Spreading the Bonney affliction!

[LesserSon]

I searched this topic and found some Zenel discussion but nothing with these numbers. Looking at Alloy-Artifacts I think they are tappet wrenches.

On one side there are marks that could be owners marks, or are they date codes? What year were these from?

Yes, tappet adjustment wrenches. That’s what the 34XX series is. I have four of that series, one each of 3420, 3422, 3424B, 3426. They were usually sold in pairs, though I think used in threes. Maybe the third was a different size?
Owners marks are almost always stamped, ground or engraved - all subtractive processes (sometimes welded or plasma cut). Those marks are raised, so forged-in during manufacture.
Looks like Aug1937 (HO) and Mar1938 (CP) to my eyes. Lugz is right about posting what you can see - I’m not confident about that’s an “O”. I don’t think 1951 & 1952, because they wouldn’t include “Made in“ after June 1946; also not sure tappets were offered in Zenel that late (Bonaloy instead).
I can’t say I’ve seen many in Zenel alloy, though I haven’t really tried. By contrast, of the earlier CV alloy version with both ends having the same opening with different angles, I have dozens.

 

[LesserSon]

OOB,
I:Q (not 1:Q) is probably September 1939.
That swept box end on your DBEs reminds me strongly of the box end of two very long combos (2640 & 2641) Bonney offered for torquing something (crankshaft-to-transmission bolts). I would guess that shape is dictated by extremely close vertical clearance and the angle of access.

Ah, yes, here they are. 1950 C-3 catalog, p71.
They’re not in the 1950 M-2 catalog.

 

[engineer2]

Using some free time to organize my tools. Didn't even know I owned any Bonney tools.
Must have been my dad's. He was into HVAC.

 

[outofbounds]

OOB,
I:Q (not 1:Q) is probably September 1939.
That swept box end on your DBEs reminds me strongly of the box end of two very long combos (2640 & 2641) Bonney offered for torquing something (crankshaft-to-transmission bolts). I would guess that shape is dictated by extremely close vertical clearance and the angle of access.

Ah, yes, here they are. 1950 C-3 catalog, p71. They’re not in the 1950 M2 catalog.

Terrific input, LesserSon! I appreciate it. That date coding will give me something to go on.

The one comment I would make is that the wrench is rather lithe in stature and I'd be thinking more tweaking vs. torquing.

The one real mystery to me is the wrench ostensibly features two ends which are mirror images of each other.... wonder why that might be...

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I couldn't it - or any other wedge head - in any 1930's catalogs or the wartime catalogs. And I couldn't find it listed in my 1943 PWA reference, either.

 

[LesserSon]

I know nothing about PWA. I made a pre-war assumption. Could it be Sep1953?

 

[Provincial]

It is interesting that the PWA 5430 wrench in post #3053 is shaped like the patented Barcalo "scoop" wrenches. If Bonney was making them prior to the Barcalo patent date, one wonders why the patent was granted?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I have a set of those made by Matco. Very handy.

 

[d42jeep]

Barcalo didn’t patent the design until the mid ‘50s. They were plenty active during WW2, though, and could have made a wrench for PWA.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Blackhawk made wedgeheads, too. But that is a Bonney wrench. Besides the date code, which is unmistakably Bonney, the raised forged-in PWA marking looks exactly like the raised forged-in markings on Bonney DBEs.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I know nothing about PWA. I made a pre-war assumption. Could it be Sep1953?

Maybe. There aren't any tools in my 1943 PWA tools and special tools reference with any 5xxx numbers. PWA-1xx through PWA-9xx, PWA-1xxx, and PWA-2xxx. (Note that my reference includes Pratt & Whitney Wasp, Wasp Junior, and Twin Wasp engines. I think that's the extent of their WWII production. Provincial would know more.) Conclusion is that higher series number could support the possibility of it being 1953 instead.

 

[LesserSon]

It is interesting that the PWA 5430 wrench in post #3053 is shaped like the patented Barcalo "scoop" wrenches. If Bonney was making them prior to the Barcalo patent date, one wonders why the patent was granted?

