Spreading the Bonney affliction!

[r_olson_06]

Thought I’d post a couple ratchet additions. Had the 1/2” Bon-E-Con ZA701, recently picked up the 1/4 Vi-Chrome 24800, then saw the 3/8 Bon-E-Con ZT701 in just beautiful, basically mint condition, and added that. Makes up a little family other than the name.

Finally, the other little guy, a Bonney 1/4 V701.

Nice ViChrome. Those are hard to come by. Also to have one in 1/4" to boot.

Looking for a Plomb 3061 Pebble Open End.

 

[3baygarage]

Thanks. That is kind of a tough one to find. A tool dealer had it at the Flywheelers swap meet but I nearly missed it. After seeing just about everything, he asked me if I'd looked in this little socket box. It was a mixed box, and I couldn't believe that was in there.


Would you happen to know if Vi-Chrome had all sizes in this style? I have 3/8 and 1/2 in other round head styles, I know you have the other Bonney/Herbrand/Dayton switch type as well.

 

[r_olson_06]

Thanks. That is kind of a tough one to find. A tool dealer had it at the Flywheelers swap meet but I nearly missed it. After seeing just about everything, he asked me if I'd looked in this little socket box. It was a mixed box, and I couldn't believe that was in there.


Would you happen to know if Vi-Chrome had all sizes in this style? I have 3/8 and 1/2 in other round head styles, I know you have the other Bonney/Herbrand/Dayton switch type as well.

I will have to dig. My inventory sheet shows a 3/8" but I have it marked as a Herbrand similar not bonney.

Looking for a Plomb 3061 Pebble Open End.

 

[bonneyman]

Schweeet!

Good job, 3bay.

 

[3baygarage]

Schweeet!

Good job, 3bay.

Now I'm wondering why I didn't get the Bonney flex head I saw a while back.

 

[bonneyman]

Now I'm wondering why I didn't get the Bonney flex head I saw a while back.

Like mine? I love the handle style.

 

[Spike01]

I ran across this little set today...

 

[Skooch]

Found a very nice Bonney-made Stillson 6". Spring intact, no chips in jaws or teeth, clean handle.

 

[bonneyman]

Found a very nice Bonney-made Stillson 6". Spring intact, no chips in jaws or teeth, clean handle.

Shoot, that is one of the cleanest old Stilsons I've ever seen! Nice score!

 

[3baygarage]

Like mine? I love the handle style.

Yep. That’s the one.

I ran across this little set today...

Nice.

 

[LesserSon]

Wow! Congratulations to whoever eWon that mid1920s no311 assortment display in Ithaca NY.
“Beautiful” doesn’t come close!
I have a question, though, for anybody: why do you think Bonney didn’t include a spot for the 1033C?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

That was spectacular. Good deal too!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Did either of you guys happen to save the photos? Or do you have a link to the sale? I just searched eBay Advanced Sold listings and nothing spectacular popped up.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here it is

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I can't see the wrench numbers. Where're the DOE's? Top row of 4 or bottom row of 3? I am curious what's driving LS's question about a missing 1033C (15/16" x 1" DOE wrench).

 

[Oldtuleguy]

More pics

 

[Oldtuleguy]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bonney-For...Retail-Wrench-Tool-Display-Rack-/114162849110


Link to item

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks. LS texted me, too. It should have all DOEs, I see. Not sure why they cut if off at 7/8, but that's the way that board came, 3/8 to 7/8. The 1925 catalog calls those eleven (11) wrenches "the most popular."

EDIT: In the late 30's they touted their No. 420 set as the most economical way to go from 3/8" to 7/8" in five (5) wrenches - 723, 25, 27C, 28S, ad 731A - without repeating an end, and they were right. The Army QMC liked the idea so much they wrote the engineering spec for on-board toolkits (ES 585) on it, and Bonney in turn made a series of DOE wrenches with the "585" as a model number.

The QMC added the 33C for a 6-wrench second echelon GMTK set.

There are a lot of redundant ends on the No. 311 board.

 

[LesserSon]

Bonney in turn made a series of DOE wrenches with the "585" as a model number.

There’s one on eBay right now, if anyone is desperate. I’ve got one that size and have yet to find any of the other sizes, or I’d be tempted. I think I may have the Krieger (1033C) variant, or maybe just spotted it, and again, have seen no other sizes.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm looking for a 585-4 (3/8" x 7/16"). Unicornus actualium! They made one for every wrench in the 6-wench GMTK set, all the info linked here.

