SquashCycle Bikes
- Thread starter Squashfest81
- Start date
slowtwitch73
Well-known member
ericm
Well-known member
That'll have 700c rims. You'd need to go to 650b rims to get 38s or 42s in there. Long reach brake calipers may reach that far or they may not.
You'll also need to lower gearing at the crank, that looks like 53/42 which is way too high for gravel. The FD braze on probably won't let you go much below 39t.
You may or may not be able to build or buy an adaptor to lower the FD but that will likely compromise the FD's position.
Down tube shifters would **** for gravel where you really want your hands on the bars but you can probably find cable stops to fit the braze ons.
On the plus side that's Giant's copy more or less of the small tube Vitus 979. Those have a comfortable ride for a race bike but are flexible (which is ok in my book, stiffness is overrated). Assuming it holds up under gravel use it'd be better than some other road race bikes of the same era. If they also copied Vitus's steep head tube angle it'll have really quick steering, which is probably not ideal for gravel though it never bothered me and I rode my Vitus off road fairly often.
^^^^^^^^^^^
100% Agree:
That’s exactly the reason I did not pull the trigger..........trying to make something that will have real life up pleasant compromises after its all done.
My real goal was not to ride true gravel but rather keep up with buddies on the road with a some what upright rider position ......because I have full suspension Mtn bike and beach cruiser. Currently run 60psi in the Mtn for these rides.....not great but it’s gets by.
I was looking a true gravel with flat bars and upright ride position. Full down ride riding position bothers my carpal tunnel and lower back because I am not young.
I wrote in another thread where my friend tried to run a true gravel bike on rooted rocky single track.......not crazy rough but far from smooth........he had the those similar unpleasant compromises in the other direction.
100% Agree:
That’s exactly the reason I did not pull the trigger..........trying to make something that will have real life up pleasant compromises after its all done.
My real goal was not to ride true gravel but rather keep up with buddies on the road with a some what upright rider position ......because I have full suspension Mtn bike and beach cruiser. Currently run 60psi in the Mtn for these rides.....not great but it’s gets by.
I was looking a true gravel with flat bars and upright ride position. Full down ride riding position bothers my carpal tunnel and lower back because I am not young.
I wrote in another thread where my friend tried to run a true gravel bike on rooted rocky single track.......not crazy rough but far from smooth........he had the those similar unpleasant compromises in the other direction.
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slowtwitch73
Well-known member
There's a quote from the way back.. probably Phil Ligget.. something to the effect that a pure climber on a Vitus was something to be feared in the mtns.
When I was a kid I found a Vitus in the local bike shop dumpster with a cracked chain stay. Anodized blue with bare al rear end.. even had Campy cups in it. It was the ultimate treasure.. my dad took it to his work and had one of the fab guys weld the stay.. he did a bangup job. I'm sure the dude was thinking wtf is this and how do I not melt it to kingdom come.
When I was a kid I found a Vitus in the local bike shop dumpster with a cracked chain stay. Anodized blue with bare al rear end.. even had Campy cups in it. It was the ultimate treasure.. my dad took it to his work and had one of the fab guys weld the stay.. he did a bangup job. I'm sure the dude was thinking wtf is this and how do I not melt it to kingdom come.
OP
Squashfest81
Well-known member
Slappy, I’m intrigued by the idea of switching free hubs. I need to explore that. Does it always require redishing? I need to disassemble a wheel and really see the parts laid out. I’ve got a bigger free hub mounted on a parts bent wheel. Think I’ll rip that apart and see what we got.
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Squashfest81
Well-known member
Showkey, I think it’s a 2000. Haven’t checked serial numbers though. It falls in my perfect vintage time of the mid 90’s to early 2000.
And on the gravel, you could toss some little nubby tires on it and rock it. Sure it’s a road bike, but with a more confident tire you’d be surprised where it can go.
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ericm
Well-known member
Vitus 979s were glued together with low temp epoxy. A skilled builder with experience and the proper jigs could use heat to remove and replace a tube. There was a guy on the east coast who did it. He also built his own 979 aluminum type frames after Vitus stopped. They were very similar to the later Vitus models with differences only nerds like me would notice. I've seen a couple on century rides.
