Spreading the Bonney affliction!

[Private Lugnutz]

Keep in mind that the B-Circle mark is a forge mark, for contract forge production. Or at least that's been my understanding. (Think about the Bethlehem Spark Plug Company ratchet, for example. It's not a Bonney ratchet. And you can see the exact same ratchet with a Herbrand forge mark, as well as a third unidentified forge mark, as BSPCo was using multiple forges.) Also, note that Bonney has a few contracts in the WPB Major War Supply Contracts books in 1940 for "Forgings." One of those is with the Navy and the other is the Treasury Dept. Typically, what you see in the product column is "Hand Tools" or "Socket Wrenches" or the like, and those are the kinds of things Bonney was contracted for in later contracts with the Ordnance Dept and other customers. Your wrench may have been a "Forgings" contract in 1939 that is not covered by the WPB MWSC books. Made to spec by N.A.F. or Treasury.

The other explanation to pursue would be the "D.Q" signifying April 1925 instead of April 1939. That doesn't alleviate the profile concerns (it doesn't resemble a typical Bonney DOE engineer wrench from the 1920's, either) and I would consider that very early for N.A.F. stock numbers.

One more data point on your wrench that is somewhat discomfiting. As you know, I have the 1944 Navy Aviation Supply Office Stock Catalog or "Blue Book", published at the N.A.F. in Philadelphia. There are no miniature DOE engineers wrenches listed. Only ignition wrenches and regular DOE engineers wrenches that don't go down that far (to 1/4" x 5/16") in size range.

So, it's an odd one.

But I'm glad you enjoyed the history of mid 1930's rearmament and mobilization.

 

[MisterEd]

Accepting the Bonney affliction!

I guess I should have expected to become afflicted by Bonney (and other manufacturers) since I grew up within hearing of the Keystone Forge whose hammers defined the hours of a working day.

That being said, my Significant Other, the one with the eye in this family, picked up a Bonney E42. My task then, is to find out just how successful she's been in finding another old wrench to add to our . . . accumulation.

Reading Alloy Artifacts gives me a lot of information and much of it conflicting, or so it seems. We'd like to define the age of the E42, but whether the "FM" is June '35 or June '49? And what about the "Made in U.S.A."; pre-1947?

And none of that touches on whether it's CV!!

Hep us!!

MisterEd

*** catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.
When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults

 

[LesserSon]

Re: Accepting the Bonney affliction!

I vote for 1935. The forged-in (raised) letters and numbers typically are replaced in later production by stamped figures. The form is consistent with the “extra-small box wrenches” shown in the 1936 Gray-Bonney and 1937 Bonney catalog illustrations (I don’t have a pdf for 1935).
CV? The catalog descriptions do not specify the steel composition, either. Bonney was still promoting their Zenel alloy at the time, so if they were Zenel, they’d probably have stated that. I think the distinctions (if there are any) among CV, Zenel, and Bonaloy are more to do with marketing than metallurgy. But is it just carbon steel? Dunno.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Re: Accepting the Bonney affliction!

I vote for 1935.

1949 would be 'U.S.A.', not 'MADE IN U.S.A.', almost certainly 'BONALOY', not 'BONNEY', and, as LS already alluded to, stamped, not forged.

I do disagree with LS on the composition. I don't think they put the Circle-CV mark on all the miniature tools, and these Extra-Small Box Wrenches were advertised as CV up through 1941.

In case you don't know it, what you have found is 1 of 4 wrenches in a 4-wrench ignition/electrical set. The other wrenches in the set (pouch, or cardboard box) were:
E40 - 3/16 x 13/64
E44 - 1/4 x 9/32
E46 - 5/16 x 11/32

LS,
Not to go off on a tangent, but I have a different opinion on the steel types. They proclaimed Zenel to be a new, special formula, and the strongest steel ever made. Now that could be all marketing ploy, but for the fact that they used it on tools before, during, and after the war, which means it was something that would pass the alloy restrictions, strongly hinting at triple alloy. As I have said before, my theory is Bonney developed a triple alloy well before the AISI/WPB/Industry consortium did in late 1941, withholding the recipe, at the time, for proprietary reasons. If they had any patriotic misgivings when alloy restrictions hit, the AISI/WPB/Industry consortium bailed them out. Or perhaps they even spilled the beans in the lab. I have the same theory about Billings Vitalloy for the same reason. They are the only two mfgr's that didn't drop their branding in WWII.

