Speed Vise Repair?

[Dave Bonzo]

First things first: I'm somewhat new here - hi! - and still learning the search function (I think it dislikes me, to be honest) so please don't vivisect me if I've missed an obvious thread/answer regarding my question. That being said...

I picked up a little 6" Speed Vise, yesterday. I probably paid too much for it - a few hundred - but it came with a free Powermatic 1200 so I think I'm ahead in the deal, overall.

Pictured: The dingus in question.



As best I can tell, the vise is in decent shape; it feels reasonably tight, the screw looks good, and although it could use a really good cleaning and a new set of jaws, it's functional as-is. The problem is that I'm a rather annoying sort of person, so the fact that someone managed to perforate portions of the base is driving me slowly insane.

Pictured: I haven't slept in three days.



I'm honestly not sure how this got mangled quite so badly, but that's water under the bridge; what I would like to know - $20 says that this is the part where I get vivisected - is what this portion of the vise is actually made from, and how to fix it. I assumed that the base was either grey or ductile iron, but upon using The Google, I found that Penn Tool describes it as a "semi-steel casting" which is not only a bit confusing, but outside the realm of my meager knowledge. As best I can tell from further usage of The Googling, semi-steel is kind of like iron and kind of like steel, but not really either one...so, I'm a bit stuck.

To clarify: I think I understand cast iron repairs (which means I probably don't understand them at all) and I'm reasonably sure that I can figure out a way to repair divots in steel (which means that I definitely don't know what I'm doing and haven't realized it yet) but how do I repair semi-steel when I'm not really sure what it actually is? Do I need to try to drill it a bit more to see what the metal looks like and then either braze or weld depending on results, or is there another method, aside from offering a fattened calf to The Old Gods and waiting for enlightenment? Should I just take it to someone who actually knows what they're doing?

Again, I know I can just use it as-is (and I probably should do that, since the drill press is ready to run, excepting the fact that it has exactly two too many phases listed on its motor plate, but that's a problem for another day) but I'd like to fix it...so any insight from here would be helpful. I mean, I don't want to waste an entire cow if I don't have to: those things are expensive.

 

[TailGunner3000]

I personally think you're overthinking it. Ideally you want to heat it, fill with nickel rod, and slowly cool. But because of the damage and relatively low value to the vise, I'd simply plug weld with whatever I had and machine-file-sand smooth.

 

[flushcut]

I would use it as is.
You have a vise in hand and if the "repair" goes south you have scrap metal.

 

[dr_clyde]

That’s a Cardinal Speed Vise. They’re the best drill press vise ever made, IMO. I’ve restored several.

One of the main features of these vises is the main slide plate that makes up the base is actually just a bar of cold rolled steel.

If you disassemble the vise you can just cut a new bar and replace the part with all the holes in it.

 

[tool_scrounge]

Or just disassemble the Cardinal Speed vise and flip over the plate on the bottom.

 

[jmarkwolf]

Or just disassemble the Cardinal Speed vise and flip over the plate on the bottom.

I have the same Cardinal Speed Vise (as well as a 4inch), that I bought at a pawn shop years ago for $30. See pic below. Agree they make the best drill press vises with the possible exception of the Heinrich.

That's what I did. Just turn the base plate over, or fabricate a new one, for a brand-new look!

Fill other drill hits with JB Weld. I ended up also replacing the bent screw and jaw plates.

 

[shawhite]

I understand the OCD of wanting it perfect but honestly if you actually use it you will inevitably make new divots. If it functions I vote for just use it

 

[exmaxima1]

That’s a Cardinal Speed Vise. They’re the best drill press vise ever made, IMO. I’ve restored several.

One of the main features of these vises is the main slide plate that makes up the base is actually just a bar of cold rolled steel.

If you disassemble the vise you can just cut a new bar and replace the part with all the holes in it.

And it's very easy to replace. Just a couple of holes.

 

[dr_clyde]

I understand the OCD of wanting it perfect but honestly if you actually use it you will inevitably make new divots. If it functions I vote for just use it

Not if you use it properly.

The Swiss cheese drill press table and vise is the mark of a careless and lazy machinist and it’s something to be actively avoided.

They’re not called marks of shame for nothing.

Accidentally damaging your tools ***** and it’s a point of pride to not have holes and damage to your machines and equipment.

Plus it can make using the tool more difficult and can scratch, mark or otherwise damage the work in ways not intended.

 

[Dave Bonzo]

Well, I haven't been vivisected...so, okay, things are looking up!

