South Bend Lathe - 9"

[cbacres]

Going to look at a 344A with a 4' bed later this week. Asking $1,000.00.
I will use it in my home shop, no real purpose in mind.
Some tooling, don't know exactly what comes with it, but I believe I could at least do some basic things with it as it comes. Single phase 120/240 volt motor.

Looks like it needs a cleaning, seller says everything works, clearing out his grandpas estate.

What do you think of this model. From my preliminary research, the A model is slightly advance for its age, I think it has a clutch.

The price sounds a little high, but not many choices down here.

I told my wife, if I can just get this, I won't want anything else. Hahahahahahhhhaahhhaah.
Thanks for the imput.

 

[yaidunno]

There wont be a spindle clutch on it, but it is the more desirable model. It will have a clutch mechanism for the auto feed, if that's what you were referring to? It should have the quick change gear box for threading/feeding. Depending on features (taper attach, collet rack, thread dial, cabinet) it might not be too bad of a price. People go nuts over the accessories for these things. A taper attachment will easily fetch $600 on ebay.

Condition, accessories, and tooling will determine value, in that order IMO.

 

[zkling]

It will boil down to condition and mostly tooling included. It is a very good home shop lathe. Do you know if it is flat or V belt drive? Behind bench or under motor location? If it is in good condition with a good amount of quality useful tooling it might be very well worth that. However if it is clapped out with just minimal junky tooling no.

 

[wb2vsj]

"seller says everything works" = i.e. go over it with a fine tooth comb.

What's the condition of the Bed/ways? Rusted? Pitted, Chunks missing near the chuck? I forget if that model comes with the the threading gears or a QCGB (Quick change gear box = desirable). If it comes with the gears, make sure they are all there as finding them is possible but $$

Take a look at the reduction gear ring near the spindle pulley. Any teeth missing there?

As the others said, if it comes with a boat load of tooling (3 or 4 jaw Chuck(s), collets and collet closer and taper attachment) and is is fairly usable condition, $1000 is a great buy.

 

[paulsomlo]

$1000 is reasonable for that lathe. Don't take the seller's word about anything, since the grandson probably knows nothing about the machine. And that also means he has no emotional attachment to it, which means he'll most likely be open to offers.

Check for a "ridge" near the top of the front most carriage v-way near the headstock, indicative of bed wear.

Be aware that the lathe is just the beginning - most of us have more in tooling for the lathe than the lathe itself.

 

[cbacres]

Thanks for the replys. I intend to look over very well. It's been sitting and hasnot been used for a few years.
You guys are spot on with your comments.
Here's a few photos, didn't have access to them earlier.

 

[zkling]

Unless there is a bunch of good tooling not pictured that is a bit high for the condition. IMHO.

"seller says everything works" = i.e. go over it with a fine tooth comb.

Seriously. Some of the item descriptions I've been told vs actual item condition were just really ONCE I recall when buying a box the guy couldn't have been nicer. Told me it looks worse in person than it did in the pics. I couldn't see it, but usually that is 180° form the norm. "Slight rust" --> Don't touch or it may fall through.

 

[organ]

I wouldn't pay that.

 

[yaidunno]

Next to no accessories, home made cabinet, small graduated dials, and in rough shape is what i see. Still a diamond in the rough, if your willing to spend 80-100 hours restoring it. I wouldn't pay much over $400 if i were in your shoes.

Keep in mind that a machine that's been sitting for that long will need to be gone through, cleaned, and re wicked.

 

[drivesitfar]

CB: probably wouldn't hurt to go take a look at it especially since you don't find them all that often, but i'm with the rest of the guys saying it better have a lot of quality tools in a few boxes to add to that old lathe if he is asking $1000. I'd probably be more willing to pay $2000 for a nicer one than $500 for that one and have another project.

that could be a great lathe, but it isn't now so consider your labor as a cost to bring it back to life. also if i remember correctly you are moving soon so i might look for one in the area you are moving so you don't have to move it twice and maybe there is one that a nice old guy will hold for you with a deposit until you move.

good luck in your search

 

[DenisG]

I've found as a good rule-of-thumb that the tooling ends up costing as much as the lathe itself. It's best to get one with as much tooling as possible.

