive marketing or change warrantee policies over time and honest sales people have to deal with pissed off customers who feel screwed over.

Both of those commercials specifically said HAND tools before the "guaranteed forever" part, though.

Seems like it's always old men who are guilty of not reading the damned box before buying the power tools. They all assume that they're lifetime like hand tools. I've never seen anyone under 55 argue that they have a "lifetime" power tool warranty for their 90s NiCad batteries at Sears.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Yea...it says HAND tools, but to the average Joe that means a tool you use in your hand, like a saw or drill....

 

[mike91lx]

oh i in no way blame people for getting mad when they change warranty policies, in fact those are the people i feel bad for because usually they are the people who were using the arranty the way that it was intended, usually the people who abused the system would say "well that was good while it lasted".

I had absolutely no problem replacing a broken tool no matter how old it was if it was being used properly, actually i loved seeing old stuff come in especially vintage ratchets and attempting to rebuild them to keep them alive. What im saying is craftsman needs to add some pecifics onto theor warranty policy if it wants to survive. Because what is ruining it was the 10 times aday i had to hand someone a new tool with a smile on my face after they cut their wrench down to make a stubby, filed their screwdriver down to make a pick, dug a ratchet out of the ground with a metal detector (happens a lot believe it or not), or cuts the end of their tape measure off because it was dirty and wanted a new one. Just before the cman tape measure warranty ended we were exchanging 7 to 8 tapes for every 1 we sold. Of course when the system is abused like that it is not going to last

 

[MagnumForce]

Sears was the only one who ever marketed the way they did as well so of course you don't see other tool brands with ads like that. Craftsman was the only one that ever had tool ads on TV.

Seriously, mention Sears or Craftsman and every thread becomes a bash fest. I simply do not understand it, go to Lowes, go to Home Depot, find any Husky or Kobalt stuff that is made in the USA other than screwdrivers. Now go to Sears and go holy ****, more than half of this hard line stuff is still made in the USA. Oh they are the devil for continuing to make all this stuff in the US still while outsourcing those evil sockets and ratchets and combination wrenches.

Now we are accusing them of being greedy misleading bastards in advertisements that are 25 years old?

 

[mike91lx]

And seeing that progress over the years made me very weary of the cman/sears buisness. And ultimately it did lead to my store closing and me losing my job

 

[MagnumForce]

oh i in no way blame people for getting mad when they change warranty policies, in fact those are the people i feel bad for because usually they are the people who were using the arranty the way that it was intended, usually the people who abused the system would say "well that was good while it lasted".

I had absolutely no problem replacing a broken tool no matter how old it was if it was being used properly, actually i loved seeing old stuff come in especially vintage ratchets and attempting to rebuild them to keep them alive. What im saying is craftsman needs to add some pecifics onto theor warranty policy if it wants to survive. Because what is ruining it was the 10 times aday i had to hand someone a new tool with a smile on my face after they cut their wrench down to make a stubby, filed their screwdriver down to make a pick, dug a ratchet out of the ground with a metal detector (happens a lot believe it or not), or cuts the end of their tape measure off because it was dirty and wanted a new one. Just before the cman tape measure warranty ended we were exchanging 7 to 8 tapes for every 1 we sold. Of course when the system is abused like that it is not going to last

It is a power tool, from the days of my grandpa who would be 90 Craftsman Power tools have always had a one year warranty, they have never ever ever been lifetime, they have not changed jack ****.

If you have something that doesn't have a motor on it feel free to replace away no matter how old, rusted and misused it is.

 

[mike91lx]

i wasnt talking about power tools, like you said those have always been guaranteed 1 year. I was talking about the tape measures

 

[mike91lx]

If you have something that doesn't have a motor on it feel free to replace away no matter how old, rusted and misused it is.

Ok i worked in management for a sears hardware store, which made most of our sales in tools. And i worked there for a long time. Over the years i saw the amount of tool abuse and misuse skyrocket, even lots of people buying from flea markets exchanging for new then selling on ebay. Every year the $ lost on exchanges skyrocketed and i lost my job because of it and you are saying thats ok to abuse the system like that?

 

[MagnumForce]

I am not saying anything about the flea market bucket people as I don't think that is right. I also believe the store has a right to refuse obvious stuff as well like ground or hacked off stuff.

I was talking more in line with torquing the hell out of something and breaking a flex head or something. The Warranty says If this Craftsman hand tool ever fails to provide complete satisfaction, it will be repaired or replaced free of charge. This warranty does not cover expendable parts that can wear out from normal use within the warranty period.

