Square or Round poles for pole barn

[premierjax]

Hey guys I plan on going 12' up and was thinking about using 8x8 but at a cost of $90 each a 7"-8" telephone pole is under $50. Is there a reason why most pole type construction we see on here everyone is using the square post?

 

[MG44]

Are you serious...

 

[premierjax]

Not sure what you mean MG44, of course Im serious if I can use round poles with no issues I would rather save the money.

 

[stingry]

His comment was made to emphasize what a poor choice telephone/powerline poles would be for building a pole building. First of all, poles priced as you say are used poles and they took them out for a reason. Secondly they are generally tapered and not very straight. Thirdly, a round pole does not present a flat face to nail the girts to. Need I go on.

Most builders use laminated posts instead of solid. A laminated post is generally three 2x6's or 2x8's nailed together.

Cheers
Steve

 

[MG44]

How do you plan on nailing 2 x 4s, sheating, anything to round poles and make it look straight and not like some hillbilly structure built 70 years ago in West Virginia?

Use square poles, its not even worth the frustration and subpar results you are going to get with actual poles

 

[NHBandit]

It's fine. And you can use Blue tarps from the flea market instead of metal siding and PVC for air lines and personally I've always liked the look of **** carpeting under the welding table... You guys are being too hard on him.

 

[MG44]

I guess its still not as bad as the guy wanting to straighten up a set of rotors with an angle grinder

 

[premierjax]

Well thanks for all the smart *** replies!!! didnt know there were so many "construction gods" on this forum. This will be my first pole structure and I wasnt sure about the differences but I guess I know now!!! I humbly apologize for waisting your precious GJ surfing time!!!

 

[NHBandit]

Most of us were just messing with ya. You know.. joking... since you're new and all. If you plan to hang out here you'll probably want to grow some thicker skin. This ain't the quilting forum.. To give a serious answer to your question, it's a bad idea for all the reasons listed. Building a nice shop no matter what the size is a big investment. Cutting some corners is fine but starting off with a hokey cobbled together framework will only lead to more problems as you try to finish the build and will surely detract from any added value to your property. If a potential buyer sees the shop as an asset it will make it easier to sell later down the road. If they see the shop as an added expense that needs to either be fixed or torn down it will not. And welcome to our little home away from home. Is that better ?

 

[mooseracing]

You can use poles but it can be frustrating at times to get things lined up. We've built a few barns for round bale storage this way. You wouldn't know until you look inside.

Using 4x and 6x can be just as frustrating since they twist and turn every which way as well.

 

[premierjax]

Really.... Bandit, you mean I cant learn how to quilt here?

 

[70C-10]

Yes !
Round posts are not uniform in diameter. Nor are they perfectly straight. They have a taper from bottom to top. This will affect your wall in a negative way.

 

[NHBandit]

Really.... Bandit, you mean I cant learn how to quilt here?

Stick around. You probably can considering some of the threads we get asking about proper fashion selection, what color toolbox best matches my eyes, etc.

 

[spotco2]

We've used power poles before on barn builds and they work fine for some things.

They are a PITA to get straight and square though. If you are building a covered area to park under, they are ok. If you are planning on enclosing it, look at laminating post out of 2x lumber. I would not use solid 6x or 8x post.

 

[D KRAGER]

Well thanks for all the smart *** replies!!! didnt know there were so many "construction gods" on this forum. This will be my first pole structure and I wasnt sure about the differences but I guess I know now!!! I humbly apologize for waisting your precious GJ surfing time!!!

Don't listen to these guys knocking the telephone or power poles. My Grandpa built a couple of pole buildings 60 years ago with old power poles. Guess what, they are still standing.

 

[MG44]

Still standing but probably look like ***

 

[zkdiesel]

We built a 50x300x20 years ago from round poles. It
Was a pita , we made our own sawmill to put flat sides on them on which need it. Trusses all came Out of a government take down building and all tin was 2nds but that was all we could afford at the time. For the first year it was built with only roof as couldn't afford sides. It was straight and looked good, but took crazy amount of time to build. When we did put sides on it we had to shim in places with 2x4's but it looked good when it was done, and was only a hay storage building

Sure as he'll wouldn't build a small building with them!
We only did it because the business
Needed it "now" to keep going and wallet could
Afford it. That size of building we built required way more material than you could dream of

 

[sberry]

Thousands of pole bards are built with solid square posts, they don't need to be laminated.

