Spreading the Bonney affliction!

[Private Lugnutz]

I don't recall you letting us know you had these paper editions before, JjKk40, so first and foremost, congratulations are in order - having the real thing as a collectible is awesome.

But I will quickly add my obligatory plea that you please scan or make No. 134 (1934), No. 136 (1936), and No. C-1 available to Mark Stansbury for scanning into IA/ITCL. No. 33 (1933) and No. 138 (1938) are both available, but it's a pretty long leap in between, which you can fill quite nicely.

Perhaps even more significantly, as I told you on my Lugzsonian thread, the only postwar catalog I am aware of in the public domain prior to the M-1 (1951) is No. 46-J (1946), and it's very thin and abbreviated. It has the feel of them hastily recovering their commercial operations from wartime. So a PDF of your reportedly 1947-dated C-1 would be very welcome. That 1946 to 1951 leap is also a big one we do a lot of derived guessing about.

As for the numbering scheme, I'll repeat what I told you on my Lugzsonian thread. I don't know why Bonney added the numeral "1" to some catalogs in the mid to late 1930's (apparently 1934 through 1939), but 1933 was No. 33 (note no "1" prefix) and all numbered catalogs prior to that used a two-digit convention, and they moved away from it back to a two-digit format at least as early as 1941 (No. 41).

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Atalog #41 is 1941 especially in 41 theres a sentence in the beginning saying 66 years anniversary (paraphrasing) which would be 1943 as long as my math isn't flawed with the year Bonney started.

Are you sure you're not misreading? Page 1 at the top of my No. 41 reads: "65 YEARS OF FINE TOOL MANUFACTURE". And 1876 + 65 = 1941. If yours actually reads the same or has a similar note that says "66" instead of "65", I would speculate that your No. 41 is a later edition, issued in 1942, and I would be very curious to do a page by page comparison. It could be a duplicate of the No. 41 issued in 1941, or it could perhaps be a later edition that they annotated as such somewhere in the front.

EDIT: Oh, and if you're getting "1943" from 1877 + 66, and your 1877 is coming from AA, I have no idea why they still cling to that. I sent them an email a looooong time ago, but, like ALL my emails, it was never replied to. I think it's based on them using the date of a periodical making a belated notice. Many Bonney catalogs and ads attribute their establishment to 1876, they built a lot of their marketing around that date for years, and it's also the 'first use' date for their first registered trademark.

 

[JjKk40]

Are you sure you're not misreading? Page 1 at the top of my No. 41 reads: "65 YEARS OF FINE TOOL MANUFACTURE". And 1876 + 65 = 1941. If yours actually reads the same or has a similar note that says "66" instead of "65", I would speculate that your No. 41 is a later edition, issued in 1942, and I would be very curious to do a page by page comparison. It could be a duplicate of the No. 41 issued in 1941, or it could perhaps be a later edition that they annotated as such somewhere in the front.

EDIT: Oh, and if you're getting "1943" from 1877 + 66, and your 1877 is coming from AA, I have no idea why they still cling to that. I sent them an email a looooong time ago, but, like ALL my emails, it was never replied to. I think it's based on them using the date of a periodical making a belated notice. Many Bonney catalogs and ads attribute their establishment to 1876, they built a lot of their marketing around that date for years, and it's also the 'first use' date for their first registered trademark.

Yes I mis-read yes #66 instead of the correct #65! Oooops! And yes, I was going off of 1877 from AA. Ill have to take the info from AA with a grain of salt from now on!
I looked on ITCL and C-1 is there. I couldn't find the other 3 but it isn't the easiest site to navigate through for me. I will make available anything I have for scanning, no doubt. Just let me know. Ill probably have to mail it out because I haven't a clue how to scan them into PDF?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Yes I mis-read yes #66 instead of the correct #65! Oooops!

Thanks.

And yes, I was going off of 1877 from AA. Ill have to take the info from AA with a grain of salt from now on!

It's a very handy resource, but there are many errors, some of them glaring.

I looked on ITCL and C-1 is there. I couldn't find the other 3 but it isn't the easiest site to navigate through for me.

Nor me. I'd prefer the catalogs and other publications to be presented chronologically and vertically (I'd rather scroll than dart my eyes around left and right and up and down), but maybe I'm just not using it properly. Thanks for letting me know about the C-1!

I will make available anything I have for scanning, no doubt. Just let me know. Ill probably have to mail it out because I haven't a clue how to scan them into PDF?

Best people to talk to about this are Mark himself (Mark Stansbury is his GJ username) or four.cycle.

