Something just clicked…..
- Thread starter Strouty
- Start date
Richard Cranium
Well-known member
flex duct maybe?
bczygan
Well-known member
Ceiling fan.
TractorJeff
Well-known member
I didn't read 3 years worth of this stuff but in my opinion based on the latest photo's you are out of Focus! Ask me as I was down to pathways around storage and projects! Need to get a handle on life's goals, then reduce the storage down to fit life! Don't know how young you are but you are 3 years older now than when this thread started. If you ever get to FINISHED and Functional! You will be even older!
Not wanting to be hard on you but life is passing you by!
Not wanting to be hard on you but life is passing you by!
bczygan
Well-known member
You have a point.
As long as we are working on the garage, we are not working on the projects in the garage.
But what's wrong with having the garage as a project? At least for now?
Like another GJ member who just died, we may just get the garage in great shape, and never get to doing anything in it, before we pass.
It is about the journey, whether that journey is the garage, or the projects in it, or both.
Bill
Richard Cranium
Well-known member
I no sooner get my garage where I can park the car in and that is as far as it goes. So Maybe come spring I can clean out enough room to get the jeep in also, Then I will start on the middle. then start in one corner and work around the edge. Got to have a plan and stick to it. Richard.
You are not being hard on me at all. I think what you say is perfectly correct for someone, just not for me. Over the last 3 years, I have done a ton of things, not all of them were fun or what I wanted to do, but plenty of them were. I don't think anyone truly can do only what is fun or what they want to do, granted I have more projects than I can finish in two lifetimes, but does that instantly mean I need to trash two thirds of them? As Bill said, sometimes it is about the journey and I think that is exactly what this is for me. Is the journey always enjoyable?, of course not. Does my situation appeal to most people?, probably not. Once the journey no longer fits me and my situation, then things will have to change, until then I am going to keep on the meandering path that I am on.
Based on what I can see from my NEST info, it looks like keeping the heat at 50 is probably the best way to go. It is still taking a long time to get up to 55, it has been an hour and a half and it is not there yet. So obviously I need to work on my ducting as I am wasting tons on energy by heating the upper areas of the shop only. The other day I reversed the ceiling fans because they were blowing air down and it was very cold feeling under them. I know the idea is to circulate the air, but with all the hot air up there, maybe I should put them back to blowing down?
The air intake should be about 30" above the floor to avoid ever grabbing a concentration of explosive gases. I think that is a big factor in your heating issues.
How much force does your furnace blower fan have? Mine will ruffle your hair 10' away from it. Most garage heaters I've been around are like a hair dryer, whoosh!
How much force does your furnace blower fan have? Mine will ruffle your hair 10' away from it. Most garage heaters I've been around are like a hair dryer, whoosh!
bczygan
Well-known member
Yes, do that.
The trouble with a forced air heating system, or moving air around with a fan, is that you feel colder because of the air moving across your skin.
Bill
Richard Cranium
Well-known member
Yes I think I was told at some time that the air had to be about 130 degrees before it would feel warm being blew by a fan.
Well in all honesty it doesn't feel that cold right now, but when I had the temp set at 38, it felt really cold. So I hope I have beaten the heating issues for now, at least I am going to work on something else and not worry about it. I am pretty sure it is going to be warm for the next week or more, so heating should be minor compared to this weekends cold snap.
I am totally going to admit that my original swapping direction of the fans was the worst idea ever. Seems like sometimes when doing something, I over do it, then it gets all confused. This is a perfect example, when I swapped the thermostat I also switched the fans, then we get a sudden cold snap. I start chasing the wrong thing and getting all worked up for nothing, had I swapped the thermostat and not touched the fans until after having the thermostat working correctly it would have been clear what the issue was. 
Sorry to rant, but I really was worked up about this, I am glad it is sorted out so I can start dealing with more important issues, like the speak and spell I just found.
Sorry to rant, but I really was worked up about this, I am glad it is sorted out so I can start dealing with more important issues, like the speak and spell I just found.
rmalkow2
Well-known member
Glad the you got the fans working for you again. I think the best direction is somewhat dependent on the building/roof/ceiling design, fan placement and overall thermal insulation of the room. In the end I think its good data that you tried it both ways and now know what works best for your place.