Take from that what you will.

Personally I have a hard time believe that the warranty really kills the bottom line that much when the same no hassle warranty brings a lot of people in the doors.

So that was the only reason you were fired?

 

[mike91lx]

exactly, i had no problem replacing a broken tool for it actualy breaking, even chrome sockets put on impacts stuff like that. I had a problem with the non legit stuff.

And yes between, the dropping in sales because of moving some production overseas, rampant abuse of the system, and rediculous amount of theft (we usually had about 5 sets of knipex pliers stolen to every 1 sold) had over 30K in theft the last year in a small hardware store, there was a huge chunk of our bottom line taken out. Obviously sears has other issues going on with the way the stores are actually run but these were some major issues. It seems like every year people got worse and worse, for you this was the first time seeing something like this but this was pretty much all i dealt with day to day. Honestly its part cman/sears/upper managements fault but is also the customers taking advantage. It seemed like as the years went on and on there were more and more peole trying to take advantage and less and less good customers.

When i first started working there none of these were issues, and my store always made a good profit.

And the store i was in closed up, i wasnt let go. I had about 35 employees that lost their jobs. Sad to see it happen but i saw it coming for a while

 

[monomach]

This isn't on the same topic, but the thread title works for it...

I noticed that my local Sears had 8 of these Wiha sets hanging from a peg now that they've finished the re-do of the tool department.

How bizarre. I'd certainly be ok with more German tools appearing at Sears.

 

[neophyte]

This isn't on the same topic, but the thread title works for it...

I noticed that my local Sears had 8 of these Wiha sets hanging from a peg now that they've finished the re-do of the tool department.

How bizarre. I'd certainly be ok with more German tools appearing at Sears.

I believe Sears has carried those sets for a while; i.e. Years. I may even have purchased the set of those I have at Sears. Some of the high end stuff Sears sells like Fluke and Knipex are also nice, but they don't always have the largest variety in stock. I believe Lowes actually carried a wider variety of Knipex.

 

[neophyte]

Yea...it says HAND tools, but to the average Joe that means a tool you use in your hand, like a saw or drill....

This. While the term hand tool usually refers to tools that are hand powered, power tools are sometimes referred to as "electric hand tools". The term "hand tools" is confusing.

 

[monomach]

This. While the term hand tool usually refers to tools that are hand powered, power tools are sometimes referred to as "electric hand tools". The term "hand tools" is confusing.

It's not confusing.

Anyone who confuses the two deserves to be that guy we ridicule for thinking he had a lifetime warranty.

Nowhere on the power tool display are the words "electric hand tools" used...at any store I've ever been in.

If I walked into Sears and asked every tool customer to give examples of hand tools, I'm pretty sure that on most days, I'd get zero guys stupid enough to name a power tool. While there are certainly some mouthbreathing windowlickers out there who'll do it, there's no way it's your average consumer. People that stupid don't get enough from their disability checks to buy tools.

 

[MN4x4]

To some degree I do believe that Sears caused this problem by their overuse of the name "Craftsman'. The name Craftsman was synonymous with 'Made in USA' and 'Guaranteed Forever'. Sears made sure of that in the way they advertised their 'Craftsman' products - whether it was true or not. And I believe they INTENDED to be misleading!

My story:

When I was a teenager I bought myself a fairly nice bench vise - I think it was probably a 4" one - for my 16th birthday. I spent my own hard-earned money on it. And it did, without a doubt, say the it was 'guaranteed forever' right on the box. That's one of the main reasons I bought it.

Fast forward 10 years from then - but back maybe 20 years from now. The base of the vise broke while I was bending something in it. I wasn't using a cheater bar or anything, but I remember that I was definitely wailing on it. But no worse than I had in the past.

I unbolted it from my bench and took it to the local Sears store (we only had one in town). The clerk refused to replace it for me, claiming that not only were vises NOT guaranteed forever, they NEVER HAD BEEN. That ticked me off, so I tracked down the store manager and gave him a (respectful) ear full. He instructed the clerk to sell me whatever vise I wanted for half price to make it right. I only had enough money to pay for a 5" - which was about DOUBLE what the price of my 4" inch had been - and I own it to this day. But you can bet I don't wail on it much. And I'll never buy another Craftsman vise. At least not a new one from Sears!

I have other horror stories as well. When I think about them, I wonder why I stuck by Sears for so long? I guess I'm a slow learner...but I *DO* learn. About 2 weeks ago I cancelled all of my accounts, killed my SYWR rewards accounts, and gave up on Sears forever.

