Spray foam insulation

[NES]

How does everyone like it? The pros and cons?

 

[anthony666]

pros; seals stuff up nice and tight, bugs & critters hate it, adds structural rigidity if needed, pretty 'permanent'

cons; seals stuff up nice and tight, big bucks, once it's in place there's no easy way to change anything (like if you wanna add an electrical box etc etc)

not sure what impact this stuff is gonna have on the environment in 20 years when all this new construction gets pulled down to make way for even bigger gaudier faux mansions .. i cannot imagine it is remotely recyclable

 

[Scott H in Wheaton]

The initial price is not attractive, but the ongoing cost can make up for that if you own the building long enough.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Con: If sprayed directly to the steel siding and roof how do you replace damaged panels?

 

[shortymgee]

Interesting thread. Subscribed

 

[3pedal]

I'm looking at putting in 3" of closed cell foam in the next month or so. From what I can tell, while expensive, it should really seal up my building. Since I have 6" deep walls, I'll still be able to put electrical in later for the interior of the shop. I do need to get the exterior outlets and lights up first.

 

[GYPSY400]

I'm looking at putting in 3" of closed cell foam in the next month or so. From what I can tell, while expensive, it should really seal up my building. Since I have 6" deep walls, I'll still be able to put electrical in later for the interior of the shop. I do need to get the exterior outlets and lights up first.

Regardless of what type of insulation you use, you should have all the electrical rough in done first.. inside and out.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

 

[Zurawskt]

Regardless of what type of insulation you use, you should have all the electrical rough in done first.. inside and out.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

I second that...... stuff is near permanent, if an electrician came in to give job quote and saw the foam he is probably going to quote you higher. I had the stuff sprayed in my floor joist box sills in my basement and the quote says 3-4'' sprayed but I can say the stuff is pushing really 5-6''. It comes out of the gun so fast that the guy spraying cant really keep it under 5'' effectively from what I saw, just JMO.

 

[BJR]

I have been kicking around doing it as a retrofit in an existing block wall as a DIY project. I'm not sure the benefits are quite there with the ribbing having a direct transfer affect. Maybe in combination with traditional framing and insulation it would help but I'm skeptical it's worth the cost.

 

[3pedal]

Regardless of what type of insulation you use, you should have all the electrical rough in done first.. inside and out.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

I agree in theory, but at this time it just isn't practical. I don't think I'll have much issue pulling interior electrical when the foam is up.

 

[Jbullfrog]

I have all my electric and air surface mounted inside and out. Pole shed with steel skin, 2" foam, 6" fiberglass, and OSB inner walls. We have added outside boxes and have no problem drilling through the foam. The fiberglass on the inside is the problem.

As far as damaged sheet replacement, hail doesn't dent the sheets that have foam on them. Wind doesn't bother the sheets that are foamed either. The only issue would be if something ran into a wall or a fell on the building, this can be avoided by trimming trees and putting in curbs around the building.

 

[CC1221]

NES - if you can justify the initial cost, I say go for it! I had my 30x54x12 done this past fall and LOVE it though it was NOT cheap. I do agree with the others about roughing in utilities before spraying, but I didn't worry about utilities due to surface mounting all electrical/plumbing/etc, but can see where it could be somewhat problematic if not surface mounting though I also don't think it's a deal breaker. I also agree with anthony666 about the possible con of sealing things up nice and tight. I learned how tight my building now is when I power washed my floor to prep for sealer. Had to run a dehumidifier for about 3 days after washing to get everything dried out enough to seal! If you go this route, plan for proper air exchanges (possibly mechanically forced ventilation) if you think humidity can/will be an issue.

Diesel Dan - From a damage replacement standpoint, my installer suggested putting up Tyvek or similar so the tin could be removed for replacement if necessary, but I didn't go that route. I did already have the double bubble **** installed under the roof tin when the building went up and we left it in place and sprayed over it just in case I ever do need to replace any roof tin. My thought was that damage to the roof (specifically hail damage) outweighed damage to the walls, but time will tell. JMHO!!