 

[cbacres]

Well, I'm glad theres GJ to bounce things off of you all. Thanks for pointing all the pros/ cons of this. Kind off hard to say without looking, it's almost two hours away and I wish I could get a better answer what comes with it.

I also came across a 10" Rockwell, with factory base, extra chuck and a handful of tooling. It looks a little rough though. Asking $1100.00.

driveitsfar, I'm moving, but it'll be two years at least, and I have so much this addition wouldn't make much difference.
I am taking a trip to KY and IN in a few weeks, I've been trying to search theses areas also.

Yaidunno, when you say rewicked, would that be cleaning the oil passages out? Or is a machine this old have some sort of fiber to convey the oil to where its needed?

Stupid question of the day, I'm assuming a 9" lathe has right at 18" capacity that can be chucked up?

Thanks again guys.

 

[Steinmetz]

A nine-inch diameter object may be rotated and clear the ways. The chuck shown will not hold this.

 

[Deskmechanic]

Depending on what else comes with it, I could see $500-600 as a fair price. Those are nice lathes.

 

[sasquatch12]

As has been posted many times lathe and mill prices vary much by location.
The South Bend Model "A" in decent shape with about 30 inches between centers, and some tooling usually goes for well above 1 Thousand.

 

[paulsomlo]

Yaidunno, when you say rewicked, would that be cleaning the oil passages out? Or is a machine this old have some sort of fiber to convey the oil to where its needed?

Yes, there are two spring loaded wicks that convey oil from a reservoir to the spindle bearing surfaces, as well as other pieces of felt elsewhere, that enable lubrication.

I saw the Rockwell listed - if that's on the original cabinet with the motor down below, I'd take that over the South Bend. As much as I love my South Bend, the Rockwell probably has a larger spindle bore and is quite a bit heavier, both things you'll appreciate after you've been making chips for a while.

 

[Tejaas]

I'd say if you want a project, make an offer!

I'd like to add though, my preferred method is to do the research and decide on what your "dream" lathe is... Then stick to your decision with patience...

Spend the time your searching for that particular model rounding up your known "must have" tooling... That way your set up and good to go when ya bring the new lathe home.

Worst case scenario, some tooling comes with your new lathe that you can flip/sell/barter etc and recoup some of the cost, or trade for other stuff.

Even if it takes a few years to find the lathe, you'd have the benefit of doing the craigslist/eBay/GJ/PM classifieds scrubbing daily/weekly/etc.




~Tejaas~

WTB: Snap-On Orange Hard Handle SDD6 & SSDP63 in Very Good Condition!

 

[zkling]

Stupid question of the day, I'm assuming a 9" lathe has right at 18" capacity that can be chucked up?

Thanks again guys.

A lathe is sized, like a drill press among other specs in "swing". In theory you can swing a 9" diameter part over the bed ways. Note that is over the bed, over the compound you are going to be more in the ~3-4" max diameter. That is really a 2" and under diameter machine. Yes you can chuck up and face off larger pieces, but if you have plans of hogging out a cannon barrel from a piece of 6" dia x 20" long steel, look for a different machine. You need to find out what all tooling comes with.

 

[DenisG]

Stupid question of the day, I'm assuming a 9" lathe has right at 18" capacity that can be chucked up?

Thanks again guys.

No, the maximum diameter you can turn will be 9" (as Steinmetz said). If you have a 9" disk with a big enough center hole you can grab it with that chuck from the inside. Having a faceplate (if you happen to get one) is useful for many things, but figuring how to hold workpieces is half the fun of machining.

 

[NotStock]

As much as I love my South Bend, the Rockwell probably has a larger spindle bore and is quite a bit heavier, both things you'll appreciate after you've been making chips for a while.

^This. I love my south bend 9 too, but I'd give it up in a heartbeat for a heavier machine with a bigger spindle bore.

 

[Fretters]

^This. I love my south bend 9 too, but I'd give it up in a heartbeat for a heavier machine with a bigger spindle bore.

As with vices, there's no such thing as too many lathes. One could easily keep both and use them for different types of work. Besides, some people likely won't ever need more size on bore, between centres etc., but it is a pain when you do and the current lathe isn't quite large enough to cope.