EDIT: Also, have you ever looked at a catalog listing of Zenel Long-Type Box Wrenches? They were made of Zenel steel from 7/16" to 1" only. A small footnote explains that all the wrenches larger than 1" would be Bonaloy steel. I think that's because, with several more inches of OAL, and some extra girth, they would be break the cost ratio.

 

[LesserSon]

Re: Accepting the Bonney affliction!

1949 would be 'U.S.A.', not 'MADE IN U.S.A.', almost certainly 'BONALOY', not 'BONNEY', and, as LS already alluded to, stamped, not forged.

I do disagree with LS on the composition. I don't think they put the Circle-CV mark on all the miniature tools, and these Extra-Small Box Wrenches were advertised as CV up through 1941.

Right. By the 1947 catalog, these are Bonaloy.
That’s a good theory about alloys developed to comply with foreseen restrictions. I’m not so sure a Bonney “lab” is the right image, though - “lab” gives me visions of Bunsen Honeydew / Wernher von Braun.
With Bethlehem mass-producing steel next door, I doubt Bonney ever made an ounce of steel in its existence. More like a phone call: “hey, can you guys send over a custom alloy? We’d like to try a few forgings.”

 

[LesserSon]

Re: Accepting the Bonney affliction!

BTW, there’s two items on eBay I noticed but won’t be bidding on:
”Princeton-shield” no21 DOE
3 Streamline Whitworth DOEs misidentified as SAE

 

[Username already in use]

I think I've posted this one here before, but who knows when. Since the topic has come back up, I'll post it again.
This is a Circle B (Bonney) wrench made for Wright Aeronautics. Date code is B.T. and it has the raised Chrome-Vanadium forged into the shank.
Stamped WRIGHT 80447

Too bad about the hole drilled through the face.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Re: Accepting the Bonney affliction!

I’m not so sure a Bonney “lab” is the right image, though - “lab” gives me visions of Bunsen Honeydew / Wernher von Braun.

That is precisely the kind of lab, in this case, for metallurgy, that I was referring to. But I meant the lab that the WPB set up for the AISI/Industry consortium in early 1941. By late 1941 they had invented the entirely new 8000 series of steel (triple alloys), which they called "New Emergency" steel, and by mid 1942, they had filled out several variants in that series and into a new 9000 - all low dose nickel-chromium-molybdenum. Vanadium was completely restricted. What I am suggesting is that this could have been less trial and error than suspected if Bonney or Billings shared their recipe. Edit: or, as you suggest, their suppliers did so.

 

[LesserSon]

Re: Accepting the Bonney affliction!

Today’s 11am Quakertown flea purchases. (Mick wasn’t even there!) E24 (looks like LT or IT, so 1942); 2804 (_Y 1947 made in usa flattened shank), 2805 (_V or _W 1944 or 45), 2806 (JW Oct1945); B23 linesman pliers (made in usa); polished oxide LocRite metric combos - 12mm, 13mm, 14mm, 15mm, 17mm, & 19mm.
So now, eyes sharp for 16mm & 18mm.

 

[Randall3rd]

Here’s a new one for me. 4 Drawer chest. It’s badged as Bonney, don’t have any reason to assume otherwise but can’t find any info on it. Thoughts?

 

[Mikeske]

Here’s a new one for me. 4 Drawer chest. It’s badged as Bonney, don’t have any reason to assume otherwise but can’t find any info on it. Thoughts?

Most likely a Waterloo Industries mid/top cabinet. I had a Waterloo Industries 27" roller cabinet with a top cabinet and when I bought mine they had 2 options for a upper cabinet and I choose the one with the opening that covered the drawers when closed and had a top area for my sockets. I attached a picture showing a very similar logo on my US General (Harbor Freight) box that I took off my old box and put on the new box. I also put up a picture of the old Waterloo box. You might want to look someplace on the back of the box and it might have a stamp of the build date. My top box did not have a date stamp or any other markings. My lower box had the date stamp on just below the key lock.

 

[rickhigginshtbr]

Randall, is that a intermediate chest too? Pretty Awesome! I would think 70's into the 80's judging by the badge and drawer pulls. Looks like every company had the same pulls around then.

 

[LesserSon]

Boom...I struck like a pickerel at a CP Swing. (Yay to the ‘Bay!)
Recipe for a No9 Ford Owners set: Take said purchase, add one 33F, stir vigorously, then pour over an RGW. Enjoy responsibly.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Haha. Nice.