 

[Highbeam]

Replacement is one thing but how would you even know if you had a roof or wall leak? Wouldn't the water just sit there and rot the structure? Would the water just run down the insulation and maybe, if you're lucky, appear somewhere else on the building?

 

[luke7734]

I'm looking at putting in 3" of closed cell foam in the next month or so. From what I can tell, while expensive, it should really seal up my building. Since I have 6" deep walls, I'll still be able to put electrical in later for the interior of the shop. I do need to get the exterior outlets and lights up first.

Check out my building thread. I did 2" of closed cell (3-5" more like in most places) on my entire shell of my new building. check out my pictures with my infrared heat gun (post #108) The stuff is amazing!! I had 136*F difference from the metal outside to the inside of the foam last night. -10F with 40mph winds (-50F wind chill) blew my mind.. I had frost pushing through the panel seams of my 2" insulated garage doors. CRAZY!!

It's expensive.. but it's one of those pay early (insulation) or pay later (utilites) things. LOVE LOVE LOVE SPRAY FOAM.

I even used it to spray the ground and then covered my boiler lines underground for my wood burner.. 0 snow melt and it's only 12" in the ground. (post #27)

 

[Highbeam]

The stuff is amazing!! I had 136*F difference from the metal outside to the inside of the foam last night. -10F with 40mph winds (-50F wind chill) blew my mind..:

I bet the stuff is amazing but what's more amazing is that you had the interior of your shop up to 126F!!!!!

Obviously wind chill is not an actual temperature but a girly, "feels like" temperature.

I'm going to go read your build thread. I'm interested in your water filter too.

 

[Autorotica]

I had one foam contractor tell me they will not spray it on anything thinner than 22 gauge steel because it could warp the steel...

Anyone else heard similar?
Chris

 

[BJ42LX]

I had the stuff sprayed in my floor joist box sills in my basement and the quote says 3-4'' sprayed but I can say the stuff is pushing really 5-6''. It comes out of the gun so fast that the guy spraying cant really keep it under 5'' effectively from what I saw, just JMO.

What was the cost to have that done? And how big is your basement?

The local home-repair-on-the-radio guys love it and recommend that everyone have the joists sills sprayed.

 

[burhead]

I had the upstairs 900 sq ft addition above my garage done with closed cell foam 3.5" thick. The ceiling above the living area has 30" of cellulose and the ceiling in the garage (or the floor of the living area) has 19" of cellulose. The garage walls are done with blown in cellulose. I love the spray foam and wish I could have done it down stairs in the garage as well but that was another 4k over the cellulose. The only downside that I haven't seen mentioned is that it doesn't control sound as well as most other insulation. Another thing I have heard is that if you are spraying to tin you have to use a special foam or it may cause the tin to rust from the inside out. This came from a customer that was researching it for his pole building. I don't know if the extra cost of the foam will pay off financially but I did it more for comfort. My upstairs room holds it temp better than the underground portion of my home.

 

[Thumper68]

At some point I will be stripping my walls and having foam sprayed in, I wish it had been in the budget when I built it.

I may just buy a used set up and do it myself for just the cost of the foam, I would do a few more projects as well and then sell the equipment.

I had a friend do his shop and new house this way, but he bought new and the dealership that went with it and is now in business doing it, but for some reason he doesn't want to haul his equipment from Idaho to MN to do my job.

 

[luke7734]

At some point I will be stripping my walls and having foam sprayed in, I wish it had been in the budget when I built it.

I may just buy a used set up and do it myself for just the cost of the foam, I would do a few more projects as well and then sell the equipment.

I had a friend do his shop and new house this way, but he bought new and the dealership that went with it and is now in business doing it, but for some reason he doesn't want to haul his equipment from Idaho to MN to do my job.

That sounds like what I was going to do.. then I looked into a used rig.. $15k was the cheapest one I came accross.. and it needed a new hose. ($50/ft i think)
The guy that did my building started out that way too. He was building a huge 8k ft2 B&B and the owners bought the rig and he ended up taking it off the bill and now he owns 3 of the rigs and had about 4 celulose machinces with about 20 employees.. guy's driving a new truck every month.. But it's a nasty job too.. that foam comes out of that gun at like 160* i think. try doing that all day wearing a respirator in an attic in July.. no thanks..