But right on about the speak and spell. You gotta get that baby working again. That's a classic.
PS. Got my new Cozy heat mat and it definitely takes that cold cement floor and makes it livable. Not hot at all but just stops the cold from penetrating to feet or knees. I like it.
But right on about the speak and spell. You gotta get that baby working again. That's a classic.
PS. Got my new Cozy heat mat and it definitely takes that cold cement floor and makes it livable. Not hot at all but just stops the cold from penetrating to feet or knees. I like it.
Glad that the cozy mat is as expected, did you get the small one or the larger one? I am thinking about putting mine on a timer and just let it run from 7am to 7pm, at first I kept forgetting to turn it off, of course now I keep forgetting to turn it on. I want to get the larger one for out in the shop, my electronics area is behind a wall that blocks the heat. The area is not really cold, but the mat will help in two ways, heat and anti fatigue.
As for the speak and spell, the only fix should be some "C" cell batteries, I thought I had some, but they were nasty from sitting so long. I guess I don't use "C" cells that often anymore.
Hope you all have a nice evening, I won't be back to the shop until tomorrow afternoon. I have a couple of classes at the Apple Store for my new iPhone. Those classes are great, once you get over the old ladies that are participating in the class with you. I took one today on iCloud, and it sucked, the girl handling it was rushing through and the three old ladies were so confused, pretty sure they will never use iCloud again. I did learn a couple things and that is usually what I get, just a bit more knowledge and some experience.
As for the speak and spell, the only fix should be some "C" cell batteries, I thought I had some, but they were nasty from sitting so long. I guess I don't use "C" cells that often anymore.
Hope you all have a nice evening, I won't be back to the shop until tomorrow afternoon. I have a couple of classes at the Apple Store for my new iPhone. Those classes are great, once you get over the old ladies that are participating in the class with you. I took one today on iCloud, and it sucked, the girl handling it was rushing through and the three old ladies were so confused, pretty sure they will never use iCloud again. I did learn a couple things and that is usually what I get, just a bit more knowledge and some experience.
rmalkow2
Well-known member
I got the small Cozy mat for starters as I don't have a dedicated spot for it but will move around the garage as needed for working in the cold. I agree on the heat plus the anti-fatigue may be more value.
Good luck with your iPhone training.
Good luck with your iPhone training.
Wanna Ride
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2010
- Messages
- 2,790
There it is!
I was starting to get concerned... I hadn't seen it around anywhere recently.
After my first 24 hour period with the heat set to 50, I brought it up to 55 for the afternoon, the furnace ran for 12.5 hours total. The first 14 hours was prior to changing the fans, it looks like it ran for longer spans during that time frame. Afterwards it seemed to cycle on and off about every half hour. I will be curious to see what the info shows for today, it has been fairly cold and I did not turn the thermostat up at all. I am only here for a few minutes to do some paperwork in the office, then I am back home after some errands. Once I get some more data, I can make a better decision on the 50 degrees versus keeping it lower and turning it up when I need the heat.
Once I have more data I will be able to tell for sure. The biggest issue is the tools and stuff are still 45, when I bump the temp to 55, they feel really cold. At the current temp of 50 they seem much warmer. I also think my stuff acts like a radiator, so it may be that I can schedule a time during the overnight to drop the temp and let it recovery while I am sleeping. Today will be the first time I have some real data that reflects the fans working properly and a full 24 hour period.
The latest data for the NEST shows 12.25 hours of runtime to keep it at 50. I am going to turn it down to 45, so I can see what the recovery time is when I get to the shop. If it only takes a little runtime to get the temp back up, then I should be leaving the temp lower. Essentially I am using a bit over 9 gallons of heating oil for the 50 degree temp. That would be a tank of oil per month and I usually make it through the winter on two tanks. Of course the last few winters I had not been in the shop nearly as much as I would like.