 

[rickhigginshtbr]

Speaking of similar drawer pulls across different brands.... tomorrow I’m picking up a 50’s snap on 3 drawer top box. Now check this out, paying attention to the pulls on the drawers, on the cover, and the side carry handle.



Now this is out of the ‘60 Bonney catalog.



Nearly identical handles all around. If this thing fits on my Bonney roller nice and snug... I’ll be willing to put money on the fact they had the same manufacturer, just different styles.

Btw, anyone have a scan of a mid-50’s Bonney catalog?


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[Username already in use]

Btw, anyone have a scan of a mid-50’s Bonney catalog?

I have the ‘57 catalog. What are you looking for?

 

[rickhigginshtbr]

I have the ‘57 catalog. What are you looking for?

The box set up that year. ‘60 shows a 3 drawer mid as well.


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[chstrumpetdude]

My first set of 401 series tappet wrenches. It all started with a single 420 I got in a box and liked the quality. Pictured are 402-406.

Since I started looking, it seems the 401 series are more common than the 420 series.

 

[Sam'sAutoParts]

Bonney 4084 CV speed wrench, appears to be black oxide, but not sure if it the original finish. I really need to stop buying speed handles but couldn’t help myself today.



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[Username already in use]

The box set up that year. ‘60 shows a 3 drawer mid as well.

I don't see an intermediate box in the '57 catalog at all.
Here are the 2 pages of "metal chests"

 

[Mikeske]

Went to the Restore store today and found a Bonney P/N 1163 9/16" for $3.00 and a Herbrand no part number 13/16" wrench today for $3.00. The Herbrand is kind of different it is a Triangle Corp wrench as it has the triangle on it but the size stamping is not real good, the box end is satin all the way around and chrome on the open end is starting to flake on the outer edge. It actually surprised me that the quality was not that great. I use it in rough applications and so it did land in my toolbox.

 

[damon18]

Found this in a bunch of dirty rusty tools at an estate sale, hadn't seen the BON-E-CON mark before. Understand it was the E-Conomy line of Bonney tools. Looks pretty good to me, slight offset.

 

[bonneyman]

Went to the Restore store today and found a Bonney P/N 1163 9/16" for $3.00 and a Herbrand no part number 13/16" wrench today for $3.00. The Herbrand is kind of different it is a Triangle Corp wrench as it has the triangle on it but the size stamping is not real good, the box end is satin all the way around and chrome on the open end is starting to flake on the outer edge. It actually surprised me that the quality was not that great. I use it in rough applications and so it did land in my toolbox.

Yeah Mike that Herbrand does look a bit rough. Perhaps it was made late Friday by a guy who was eager to get to a party - or early Monday morning after attending said party!

 

[Mikeske]

Yeah Mike that Herbrand does look a bit rough. Perhaps it was made late Friday by a guy who was eager to get to a party - or early Monday morning after attending said party!

Yeah or the quality control inspector was asleep at his station.

 

[rickhigginshtbr]

I don't see an intermediate box in the '57 catalog at all.
Here are the 2 pages of "metal chests"

Hmmm.... ok. Still on the hunt. The snap on one is close, but about an inch narrower in width.

That CC10 looks identical to my Huot bottom cabinet, other than color, complete to the offset trim pieces, which I thought had been added. The MB82 looks similar to the Huot top chest I have. Makes me wonder....

I'm still wondering who made the Bonney boxes too...

 

[Sam'sAutoParts]

Yeah or the quality control inspector was asleep at his station.

I think I have a Herbrand of the same vintage that is peeling something fierce. Wonder what I did with it?


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[Mikeske]

Hmmm.... ok. Still on the hunt. The snap on one is close, but about an inch narrower in width.



I'm still wondering who made the Bonney boxes too...

I posted in post number 2665 as I suspected it was made by Waterloo Industries as it has the same Logo as my old Waterloo roller box, It has the same door pulls as my old Bonney box and likely if you inspect it closely it will have some place either on the back, top, sides, bottom or along the lower front filler panel a date code. It will be faint but digging around you find it , if you find a date code it is a Waterloo Industries Box. You might also look at the drawer slides and if they have a spring retaining clip on the friction slide near the fronts a lot like the Craftsman of the late 1970's to mid 1980's also were Waterloo Industries tool boxes, in fact my old Waterloo box had a couple of the slide retraining clips broken and I ordered Craftsman clips off eBay and they worked perfectly. In my opinion that toolbox was made by Waterloo Industries in Waterloo, Iowa.