 

[NotStock]

As with vices, there's no such thing as too many lathes. One could easily keep both and use them for different types of work. Besides, some people likely won't ever need more size on bore, between centres etc., but it is a pain when you do and the current lathe isn't quite large enough to cope.

The spindle bore is the only real issue for me. Just a waste of material to have to part off a chunk of material on anything larger than 3/4 stock.

I believe a heavier machine would be nice for the rigidity. Maybe I'm just bad at grinding tools, but chatter on parting operations in steel has always been an issue for me on my small lathe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cbacres]

You all about have me convinced to zero in on the 10" Rockwell. I like and agree with the added rigidity. Same deal, hours away and trying to make time to see it. I did get the model numbers, going to look into it some more.
I'm even toying with just waiting it out and get a 12", but that really jumping up in class and cost.

Thanks again for the input, I've learned some more.

 

[Fretters]

I'm even toying with just waiting it out and get a 12", but that really jumping up in class and cost.

One point to consider is that the overall size and weight of a lathe may jump up disproportionately once you get above a certain size. A 6", (12" swing), could possibly be shedloads bigger than a 5", (10" swing), lathe. Check you have room for it first.

 

[cbacres]

OK , its a Rockwell PM 414-02-651-5003 10" lathe. Haven't be able to find out a lot about it, but I think this has a variable speed control?
Looks like its a 1966 year machine. Include a 3 & 4 jaw chuck, two tool post, drill chuck and center tool for tail stock, some bits. And looks like some end mills in a box. Still not a ton of tools by far, but a start.
Lathe would need a paint job and a good cleaning and I'm sure lubed up.
I'm going to chew on it for a couple of days. You all think around $ 600.00 would be worthwhile? Assuming all works and not worn out.
Thanks

 

[Deskmechanic]

That seems like a great deal. Assuming it's not worn out, of course. If the condition is good (check the ways for wear) I'd say go for it.

 

[marinusdees]

Paint job only makes it look better. And you fell better?? And work the same.

 

[cbacres]

Found a couple of YouTube's of the lathes I'm considering. Learned more from 20 minutes of these than I have in he past here months. I found one on the Rockwell 10", same lathe, which is he one I'm leaning to. It does have the variable speed function and the bed is longer for capable size lathes.

Found a 10 K South Bend for $ 1,000. Excellent shape and a fair amount of tooling. Again, it's a a few hours away.

I'm agreeing with what you guys said about the Rockwell being more robust than the SB. I'll go with a machine that needs a cleaning and painting as long the mechanical is decent. Problem is, if its grungy, likely means it wasn't taken care of.

I'll just keep looking and researching for now.

Thanks for the imput.

 

[paulsomlo]

That 10k is a nice lathe - factory cabinet, large satin dials, threading dial, might be an original SB tool post. If the chucks are in good condition, that's a deal and a half. Based on his comment about having $2000 in it, I'd mistrust anything else he says, though. Unless he's in absolute dire straits, I doubt he's taking a $1000 loss on the machine.

 

[cbacres]

OK guys. Going to look at a couple soon. Other than the obvious, checking the ways, excessive movement ( or no movement )on the spindle, intact teeth on gears, all intended moving items move, please throw me any suggestions you recommend.
I'm not necessarily looking for a project right off the bat, what would be acceptable repairs for a 45 year old or so lathe?

I know it's a open question, just would like to double check what little I know so far.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[DenisG]

OK guys. Going to look at a couple soon. Other than the obvious, checking the ways, excessive movement ( or no movement )on the spindle, intact teeth on gears, all intended moving items move, please throw me any suggestions you recommend.
I'm not necessarily looking for a project right off the bat, what would be acceptable repairs for a 45 year old or so lathe?

I know it's a open question, just would like to double check what little I know so far.

Thanks again for the help.

Good advice for buying a used lathe from Dave Ficken:
http://www.mermac.com/advicenew.html

 

[sonvolt]

I would definitely stay away at that price for sure.....maybe $500.

 

[paulsomlo]

Although people go on about backlash in the crossfeed and compound screws, it's not that big of a deal. You can either work around it or replace the screws/nuts. But don't let it be part of the decision if you walk away from a machine. You DO want to move the compound and crossfeed through their full travel, looking for binding at the extremes of travel, an indicator of wear in the dovetails.