I got mine in '87, right before I started racing. It was the lightest and cheapest pro frame one could get, and my Raleigh had cracked a seat tube. I was't as good a climber as I got later as a masters racer but I liked the 979 a lot. The flexibility was good most of the time (I can't sprint for **** anyhow) but it would sometimes headshake on descents. I learned to always grip the top tube with my knees.
I got mine in '87, right before I started racing. It was the lightest and cheapest pro frame one could get, and my Raleigh had cracked a seat tube. I was't as good a climber as I got later as a masters racer but I liked the 979 a lot. The flexibility was good most of the time (I can't sprint for **** anyhow) but it would sometimes headshake on descents. I learned to always grip the top tube with my knees.
slowtwitch73
Well-known member
Ericm.. I see Santa Cruz for location. You ride a Rock Lobster?
SlappyWhite
Well-known member
In short you have to do something, so yes...
Long story....
The higher capacity freehub (and sprocket) is "wider" in "steps", 6 and 7 are the same AFAIK, 8,9,10 speed freehubs are wider than 6,7 but all three freehubs are usually the same (there is some odd exceptions for them being the same--rare 10 speed specific freehub). 11+ speed is wider yet.
For the cassettes (not the freehub), a 10 speed is actually narrower than a 8 or 9 speed, it uses the same freehub body but with a spacer. 8,9,10 can of course go on an 11 with spacers. 6,7 cassette can go on the wider freehubs with spacers... but our question here is going the other way.
There are some machining options/tricks to get an 11 speed cassette on the slightly narrower 8,9,10 freehub. I had a thought that maybe I could do the same to get a 10 speed cassette (not 8 or 9) on a 7 speed freehub (remember the 10 speed cassette is slightly narrower than 9 speed) but it just won't work for me.
The wider freehub body (say swapping to a 8,9,10 replacing a 6,7) will add space on the DS shifting the rim and tire towards the NDS. The rim will no longer be centred. To keep the same drop-out spacing spacers need to be removed from the axle on the NDS. In some cases a mm or so of spacer may also need to be added to the DS if the new freehub has the bearing cup in a slightly different location (inboard).
But there are two options:
-Vintage steel frame. The rear hub spacing can be changed by cold setting the frame (within limits). In this case, lets say the new freehub shifts the rim 4mm towards the NDS. The frame HAD 130mm dropout spacing (say 90s steel). Replace the axle with the next wider size for 135mm MTB dropouts, cold set the frame to 135mm, check alignment of dropouts, hanger and the frame overall of course... Adjust the spacers on the DS and NDS to centre the rim and widen the set-up to 135mm. Cold set is no go for aluminum, CF etc. and if it is a "later" MTB it may already have 135mm spacing.
-Redish the wheel buy adjusting the spokes DS and NDS to shift the rim back to centre. Not all that hard to do but it falls between wheel truing skills and wheel building skills and may not be for all. Truing stand is a big help and a spoke tension gauge is also a really good idea to do it right, dishing tool will also help measure the centre but can be done without one. Basically slightly loosen all NDS spokes (roughly same amount) then tighten all DS spokes (same amount), measure, rinse and repeat. Follow proper building including spoke tension, etc. It will be different wheel to wheel and is sometimes worse with single wall rims but you have to watch that spokes don't push out past the ****** or bottom out in the ****** (or under-engage the ******), technically the DS is getting shorter and the NDS longer, but it is not a huge amount in effective spoke length.
SlappyWhite
Well-known member
I was thinking of buying the this for $200 and rerimming to fit 38-42mm tires.
Substitute for a $2k gravel bike ?
If you search out a steel frame (70s and some 80s) road bike that came with (or was sized to take as an option) 27 inch (630mm rims) tires you may be able to do this, but maybe not 42s. The 27s were typically 1X1 1/4 (~32mm) tires, they had clearance to spare and the rims were also 8mm taller compared to 622/700c (so more 4mm radius) and also had clearance to spare. The brakes will need an extra 4mm of reach for the smaller 700c/622 rims but that is usually not that hard to do with log reach brakes.
May need to cold set the rear dropouts to fit modern rear wheels as they will likely only be 126mm on the older frames (say 6 speed rear), if you go older yet 120mm!
BTW, my Bianchi project a few posts back is technically an early 90s 29er/700c MTB not a road bike (which is aka 622mm rims BTW), those tires are ~38mm wide(700c), not for frame reference but how big a 38 really is...
