Spray Booth Cleaning Services

[klinejon6]

Hello all! This is my first post on here. So thankyou for taking the time to read this post.

My question for all of you garage owners out there is, would you ever be interested in a cleaning service specifically for the paint booth? The purpose behind this post is to get.some feedback from real people, to determin if venturing into a cleaning field would be worth while.

The services that would be provided are: Filter and booth coating replacement. Intake and exhaust vent cleaning and filter replacement. Exhaust pit cleaning for down draft booths. Pressure washing, or hand washing of interior walls and floor. And booth light replacement.

Pricing is still undecided. Any and all comments, suggestions, and concerns are welcome. My goal is to offer the Philadelphia suburbs a service that will reduce downtime of the booth by offering services to work after business hours and weekends. I feel that a service such as this will increase productivity and help promote a quality paint job.

Thankyou all for your feedback!

~Jon

 

[rburke65]

Probably not...I don't own one but if I did I'm pretty much a do it myself kind of guy.

 

[David79z28]

I don't have a booth but I do paint. Due to the importance of cleanliness when painting I prefer to do everything myself.

Great way of thinking outside the box!!!

 

[4StarCstms]

When I did have a booth, we always did it ourselves. Sorry, as said, great idea - If you are in a area with ALOT of body/paint shops, you might consider selling a line of Filters, Paint Booth Parts (IE lights, Door Seals, Latches, Fans) and other Paint related equipment like respirators ... Would also probably be a good idea to get up to code on the paint booth laws in your area so you could 'consult' on what's right and whats not ...

 

[79firebird]

At my work we clean the booth befor each paint job and replace the filters every outher month. i my self dont see a market for it. its all fast and eazy to do. Outher local shops get the cleanup boys to do it

 

[caper150]

You might look into MFG facilities rather than body shops or small garages, like it's been said most the smaller places perfer to do it themselves. I use to work at a large mfg plant and we had over a dozen booths that needed to be cleaned weekly. At the time we were so busy that they hired a shift just for booth maintinance.

 

[UncleJoe]

Here is a tip: Take a day and visit 5 body shops and actually talk to the manager and ask him what he thinks. Then you will know if this is a brilliant business model or a pipe dream. In one day and you will know for certain if you should devote any more time to this. Why waste any more time than that. If they all give you positive feedback then you can go full speed ahead knowing that the idea is good. Why risk anything without proper feedback?

 

[sberry]

Very narrow customer base and once you clean one how long before it needs it again?

 

[ptschram]

I was the EH&S manager at a tier one supplier.

Our paint suppliers provided this service to us. Be aware that this is a pretty specialized field that is typically run by engineers with specialized training and experience. It's not simply going in and cleaning up.

We had a guy who consulted on our dirt issues, he had a PhD in air balance engineering with his emphasis on paint booth management. They called him the "Dirt Doctor".

Many of the environmental contractors provide this as a service as well. We typically used Phillips services-I believe they've been bought or merged with another company.

Do you have formal confined space entry/rescue training? LO/TO? Forklift (er, powered industrial truck) training? You'll need all of that and more to provide such services without getting into trouble. Not to mention, millions of dollars in liability insurance.

 

[Tazzman]

We use a comapny for our shop, They do 100% booth service from cleaning to fixing. We push them, we have 3 main booths and 3 prep stations. You can turn it into a buisness, you need to show owners how they can actualy save money having you keep them clean and compliant and mainly working 100%.

Our guys went from 1 guy to a crew of 4 they work all over San Diego County now. Judgeing from the new company trucks and equiptment they are doing well$

 

[Garmat]

I agree with the earlier post, cleaning spray booths is a specialized field. One note, spray booths should never be pressure washed as water and steel do not mix. Methods that inhibit rust are recommended.

Spray booths are highly technical and for optimal performance, air flow lighting and cleanliness are key. Performing any maintenance or cleaning tasks improperly can negatively affect this highly balanced system.

As far as making this business, it is a viable option just ensure you are properly trained.

Best.

 

[klinejon6]

This is awesome feedback everybody. I really appreciate it. This idea is very much in its infancy. With the only investment into it is time, and the mental energy to think or dream about creating a small business Haha. So all of this feedback is great! Keep it coming!

Thanks again,
Jon

 

[ptschram]

I agree with the earlier post, cleaning spray booths is a specialized field. One note, spray booths should never be pressure washed as water and steel do not mix. Methods that inhibit rust are recommended.

The booths at the factory where I worked were washed with a 50K PSI pressure washer driven by a HUGE electric motor.

They had water pumped through them at stupidly high flow rates. Everything was mild steel.