I think I have a Herbrand of the same vintage that is peeling something fierce. Wonder what I did with it?


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Time to dig

 

[LesserSon]

Working on a “custom” wrench board...
I may have to reposition some of the pegs (aluminum nails); I thought I could get away with uniform 1-1/4” spacing, but the three largest sizes encroach.
Edit - I changed my mind three tines, but ended up redrilling the holes along the bottom to improve the spacing (and leave room for up to two more beyond 1”). Then duplicated the nails along the top (currently a spacey mess). Oddballs can fit in between the two disciplined rows.
Or maybe this last looks best for now.

 

[Username already in use]

Working on a “custom” wrench board...
I may have to reposition some of the pegs (aluminum nails); I thought I could get away with uniform 1-1/4” spacing, but the three largest sizes encroach.

Looks nice! Personally, I don't think the larger sizes look too bunched up. Nice work.

Here's a few Bonney pieces that followed me home last weekend. First 1-3/16 socket that I've found, so that was a nice surprise.

The LocRite is a Kelsy-Hayes wrench.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Working on a “custom” wrench board...
I may have to reposition some of the pegs (aluminum nails); I thought I could get away with uniform 1-1/4” spacing, but the three largest sizes encroach.

Looks nice! Personally, I don't think the larger sizes look too bunched up. Nice work.

I am eager to see what you're going to do with the empty space. I am guessing some kind of branding and data excerpt from a catalog?

 

[LesserSon]

Thanks, guys. I’d like to continue with mirror-matched Zenel & CV dbes above. Have to try some configurations to see what else fits. I had considered hanging hammers on this board, but my insightful daughter observed that the handles would blend in with the woodgrain. And I think it may not have the right look for DOEs.
Last week I eBayed two soft face tips, and did a handle transplant from a recently-acquired, modified (no *******!) PH20 to a rotted-handled PH20 (bought in Elmira NY 2 years ago), thus saving a Stanley 595 from intended sacrifice. I’m waiting for mid-winter dryness to put the wedge in, then I’ll pop these gorgeous, NOS soft faces on.
Today I received a PH17 (1-1/2oz) from eBay, which leaves me a PH21 (32oz) yet to find. Could be, Bonney sold 12oz or 24oz soft-face hammers, but I haven’t seen them.

 

[RTM]

Here is my minor contribution to the affliction. Found this a few years back, it serves as my front of the garage socket set, for those quick jobs where its not worth walking to the back and pulling out the big heavy sets with all the universals, extensions, etc. This is the as found state. I have added an appropriately shaped CrMo ratchet made in Japan, and a Sparta 3" extension, but I am on the lookout for the appropriate T702K ratchet. I see this as a 1967- 1976 version, as it has the triangle under the Y, but is a metal case, vs. the plastic seen in the 1977 catalog. This should be a 19 piece set, counting the case. I only saw one other similar red metal case in the thread, and can't find it again to see if they are different. It has a faint Utica and Bonney sticker on the box front. The TH22 11/16" socket is double struck if someone is into that.

Can anyone tell me what type of ratchet is correct for that era, X shaped lever, or Dash shaped, so if it ever turns up, I know if its correct? I am buying any T702K I find, so it really doesn't matter, but on the off chance I have a choice.

Thanks for a great information thread on these tools

 

[bonneyman]

Here is my minor contribution to the affliction. Found this a few years back, it serves as my front of the garage socket set, for those quick jobs where its not worth walking to the back and pulling out the big heavy sets with all the universals, extensions, etc. This is the as found state. I have added an appropriately shaped CrMo ratchet made in Japan, and a Sparta 3" extension, but I am on the lookout for the appropriate T702K ratchet. I see this as a 1967- 1976 version, as it has the triangle under the Y, but is a metal case, vs. the plastic seen in the 1977 catalog. This should be a 19 piece set, counting the case. I only saw one other similar red metal case in the thread, and can't find it again to see if they are different. It has a faint Utica and Bonney sticker on the box front. The TH22 11/16" socket is double struck if someone is into that.

Can anyone tell me what type of ratchet is correct for that era, X shaped lever, or Dash shaped, so if it ever turns up, I know if its correct? I am buying any T702K I find, so it really doesn't matter, but on the off chance I have a choice.

Thanks for a great information thread on these tools

Thanks! The Bonney guys are a great bunch, and we like to help out as best we can with questions.