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For index shifting you can buy adapters that mount on the down tube shifter posts if they are brazeons (if they are clamped it usually will not work as well because they may move. You can also just buy the brazeon cable stops and silver solder (or actually braze) them on the frame...
Scope creep will drive the costs way up....might as well upgrade this or that....
ericm
Well-known member
I've seen plenty of Rock Lobster frames but I've never ridden one.
I forgot about cold setting... it's considered a no-no on glued aluminium frames.
Increasing the dish especially on a 130mm wheel which already has a lot can noticeably decrease reliability. Dish makes the non drive side spokes have less tension. If tension gets too low they fatigue and break.
(if you're interested in wheel building Jobst Brandt's book is still a good one though some of his opinions are old fashioned. BikeHubStore is a good source for parts).
I forgot about cold setting... it's considered a no-no on glued aluminium frames.
Increasing the dish especially on a 130mm wheel which already has a lot can noticeably decrease reliability. Dish makes the non drive side spokes have less tension. If tension gets too low they fatigue and break.
(if you're interested in wheel building Jobst Brandt's book is still a good one though some of his opinions are old fashioned. BikeHubStore is a good source for parts).
SlappyWhite
Well-known member
Yes cold setting is a welded steel frame (lugged or not) thing only. No for aluminum, carbon fibre, titanium, vibranium.....
Spoke tension. IMO that is why I say it falls between actual wheel building and just truing skill wise. I do recommended using a tension gauge and setting up the wheel properly when changing the dish.
As for dish, it comes down to the specific hub and rim combo of course so there are no absolutes but the irony IMO is many seven speed wheels changed this way still have a more conservative, or basically the same "dish" compared to similar wheels that started at 10 speed from the factory (both DS and NDS)! Put the hubs side by side and most will be shocked that the manufacturers did not really change flange spacing, they basically did just what we are talking about. Yet I have been told so many times that it cannot or should not be done because of dish... There will be combos of course where it is true it will not work, I have not hit one yet with typical 32/36 spoke seven speed hubs.
Sometimes it is better to get out the tools (including measuring) and see what will and will not work with your hands and mind.
Wheel building is something IMO everyone that does more than basic bike maint should learn. Lots of good resources these days, what is great about having some old worn out rims is they can be taken apart and assembled over and over for practice before doing something that matters. It seems daunting at first, it is actually not all that hard for people that can use tools (and an excuse to buy some....).
Spoke tension. IMO that is why I say it falls between actual wheel building and just truing skill wise. I do recommended using a tension gauge and setting up the wheel properly when changing the dish.
As for dish, it comes down to the specific hub and rim combo of course so there are no absolutes but the irony IMO is many seven speed wheels changed this way still have a more conservative, or basically the same "dish" compared to similar wheels that started at 10 speed from the factory (both DS and NDS)! Put the hubs side by side and most will be shocked that the manufacturers did not really change flange spacing, they basically did just what we are talking about. Yet I have been told so many times that it cannot or should not be done because of dish... There will be combos of course where it is true it will not work, I have not hit one yet with typical 32/36 spoke seven speed hubs.
Sometimes it is better to get out the tools (including measuring) and see what will and will not work with your hands and mind.
Wheel building is something IMO everyone that does more than basic bike maint should learn. Lots of good resources these days, what is great about having some old worn out rims is they can be taken apart and assembled over and over for practice before doing something that matters. It seems daunting at first, it is actually not all that hard for people that can use tools (and an excuse to buy some....).
OP
Squashfest81
Well-known member
Got some parts ordered for the Stumpy to see if the 42 tooth can work with the derailleurs I have. I’m not feeling optimistic. 38 tooth will totally clear.
Anyone work a 42 with a mega 9 drive hung on a goat leg?
Dove into the GF combine and 1 by today. Got some parts off including the bottom bracket. It all appears to be going as planned. Cleaning as I go.
Anyone work a 42 with a mega 9 drive hung on a goat leg?
Dove into the GF combine and 1 by today. Got some parts off including the bottom bracket. It all appears to be going as planned. Cleaning as I go.
SlappyWhite
Well-known member
On my roadbike (Giant TCR) I used a 9 speed XTR long cage rear mech and still needed a hanger extender to clear a 36 cassette on that bike. The jockey wheel was just touching the big rear sprocket with full b-screw. I considered but did not reverse the b-screw (or use a longer one) instead of the extender, which would have made up the difference. I am also running the XTR 10 tooth jockey (some are 11 which also reduces clearance).