 

[luke7734]

I bet the stuff is amazing but what's more amazing is that you had the interior of your shop up to 126F!!!!!

Obviously wind chill is not an actual temperature but a girly, "feels like" temperature.

I'm going to go read your build thread. I'm interested in your water filter too.

Looks at my pictures chief.. the temp gun doesn't lie.. I said the metal was -70* not the air..

 

[3pedal]

Check out my building thread. I did 2" of closed cell (3-5" more like in most places) on my entire shell of my new building. check out my pictures with my infrared heat gun (post #108) The stuff is amazing!! I had 136*F difference from the metal outside to the inside of the foam last night. -10F with 40mph winds (-50F wind chill) blew my mind.. I had frost pushing through the panel seams of my 2" insulated garage doors. CRAZY!!

It's expensive.. but it's one of those pay early (insulation) or pay later (utilites) things. LOVE LOVE LOVE SPRAY FOAM.

I even used it to spray the ground and then covered my boiler lines underground for my wood burner.. 0 snow melt and it's only 12" in the ground. (post #27)

I've seen a little of your thread, but have not gotten tot he infrared pictures. Will have to keep reading.

 

[Cjk]

I'm looking at putting in 3" of closed cell foam in the next month or so. From what I can tell, while expensive, it should really seal up my building. Since I have 6" deep walls, I'll still be able to put electrical in later for the interior of the shop. I do need to get the exterior outlets and lights up first.

You might want to look into correct application temps for closed cell foam. I know somwone who installs this and his opinion is that its too cold to get a good yield. I take that to mean the air bubbles are smaller and may affect R value along with using more material to get the same thickness of foam.

 

[Banjorear]

I thought I read somewhere that you can rent the spray foam machines and DIY if you are so inclined.

I need to do something to the roof line in a '60's "modern split" type home we just bought. The amount of heat escaping through the roof is friggin' unbelievable. The house is like an ice box.

 

[3pedal]

You might want to look into correct application temps for closed cell foam. I know somwone who installs this and his opinion is that its too cold to get a good yield. I take that to mean the air bubbles are smaller and may affect R value along with using more material to get the same thickness of foam.

I talked about temp with the guys when they are out. Once I have the building ready (and the money) the install date will float for temp. While it is silly cold right now, in Colorado we can easily have 50 degree days in Jan and Feb.

 

[matouse3]

I had foam sprayed in my home, upstairs when I remodeled. Amazing difference. Tight as can be up there, quiet and warm.

I also had the upstairs, and as soon as the bottom is roughed in, it will get the treatment too. Can't say enough good about it. It makes heating upstairs super easy, and the heat stays put.

 

[Dragster Racer]

Rembmering to when I had it quoted, s/f was about $2800 MORE to insulate my shop.
If I cut my heating bill $100/month, which would be almost half compared to standard R19 walls and lots blown in ceiling, it would tak 28 HEATING months to return my investment. December, January and February are the only real heating months here. So ten years before I see a nickle back. Wow! And I doubt that I would save that much. Most of my heating loss if from opening the door to move a project in or out or thawing a vehicle....which is a big heat sucker.

 

[3pedal]

Rembmering to when I had it quoted, s/f was about $2800 MORE to insulate my shop.
If I cut my heating bill $100/month, which would be almost half compared to standard R19 walls and lots blown in ceiling, it would tak 28 HEATING months to return my investment. December, January and February are the only real heating months here. So ten years before I see a nickle back. Wow! And I doubt that I would save that much. Most of my heating loss if from opening the door to move a project in or out or thawing a vehicle....which is a big heat sucker.

I almost agreed with you when I was looking at how to insulate. I've been in my place for a year, and looked at several different options. One of the big reasons I have decided to go foam is that it will seal up the building. I have a pole barn the previous owners built. While it will serve my needs, it wasn't designed for it, and one of the things they didn't work too hard on was sealing it up against the winds.

I did consider the payback, but with some different assumptions.