I guess this is what I get for not paying enough attention before posting; I had no idea that part could be so easily replaced or remade. That's much, much easier than doing a bunch of welding or brazing. I'm used to vise bases being fully cast and then machined flat, so this is definitely a win. Not having a mill - ...yet... - makes it harder to create a part, but I can either flip it for now and then figure out how to make the new one (I really should buy a mill, and there's a nice little one for sale nearby...) or get someone to whip up a replacement for me. I hate having things made when I know I can do them myself, but as I've just relocated and the vast majority of my tools are appropriately 3,000 miles away, I might have to phone this one in.

Or buy that little mill. Just sayin'.

The good news is that the Powermatic table is in really good shape; there are a few marks, but nothing serious. I plan on restoring that tool as well, not so much because it needs it, as to have a lower-stress project in my life.

I'll take a look at the Speed-Vise when I get home today; hopefully it's as easy to pull apart as it seems from the posts above. Many, many thanks for all of the input thus far.

 

[dr_clyde]

I mean, you clearly have a drill press. Should be all you need to make a new plate.

Just buy a chunk of steel from McMaster or whatever and pop some holes in it.

You could even take your vise apart, measure and mark out your holes, reassemble the vise and use it in it’s damaged form to drill the holes in the new plate.

 

[dr_clyde]

It’s literally an off the shelf size of plate. Should be no milling involved.

 

[Dave Bonzo]

It’s literally an off the shelf size of plate. Should be no milling involved.

Well, damn... that's even easy enough for me to accomplish. And yeah, good point: I do very much have a drill press, so holes in metal shouldn't be a problem at all! It's currently a drill press with too many phases stuck in its motor, but a VFD should fix that as soon as I finish selecting one.

 

[Dave Bonzo]

Pictured: Eighteen seconds of bolt-removal later...




That was much easier than I expected, although the smallest of the bolts - the one at the screw - was exceptionally tight. And as you guys predicted, the back side is pretty clean.

Pictured: Also, I now know what color this thing used to be.



So yeah, that means I don't have to do any crazy welding, which is a welcome discovery (the welding would have turned out badly). I think I can just look around for a piece of steel locally, and then cut it to size and make a new piece. Then it's just figuring out a paint match and de-rusting things, and fixing the jaws...so, that's most of the problems solved...he said, hopefully.

 

[seber]

That one looks excellent compared to mine. It was so bad the shop foreman discarded it into the scrap bin. It's been working just fine for the two decades since.

 

[larry4406]

Nice looking vise! I wish I had one for my drill press.

Found this parts list image showing the baseplate that as others have described and you have proved is removable and reversible.

Also found these links to new replacement baseplates.

Cardinal Speed Vise Replacement Parts

Get the necessary components to keep your Cardinal Speed Vise operating smoothly and effectively.

www.penntoolco.com

Cardinal Base Plate for No. 554-6BV Vise - 6BP

Find the best deals on the web here at Light Tool Supply for all your precision measuring and metalworking tools & machinery.

www.lighttoolsupply.com

Learned a new word "vivisected"

 

[Dave Bonzo]

Larry; thanks, and thanks for the links. Somehow, when I looked up the vise before, I didn't see "base plate" on the parts list...so that was my mistake and would have saved us all some time. However, I've now rectified that omission, and I've found that the cost of a replacement baseplate is effectively no more than the cost of shipping a small piece of steel to me so that I can make one. I looked around, locally, and I've had trouble finding a shop that carries stock that thick, and whom will sell a short section; I'm sure someone does and will, but I haven't run across them yet...so for $65, I can get that issue fixed. That's inexpensive, compared to spending more time calling, fetching and producing.

 

[Dave Bonzo]

Okay, follow-up question on paint. I've been looking at threads here and there, and it seems like these vises exist in a variety of colors; this one is a strange blue-grey that's hard to match, but I've seen black, blue, charcoal grey, etc. I also don't yet have a good system for painting (working on it) so I'm stuck with off-the-shelf solutions; any suggestions for a coating that will work well?

 

[dr_clyde]

I would advise against using a rattle can for a drill press or mill vise.

Soluble oil/coolant and cutting oils are surprisingly good for dissolving most common single stage paint.

I would do an epoxy paint or something designed for oil contact. I would go to your local paint jobber (for automotive or industrial coatings, not the paint counter at Lowe’s) and ask what products they sell for oil contact. They should be able to recommend something.

That said, a rattle can is cheap and can be re-applied later for little cost.

