Splicing 1/0 wire?

[gmtech]

Planning electrical service for my garage that I'm currently building. Planning to run 1/0-1/0-1/0-4 Aluminum MHF fed from my main panel inside house. Total run is about 150'. About 10' of that will be inside my house, so obviously I cant run the MHF inside. Is it possible to transition from the MHF to SER inside a 2'' LB? Will it physically fit? Split bolts? Polaris connectors?

Other option I have considered is a dual lug meter base so I don't have to enter the house at all, but Im having trouble locating a 200 amp base with an extra set of lugs?

 

[PCustoms]

Why can't you run MHF inside in condiut?

And no, splices won't fit inside the LB.

 

[gmtech]

I can do the conduit, it will just be a hard transition and hard to pull the wires, or so it would seem. No first hand experience doing so. Im dealing with a crawl space (No basement) so while that may be what I have to do, was trying to avoid it.

 

[LXCam]

Why can't you run MHF inside in condiut?

And no, splices won't fit inside the LB.

It's also not code compliant to splice in a conduit body.

 

[gmtech]

It's also not code compliant to splice in a conduit body.

Good to know, thanks! Guess that settles that LOL

 

[Norcal]

It's also not code compliant to splice in a conduit body.

It is if marked with the cubic inch capacity of it, but 1/0 would not be feasible to splice in a LB anyway you look at it.

 

[pattenp]

MHF doesn't come in 1/0. Sizes are 2, 2/0, 4/0. If using conduit for the underground run use 1/0 xhhw-2.

 

[Bretny]

Put a big 8in electrical box in the splice location. Thats what i did for my DB to ser splice.

 

[gmtech]

MHF doesn't come in 1/0. Sizes are 2, 2/0, 4/0. If using conduit for the underground run use 1/0 xhhw-2.

You are correct. Bare with me as I'm trying to wrap my head around all of this. The stuff I was referring to that I plan to use is 1/0-1/0-1/0-2 aluminum URD quadruplex placed in 2'' conduit.

 

[PCustoms]

You are correct. Bare with me as I'm trying to wrap my head around all of this. The stuff I was referring to that I plan to use is 1/0-1/0-1/0-2 aluminum URD quadruplex placed in 2'' conduit.

That cannot go into the house. Out a big junction outside and splice to SER.

 

[alfredeneuman]

You have multiple choices for splicing
An NSI Polaris connector, which doesn't need insulating (it's also the most expensive)

A split bolt connector rated for AL, that requires lots of taping with at least 2 types of tape.

And a splicer/reducer that also need taping though not as much, because of it's shape, as the split bolt.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You are correct. Bare with me as I'm trying to wrap my head around all of this. The stuff I was referring to that I plan to use is 1/0-1/0-1/0-2 aluminum URD quadruplex placed in 2'' conduit.

single rated URD not allowed indoors

 

[rlitman]

You have multiple choices for splicing
An NSI Polaris connector, which doesn't need insulating (it's also the most expensive)

A split bolt connector rated for AL, that requires lots of taping with at least 2 types of tape.

And a splicer/reducer that also need taping though not as much, because of it's shape, as the split bolt.

I recently used some of those when I replaced a taped split bolt connection. Instead of tape, I opted for 1000V rated heat shrink. The connections were much more compact. Still won't fit in an LB though.

 

[shaggyant]

I bought 1/0 USE-2 wire and ran them individually. I ran the portion inside the house in conduit. The 1/0 pulled fine in 2” schedule 80 with wire lube.

 

[pattenp]

I bought 1/0 USE-2 wire and ran them individually. I ran the portion inside the house in conduit. The 1/0 pulled fine in 2” schedule 80 with wire lube.

Sorry to say if it's just USE-2 single rated wire it's not fire resistant and is not approved for inside installation, even in conduit.

 

[shaggyant]

Sorry to say if it's just USE-2 single rated wire it's not fire resistant and is not approved for inside installation, even in conduit.

All the USE-2 wire I’ve seen was multi rated THWN as well.

 

[pattenp]

All the USE-2 wire I’ve seen was multi rated THWN as well.

That's a new one for me. I've never seen wire carry a use-2 rating with a thwn rating. Can you link to an example?
Edit: Are you thinking RHW-2?

 

[shaggyant]

That's a new one for me. I've never seen wire carry a use-2 rating with a thwn rating. Can you link to an example?
Edit: Are you thinking RHW-2?