Try to watch some videos of the machines in question in use on Youtube, that way, when you go to look at them, you'll have an idea of what levers/knobs to operate to ensure against broken parts. Give all the castings a good look over for damage and don't pay too much - that's the best advice I can give.

 

[cbacres]

Good advice for buying a used lathe from Dave Ficken:
http://www.mermac.com/advicenew.html

Although people go on about backlash in the crossfeed and compound screws, it's not that big of a deal. You can either work around it or replace the screws/nuts. But don't let it be part of the decision if you walk away from a machine. You DO want to move the compound and crossfeed through their full travel, looking for binding at the extremes of travel, an indicator of wear in the dovetails.

Try to watch some videos of the machines in question in use on Youtube, that way, when you go to look at them, you'll have an idea of what levers/knobs to operate to ensure against broken parts. Give all the castings a good look over for damage and don't pay too much - that's the best advice I can give.

The Dave Ficken read really sums it up well, great detail and a great description on how to check the most critical areas. Funny you all mention the you tubes, I had been watching a couple of those, they were for showcasing a lathe for sale, but I picked up a lot on the different parts of a lathe.There a handful of videos just for people like myself. I wished I found them sooner.

Going back to the Rockwell lathes, anyone familiar with the variable speed on them. Looks really sweet and appears to work like my variable speed Powermatic drill press.
Thanks

 

[cbacres]

Went to look at it a few days ago and overall looks fine. The bed rails seem to be fine, no excessive wear, check the carriages movement back & forth after snugging down the carriage lock screw and backing off slightly. THe spindle feels tight.
the variable speed works. I downloaded a manual here and read up before looking so I'd have a clue when looking at it. Of course I left it at home. So I wasn't quite armed wih knowledge the way I should of been.
A couple questions: I couldn't get the carriage to feed, the cross carriage was though. The worm gear looked as if it may of been worn. The lead screw was turning. It was likely my lack of knowing the correct sequence. Is the worm gear a big deal cost wise? Are they still available ?
i also could not get the tumblers to move to different position/speed. Any known common problems here?

The lathe needs a good cleaning and lube. The seller is at $ 800.00. Has a 3 & 4 jaw chuck, face plate, two quick change tool holders, live center, drill chuck, hand full of bits.

i didn't have time to really spend on it and need to go back after studying the manual more.

What do you all think? Price too high? Potential problems?
Thanks

 

[drivesitfar]

CB: i can't really help much on the specific lathe questions, but I've been following this thread and it looks like you have several lathes you are looking at.
so the guys that know your answers don't have to ask this can you post the lathe you are now looking at for $800 and post any or as many pictures as you may have of it?

good luck and i hope you get a good one whichever one that may be

 

[paulsomlo]

Regarding the tumblers, sometimes you have to rotate the spindle by hand to get the gears in a position where they'll drop in.

A worn worm shouldn't keep the longitudinal feed from working.

If we're talking about the Rockwell, I don't know about parts availability. But there's nothing on that machine that couldn't be duplicated.

 

[cbacres]

Drivesitfar,
I had saved the photos from the CL ad, but they blurred for some reason, and the ad expired. Thanks, I hope I pick the right one also.

Paulsomio, thanks, that's the kind of info I'm looking for. Along as the tumblers are ok and I get the feed going, I think it's a decent machine. I did get to hear it run and go through some of the motions, no strange sounds or anything.

From what I've figuired out, parts are hard to come by, so I just need to make sure most everything is OK. I've also been posting on a couple of machinist forums and getting some more info there.

It does have a couple of quick change tool holders, they seem to be worth a little.

Thanks again guys.

 

[drivesitfar]

CB: still looking at old south bend or which machine? Make and model so we know if $800 is a decent deal? Good luck

 

[cbacres]

CB: still looking at old south bend or which machine? Make and model so we know if $800 is a decent deal? Good luck

Driveitsfar, the lathe I'm considering is the Rockwell 10",. This the one I've been discussing in the most recent posts. I plan on going back after we get home from vacation and spend some time on it, make sure the main parts are ok. I've been posting on couple of the machine post and have gathered good info from all of them. I'm feel fairly armed to go look and figuire out.

After spending some time on the other forums, this is home. It is lighting speed on replys and constantly up to date. Just a lot more actitivity and still excellent knowledge.
Thanks