 

[Dave Bonzo]

That's what my concern was: I've seen a lot of paint dissolve and run when oil came into the picture. I was looking for a 2K spray can, but there's no such thing locally...at least not in the places I would expect it to be. We have several paint suppliers, but most of them are home/construction-focused; I'll take a look at the automotive sector. That's a good idea; thank you.

 

[seber]

Rattle can alkyd paint holds up as well as anything you can get short of urethane or epoxy. Solvents don't bother it. Mine is still original paint color. What little is left of it is battleship gray. Rustoleum makes a couple of alkyds.

 

[Dave Bonzo]

Slight update, which may be relevant to some.

I don't have the replacement parts in, yet, although they've been ordered...but I also don't have a delivery date. It's been five days since I placed the order and I did not receive a confirmation or shipping email, so I called Penn Tool to check on things. The short version is this: they have to call their own supplier to see about when the parts will be available...so I have no idea of when - or if - the order will actually be processed. They're checking into it for me, so kudos to them for that, but if anyone needs to order this kind of thing from them in the future, I suggest calling and verifying the stock or existence of the parts before ordering. I'm not in a huge rush, so it's not a big deal, but I had erroneously assumed that since their website allowed the order to go through. So: be advised...and - as always - be prepared to do it yourself if the company can't come through. I'm kind of waiting on that to be the response I get when they call back. Hopefully that won't be the case.

In more positive news, I found a machine/equipment paint at the local hardware store that supposedly works very well on metal; it's an alkyd enamel, as suggested, so I'll give it a try, as I still don't have a compressor setup that'll allow me to spray anything. The local automotive suppliers had some nice options as well, but all of them need to be sprayed...so until I can get that system up and running, I'm limited to practicing my brushwork. I couldn't find an exact color match, but I found two colors within the same line that should be pretty close when mixed in the right proportion...so I'm going to work on that, today.

Lastly, Evapo-Rust® eats paint. Quickly. Didn't know that.

 

[shawhite]

Why not just make the part. It appears to be flat bar with a couple holes drilled in it. The metal shop can cut to size if need be.

 

[tool_scrounge]

Lastly, Evapo-Rust® eats paint. Quickly. Didn't know that.

McMaster Carr sells the Cardinal Speed vise parts but you need to call and ask. They told me that when I called Cardinal a few years back.

I like molasses and water for rust removal as it does not remove paint.

 

[Dave Bonzo]

Why not just make the part. It appears to be flat bar with a couple holes drilled in it. The metal shop can cut to size if need be.

That's what I wanted to do, after learning that it's basically just a piece of milled-to-size stock...but I couldn't find a local supplier that wanted to sell me a small piece (or even one that stocked anything that size) and after talking with a few machine shops, they either didn't want to mess with a small piece, or couldn't do it anytime soon. Online, I can order the stock, but it's more expensive than the finished part after tax and shipping...and since I'm still getting my drill press up and running, I don't have a really good way to drill straight holes. So, ordering the part became a better option; I'm hoping to not have to do that so often in the future.

McMaster Carr sells the Cardinal Speed vise parts but you need to call and ask. They told me that when I called Cardinal a few years back.

I like molasses and water for rust removal as it does not remove paint.

Good to know! And there's also some good news on the parts; Penn Tool called ran down the order/supplier info and called me back while I was in the middle of typing this post...and the parts should be in hand early next week! Yay! They're only shipping from two states away, so it's basically two-day delivery. I still don't like that they had to verify the ability to complete the order after I placed it, but they made things right.

Also, I've never heard of molasses and water being used for that. Heard of it being used for rum, but not rust removal. Interesting!

Lastly, I was going to try to mix some paint and test it and post some pictures this afternoon, but I have a wicked case of shin splints so I'm going to have to stay on the couch with some ice, for a bit. Which means that I'll probably spend the time looking for used mills online in the hopes of finding one that I can afford. Outlook cloudy.

 

[larry4406]

Someone had mentioned flipping the plate over (scar side down). I think I would have tried that first.

 

[Firstram]

Someone had mentioned flipping the plate over (scar side down). I think I would have tried that first.

All day long!

 

[Dave Bonzo]

Someone had mentioned flipping the plate over (scar side down). I think I would have tried that first.

All day long!

Yep, that would have gotten it a bit better-looking on the top, but like I said, I'm a very annoying sort of person. The vise was perfectly serviceable as it sat, so I didn't really even need to take it apart. For that matter, I didn't even need to clean it; I could have just bolted it down as-is. That solution would have been inexpensive, effective and efficient...but it's not really to my preference. I like putting things aright and enjoying them, even if it takes more time and money.