 

[buddyboy]

yes you can build a pole barn using poles, even round poles.

they'll have a taper to them, so you'll need to figure out that taper and make a jig to attach to your level to get them plumb. or a jig on the top of the pole for yer plumb bob

anyway, since the poles will be wider at the bottom just notch for the girts and notch less as you go up till you don't have to notch no more.

that'll give you nice true outside walls

if you have more time than money, old telephone poles are the way to go. you save some $$$ but you have to take more time and use your head to figure things out.

good luck

http://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/build-a-pole-barn-zmaz95fmztak.aspx#axzz2hnxoLoZa

 

[larry_g]

Round poles are structurally sufficient to make a pole barn. In this country quite a few hay sheds are done that way. What you save in money up front you will loose some in labor during construction. Now the guys that need to have pretty as a condition of a building then round poles will not work as well. There are some here who think no pole building can meet their standards. You have to decide what your using the building for and the finish quality you want to present. There are a lot of structures out there with unmilled lumber.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Lippyp]

I'm intending to rebuild an existing outbuilding with telephone poles, at the moment it uses railroad ties but I want to make the eaves higher when I redo it. This will be half my forge and the other half storage for garden machinery, lawn tractor etc. As I'll only have 8' above ground the taper doesn't really bother me, if needs be I'll either notch them or shim the top girts. Loads of agricultural buildings around here ae made from them, my neighbour built up a business based on selling used poles and railroad ties to the agricultural industry.

I'd personally ignore some of the shittier replies above, some people on here don't understand that the rest of us don't have money to burn on a shiny operating theatre gin palace of a garage. People have been building buildings with round poles for centuries.

Maybe I'm just a british hillbilly whom likes rustic stuff.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Nothing "Mechanically" Wrong with Power poles. Go for it.

That being said, IMO the deciding factor would be what you want the finished product to be. In other words, as said...for hay storage, keeping your combine/seed drills out of the weather, its an excellent building material. If you're planning on eventually finishing, insulating, sheetrocking the interior, etc...I wouldn't go with the power poles.

Another thing I've seen is if you've got a friend with a portable saw mill...you can mill the poles square...at least the inside & outside faces...but IMO same holds true. If you just need dry storage..fine. Finished garage, I wouldn't.

 

[larry_g]

Hey guys I plan on going 12' up and was thinking about using 8x8 but at a cost of $90 each a 7"-8" telephone pole is under $50. Is there a reason why most pole type construction we see on here everyone is using the square post?

If you look at my building it is on 6x6 poles. Do you have climate/soil conditions that would demand a 8x8 ? Here is where having your location listed becomes important.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[premierjax]

Larry Im in Florida its pretty sandy soil and then clay or hardpan 2' down. I was told if Im going higher then 10' I would need 8x8

 

[premierjax]

Most of us were just messing with ya. You know.. joking... since you're new and all. If you plan to hang out here you'll probably want to grow some thicker skin. This ain't the quilting forum.. To give a serious answer to your question, it's a bad idea for all the reasons listed. Building a nice shop no matter what the size is a big investment. Cutting some corners is fine but starting off with a hokey cobbled together framework will only lead to more problems as you try to finish the build and will surely detract from any added value to your property. If a potential buyer sees the shop as an asset it will make it easier to sell later down the road. If they see the shop as an added expense that needs to either be fixed or torn down it will not. And welcome to our little home away from home. Is that better ?

Aw how sweet!!...... Your a real estate mogul as well, Damn youre just an all around smart guy, maybe you could give some advice on raising children or investing in a down economy. Keep the advice flowing bandit I'll be sure to check with you as my build progresses, you know to make sure I build this thing right.

 

[kbs2244]

They are called “pole barns” because they were originally barns built with round poles.
Not very weather tight and never heated.
After planting the poles, notches were cut to set the horizontals into.

When people wanted to make them prettier and more weather tight they went to the square “poles.”
Sometimes with the notches pre-cut to avoid working with saws at height.
They were easier to put siding on outside and inside.
But they needed more care in lining up and hole depth control.

For the OP I would suggest a compromise.
Get your poles and have some one with a portable band sawmill come and flatten two sides.
It should be well under $40.00 per pole.
(He will want to see you use a metal detector for nails and such.
Used poles are notorious for them.)
That will give you a flat surface for inside and outside walls.
When you plant them be sure to keep the flat sides aligned.
Get some scaffolding so you have a safe platform for sawing the notches.

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

@PREMIERJAX:

Yes, these are bunch of guys and some questions do tend to set them off at times. Sometimes you have to just ignore them and look for the more helpful responses. Reacting to them only feeds the trolls. Let their comments speak for themselves. If they wish to appear like 12 year old children, well, that's their choice.

I didn't know the answer to your question either, and some of the answers here were actually useful. I hadn't considered the taper of the pole to be an issue. That makes sense. As for round poles versus square- well, round poles were the standard for many decades, so I don't buy that argument. But times change. Now that square poles are available, yes, that would simplify mounting to the poles and may be worth the extra money just to have that ease of use. But that's a decision you'd have to make.