 

[four.cycle]

JjKk please see your P/Ms.
BK

 

[LesserSon]

1876/1877
Depending on the contextual phrasing, the disagreement may or may not be an “error.” There is an inherent imprecision to the term “anniversary year,” because there is an underlying imprecision to the term “year.” In specific context, it can mean the span of 365 days beginning January 1, or to any period of 365 days, such as begins with a birth or founding date.
That second meaning is what is included in an “anniversay year,” so virtually every anniversay year spreads into two calendar years.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm not sure what "contextual phrasing" or "error" you are referring to, LS.

The top of page 1 in Catalog No. 41 reads: "65 YEARS OF FINE TOOL MANUFACTURE". There is another reference in the first paragraph on the same page that reads, "the culmination of 65 years of constant research for new and better tools."

I hear what you're saying about the difference between January 1 to December 31 in the same calendar year (e.g., 1876) and, oh, say August in one calendar year (e.g., 1876) through August of the next calendar year (e.g., 1877), but if you subtract 65 years from the year 1941, no matter if it's January, August, or December of 1941, you get 1876.

1876 is the date on the bottom of the oldest Bonney Vise & Tool Works catalog. 1876 is the year Bonney Vise & Tool Works and Bonney Forge & Tool Works repeatedly, consistently claim in print in multiple publications (catalogs and ads) as the year they were, literally, "established". And "1876" is literally (no month or day) the date Bonney Vise & Tools Works cited in their USPTO TM application, filed November 27, 1907, granted March 17, 1908, as their 'first use' commercial date for their first trademark, BONNEY in an arc, on a vise or tool.

Given all that, is there any other way to read this statement from Alloy Artifacts...

"The Bonney Vise & Tool Works was founded in 1877..."

...than wrong?

 

[four.cycle]

Well... you and I both know damn good and well that AA isn't always 100% accurate when it concerns founding dates of tool manufacturers, don't we ?

(earliest Bonney document I have had an "1890's" date on the file, which I think is inaccurate because of the Alford hand vise.)

 

[Private Lugnutz]

If questionable founding dates was AA's worse flaw, it wouldn't be so bad. One of his more fatally perpetuating flaws is paying too much attention to TM registration dates and not enough to the first use date or the details inside. That tendency wrecks several of his dating claims, Plomb/Proto to name one. But I digress.

 

[four.cycle]

^ We could start a whole new thread on AA errata. Yesterday I ran into another one on Walden's first wire ratchet.
I haven't heard back from him after the last exchange I had with him concerning New Britain/None Better/Handle Lock. Not sure if he made appropriate corrections or not.
When he mentioned he was working on Bethlehem I kind of giggled to myself. A few days later I took a look and was somewhat amused, to be honest... some guy in some place called "Lugzonia" has a much more complete collection and a far more comprehensive overview of the product line.

 

[LesserSon]

I'm not sure what "contextual phrasing" or "error" you are referring to, LS.

Apparently, you do:

is there any other way to read this statement from Alloy Artifacts...

"The Bonney Vise & Tool Works was founded in 1877..."

...than wrong?

Nope, though whether Bonney ads made the claim of 1876 once or a thousand times doesn’t make it more true. 1877 is probably a typo AA will not take ownership for.
It was me that didn’t know the context of the error you were reacting to. Now I do.
Sorry for not getting back before you put so much effort into amassing evidence. I’m distracted today by an ongoing texting debate with a buddy who won’t abandon the position that the dimension of 4x sheet goods is an artifact of manufacturing equipment and/or transportation logistics/infrastructure, rather than consumer demand. I’m using the 12oz beverage can as my analogy, and he has used dimensional lumber sawmills, coal canals, and lastly the Roman chariot / standard rail guage as his. I have prevailed in every instance, but he will not accept defeat with dignity. Or perhaps it is the other way around?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Haha. I'm so glad to hear I'm not the only one who has those kinds of days and debates. Usually it's one of my brothers. My kids just shake their heads, and when they hear me break out my 'importance of good, congenial dialectics on objectivity and personal development' speech, they leave the room.

Sorry for not getting back before you put so much effort into amassing evidence.

Not at all. Encouraged by some not altogether negative communications that 4.c has been having with the AA proprietor, I've been thinking about making 2022 the year I take a second stab at sharing my corrections with him. I already bookmarked my own post.

 

[JjKk40]

I’m so excited. Unicorns are beginning to herd.

Heres one for sale popped up on the bay I saw this morning....

Vintage BONNEY A-702K 1/2" drive ratchet with Tri-wing selector | eBay

In good used condition. Action has a little play which these are known for as they wear but is good and crisp and selector is easy to switch. Stamping on the shaft is very good. Has wear on the sides of the round head.

www.ebay.com

 

[Raineman]

Thats my listing. I’ve completed that portion of my collection, now I’m selling my extras.

I also have a 3/8” one listed. If anyone here is interested, send me a pm, I can pull the listing down and work a deal.

 

[Old Radar]

I thought that seller name couldn't be a coincidence.

 

[JjKk40]

Thats my listing. I’ve completed that portion of my collection, now I’m selling my extras.