If you use a hanger extender it is a good idea to check overall hanger alignment. If a hanger alignment tool is not available you can use the spare rim method to eyeball it. I pretty much check the hanger alignment whenever I remove rear mech these days (extender or not) as I find them to pretty much always be off a bit and it is easier to dial in shifting when they are true.
If you use a hanger extender it is a good idea to check overall hanger alignment. If a hanger alignment tool is not available you can use the spare rim method to eyeball it. I pretty much check the hanger alignment whenever I remove rear mech these days (extender or not) as I find them to pretty much always be off a bit and it is easier to dial in shifting when they are true.
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I have an old Jamis Dakota I made it into a flat bar hybrid with XT shifters and deore front and rear derailleurs and a road cassette, and a mtb crankset. Works well. Uses 700x23s and 105 brakes. Needs a different fork as the current fork or headset as there is some slop in there that shows up as slight fore aft movement when holding the front brake. At this point I want to just let it go to someone who can use it as I have replaced it with my gravel bike. The best part of the whole bike to me is the super sweet burnt orange color of the feame.
SlappyWhite
Well-known member
It is possible the that the slop can be fixed by adjusting the headset bearings.
Well I went from a threaded mtb fork to a new headset and a threadless 1 inch fork. Never was able to dial out the slop. I know switchingnback to a threaded fork I could easily get rid of it. Both the fork and the headset were really cheap **** from Amazon years ago when I built the bike. At this point, I want to put it into thebhands of a kid that wants to learn and help them correct it and have a nice bike to ride.
SlappyWhite
Well-known member
Where are you located?
There may be someone here that fixes and donates bikes to kids, I do in the Toronto area.
OP
Squashfest81
Well-known member
Got the Gary Bitter all torn down. Parts cleaned and ready.
Going to pull some decals and clean the fork, get the 11 speed hub on the rear wheel, and put it all together on the Sugar 4 frame.
Going to pull some decals and clean the fork, get the 11 speed hub on the rear wheel, and put it all together on the Sugar 4 frame.
OP
Squashfest81
Well-known member
Back to the Stumpy. She’s all Chinese 9 speedy.
I tossed the new chain on as a proof of concept with a 32 tooth cog. Knowing nothing about the whole giant 40 tooth cassette, it was way too low for me. Went back to the largest cog on the stock Stumpy group. Going to run that and see about the hills. I’m pretty flat by the ocean, so it may be just fine.
I tossed the new chain on as a proof of concept with a 32 tooth cog. Knowing nothing about the whole giant 40 tooth cassette, it was way too low for me. Went back to the largest cog on the stock Stumpy group. Going to run that and see about the hills. I’m pretty flat by the ocean, so it may be just fine.
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OP
Squashfest81
Well-known member
Dude, a pink Proflex! Save it. They are very cool.
I’ve been watching this one on the Facebook for a week. He wants like $300 and it needs the elastomers. If it was that pink one I’d be messaging him.
I’ve been watching this one on the Facebook for a week. He wants like $300 and it needs the elastomers. If it was that pink one I’d be messaging him.
Bigblue&Goldie
Well-known member
Are the elastomers available? The Pro-Flex were really cool back in the day. My friend had a later model one with Magura's, which was the hot ticket at the time.
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Squashfest81
Well-known member
Googling shows that elastomer replacements are around. The forks are super spacey cool looking. I’ll be keeping watch for one.
slowtwitch73
Well-known member
Better make sure the rebuild kits are available for the forks.
Those things are the Dyson Vacuums of the bike world.
Those things are the Dyson Vacuums of the bike world.
brayanokorner
New member
Amazing BMX thanks for the amazing ideas.
Bigblue&Goldie
Well-known member
Just got done putting this together.....
- Rift Pro 24" Frame
- Sinz 175mm cranks
- Answer wheelset
- Maxxis DTH 24x1.75" tires
- Shimano brakes
- Box Components bars, forks, and small parts
I got tired of just watching my 5yo ride, so I decided to start my BMX career 30 years late. My mountain bike riding buddies are speculating I break myself on the first double. I don't disagree.
