Starting tools

[Anyas47]

Hey I'm new to the forum and i love all tool boxes and garages on here.

I'm training in auto mechanics and I'm starting to put together the tools I'll be needing. Unfortunately I'm not blessed with a lot of cash at the moment. Is it worth buying a cheaper brand of tools to start out with until i get a decent cash flow or should i just bite the bullet and get some matco or snap ons?

Thanks!

 

[cdseven95]

I wouldn't go out and buy 20k+ of snap on if your just starting out....

I wouldn't finance anything off the truck.... Although if you are still in school the prices are more reasonable on Snap ons website...

Buy decent air tools.... ex...Higher end IR

Get a couple decent socket sets.... If you don't have much cash craftsman can work

I am not a big fan of craftsman's current rackets .... Id probably go Snapon for that..

Anything you need to borrow from a co worker go out and buy



Basically its not fun to be working only to pay for your tools.... Unless they are for just your personal use

 

[Anyas47]

I suppose keeping 20 k worth of nice snap ons at a dealership is kinda stupid. I've been using my dads assortment of tools for awhile now and i just want some of my own... so i can name them

 

[Lump]

Welcome aboard.

And, WOW, have you ever opened YOURSELF up for some serious opinions and related debates! LOL

Anyway, unless you are very well heeled, then you are probably like most of us when we started out, and not in a position to afford all the tools you'll need in all the top brands. So getting a list together and getting some decent imported tools, some used tools, and a few new "truck brand" tools (on credit, presumably), is probably the way I would recommend. (You will NEED to have a good relationship with a GOOD truck-tool dealer...believe me). Take it slow and easy, if you're a student now. You won't need all the tools all at once, and it is easy to get yourself deeply in debt. Indeed, make sure you will still love this career field two years from now, before mortgaging your life away.

There is one opposite viewpoint to be considered, however. You may qualify for a discount from Snap On and/or other truck brands while you are still a full-time student. So you may want to take advantage of that.

But to summarize MY opinion, you would be much better served with a hodge-podge of used, Asian-imports, Craftsman, and other tools in the beginning, and then to slowly upgrade as your budget allows to finer tools which will last you a lifetime. You may find that you need to replace certain cheaper tool types right away, as you will use them a lot. Others may not get used quite so often, and they can wait till later, when your budget is stronger.

 

[Lump]

PS: You know, there are some scholarship dollars available for young automotive students...particularly students who are willing to commit to a career in the world of high performance, or aftermarket accessories, hot rods, etc.

I spent some time on the SEMA Board of Directors, and it was surprising how difficult it could be to find candidates to offer funds to.

Check out their website, at www.sema.org for details.

 

[Case IH]

go with used tools or craftsman

 

[Anyas47]

Sound advice indeed, i was thinking maybe i could get some craftsmans and then give them away to a student when i want to replace them. When i started working on cars a few years ago i went out to buy a few sockets and couldn't believe i got a whole set for 20 dollars. Until they started rounding my bolts and wearing down. I currently need a set of air tools for my first job, because i have none. (and some brake servicing equipt)

I'm the first person in my family to really get into this industry and I'm looking for help wherever i can get it. Tools are a main concern right now.

 

[Anyas47]

PS: You know, there are some scholarship dollars available for young automotive students...particularly students who are willing to commit to a career in the world of high performance, or aftermarket accessories, hot rods, etc.

I spent some time on the SEMA Board of Directors, and it was surprising how difficult it could be to find candidates to offer funds to.

Check out their website, at www.sema.org for details.

Thanks very much i will check this out!!

 

[crewchief888]

for as many responses this thread wil get, you'll get just as many opinions on tools.

as mentioned, buy quality air tools, they'll last you a long time.
and dont jump on the tool truck and buy everything in sight.