One thing with the NEST is that setting the temp below 50 is not allowed, you have to set away/eco temps or safety temps. I think it is a bit annoying for sure. I will have to investigate this, I am also certain that it will end up being a new learning curve. The thermostat was just now calling for heat, but I had the away setting at 45 and the temp was at 49, not sure why it was doing that? At least I can see the temp of the shop when the thermostat is off. I figure I will keep checking it and when it drops to around 40 I will try the away/eco mode again.
Wanna Ride
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2010
- Messages
- 2,790
Exactly!
I will try and keep you on your toes, maybe I can make a book called "Where's TXT?" for you.
The NEST was set to Eco temps being automatic, apparently I have a ghost, it thinks someone was here around midnight the other night, so it turned the heat up for them. At least the ghost was warm. I researched and found that I can turn the auto sensing thing off, then it will be all manual. Well, except the eco-temp is set for 45 and the holy **** everything is wrong temp is set at 40. I also still have the regular thermostat set at 38 as a just incase. By doing this (essentially setting the heat at 45) it has gone down to under 4 hours of running. Now the outside temps have also increased and I have not been there much, so I don't think my data is scientific. For now I will leave it like this and see how things work. I turned the heat up this morning about 9 AM, but when I got here it was still 46 degrees, I think this is because of the auto sensing thing and the fact that it thought I was gone and turned the temp back to 45. Now when I adjust things it will be followed to the letter because I took its ability to guess when I am here away.
That is about it, I have been taking more classes on my apple devices, fighting upgrade woes, and today I was just clearing snow from the storm we had. Once things get interesting again, I will add some more info.
The NEST was set to Eco temps being automatic, apparently I have a ghost, it thinks someone was here around midnight the other night, so it turned the heat up for them. At least the ghost was warm. I researched and found that I can turn the auto sensing thing off, then it will be all manual. Well, except the eco-temp is set for 45 and the holy **** everything is wrong temp is set at 40. I also still have the regular thermostat set at 38 as a just incase. By doing this (essentially setting the heat at 45) it has gone down to under 4 hours of running. Now the outside temps have also increased and I have not been there much, so I don't think my data is scientific. For now I will leave it like this and see how things work. I turned the heat up this morning about 9 AM, but when I got here it was still 46 degrees, I think this is because of the auto sensing thing and the fact that it thought I was gone and turned the temp back to 45. Now when I adjust things it will be followed to the letter because I took its ability to guess when I am here away.
That is about it, I have been taking more classes on my apple devices, fighting upgrade woes, and today I was just clearing snow from the storm we had. Once things get interesting again, I will add some more info.
That's my take on temps too. If it is around zero outside the odds of me doing anything in the garage are near zero also, so I set at 35. Once temps are in the 20's, I might be out there, so I go up to 40-42.
I now definitely will be out there tomorrow because the exhaust on the winter beater van did not make it through the winter. I am heating it with wood tonight up to 55 to dry it out, and Saturday will use the furnace to maintain 55-58 while I wrench on it.
Luckily, it is supposed to be 42 outside, so it will not bankrupt me...
I now definitely will be out there tomorrow because the exhaust on the winter beater van did not make it through the winter. I am heating it with wood tonight up to 55 to dry it out, and Saturday will use the furnace to maintain 55-58 while I wrench on it.
Luckily, it is supposed to be 42 outside, so it will not bankrupt me...
I am glad it is warm outside today, but it makes my "scientific" analysis of my thermostat even less so. I set it to 55 (current temp was 44) about 1 hour later it was at 50, going to check it again and see where it is at. On top of that, the settings that allow me to use the lower temps do not display any data in the history, it just shows that eco mode was on, so now I have no idea how long it ran yesterday after I set it that way.......... 
Now I am not sure what it does, seems like it does record data, but because it was so warm it never dropped low enough to start heating, the way they break up the data is over the 12 AM to 12 AM period so I don't get to see my full data until the day afterwards. I wish you could see it live or see it in your own time blocks.
Now I am not sure what it does, seems like it does record data, but because it was so warm it never dropped low enough to start heating, the way they break up the data is over the 12 AM to 12 AM period so I don't get to see my full data until the day afterwards. I wish you could see it live or see it in your own time blocks.
Last edited:
Hmmm, you are complaining that the heater didn't turn on in January?!