If the only patent on the scoop wrenches is the design patent posted by Don, then the resemblance of the box ends by itself is irrelevant. It’s the combination of physical elements that is protected, not just any one element, and particularly not functionality. So the chamfered corners and offset raised panels of the shank and the oblique hollow or scoop leading into the top-side of the openings would also have to be present.
I checked the broaching of my 2641 more closely, and the degrees may not be identical to Barcalo’s, but there is a definite tilt from 90°. The side view of the box ends is very similar. But the Bonney is lacking an oblique hollow leading into the opening, which for me is the most distinctive element in the scoop wrenches.
It’s interesting that the patent references a 1955 Indestro catalog (20, 20-S) page 29, I guess for comparison as a “standard” DBE. I don’t have that catalog, so I’m not sure.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...the Bonney is lacking an oblique hollow leading into the opening, which for me is the most distinctive element in the scoop wrenches.

Agreed. The Bonney heads look like someone merely ground down a box end on an angle to a deliberate taper. I'm not suggesting the PWA wrench is not factory. My point is that with the Bonney construction process (or merely grinding down any box end to a taper) you can't arrive at the look of the Barcalo and ostensibly Barcalo-made Craftsman and Powr-Kraft wrenches you guys like to refer to as "scooped". Regardless of the scoop, they also have a very pronounced teardrop shape. More oval than round.

A clarification on the Blackhawk Wedg-Heads I mentioned upthread. They were patented (2,687,056) on August 24, 1954, beating Barcalo's D177,636 patent to a wedgy, tapered head by almost two full years. But, Blackhawk only applied it to open end wrench jaws for some reason, and a second main feature was a hidden recess at the bottom of the throat of the jaws, used to get a new bight (sticking a corner of the nut in there to turn the wrench) without lifting the wrench off the nut.

EDIT: To save someone time, I just scrolled through 4.c's "Indestro catalogs" thread looking for the Barcalo patent citation reference. No dice. It jumps from 1948 to 1959.

 

[leg17]

Is this a Bonney logo??

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Yup.

 

[damon18]

On one side there are marks that could be owners marks, or are they date codes? What year were these from?

Date codes. Can't read them from here. Should be two letters. Post the codes. (EDIT: I know people like to post photos, because it's easier, but transcribing markings is often much more helpful, and then there is text to feed the search engine.) Those wrenches were made anywhere between the 1930's and 1945.

Understand, I didn't transcribe these because I couldn't quite make them out, was hoping someone else would recognize. Tried to get a better picture and still not sure. My Guess is
5/8 wrench = C P
1/2 wrench = H O or H C or H G

Pictures with and without flash.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

No worries. Looks like O (1937) and P (1938) as LS said after I replied.

 

[LesserSon]

Now I think the one could be HQ.
HC and HG are not possible combinations of Bonney’s date code system. A-L are months and M-Z are years.
So could be Aug1939.

 

[damon18]

Now I think the one could be HQ.
HC and HG are not possible combinations of Bonney’s date code system. A-L are months and M-Z are years.
So could be Aug1939.

Did they use both O and Q as year codes? That doesn't seem like a good idea. ;-)

 

[LesserSon]

Yeah. I don’t think it was intended like Snap-on date codes. Not a warrantee-starter. Forged-in codes only indicate when the blank was forged, not sized or finished or sold. Probably more of an internal quality-control tracker. There are examples where the tool was forged with the date codes one year, and then stamped years later with a different-era logo.
There are actually a couple Textile Machine Co “S” wrenches on eBay right now that exemplify that:
Both forged-in date codes JS (Oct1926), but one is stamped with the pre-1932 “embedded-shield” logo, and the other with the post-1932 “Plain Bonney” logo. Same seller has another pair of a different size, both forged-in JS; one with embedded-shield logo, and the other not stamped with logo, though the sizes are stamped.
Textile Machine Co was a Bonney customer located in Reading PA.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Picked up another 3/8 ratchet. This one is at t 707 my other is a tt707. Is the tt a Bonney con version? Both pat pending. Just curious about the distinction.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Couple pics

 

[LesserSon]

No, they’re different models, but both Bonney. Catalog debuts are three years apart (1960&1963). Pretty sure the mechanism is identical or close, but the selector switch and handle designs are different.
Some of the BonECon stuff retained design cues like the tapered/conical grip, but is generally plainer and boxier. Ignoring the mechanism, I think there is a natural progression to the handle design.
That “Outlined” handle on the T707 has its origins in the earlier (1957) “Streamlined” handle on the T701. Just a bit of a split in the early sixties of whether to go with a straight selector switch or the in-line dial switch.
Could be the “pending” refers to the mechanism on the T707, and the selector or handle (probably a design patent, if just the handle) on the TR707. Just a guess; I don’t recall actually researching it.