*First, while I am only 41, I think this is a house I could stay in for the duration, so a longer payback could be acceptable.
*Living out of the big new master developments is great, but it does mean I am on propane for heat, so my cost to heat the building is higher than those of you on Natural Gas.
*I expect heating prices to continue to climb
*Right now, the building only has a wood burning stove. Until I put in some kind of furnace or pellet stove, it will only get new heat added when I build a fire. The longer it can hold heat, the better.
*Being a pole bard, I don't have the interior structure to put traditional rolled insulation. So it isn't just the cost of the insulation, but the cost of the framing. I have an interior wall that divides the building. That one will get traditional R19, since the framing is there, and I don't need to seal the wall. I also have to drywall it though, as other wise, either the mice, or the organic mouse trap (aka shop cat) will most likely tear into it. I don't have to skin the rest of the interior of the garage just yet.

So, while the insulation is more expensive than traditional on the face of it, I believe for me, the check I need to write in the next month or so will be lower than traditional. I am not ready to finish out the building, as I don't have the time or cash for everything.

One of the great things about the free market is there are multiple solutions for problems, and often they all make sense for different people. If I had a more traditional garage, I think I would just put in R19 and call it a day.

 

[mikeytint]

I had closed cell done on my crawlspace and it kept my floor warmer than it was when i had regular glass insulation . As a side benefit when Sandy put over 2ft of water in my home it saved my subfloors and floor joists from getting destroyed. I have since had the first 4ft of the house done before rebuiding and it has stopped all those little drafts. Ihave noticed a big difference in how much less drafty it feels. wish i could have done all the way to ceiling.

 

[kj_mustang]

3pedal,

If you plan on leaving the spray foamed walls exposed (uncovered) for awhile, I highly recommend you have the installer add the fire retardant to the mix. Most spray foam is flammable.

 

[3pedal]

3pedal,

If you plan on leaving the spray foamed walls exposed (uncovered) for awhile, I highly recommend you have the installer add the fire retardant to the mix. Most spray foam is flammable.

I'll be sure to talk to him about it. Some walls will be exposed for a year or two. The roof might be for longer.

 

[Streetbu]

If you're going to spray foam a house you will most likely run into a mold issue in a few years. Garages are different because of the massive doors that allow fresh air entry. Google it. The foam works SO WELL at keeping drafts out that the air becomes stale and you will get mold usually in the basement area. They make special air exchangers that preheat outside air before blowing it into the house. They are usually set on a timer and run for 5-15 minutes once per hour.

 

[Fun pain]

fiberglassing the inside of foam.... is kidda like putting the vapor barrier on the outside of the building.....depending on where you live, Bad idea

 

[kd4pbs]

First post (I think; I donno - I've been registered here a while; may have talked about my generator install a while back?)... Oops - yep - my 10th post... yay me! -- too bad I forgot about the other stuff I posted; getting old ***** sometimes!
I'm almost done having a 36x32x14 downstairs, 36x20x9, pitched (taking into account the 4' knee wall) upstairs garage/rec room. The upstairs will be finished, and I'll be using the spray foam to insulate the roof/upstairs, then finishing with sheetrock. This will have the added benefit of giving insulated storage space behind the knee wall (do the math; I think the roof is on a 9/12 pitch - or something close). Downstairs in the business side of the garage, I'll be utilizing fiberglass in the walls. The contractor I'm using on this build mentioned the foam as being superior, as he used it in a very similar garage/loft he built (I think it's slightly larger, maybe 4 feet or so in length) and rents it out. He heats & cools the upstairs (Central NC area) with about 9000 BTU of mini split, and says he can easily keep it comfy. Researching the heck out of the foam, and his word that he can put it in for me at only 1.5x the cost of fiberglass, I'm going that route, even though my other choice would be to save the installation money and put fiberglass in myself. The thing that sells me most on it is that it seals everything up so well, but I'll still be able to "breathe" in some fresh air from the garage.