- Rift Pro 24" Frame
- Sinz 175mm cranks
- Answer wheelset
- Maxxis DTH 24x1.75" tires
- Shimano brakes
- Box Components bars, forks, and small parts
I got tired of just watching my 5yo ride, so I decided to start my BMX career 30 years late. My mountain bike riding buddies are speculating I break myself on the first double. I don't disagree.
Attachments
Toom kids to the pump track yesterday. They were doin good, until my 5 y/o came out of the track at a pretty good clip and ran into a light post head on. Wasnt as bad as it looked. But that cut the day short. On a good note I cleared almost all the jumps on the big jump line and a buddy got video of it so I got to see it myself!
OP
Squashfest81
Well-known member
Xti, it’s hard to watch that stuff. My almost 10 year old girl competed in her first jujitsu NAGA competition this morning. It’s one thing to watch her mess around at the gym with her crew, but a whole different thing in a competition with some random hungry kid.
Anyway, she was awesome!
Got tires switched onto the 50’s Klunker. I need that arm thing for the coaster brake. Can you just buy the arm? Universal? Who is the GJ 50’s coaster brake expert?
Anyway, she was awesome!
Got tires switched onto the 50’s Klunker. I need that arm thing for the coaster brake. Can you just buy the arm? Universal? Who is the GJ 50’s coaster brake expert?
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Squashfest81
Well-known member
Oh, love the rusty wheels and look!
Best way to preserve? Clean and boiled linseed oil, like I hear on GJ for everything?
Best way to preserve? Clean and boiled linseed oil, like I hear on GJ for everything?
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OP
Squashfest81
Well-known member
I had saved a nice chrome 20in coaster brake wheel with the intention of tossing it on the Ox muscle bike. Maybe the coaster brake arm off it’s rusty wheel would work on the Klunker. Yup, just rusty enough.
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Squashfest81
Well-known member
Rainy morning adventure to grab this Wrights saddle off the same dude I got the Brooks from. Not sure what it will go on, but for 15 bucks...
Clean up pics to follow.
Clean up pics to follow.
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Squashfest81
Well-known member
Saddle soap clean and mink oil.
Lookin good squash! Flipped my Commencal the other day on the trail. Not only did I bend the hanger, but I also trashed the rear derailleur. So i finally got a hanger ordered, and rear derailleurs are on backorder everywhere apparently. Managed to snag one off Amazon. Was only 2 left so I grabbed it up. Hoping I can get it back together before this comin weekends camping trip.
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Squashfest81
Well-known member
Jeep is looking good Xti! Liking the teardrop.
We purchased a camper to escape the world and get the kiddos unplugged. It’s been great. Booked a week of just off the beach camping this season, no power or water, and I couldn’t be more excited. Just swimming, sunning, biking, and beer.
We purchased a camper to escape the world and get the kiddos unplugged. It’s been great. Booked a week of just off the beach camping this season, no power or water, and I couldn’t be more excited. Just swimming, sunning, biking, and beer.
ntsqd
Well-known member
Thot y'all might be interested in these bikes of mine.
Built this as a study break in college. It's a porker at about 35 lbs., but it is the smoothest riding bike I've ever ridden.
The dual disc single speed MTB that I built while at school in Chico about 1997:
About that trailer, I noticed that while living in Chico that the only time that I started the car and didn't leave town was to go to the grocery store. I rarely bought more than 3 bags worth of groceries, so I built the trailer to hold exactly that. A friend who now works for Bell/Giro/etc. donated the bike carrier and it was simple to make it clip onto the trailer. Towing a bike on a bike trailer with another bike, that always drew some looks!
Built this as a study break in college. It's a porker at about 35 lbs., but it is the smoothest riding bike I've ever ridden.
The dual disc single speed MTB that I built while at school in Chico about 1997:
About that trailer, I noticed that while living in Chico that the only time that I started the car and didn't leave town was to go to the grocery store. I rarely bought more than 3 bags worth of groceries, so I built the trailer to hold exactly that. A friend who now works for Bell/Giro/etc. donated the bike carrier and it was simple to make it clip onto the trailer. Towing a bike on a bike trailer with another bike, that always drew some looks!
OP
Squashfest81
Well-known member
Ntsqd, those are some nice looking rides. Like towing your off road rig to the trail. Makes perfect sense to me. And sweet FJ60!