 

[d42jeep]

I don’t collect Bonney but this PWA1397 3/8” drive breaker arrived today in an eBay S-K lot. It’s quite different looking than the Plomb version I got earlier in the week. It was IDed for me as likely being Bonney by the experts.
-Don

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Thanks ls, great info!

 

[leg17]

BONNEY DOE ‘S’ Wrench w/reinforced openings
What do I have here? I hadn’t noticed this logo on simple wrenches until now, but AA shows it on an early curved adjustable. The wrench is not marked other than the logo and a ‘D’ on the other side. The wrench is twisted and cracked.

How was this wrench made?
The ‘fuzziness’ of the markings sure looks to be from a casting process. And, the parting line seems rather thin, like a casting. The parting looks a lot like the Ford wrenches that also had the reinforced opening.
Was it some kind of a malleable iron casting?
Were the Ford wrenches castings?
The entire ‘presence’ of this seems quite different than the early forged wrenches with the kidney bean logo. And the parting line on the kidney bean is clearly a forging.

When was this wrench made?
The kidney bean wrenches were apparently made prior to 1920 or so, as were the Ford wrenches .
Was Bonney both casting wrenches and forging wrenches during the same time period?

 

[LesserSon]

If established conjecture can be trusted, the “jellybean” logo is older than the “Princeton shield” logo. The Ford wrenches were made for a span. Defonitely early “B-shield” and into the date-code era, I think into “embedded-shield” era. They are carbon-steel. I doubt your wrench is cast, but it may represent sloppy start-up work shortly after the Durham purchase or move to Allentown.
I think I have one of those around. I think Lugz suggested it might be a machinery wrench earlier on tbis thread, if you want to look back.

Edit - sorry, conflated two different wrenches. My “D” has no indication of being a Bonney.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Was it some kind of a malleable iron casting?

Very possible. They are shown in the 1914 catalog with straight shanks and reinforced jaws, literally called "Malleable Machinery Wrenches," with a description as being "made of the highest grade malleable iron, carefully cast." I have never seen them in an "S" wrench configuration, but there's a good chance that's what that is, Leg, and we have a sizable gap in catalogs between 1914 and 1923. Nice find, and good analysis.

EDIT: Someone posted one before, and I provided the same info. It may have been RagTopTA. Search the thread on "malleable."

 

[LesserSon]

The malleable iron discussion ranges in post numbers in the 1470s and 1480s. And Lugz is right, it was a straight (possibly size K) wrench found by RagTopTA.

 

[leg17]

Thanks so much LS and Lugz.
You both have got me on the right track.
Looks like something interesting to dig into.

Based on all this, I going with the 'Ford' wrenches as also being cast.

Thanks again so much.

 

[leg17]

.....

I think I have one of those around. ......

You do. Earlier post 1567 looks like a match but size 'E'.

.....

Edit - sorry, conflated two different wrenches. My “D” has no indication of being a Bonney.

This 'D' looks like a pretty good fit to those shown on page 32 of the Bonney cat 18 from 1914 as linked to from Twertsy.
Slightly different from the one I picked up but the hex-gullet is in the 1914 set.

 

[LesserSon]

Thank YOU, leg17-
I was more than half-convinced I was suffering stay-at-home brain atrophy!
Yes, I found the “E” and also a Williams 263 that strongly resembles the Bonney 866C I had posted.

Edit- I agree that the “D” I posted does have a resemblance to the S wrenches on pp32-33. But I’m measuring 3/4x13/16 instead of the expected 13/16x7/8 openings. Plus, there are no other markings beside the “D,” which I take to be an industry shared model number. The Williams wrench demonstrates how similar wrenches made by different manufacturers can be. I’ve moved the “D” into my Bonney “S” box on a provisional basis, but I’d be a lot happier if it had a “Bonney” logo on it somewhere.