My 1977 catalog shows a dash selector on the 3/8" ratchet. If your kit is prior, I'd say the tri-wing style is what was in there.
Good condition T702's are a bit hard to find. Surprisingly, V702's (1/4") and A702's (1/2") are much more common. At least in my area. Don't know why.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

This #3 cross-recess tip is from the flea market yesterday. I was a little worried about the shank, which was coated with rust. It cleaned up pretty good! Unfortunately, it is postwar (has the 1950 Phillips patent on it), so into the 'future trade material' bin it goes.

 

[Mikeske]

Here is my minor contribution to the affliction. Found this a few years back, it serves as my front of the garage socket set, for those quick jobs where its not worth walking to the back and pulling out the big heavy sets with all the universals, extensions, etc. This is the as found state. I have added an appropriately shaped CrMo ratchet made in Japan, and a Sparta 3" extension, but I am on the lookout for the appropriate T702K ratchet. I see this as a 1967- 1976 version, as it has the triangle under the Y, but is a metal case, vs. the plastic seen in the 1977 catalog. This should be a 19 piece set, counting the case. I only saw one other similar red metal case in the thread, and can't find it again to see if they are different. It has a faint Utica and Bonney sticker on the box front. The TH22 11/16" socket is double struck if someone is into that.

Can anyone tell me what type of ratchet is correct for that era, X shaped lever, or Dash shaped, so if it ever turns up, I know if its correct? I am buying any T702K I find, so it really doesn't matter, but on the off chance I have a choice.

Thanks for a great information thread on these tools

Thanks! The Bonney guys are a great bunch, and we like to help out as best we can with questions.

My 1977 catalog shows a dash selector on the 3/8" ratchet. If your kit is prior, I'd say the tri-wing style is what was in there.
Good condition T702's are a bit hard to find. Surprisingly, V702's (1/4") and A702's (1/2") are much more common. At least in my area. Don't know why.

I have three of the 3/8” ratchets one tri-wing and two dash lever ones. I want to keep the tri-wing as it took me years to find that one but one of the dash lever could easily find a new home. PM me if interested. That was almost a woops moment I accidentally uploaded a picture of my new throne. It is now corrected.

 

[Mikeske]

If you want the try-wing 3/8" here is a eBay auction

.https://www.ebay.com/itm/VTG-BONNEY...riorityMailPaddedFlatRateEnvelope!98284!US!-1

 

[chstrumpetdude]

Just saw these Zenel open end wrenches on ebay. Pretty nice shape for their age and is a complete set. Too bad I already have the same set as CV.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Description says 3/8" to 3/4" but it looks like a Set No. Z25 to me, which ran 3/8" to 1". It's the 6-wrench GMTK set. Pictures are terrible. He skips all over the place. I asked him what the date codes are. I have a set, but Unaiu or another WWII guy may want to go for it if they're S,T,U, V, or W.

 

[LesserSon]

Couple small wrenches from a multi-vendor indoor place this past Sunday. The finish on the nineteen-teens 725A DOE bears some investigation. My first thought was silver paint, but it’s silver under that, too.
The S144 (length more like 2888 than 2891) DBE is 1940, marked “Alloy Steel” instead of Bonaloy...C (or G?) R date code. I kind of expect Bonaloy by then (post-1938). Maybe they just had some leftover pre-Bonaloy TuHex stock? But why doesn’t it say TuHex? My notes tell me I have a TuHex 144 (should be longer than this one) but I can’t seem to find it for comparison.
After work, I’m going to look for signs of a ghostly “TuHex” under the “Bonney” stamp.
Edit - no ghostly stamp. I don’t have a 1940 catalog pdf, but the 1939 shows no short-type 15° wrenches in the 142 series - only long ones. The 2888 shows up in the 1941 catalog. The S144 does not seem to be a catalog wrench, so I’m going to call it transitional between TuHex and Bonaloy.
Also, the 725A was plain steel under the silver paint.

 

[bonneyman]

Pawn shop going out of business after 25 years, they keep opening up boxes and dumping the contents on tables. Today I came across a great looking Utica torque wrench, 3/8" drive. Don't know if it clicks or is properly calibrated but the 3/8" gear drive will fit a Bonney 1/4" handle so I could always go that route (though I already have one). Or remove the head and shaft and use it as a stubby 3/8". Anyway, cost me all of $7.

P.S. Someone on the forum turned me on to the Bonney 3/8" drive in 1/4" handle fit, but I can't remember who it was. Chime in so I can thank you again.