Duh, yes. RHH and RHW-2. When I buy it as a single wire it always comes with all three ratings stamped on it. See my photo below.


https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=813542&d=1538016860

 

[pattenp]

Duh, yes. RHH and RHW-2. When I buy it as a single wire it always comes with all three ratings stamped on it. See my photo below.


https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=813542&d=1538016860

Okay you're good. That's the same wire type used to make up MHF.

 

[shaggyant]

Okay you're good. That's the same wire type used to make up MHF.

I don’t know what I was thinking with the THHN nonsense. I do find it strange I can’t find 1/0 MHF. Seems like 100 amp sub panels are common enough.

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/mobile-home-feeder/

 

[pattenp]

I don’t know what I was thinking with the THHN nonsense. I do find it strange I can’t find 1/0 MHF. Seems like 100 amp sub panels are common enough.

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/mobile-home-feeder/

MHF is only in sizes of 2, 2/0 and 4/0, besides 1/0 is 135A, 1 is 100A.

 

[shaggyant]

MHF is only in sizes of 2, 2/0 and 4/0, besides 1/0 is 135A, 1 is 100A.

Aluminum? 135 amps? Check again. Unless your circuit breakers and all associated terminals have a 90°C temperature rating. Mine don’t.

See this link for an explanation.

https://diy.stackexchange.com/quest...-100-amp-subpanel-at-the-end-of-a-60-wire-run

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Aluminum? 135 amps? Check again. Unless your circuit breakers and all associated terminals have a 90°C temperature rating. Mine don’t.

See this link for an explanation.

https://diy.stackexchange.com/quest...-100-amp-subpanel-at-the-end-of-a-60-wire-run

yeah he knows. he made a brain fart.

1/0 al is good for 120a...

 

[pattenp]

Aluminum? 135 amps? Check again. Unless your circuit breakers and all associated terminals have a 90°C temperature rating. Mine don’t.

See this link for an explanation.

https://diy.stackexchange.com/quest...-100-amp-subpanel-at-the-end-of-a-60-wire-run

Stating that 1/0 was 135A was a test to see if you were paying attention.

Wylie got it right that I had a brain fart.

 

[toplessHO]

It's also not code compliant to splice in a conduit body.

I believe that is only true for current carrying conductors

 

[dscheidt]

It's also not code compliant to splice in a conduit body.

It is if the conduit body is marked with a volume, and you meet the volume requirements. See 314.15 (C) (2) in the 2017 code.

You end up needing a bigger body than you otherwise would, but you can do it. You can even put a device in one, if you can find a suitable cover for it.

 

[Fasthotrod]

Other option I have considered is a dual lug meter base so I don't have to enter the house at all, but Im having trouble locating a 200 amp base with an extra set of lugs?

I was in a similar situation. The local power company had a list of approved meter cans, and only the 320A and above had dual lugs. Instead, I went with a 200A meter/main panel with feed-through lugs with the thought that I'd pass through to the house, then add a breaker or sub-feed block in the panel to feed my shop. So I bought this guy:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Square-D-16-Circuit-8-Space-200-Amp-Main-Breaker-Load-Center/1196613

Then I found one of these on eBay:

https://www.schneider-electric.us/en/product/HOML2225/circuit-breaker-sub-feed-lug/

It basically clips in like a breaker, taking up 4 positions.

The only "problem" doing this is that the meter/main becomes the service entrance point, with the neutral/ground bond. The house and shop become sub-panels, requiring some rework in the main house panel. (Remove neutral/ground in panel, install ground bar in panel, move ground wires to new ground bars.)

It's not the cheapest solution, but it was what made sense to me at the time. It was either that, or going with a NEMA 3R box with a terminal block mounted in it, and I just didn't have the space in the wall of the house for it without reworking a few things.

I ended up going in a slightly different direction at the recommendation of my POCO, but that's a story for another time. Good luck with your decision.

Mark

 

[gmtech]

Bumping this back up with another question/idea, hopefully it gets seen.

Would it work to use SER from my house panel to an outside 100amp disconnect, then from the disconnect to my detached garage with my MHF?

 

[pattenp]

Bumping this back up with another question/idea, hopefully it gets seen.

Would it work to use SER from my house panel to an outside 100amp disconnect, then from the disconnect to my detached garage with my MHF?

Yes.