Stupidly high pressures are absolutely needed to remove dried paints. As many are still 2-K paints, it ain't gonna be removed by scraping.

 

[ZRX61]

I was the EH&S manager at a tier one supplier.

Our paint suppliers provided this service to us. Be aware that this is a pretty specialized field that is typically run by engineers with specialized training and experience. It's not simply going in and cleaning up.

We had a guy who consulted on our dirt issues, he had a PhD in air balance engineering with his emphasis on paint booth management. They called him the "Dirt Doctor".

Many of the environmental contractors provide this as a service as well. We typically used Phillips services-I believe they've been bought or merged with another company.

Do you have formal confined space entry/rescue training? LO/TO? Forklift (er, powered industrial truck) training? You'll need all of that and more to provide such services without getting into trouble. Not to mention, millions of dollars in liability insurance.

& people still wonder why jobs get moved out of the country. Are you ******** serious???
"formal confined space entry/rescue training" yeah, anyone with half a brain can do that, ya walk in the booth, pick up the guy who fell over & carry him out the door, formal training? get a ******** grip.

I've used booths to paint motorcycles, cars trucks & aircraft. At NO time did I need some guy with a ******** Phd to clean the damn booth... & that included one big enough to park a DC3 AND a Gulfstream in at the same time. FFS.

 

[Di Trut]

One note, spray booths should never be pressure washed as water and steel do not mix. Methods that inhibit rust are recommended.

What do you recommend for removing a booth coating? Booth coatings are designed to be removed by washing with water.

 

[ZRX61]

Wondering if klinejon6 & garmat actually know each other....

 

[klinejon6]

I actually have no idea who any of you are. I joined this site last night. I posted this for opinions and thoughts on an idea I have. I've been working in the autobody industry for the past 7 years. And booth maintenance is something that I have found to be lacking. Not because of my own personal laziness but because of my employers need to constantly push work out of the shop.

I'm not looking for this to turn into an argument by no means. I am however, looking for opinions, criticism, and support of any kind. I thankyou all for your opinions and i hope the ideas and comments on this thread can keep going.

Thanks!
Jon

 

[ptschram]

& people still wonder why jobs get moved out of the country. Are you ******** serious???
"formal confined space entry/rescue training" yeah, anyone with half a brain can do that, ya walk in the booth, pick up the guy who fell over & carry him out the door, formal training? get a ******** grip.

I've used booths to paint motorcycles, cars trucks & aircraft. At NO time did I need some guy with a ******** Phd to clean the damn booth... & that included one big enough to park a DC3 AND a Gulfstream in at the same time. FFS.

You weren't making parts for Toyota were you? The paint room manager would show us rejected parts and there was no way I could see the defects.

As for confined space entry, I conducted the fatal accident investigation at Bastian Plating in 1988. I will never forget the five men who died because they did not know the hazards to which they were exposed. The plant where I worked had huge vaults beneath the paint booths and a pit for the water wash. None were safe to enter without precautions being taken.

edit-more than 60% of the people who die in confined spaces are "would-be" rescuers...

BASF invested millions in this plant, it was well worth it to them to provide qualified individuals to assist us with maintaining our paint line. Downtime was calculated in seconds as the value of downtime was so high.

 

[tatra]

confined space is serious stuff............trained for it myself but unfortunatly the training is rushed and everyone passes................of course most in management will tell you the regulations are just " guidelines"............that is a ffs..........

 

[ptschram]

confined space is serious stuff............trained for it myself but unfortunatly the training is rushed and everyone passes................of course most in management will tell you the regulations are just " guidelines"............that is a ffs..........

As a result of the Bastian Plating accident, I pretty much dedicated my life to not allowing people to die in confined spaces. I've got almost 80 hours just in rescue training for confined spaces, rope, high-angle, technical and vehicle extrication.

I had some very good employers who paid for me to take lots of training. One 40 hour class and many eight and 16 hour classes.

FWIW, I'm helping a friend put together a mechanical contracting company working solely on sanitary facilities, bakeries, dairies, breweries and wineries. Each of his potential clients has demanded proof of safety training before they will even allow him on-site to bid. Fortunately for those of us who work or have worked in such industries, America puts more value on its workers with laws to protect than third-world countries where life is cheap.

I'm not trying to piss on anyone's campfire, but if one wants to go into such a business, it's a lot more than buying a paint scraper and hanging a shingle.

It's better to be prepared than to jump in and find out you've wasted money setting yourself up for a business you're not qualified to conduct.

Lastly, without suitable training, insurance will be near impossible to obtain and no one will let you in their facility without proof of insurance.