 

[LesserSon]

B25 chain nose side cutter pliers delivered today from eBay, despite a water main break a couple blocks away flood my street (and several adjacent streets). Literally across the street from the former home of Bonney President Joseph “Ned” Durham.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Nice snag, LS. I don't think I ever noticed those little sprocket like features on the joint before. I'll have the check my pliers.

 

[Username already in use]

Nice pliers, LS!

I don't think I ever noticed those little sprocket like features on the joint before. I'll have the check my pliers.

I would have guessed them to be Champion DeArment, since Bonney was using them for the midget pliers in the ignition set. But I'm not sure they were making needle nose pliers at the time?

The sprocket joint isn't unique by itself. Utica and Klein both show that feature as well, but there are only 4 points to the sprocket on those brands.

I found a good match in these Crescent needle nose.

 

[d42jeep]

Here are some screenshots from that Bonney board listing.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

Nice pliers, LS!



I would have guessed them to be Champion DeArment, since Bonney was using them for the midget pliers in the ignition set. But I'm not sure they were making needle nose pliers at the time?

The sprocket joint isn't unique by itself. Utica and Klein both show that feature as well, but there are only 4 points to the sprocket on those brands.

I found a good match in these Crescent needle nose.

Here is another pair of Crescent longnoses with that sprocket joint.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Well, I've got five (5) pliers with a sprocket joint, including a Bonney, but I don't think it helps resolve anything. Either Bonney had multiple suppliers, or OEM's used 4- and 6-points randomly.

Here, in Pics 1, 2, & 3, is a postwar Bonney B-17 diagonal cutter with a 4-point sprocket joint.

And, in Pics 4, 5, & 6 is a wartime Crestoloy 940-6 diagonal cutter with a 6-point sprocket joint.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here is another Crestoloy, also wartime, model 1950-6 (Signal Corps TL-13) lineman's pliers, with a 6-point sprocket joint.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

And finally, here is a new brand for the sprocket joint mix.

Note that with all the examples we have seen the sprocket joint is inside the static jaw/handle. But there are two nuances with these Diamonds. The other mfgr's put the static (sprocket) joint on the bottom side and they mark the top side, around the pivoting joint. Diamond puts the pivoting joint on the bottom, and they mark the top side, around the static (sprocket) joint.

A wartime Diamalloy Signal Corps TL-13-A, no Diamond model number, with a 6-point sprocket joint.

A shabby Diamalloy SL-57, age uncertain, with a 4-point sprocket joint.

 

[LesserSon]

Those tabs or ears on the pivot seem to vary by model, size, and year of manufacture. Logically, I would assert that the diameter of the pivot pin should determine how many ears can be spaced around it.
Certainly some manufacturers could have had preferences for four- or six-ear pivots, but I don’t think it’s a reliable identifier.
Usually with Bonney pliers (which I think they always outsourced), I assume they were made by Utica, unless (like checker-dot grips) there’s contrary evidence. Not just after 1964, but throughout their histories, Bonney and Utica pliers share design features (e.g. depressed diamonds grip). But Crescent and Utica bear a lot of resemblance (not least in model numbers), and there’s the marked Champion DeArment example, as mentioned.
I would offer more Utica images, but the location, mounting position, and lighting on my display make the ears VERY hard to photograph. I took pics of ten pliers, and most didn’t clearly show the feature. MOST of my examples have four-eared pivots, but here’s a six-ear.

 

[LesserSon]

Note that with all the examples we have seen the sprocket joint is inside the static jaw/handle.

That’s what makes it static.

Other mfgr's put the static (sprocket) joint on the bottom side and they mark the top side, around the pivoting joint. Diamond puts the pivoting joint on the bottom, and they mark the top side, around the static (sprocket) joint.

I like the “Diamond method” better, because then the logo stays readable, open or shut, and doesn’t break when you scissor them. But I think that nuance is maybe statistical. Here are two Utica linemans, one logo on the static and one logo on the dynamic. Note also, that the cutter side matches the logo side regardless of dynamic or static. (Maybe that is why many of my display case pliers don’t evince the ears - only three of the long nose sport cutters, and all are displayed with the stamped logo showing.)
The only cutting pliers among Utica I have found that don’t follow that rule are the very early examples with no stamp on the pivot - just the three ovals or thee diamonds forge mark in the handles.
Last three pics show an older Utica linemans with failed pivot. They are frozen, and forcing them to open or close completely popped the ears out of the corresponding depressions in the static side. I’ve pressed them back a couple times trying to get them to work right, but eventually the ears will snap from metal fatigue.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is a Proto and a couple more early Diamonds to add into the mix.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Certainly some manufacturers could have had preferences for four- or six-ear pivots, but I don’t think it’s a reliable identifier.