 

[aardquark]

fiberglassing the inside of foam.... is kidda like putting the vapor barrier on the outside of the building.....depending on where you live, Bad idea

Not necessarily a bad idea. A vapor barrier has (nearly) zero thickness, so there is no appreciable temperature gradient through the material. But when using foam, the idea is that even though it is a vapor barrier (for closed cell), there is a thickness, there is a (large) temperature gradient through the material, and (hopefully) the dew point falls inside the foam, so you avoid a condensation problem. As long as most of the insulating value is still provided by the foam, adding fiberglass on the inside should not produce a condensation problem. You need to keep the inside surface of the foam above the dew point temperature. This is fairly easy to meet, as long is there is enough heat on the inside surface. For example, at 60 deg F inside temperature and a relative humidity of 35%, we need to keep the inside surface above 32 deg to avoid condensation. If the outside temperature is 0 F, then we would need the R-value of the fiberglass to be nearly that of the foam to meet that condition. Simple rule of thumb: Don't have more than a third of the total R-value in fiberglass (if you have foam on the outside). Of course, each situation has to evaluated on its own merits, considering climate, materials, etc.

 

[Dragster Racer]

First post (I think; I donno - I've been registered here a while; may have talked about my generator install a while back?)... Oops - yep - my 10th post... yay me! -- too bad I forgot about the other stuff I posted; getting old ***** sometimes!
I'm almost done having a 36x32x14 downstairs, 36x20x9, pitched (taking into account the 4' knee wall) upstairs garage/rec room. The upstairs will be finished, and I'll be using the spray foam to insulate the roof/upstairs, then finishing with sheetrock. This will have the added benefit of giving insulated storage space behind the knee wall (do the math; I think the roof is on a 9/12 pitch - or something close). Downstairs in the business side of the garage, I'll be utilizing fiberglass in the walls. The contractor I'm using on this build mentioned the foam as being superior, as he used it in a very similar garage/loft he built (I think it's slightly larger, maybe 4 feet or so in length) and rents it out. He heats & cools the upstairs (Central NC area) with about 9000 BTU of mini split, and says he can easily keep it comfy. Researching the heck out of the foam, and his word that he can put it in for me at only 1.5x the cost of fiberglass, I'm going that route, even though my other choice would be to save the installation money and put fiberglass in myself. The thing that sells me most on it is that it seals everything up so well, but I'll still be able to "breathe" in some fresh air from the garage.

1.5X is a pretty good deal IMO. To be fair, one of the things that made mine so much less expensive the traditional route was that I did it myself.
I do understand with traditional you have to put up bookshelving, but i had to do that anyhow when I put up the interior walls on my pole building. So I figured that was a sunk cost. If I did the spray foam without accomodating the framing for the walls I'm not sure I know how to handle it later. If the foam was thick enough, there wouldn't be room for the supports. That would be a lot of form though.

 

[Fun pain]

If you can afford it, it will cost you in more ways then your thinking about...

If not use cellulose and go thick... Payoff for is a very very short time... I haven't seen one foam user give any energy/heat usage numbers, maybe somebody has I haven't seen it though. I spent less then $750 for R-60 ceiling, r -25+ walls, building is 30 x 50 13' walls, I did do it myself and that includes the blower rental twice, 40 bucks each.

Ofcourse if I used 18 inches of foam in the ceiling and 7.5" foam in wall it would be higher R value but I would STILL BE LAUGHING AT THE PRICE QUOTES...LOL


Maybe
If you only have 2x4 walls and don't want to add another 2x4, to get a 7" thick walls then go with with foam, it does save space...

 

[Tazzie]

Had my 38x40x16 pole building sprayed the best thing is how well it seals up the building no drafts. Even on windy days no drafty which equals no heat loss.

 

[Dragster Racer]

Had my 38x40x16 pole building sprayed the best thing is how well it seals up the building no drafts. Even on windy days no drafty which equals no heat loss.

Wow! No heat loss? Should be able to do without a heater then!

 

[Crazy68Dart]

I always thought it might be nice (not thinking through it at all) to do a "quick" go around the "seams" with spray foam. Tighten everything up, but at a lower cost do the remaining cavity with fiberglass or similar. Not sure it would be worth the cost/effort...