 

[J.A.Varela]

I lived in Panama until I was 12 when the old man headed north to open a drywall outfit with his older brother.He dragged me along screaming and crying. I hated the fact that all those cookie cutter joints were so impersonal. It was like a bunch of slaves punching a card in a time clock for a check, delivered by some company, without knowing who they actually worked FOR. I still feel the same way. The drones with name tags and uniforms will eventually be replaced with robots that don't need to eat or **** and never get tired or sick.

Now I won't set foot in a store (or especially a restaurant-food related business) that doesn't have at least a member of the family working there.
I guess that's why I got the Hell out and came home 9 years ago.

Styx wrote a song called "The Grand Illusion". It should have been called "Gran Delusion".

 

[Pumpman1968]

Sorry to take MN4x4's story out of context, but, just stop for a minute and think about what he said..........

When I was a teenager I bought myself a fairly nice bench vise - I think it was probably a 4" one - for my 16th birthday. I spent my own hard-earned money on it.

I know we all ***** and bash sometimes......but how great is it to have OTHER people like MN4x4 and ourselves who bought stuff like a vise for our 16th birthday to ***** and bash WITH. This is why I come to GJ!

 

[MN4x4]

Sorry to take MN4x4's story out of context, but, just stop for a minute and think about what he said..........

I know we all ***** and bash sometimes......but how great is it to have OTHER people like MN4x4 and ourselves who bought stuff like a vise for our 16th birthday to ***** and bash WITH. This is why I come to GJ!

Aww, gee...and usually I just serve as a BAD example!

 

[GTO]

People are assholes,I've never seen anything Craftsman related say anything about covering their power tools for life.
The guy is just ignorant or very stupid and does not know the difference between a hand tool and power tool.

 

[koondog]

I agree that people take advantage of the warranty. I always tried to be fair with it myself. If I broke something through misuse, I never took it back. The hand tool description is what pushed me out of Sears and into buying only Snap On. I had a torque wrench that they refused to warranty because it wasn't a hand tool; It was a "variable drive implement" according to the stores I went to. Long story short, I eventually received a call from some vp of something in Chicago explaining why they couldn't/wouldn't replace it. It was partially my fault; I didn't read the fine print on the packaging. End result is I have almost achieved my goal of removing EVERY Craftsman tool from my box. Still don't understand how a torque wrench can't be considered a "hand tool" though.

 

[monomach]

I agree that people take advantage of the warranty. I always tried to be fair with it myself. If I broke something through misuse, I never took it back. The hand tool description is what pushed me out of Sears and into buying only Snap On. I had a torque wrench that they refused to warranty because it wasn't a hand tool; It was a "variable drive implement" according to the stores I went to. Long story short, I eventually received a call from some vp of something in Chicago explaining why they couldn't/wouldn't replace it. It was partially my fault; I didn't read the fine print on the packaging. End result is I have almost achieved my goal of removing EVERY Craftsman tool from my box. Still don't understand how a torque wrench can't be considered a "hand tool" though.

You replaced Craftsman with Snap-On because the torque wrench warranty wasn't lifetime? That got me laughing.

You know...when I had a Snappy torque wrench break, my dealer sent it in for me but it cost $63 for a repair because they don't have a lifetime warranty, either. They'll only warranty the head.

It wasn't really "partially" your fault; it was all your fault. Nowhere does it say that Craftsman torque wrenches have a lifetime warranty. It's not fine print on the box; it's normal print.

I can't believe you went out and bought Snap-On and made the exact same mistake that got you all worked up into a lather with Craftsman. If you want a lifetime torque wrench, I think your only options are Harbor Freight and Canadian Tire.

 

[Fretters]

It's not confusing.

Anyone who confuses the two deserves to be that guy we ridicule for thinking he had a lifetime warranty.

Nowhere on the power tool display are the words "electric hand tools" used...at any store I've ever been in.

If I walked into Sears and asked every tool customer to give examples of hand tools, I'm pretty sure that on most days, I'd get zero guys stupid enough to name a power tool. While there are certainly some mouthbreathing windowlickers out there who'll do it, there's no way it's your average consumer. People that stupid don't get enough from their disability checks to buy tools.

If someone mentioned wanting a new hand drill, what would you normally suggest?

 

[monomach]

If someone mentioned wanting a new hand drill, what would you normally suggest?