I also have a 3/8” one listed. If anyone here is interested, send me a pm, I can pull the listing down and work a deal.

Gotchya! I didn't realize the name! Most of the time I don't even look at the name!!! GLWS!!!

 

[JjKk40]

Wish I lived in Virginia.... bad *** tool boxes

Bonney tools - tools - by owner - sale

Antique Bonney tools toolbox great condition, just needs to be wiped down…you won’t find this again anywhere

roanoke.craigslist.org

 

[Ricky Joe]

Wish I lived in Virginia.... bad *** tool boxes

Bonney tools - tools - by owner - sale

Antique Bonney tools toolbox great condition, just needs to be wiped down…you won’t find this again anywhere

roanoke.craigslist.org

Twenty miles from me. I sent the guy a message.

 

[JjKk40]

Twenty miles from me. I sent the guy a message.

Cool man I hope you can make something happen!

 

[LesserSon]

It’s always timing! I drove past there to and from Nashville this summer.

 

[genog]

Found this cool 1-1/16 Bonney today
I sure would like to find 7/16 through 1"
I wonder how long that's going to take me......

 

[outofbounds]

Found this cool 1-1/16 Bonney today
I sure would like to find 7/16 through 1"
I wonder how long that's going to take me......

Does that have the Circle CV after the Bonney?

 

[genog]

Yes indeed

 

[JjKk40]

Found this cool 1-1/16 Bonney today
I sure would like to find 7/16 through 1"
I wonder how long that's going to take me......

If you buy online theres a bunch for sale on the 'bay. Theres some with CircleCV and some of the newer style with no CV and USA instead of "made in usa". I probably have a bunch of extras too that I might be able to let go if your looking tovput something together!

 

[genog]

Thanks!
I would like to try to put a set together
PM sent

 

[saukit]

Here are a few Bonney pieces out of the Evaporust: 2 Bonaloy DBE's, ME2124 DOE, 1/2" Extension and B-hex T handle. Newer DOE and combos, small Zenel DOE and E1214 DOE.



This pic has a No. 8 (if I recall correctly) screwdriver and an older B shield "reverse gear wrench" for an old Ford maybe?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...an older B shield "reverse gear wrench" for an old Ford maybe?

Yes. I have a few hanging on my big board, and they were sold individually, but they were part of a 6-pc set that came in a leatherette roll-up labeled 'Ford Car Set' or something like that. I don't think an example of the roll-up has ever been found.

 

[LesserSon]

“Ford Owner’s Wrench Kit” No9
I haven’t seen the roll/pouch, either, except in catalog illustrations.

 

[JjKk40]

Was able to put together a descent set of 3/8 drive sockets thanks to member "outofbounds". I pieced together the other stuff. Need a few more deep sockets and I'm keeping my eye open for a socket box.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Well done.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Nice assortment! Picked up a 3/8 drive dayton branded ratchet.

 

[four.cycle]

1934 Bonney Catalog No. 134 now available for download at International Tool Catalog Library!

1937 Bonney Catalog No. 137 now available for download at International Tool Catalog Library!

1939 Bonney Catalog No. 139 now available for download at International Tool Catalog Library!

thanks to GJ member JjKk40!

thanks Mark!

 

[saukit]

Here's an interesting ell handle that might be pretty old if I'm interpreting AA correctly. It's stamped "GU", and is a bit different than the one posted by Jjkk above.

The combination of the CV and the "U" for the year code puts it at 1929? Does that sound right? Otherwise it would be from 1943 but I think Bonney dropped the CV by then, at least according to AA (again).

Either way it's in really nice shape for its age!

 

[JjKk40]

Here's an interesting ell handle that might be pretty old if I'm interpreting AA correctly. It's stamped "GU", and is a bit different than the one posted by Jjkk above.

The combination of the CV and the "U" for the year code puts it at 1929? Does that sound right? Otherwise it would be from 1943 but I think Bonney dropped the CV by then, at least according to AA (again).

Either way it's in really nice shape for its age!

Yes I have that style as well as the smooth one with the circle CV!

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I think date is worn off on mine. Here is some random cv stuff I have been collecting.

 

[JjKk40]

Nice stuff OTG!!!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I picked up another Bonney-made Wright Aeronautical wrench (800621) at the flea this morning. I've lost count now.

 

[LesserSon]

I bought a MB-76 chest today for $20. No label, no key. Needs a lot of cleanup.
It is an exact match to the 1957 catalog illustration. The 1950 illustration shows the same interior tray, but different side handles on the main box, and no glides on the two drawers. The 1960 illustration shows side handles like these, but a different interior tray.
Needs a lot of cleanup.

 

[JjKk40]

Nice score for $20!

 

[LesserSon]

Also this 7/8” across flats fixed socket tee for $1.