 

[leg17]

I guess not. The markings are crisp, and besides, the catalog says that they are forged.

The parting line had me fooled.

 

[Shelbylex]

New addition to my collection - look what was hiding under a thick layer of rust (the first wrench on top after I pushed off some rust with a glove). The second and the third pictures are after restoration

 

[dubdoc]

Hi. Just saw your thread (will read it all later) and have a few comments. In Canada, Bonney was Gray-Bonney. They were the second line of Gray tools (like Bluepoint to Snap-On). Was that the same tools or is it something else. I have a few wrenches as part of a great set of Gray tools I bought 50 years ago.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

In Canada, Bonney was Gray-Bonney. They were the second line of Gray tools (like Bluepoint to Snap-On).

Gray-Bonney was a wholly owned subsidiary of Bonney from 1933 to 1961. Bonney essentially bailed Gray out after it collapsed during the early stages of the Great Depression. The tools were identical or near-identical, using the same dies, except for final markings.

Blue-Point was never a second or economy line of tools to Snap-on. It was initially a separate company or subsidiary that the owners of Snap-on and Motor Tool Specialty Company (Snap-on's distribution arm) established only two years after Snap-on to make tools that Snap-on was not making (e.g., end wrenches, punches, etc). Some of the tools were made by other mfgrs (Milwaukee Tool & Forge and Forged Steel Products), and some were made in a factory in Racine, Wis. Later, when the factory was merged with the Snap-on factory in Kenosha, it became a brand. But it was not a Craftsman/Dunlap thing. The tools were highest quality, just different types.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

New addition to my collection - look what was hiding under a thick layer of rust (the first wrench on top after I pushed off some rust with a glove). The second and the third pictures are after restoration

Nice find and nice save, Shelby! FYSA, the E44 was part of a 4-wrench electrical/ignition work set (No. 21) that came in a leatherette pouch. It was the second largest wrench in the set. See Pic 3 for the other sizes. I've been on the hunt for a No. 21 set for years. It is one of the last remaining Bonney wrench sets in pouches that I don't have. I think I have a straggler or two, but no pouch. They also put the same set in a larger electrical/ignition set (see Pics 1 & 2).

 

[dubdoc]

Thanks much for the history lesson. I learned a lot today.

Gray-Bonney was a wholly owned subsidiary of Bonney from 1933 to 1961. Bonney essentially bailed Gray out after it collapsed during the early stages of the Great Depression. The tools were identical or near-identical, using the same dies, except for final markings.

Blue-Point was never a second or economy line of tools to Snap-on. It was initially a separate company or subsidiary that the owners of Snap-on and Motor Tool Specialty Company (Snap-on's distribution arm) established only two years after Snap-on to make tools that Snap-on was not making (e.g., end wrenches, punches, etc). Some of the tools were made by other mfgrs (Milwaukee Tool & Forge and Forged Steel Products), and some were made in a factory in Racine, Wis. Later, when the factory was merged with the Snap-on factory in Kenosha, it became a brand. But it was not a Craftsman/Dunlap thing. The tools were highest quality, just different types.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

My pleasure. Welcome to the Vintage Board, by the way. The Stickie is a great place to start to get the lay of the land around here.

 

[Shelbylex]

Nice find and nice save, Shelby! FYSA, the E44 was part of a 4-wrench electrical/ignition work set (No. 21) that came in a leatherette pouch. It was the second largest wrench in the set. See Pic 3 for the other sizes. I've been on the hunt for a No. 21 set for years. It is one of the last remaining Bonney wrench sets in pouches that I don't have. I think I have a straggler or two, but no pouch. They also put the same set in a larger electrical/ignition set (see Pics 1 & 2).

Thank you, Lugz. I will keep an eye out for the rest of them.
The bottom of the box from which I got the wrench was filled with water at some point. The other two wrenches in the picture are Barcalo ones. I hope to clean them up this weekend.
The big pliers are Kleins - unfortunately rust ate through the metal and caused some pitting, but can make out the emblem now (could not see anything under rust). The grooves on the jaws looke like new (well, will see after I clean them up). Feel happy that I will be able to save some good tools from the dumpster...(even payed some money for them at yard sale. : )

...Barcalo ones cleaned and added to Barcalo Buffalo tools thread