 

[Norcal]

Bumping this back up with another question/idea, hopefully it gets seen.

Would it work to use SER from my house panel to an outside 100amp disconnect, then from the disconnect to my detached garage with my MHF?

You can but a WP can will probably be cheaper depending on what you choose.

 

[tyme2par4]

Bumping this back up with another question/idea, hopefully it gets seen.

Would it work to use SER from my house panel to an outside 100amp disconnect, then from the disconnect to my detached garage with my MHF?

As long as the SER doesn't go underground.

 

[gmtech]

No underground, but it will be unprotected in the crawl space. Roughly 4-6 feet.

Just now looking online, 100 amp disconnects are quite expensive. But an outside single 100amp breaker panel is only $60. Would that fly?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[gmtech]

What I'm trying to do is not have to splice SER to MHF. I'd rather use a breaker or disconnect to make things much easier for me. I originally just planned to run MHF all the way to my panel in conduit, until I found this (see pic) other option, is to go all the way up the side of my house and straight into the back of my panel with an LB. (See 2nd pic) with MHF, which would be easiest I think, but would not look very good. The house panel is located to the right of the window in 2nd pic. Hope this makes sense.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[Jim greengo]

The double lugs usually bolt on in place of single lug inside of meter socket,you'll probably need another disconnect depending on what your town requires.

 

[dcg9381]

Other option I have considered is a dual lug meter base so I don't have to enter the house at all, but Im having trouble locating a 200 amp base with an extra set of lugs?

You may be able to add a lug.. Have you looked into that?

From what I read MHF CAN be used indoors if rated for such. It appears that many MHFs are indoor rated (use your own due diligence) - Needs to be in conduit outside.

URD can be used also for indoor IF DUAL RATED. I think this is harder to find.


I just pulled 2-2-2-4 through 2", but relatively straight. Use 1.25" or better conduit, lube (there's a great foaming lube) - and a guide wire if you have a lot of transitions.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You may be able to add a lug.. Have you looked into that?

From what I read MHF CAN be used indoors if rated for such. It appears that many MHFs are indoor rated (use your own due diligence) - Needs to be in conduit outside.

URD can be used also for indoor IF DUAL RATED. I think this is harder to find.


I just pulled 2-2-2-4 through 2", but relatively straight. Use 1.25" or better conduit, lube (there's a great foaming lube) - and a guide wire if you have a lot of transitions.

MHF is a type of wire made by southwire and it is rated for indoor use but must be in conduit. the only place it does not need to be in conduit is underground because it is direct bury rated but conduit is advised for underground use as well.

 

[Bert_]

I don't get why everyone here is so quick to recommend MHF in conduit. If you are running conduit the whole way then just pull some xhhw individual conductors.

I would recommend MHF only if you intend on direct burial.

 

[75gmck25]

I think 2-2-2-4 AL MHF is recommended so often because its a readily available solution that is relatively uncomplicated if you buy dual rated wire by the foot. For example, if you need 70 feet you can just go down to almost any HD or Lowes and buy it off the reel. It is not always the optimal solution, but its at a good price point for a 90 amp feed.

Based on this site's prices 2-2-2-4 MHF is $1.17/foot, while 3 AWG copper XHHW is $1.02/foot. https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/xhhw/ I assume the larger wire sizes have a similar price difference.

On another note - I used SER and transitioned to MHF in a junction box at the exterior wall. Based on what I found as requirements for large gauge wiring, I found that junction box size for splicing is determined by the conduit, size, not the wires. This was one of the references I found. https://www.ecmweb.com/code-basics/sizing-junction-boxes

Bruce

 

[pattenp]

You need to compare aluminum MHF to aluminum XHHW in the same sizes. As said on wireandcableyourway.com a foot of 2-2-2-4 MHF is $1.17 but the price of the same 4 sizes of a foot of XHHW is $1.31. The MHF is more convenient to use since its a preassembled cable besides being slightly cheaper per foot. And as pointed out the MHF is normally carried at the big box stores whereas XHHW is not.

 

[Innovate1]

Correct me if I am wrong but from my reading on this the downside of MHF is that the wires are twisted so a bit harder to pull, especially if the conduit size is on the small side. Otherwise it seems like a good way to go - generally the cheapest and most readily available. The price difference given isn't large. Then there are the issues of needing conduit inside but both MHF and XHHW are the same in that regard.