 

[klinejon6]

Where is a good place to look for safety courses that you are describing?

 

[Az Scooter]

You can find them on line. There are training companies that are dedicated to this. For what it is worth, Confined space training is an OSHA requirement.

I have a friend who cleans the booths that the f-117 is painted in. It is a wierd, wicked hard paint that is used in there.

As for pressures, typical paints are removed at 10,000PSI, and up, depending on the type of paint.

 

[ptschram]

Where is a good place to look for safety courses that you are describing?

University of Findlay has a GREAT program.

I took my 40 hour class there and an eight hour class as well.

State fire training programs also offer the same classes. Indiana has the Indiana Fire Training Institute, I'm sure Pennsylvania (I think you were in PA) has something similar.

 

[Tazzman]

http://sweetandsonsonline.com/Home_Page.php

basic website, They grew because of quality of work and work offered!

 

[ptschram]

These are the guys we used to clean our wastewater pit.

http://www.pscnow.com/

Good, but not the best.

These guys are the best I've used.

http://www.cleanharbors.com/

 

[ZRX61]

I have a friend who cleans the booths that the f-117 is painted in. It is a wierd, wicked hard paint that is used in there.

F117's were retired a couple of years ago. They aren't any flying.

 

[ZRX61]

You weren't making parts for Toyota were you? The paint room manager would show us rejected parts and there was no way I could see the defects.

I know about paint defects, vehicles I've worked on have placed in the Riddler & at PB. Aircraft I've been involved with are in museums & private collections all over the planet.
No one with a Phd was involved in any of them, except possibly paying the bill.

I'm familiar with "confined spaces", spend some time inside aircraft fuel tank or wing structure sometime. A spray booth with a door you could drive a Kenworth through doesn't make the cut in my mind after the contortions you go through getting in or out of the hellhole on a P51 or F7F etc.

 

[klinejon6]

Thanks for the websites guys! Much appreciated!

 

[ptschram]

I know about paint defects, vehicles I've worked on have placed in the Riddler & at PB. Aircraft I've been involved with are in museums & private collections all over the planet.
No one with a Phd was involved in any of them, except possibly paying the bill.

I'm familiar with "confined spaces", spend some time inside aircraft fuel tank or wing structure sometime. A spray booth with a door you could drive a Kenworth through doesn't make the cut in my mind after the contortions you go through getting in or out of the hellhole on a P51 or F7F etc.

I don't understand your argument. The company I worked for was a huge corporation that had a lot to lose from dirt in painted surfaces. Shutting down Toyota, Ford and GM factories due to inability to ship parts had serious implications for a big business that employed thousands of people all over the world. I know PhD HVAC engineers as well. I'm sure you find that to be grounds for ridicule. The guy I was apprenticed to for my A&P was a PE, I suppose that's overkill as well.

The federal regulations make no reference to the size of the confined space. A huge space could be a permit required confined space if the conditions were met. Those you described are likely permit-required confined spaces. You wouldn't let someone work on an airplane without a current A&P, you wouldn't use a red-tagged part, why would you ignore a safety law? The risks from violating are likely greater. The facility I was referring to had water-wash areas beneath the paint booths themselves that were very dangerous with multiple hazards and were definitely permit-required confined spaces.

BTW-in the mid-80s, I worked on what was at the time, the only flying A-model P51. Great fun. It was hangared in Versailles Ohio. It beat the Hell out of wrenching on yet another 172.

 

[ZRX61]

I don't understand your argument.

I could see the deal with large companies, but I don't think Maaco requires a Phd to show up & tell then how to clean their booth or operate the doorhandle to step in or out of it.. Besides, here in California it almost requires an enviromental impact report to be filed 2 weeks in advance just to fart. We can't even wash cars on the streets.

It beat the Hell out of wrenching on yet another 172.

Are you confessing to having a row of diamond shaped scars on your forehead? Never worked on a Cessna, about 75% of the work is 51's 10% T6/28's, 10% DC2/3 & 5% F7F

 

[JCQuick]

when I was in the Body shop equipment business we sold a bunch of paint booth filters most shop do there own.
Garmat was right about the pressure washing big no no unless its the concrete pit for a down draft but mkost of the time a shop vac works well.

I see Garmat only has one post must be a Garmat rep. they do make really nice booths
http://www.garmat.com/

 

[rburke65]

ZRX61, I think the name is "Ridler". And confined spaces are very dangerous. Safety classes every year at Gen. Motors.