Personally, I think if I was going to be spending that much money, a little more for the square poles might be worth it to avoid the annoyance later.

 

[premierjax]

Wow... what a ****.... I tried. I won't muddy up your thread with a little humor mixed with good solid advice anymore. Have a nice day.

I LOVE IT!! " You really need to grow a little thicker skin if your going to hang around this board......This isnt a quilting forum!!" Seriously I was just returning the love, I was shown. Lets call it a truce

 

[premierjax]

vegaman, yeah thats what I didnt know originally about the taper, it would seem the legit replies here make sense on being alot more work in the long run. I think Ill just spend the money for square poles

 

[NHBandit]

Deal... Here's my 30x40x12. The builder set the 6x6 pressure treated posts on top of the slab. Not sure if that would help your situation with the soft ground in Fla. Also not sure if you're planning to build yourself or hire it out but mine without overhead doors and without the cost of the slab was 11.6k so I don't consider it to be one of those fancy high class garages that cost a small fortune. It was within my small budget and it does everything I need it to do. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=188161

 

[John Mc]

Depends on what the building will be used for, and what the neighborhood looks like. Sounds like what I want to do to build a forge shop in the country. Recycled everything and a dirt floor.

A tractor shed or similar in a rural area, great. A garage in an upscale area, not so much, especially if the neighbors think you are bringing down property values.

As they say in Maine: "Hard sayin', not knowin'." Need more details. Google Earth images, whatever you can provide.

 

[70C-10]

Get your poles and have some one with a portable band sawmill come and flatten two sides.
It should be well under $40.00 per pole.
(He will want to see you use a metal detector for nails and such.
Used poles are notorious for them.)

I called a local saw mill & they said they would cut my telephone poles for $50 an hour. If they wrecked a blade I would pay for it. That discouraged me since I can't imagine getting all the steel out of the poles. I don't have that much free time

 

[kbs2244]

I suggested a band saw mill because the blades are a lot cheaper to fix or replace in case you did find a nail.
The circular blade mills are faster, but the blades cost more.

And they can come to you.

 

[Mike in Ohio]

Larry Im in Florida its pretty sandy soil and then clay or hardpan 2' down. I was told if Im going higher then 10' I would need 8x8

Were told you 8x8 by an engineer or code inspector or by a bunch of cranky guys on the internet?

I am in Ohio. When I originally built mine 12 feet tall I used 6x6 in the corners and on each side of the 16' door (bearing wall). 4x6s for the rest of the posts. I am on clay soil. Posts are about 30" deep with 10-12 inches of concrete under them to be below the frost line.

Not saying your code doesn't require 8x8 it just seems a bit much.

The round posts will be more work but oftentimes we do it yourselfers do have to trade our labor for money savings when the budget is tight.

Have fun with your build and don't get too wound up by some of the guys here almost all of them mean well, but humor and sarcasm sometimes loose something in the typing!

 

[cardude56]

Larry Im in Florida its pretty sandy soil and then clay or hardpan 2' down. I was told if Im going higher then 10' I would need 8x8

Who told you ?
I am in central N.Y. and built a 14' high 30" X 56" on clay soil from a kit with plans with 6" x 6" solid posts . no problems

 

[Nighttrain]

8"x8". Probly more for wind loads in Florida.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Were told you 8x8 by an engineer or code inspector or by a bunch of cranky guys on the internet?

Not saying your code doesn't require 8x8 it just seems a bit much.

Who told you ?
I am in central N.Y. and built a 14' high 30" X 56" on clay soil from a kit with plans with 6" x 6" solid posts . no problems

Whether or not he needs 8x8 posts I don't know. It could be a possibility due to Florida getting hurricanes, like parts of Cali needing certain building specs due to earthquakes.

 

[383]

I've been building post frame buildings in VA for over 20 years. We have built a few with round poles, but it was usually for a reason. In an open front machine shed a round pole is less likely to have pieces broken off if it's bumped with a piece of machinery. By the way, around here the round ones are called poles and the square ones are called posts.

As for the requirement for 8x8's, we only use those if the truss span is greater than 60ft. I've built shops with 16' ceiling's with solid 6x6's, and up to 20' ceiling with laminated 6x6's. I know codes, building requirements are different in different parts of the country, but this works in VA.

 

[Carves]

Round versus Square ???

The money saved, buying the used poles ... will probably get spent dealing with "build issues".

.... Square is the way to go if you can ..


Having said that ... I'm partial to a nice, pole frame, garage ...

 

[premierjax]

Thanks for all the posts guys, I just talked to an engineer and he said 6x6's will be fine if thats the case I can get them for around $50 so not much more than poles. So it looks like I'll be doing 6x6 post. Thanks again for all the help