Want to add yet another thing to the thermostat wiring? I put an adjustable delay inline with my thermostat and set it to 10 minutes. Prior to that in cold weather it might trigger back on as soon as the cool down period ended, run 5 minutes, then repeat.
Now when it is 10 or 20 below, it is at least 10 on 10 off.
Want to add yet another thing to the thermostat wiring? I put an adjustable delay inline with my thermostat and set it to 10 minutes. Prior to that in cold weather it might trigger back on as soon as the cool down period ended, run 5 minutes, then repeat.
Now when it is 10 or 20 below, it is at least 10 on 10 off.
The delay is a good idea, my complaint was not knowing if it ran, the history data doesn't tell you what goes on until the next day, so I have until Friday at midnight, but not any of Saturday's data. It is like seeing only part of the puzzle, then seeing the rest the next day.
Firebrand
Well-known member
So did the weekend's variable weather skew the data?
Perhaps this upcoming storm would provide a more reliable period for testing?
Perhaps this upcoming storm would provide a more reliable period for testing?
I don't understand the NEST history at all. It says that the heat never came on at all from 4PM Saturday to 12AM Monday. Of course it also says that the shop is currently at 50 degrees. I have had it turned to ECO mode and that is set (confirmed) to 45 degrees. It makes no sense and I am about to pull the plug. I think it is running and not recording the info in the history.
rmalkow2
Well-known member
Was it cold enough to get down to 45 inside the shop last night? This warm spell may have held interior temp above 45? I doubt the Nest is lying to you. There may be other interior factors that caused it to remain at 50.
It doesn't seem likely that the temps would go up to 50 (without the help of the furnace), the outside temps were never anymore than 35 or so yesterday and the day before they may have been 40. I think if the shop truly is 50, the thermostat has turned on, of course I can't see the data until tomorrow morning. As for Sunday, it says I had zero hours of runtime.
Firebrand
Well-known member
Could this be residual heat coming from your equipment and vehicles inside the shop given the milder outside temps?
I guess, but I have never had the experience of the shop temperature increasing with the heat off (ECO mode). Even when the temps outside get above the inside temps, it takes a couple days.
I am not there right now, but it appears that if I shut off the automatic sensors the thermostat keeps things at 50, the app shows it heating right now at 50 degrees. It is really confusing to me and I think it is actually wasting more energy trying to make it work. I know it has driven me just about mad trying to understand it. I think I will just turn it off before it decides to crank the heat up because it feels cold.
I am not there right now, but it appears that if I shut off the automatic sensors the thermostat keeps things at 50, the app shows it heating right now at 50 degrees. It is really confusing to me and I think it is actually wasting more energy trying to make it work. I know it has driven me just about mad trying to understand it. I think I will just turn it off before it decides to crank the heat up because it feels cold.
OK, so here is the crazy thing, I just shut off the app and it now says the temp is 45 degrees. This is my last hypothesis and the only way I can prove it is to be at the shop for a day and actually watch it work.
ECO temp is set to 45
Emergency temp is set to 40
Second (original) thermostat is set to 38
NEST thermostat can't be "set" lower than 50
So I think that in ECO mode the thermostat won't kick on until the temp drops below 45, but the effing thermostat has to bring the temp up to 50 before it will stop, then it goes back to ECO mode, rinse and repeat. So I am actually wasting a lot of heat.
So it seems the best way for me to overcome this will be to set the original thermostat to 45 and remotely turn the NEST off, then when I want heat I can remotely turn the NEST back on. Someone must make a wireless enabled thermostat that will work down to 40 degrees, this is just silly.
ECO temp is set to 45
Emergency temp is set to 40
Second (original) thermostat is set to 38
NEST thermostat can't be "set" lower than 50
So I think that in ECO mode the thermostat won't kick on until the temp drops below 45, but the effing thermostat has to bring the temp up to 50 before it will stop, then it goes back to ECO mode, rinse and repeat. So I am actually wasting a lot of heat.
So it seems the best way for me to overcome this will be to set the original thermostat to 45 and remotely turn the NEST off, then when I want heat I can remotely turn the NEST back on. Someone must make a wireless enabled thermostat that will work down to 40 degrees, this is just silly.