 

[ptschram]

Are you confessing to having a row of diamond shaped scars on your forehead? Never worked on a Cessna, about 75% of the work is 51's 10% T6/28's, 10% DC2/3 & 5% F7F

Are there any more A-models currently flying? At the time, this one was said to be the only one in the air at the time-well, it was until John Gillie (I think that's who it was, he was head pilot for Fort Wayne Air Service at the time) scrambled the engine on its first flight after the rebuild. I got hired to help with the engine swap.

The guy who built the one I got to work on back-packed bits and pieces of his plane out of a swamp in Louisiana, an ice floe in Alaska and some more parts from some South American country where he'd found another crashed airplane to cannibalize.

The guy I worked for had perfected recovery of crashed aircraft from urban areas, rural areas, mountaintops, etc. In the few years I worked for him, we recovered General Aviation aircraft from all over the country. I learned a lot working for him. He was a fawking genius (at 15, he patented the fuel test valve used in most high-wing aircraft) but had poor social skills-he's still my friend thirty years later.

 

[Garmat]

Thanks for the Garmat comment. I am new to this forum and watching how things pan out.

The preferred method of cleaning includes adding a booth coat before using the booth - this allows the paint to peel off and/or scrape off.

A phd is not required for maintaining booths but technical knowledge mechanical aptitude is a must. Part of Garmat's success is the training we offer our distributors and their technicians, it keeps them up to date on new technologies involved in the proper maintenance of the booth.

 

[ptschram]

A phd is not required for maintaining booths but technical knowledge mechanical aptitude is a must.

Neither is a BA in business and chemistry to run a shop.

The gentleman I referred to may be an extreme example, but BASF keeps him on retainer and the interaction I had with him proved to me that he knew what he was doing.

OTOH, I worked with many "engineers" at the same facility who at best were high school grads.

 

[Vicegrip]

& people still wonder why jobs get moved out of the country. Are you ******** serious???
"formal confined space entry/rescue training" yeah, anyone with half a brain can do that, ya walk in the booth, pick up the guy who fell over & carry him out the door, formal training? get a ******** grip.

I've used booths to paint motorcycles, cars trucks & aircraft. At NO time did I need some guy with a ******** Phd to clean the damn booth... & that included one big enough to park a DC3 AND a Gulfstream in at the same time. FFS.

I maintain 7 spray booths in a large automotive collision center. The booths are drop bead easy to clean and maintain if you know what you are doing and do it. The rest of the system is another thing. There is a hell of a lot of confined space both between the booths and in the ducting and blower systems into and out of the booths. Try and just walk into the exhaust blower and needle scale 1/4 inch thick layer of paint off the blower and blades. nasty place nasty work nasty dust al while stuffed in some kind of hard to get into or out of position. You should see the BS I have to go through to just pull and replace a 15 hp blower motor. They are Garmat booths too BTW

 

[ZRX61]

Are there any more A-models currently flying? .

I'm not 100% sure, I think there may be 3?

There is a hell of a lot of confined space both between the booths and in the ducting and blower systems into and out of the booths. Try and just walk into the exhaust blower and needle scale 1/4 inch thick layer of paint off the blower and blades. nasty place nasty work nasty dust al while stuffed in some kind of hard to get into or out of position. You should see the BS I have to go through to just pull and replace a 15 hp blower motor. They are Garmat booths too BTW

That's why we used to have these things called "apprentice's"

 

[ZRX61]

Here's the last booth I was in:

This is painted on the wall at the back:

 

[fochsml]

When I did have a booth, we always did it ourselves. Sorry, as said, great idea - If you are in a area with ALOT of body/paint shops, you might consider selling a line of Filters, Paint Booth Parts (IE lights, Door Seals, Latches, Fans) and other Paint related equipment like respirators ... Would also probably be a good idea to get up to code on the paint booth laws in your area so you could 'consult' on what's right and whats not ...

Great recommendations. I was going to say the same myself. You may want to look into selling booth parts and filters, or even selling and installing the booths themselves. And staying up on codes is another great recommendation. The more you know about the product, codes and the industry, the better.

 

[fochsml]

I noticed that there has been a lot of discussion about the training required for cleaning paint booths. I'd like to reiterate what a few people have said in that it is absolutely critical that people are cautious when cleaning (and operating) a booth. Improperly operating, maintaining and cleaning a paint booth can, and does, lead to a fire.

For anyone looking for booth cleaning tips, we (GFS) have recently written a blog post that you may find helpful:

http://www.gfsboothblog.com/2011/02/top-5-tips-for-keeping-your-paint-booth.html

Also, feel free to explore our Finishing Academy paint booth training website, where we have all kinds of information available about booth design, safety, cleaning, etc.:

http://finishingacademy.com/refinish_training_home.html

Let me know if you have any other questions and/or feedback about these sites.