I'd ask them whether they want wheel style or speeder style. I've never actually heard someone use the phrase "hand drill," by the way.

 

[Fretters]

I'd ask them whether they want wheel style or speeder style. I've never actually heard someone use the phrase "hand drill," by the way.

You're one of the quirky ones then. I use the term quite frequently, and normally it has the opposite effect with most. I truly am referring to a hand drill when I say it, but most seem to think I'm referring to a hand held power drill, in the same manner which people assume a bench drill means a powered bench mounted drill etc. That's why normally I tend to refer to a hand drill as a hand powered hand drill these days. Not because I think it's correct, but simply because it's usually misinterpreted if I don't.

Is a speeder style drill what we would normally refer to as a brace?

 

[monomach]

You're one of the quirky ones then. I use the term quite frequently, and normally it has the opposite effect with most. I truly am referring to a hand drill when I say it, but most seem to think I'm referring to a hand held power drill, in the same manner which people assume a bench drill means a powered bench mounted drill etc. That's why normally I tend to refer to a hand drill as a hand powered hand drill these days. Not because I think it's correct, but simply because it's usually misinterpreted if I don't.

Is a speeder style drill what we would normally refer to as a brace?

I don't know if "hand drill" is maybe an English thing...?

The speeder style is indeed what would normally be referred to as a brace. As far as I know, the wheel style is also officially a brace. In woodworking class way back when, the teacher called it a "wheel brace."

I've never heard someone say "bench drill," either. Always "drill press." Even for the antique ones that required you to manually turn a wheel ("manual drill press" for that one).

 

[koondog]

I guess you missed the point Mr. Momo. I was commenting on the "hand tool" and how it can mean different things based on your point of view. I didn't run out and throw away my Craftsman tools and but Snap On. I replaced as needed. If they had just said, "Read the fine print", okay, on me, no dispute. My point was the referring to it as NOT a hand tool.
But I do thank you for reminding me as to why I don't post often.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I'd ask them whether they want wheel style or speeder style. I've never actually heard someone use the phrase "hand drill," by the way.

Hand drill (geared wheel)
Brace and bit
Tee handle from the olden days..

three examples of people powered hand drills.

a ""Bit"" different than

cordless (battery)
corded electric
air powered

two basic groups
too many options
to confuse someone who simply has a "drill"

 

[woody 73]

Eddie Lampert here (big Ed),

Ms. Tessmacher take note; it seems that some of the good folks on the GJ do not know the difference between Hand tool/******** must we educate everyone?

Say I like the idea "out of sight out of warranty" , maybe we can pitch that at the next shareholders meeting..

Keep those letters coming we love them, Ms. Tessmacher, what are we having for lunch today and is it served on on that recycled paper china from all those papers?

Your best friend Big Ed.

 

[slyonedoofy]

i wasnt talking about power tools, like you said those have always been guaranteed 1 year. I was talking about the tape measures

The chrome cased tape measures are still lifetime no matter what.

The yellow cased tape measures have the same warranty.

The newest red tape measures stated on the label that they covered everything except the tape.

Sears doesn't sell craftsman tape measures anymore so if you go in with one they will give you a different brand to replace and you are on your own after that.

I know this for a fact, I was a HI ASM.

 

[mike91lx]

Yeah that's what I was saying. They yellow/chrome tapes were lifetime. They tried for about 6 months the to make red taped that had a lifetime on the case but none on the blade itself but even that didn't work and they just quit making them

 

[slyonedoofy]

And for those that think "clicker type" torque wrenches are lifetime.

WRONG!!!

I have seen paperwork as far back as 1971 that states the same warranty that sears has today on them.

90 days calibration, 1 year warranty for breakage.

I don't work there now (sears management *****) but don't going thinking you got a garage sale treasure torque wrench to exchange.

Funny thing is that they had a craftsman professional sump pump with a lifetime warranty.
That through me for a loop when a guy brought on old one in and brought the new box up and he said he wanted to exchange.

I thought he was crazy until I read the box. I think this was the only lifetime electrical item they offered at the time.

 

[slyonedoofy]

Yeah that's what I was saying. They yellow/chrome tapes were lifetime. They tried for about 6 months the to make red taped that had a lifetime on the case but none on the blade itself but even that didn't work and they just quit making them

The red one had lifetime on case and spring. Just not the tape.

And you are right. Too many people snapped off the end of the tape just to get a new one.

 

[mike91lx]

And I'm not trying to say it is like this everywhere it's just what I saw over the years in my store