Agreed, hence my pessimism about my five examples and the veracity of any drawn conclusions.

That’s what makes it static.

Haha. Good point! A poorly worded prelude to my point about the method Diamond apparently preferred to orient that side with respect to the jaws of the pliers and the markings.

 

[wrenchguy]

I been looking up my vintage Bonney stuff and finding info on most except this magnet. Maybe its not old enough to turn up on the web as far as collectors are concerned. Anyone here give aprox dates for it?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

No earlier than 1946, Mike. And it doesn't look modern to me. So my guess would be immediate postwar through 50s.

 

[wrenchguy]

thanks.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I got a little more curious. The earliest catalog I have that the K-1 (also K-3, 17") appears in is 1950. It does not appear in the 1946. That was their first catalog since 1941, and give the context (first catalog since the end of the war), very scant. But, from 1950 on, the magnetic holding tool is always shown with the mechanical holding tool (push fingers), and from 1946 back, the catalogs only show the magic fingers type. So I think 1950's is a very good bet.

Nice piece! I'm jealous.

 

[damon18]

I searched this topic and found some Zenel discussion but nothing with these numbers. Looking at Alloy-Artifacts I think they are tappet wrenches.

On one side there are marks that could be owners marks, or are they date codes? What year were these from?

Model numbers 3422 and 3424

 

[outofbounds]

In the absence of a Pratt Whitney stickie, I'll shoot this one through here.

A while back I bought a box of random Bonney wrenches of all vintages for one price. While processing it, I picked this wrench up more than one time, and tossed it back thinking it a "PO modified" DBE and of no intrinsic value. This most recent time, after getting closer to the bottom of this particular Bonney barrel, I noticed that it wasn't marked Bonney at all, but rather PWA 5430 and there were no sizes on the wrench either. I also now believe what I presumed as owner modified to being "finish machining" as it is executed almost perfectly.

My question for the experts, having found no other reference to this wrench online is: Is it in fact of Bonney manufacture, and would they concur that this wrench is in fact as originally designed/manufactured?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

On one side there are marks that could be owners marks, or are they date codes? What year were these from?

Date codes. Can't read them from here. Should be two letters. Post the codes. (EDIT: I know people like to post photos, because it's easier, but transcribing markings is often much more helpful, and then there is text to feed the search engine.) Those wrenches were made anywhere between the 1930's and 1945.

outofbounds
While we don't have a single thread dedicated to PWA, if you search the VB on "Pratt Whitney" or "PWA" you will see a list of threads including this one in which the term is used. And if you search this thread on the same terms, you will get a list of posts in which it was used. I have a bunch of Bonney PWA tools (one of their main suppliers). I don't recall if I have seen that particular wrench before, or if I have ever seen any commercial Bonney wrench with a wedgehead. I'd have to dig. But yeah, probability is very high it's Bonney.

EDIT: What are openings sizes?

 

[outofbounds]

outofbounds
While we don't have a single thread dedicated to PWA, if you search the VB on "Pratt Whitney" or "PWA" you will see a list of threads including this one in which the term is used. And if you search this thread on the same terms, you will get a list of posts in which it was used. I have a bunch of Bonney PWA tools (one of their main suppliers). I don't recall if I have seen that particular wrench before, or if I have ever seen any commercial Bonney wrench with a wedgehead. I'd have to dig. But yeah, probability is very high it's Bonney.

EDIT: What are openings sizes?[/QUOTE]

Lugz,
The openings don't reference a "size", but both openings are the same and most closely approximate a 1/2" 12 point box end, but in fact are more a specialty 12 point "asterisk".

I once had a Bonney specialty PWA1634 socket that had a similar shape fitting that was previously described to me as being for specific bolt heads on Pratt Whitney radial engines. I see an identical PWA1634 on Ebay now that describes that one as being 9/16. I believe this one to be a smaller version of the same specialty bolt head.

The "hallmark" on the wrench reads (to the best I can tell) as " 1:Q " if that steers me to a date that I might comb a Bonney catalog to locate this wrench.

Does 1:Q ring a bell?