IR 231 impact is a good bang for the buck.
CM pro wrenches are an improvement over the raised panels.
screwdrivers are a personal preference on grip type, find something you like
grey pnuematic or sunex are good values for sockets, and lifetime warranty
channelock or knipex for pliers
HF has a decent quality 41" roller cab, and service cart plenty of reviews here on GJ.

buy what you need as you need it, big shiny toolboxes, full of shiny tools comes later, after you decide if this is the line of work you want to do.

building a tool collection takes time, and patience, flea mkts, swap meets, auctions, CL, ebay, and the GJ classifieds can be a cheaper way to get what you want/need.

i'm considered a "professional", been wrenching on const eq for over 25 years, cars, trucks & dirt bikes for another 10 years before that.

are my boxes full of truck brand tools? yes
do i have HF, duralast, and many more off shore brand tools? yes

they all serve a purpose in one way or another.

btw welcome to GJ

 

[Jeff]

I'm not a pro, but I can tell you that you are getting excellent advice from the pro's here on GJ.

Buy what you can afford and upgrade later when it breaks. And like they said, stay away from any credit. You don't want to be in debt for 20k in tools and then decide you don't like wrenching.

 

[Anyas47]

Thanks crewchief, i hope i didn't cause a big flame war i wasn't trying to troll or anything. I honestly have very little opinion on the subject as I've never bought many tools. Are second hand tools safe to buy? I mean what do you buy second hand, the snap ons high quality or what ever you can find?

I've read a few posts on tool boxes and how to organize them that are very useful!

 

[Theloniousmonk]

+1 to everything posted thus far... you can find alot of fine quality tools for a very fair price... don't rule out german/euro brands either - there are ALOT of great high-quality tool deals in that arena too. Use every available outlet (gj, amazon, pawn shops, etc...) for new and used. IMO, there is no reason to drink the uber high dollar koolaid to have a fine tool set to begin with and use daily and be proud of. Definitely make a list of the specialty tools you end up borrowing.

Wright makes great wrenches/sockets/ratchets at good retail price.
Felo makes a great screwdriver (I use mine quite often).
SK deals are out there (and more hopefully soon)...
Nothing wrong w/ Cman sockets either - but get a good ratchet as stated above.

 

[Jason Ga]

When I got my first job as a tech in a large shop, I started with one of those 200 or something piece sets from Craftsman, the $300 combo tool box, a 1/2" impact and a set of Craftsman metric deep impacts.

I did very quickly replace the ratchets. I had never been on a tool truck until my first week on that job. The guy who got me started was a small shop, and he had supplied all the tools.

 

[Anyas47]

Great advice so far, i have a question about Air Ratchets. My teacher tells me that they make the job so much quicker and making more money. I like wrenches more, because you have a less chance of damaging bolts. but anyway, what's a good one to start with another IR brand? I will spend a few pennies on good air tools since they are common place.

 

[StarsofPleiades]

I am also a student and if you're school is participating you should be able to sign up for Snap Ons student program found here http://www1.snapon.com/sep which will give you about a 50% discount on good quality tools for a more reasonable price. Matco also has a student program with similar deals found here http://www.matcotools.com/TechEd/. The price on some of this stuff is lower then a good condition used version of the same thing on ebay or other used markets and I would recommend signing up. However there are still other places to find good deals besides those two site. Good luck with the tool shopping.

 

[crewchief888]

Thanks crewchief, i hope i didn't cause a big flame war i wasn't trying to troll or anything. I honestly have very little opinion on the subject as I've never bought many tools. Are second hand tools safe to buy? I mean what do you buy second hand, the snap ons high quality or what ever you can find?

I've read a few posts on tool boxes and how to organize them that are very useful!

most of what i buy anymore is "used".
the older i get the less i want to spend on anything

swap meets, flea mkts, and i have a used/surplus type tool store local to me.

i have some tools at the shop i work at, in my service truck, in the garage, in the house, and a few scattered in the wifes car and my truck.
i keep finding easier, faster ways to do my job, and occasionally buy a few tools to make life easier.
ive been finding a lot of NOS sk, blackhawk, and stanley hand tools over the last year or so. most of them at 30% -50% off retail.
only new "off the truck" tool ive bought in the last year was a SO 3/8" dr long flexhead ratchet, and that was only to replace a pos mac ratchet.

if you just have to get on a truck, spend your money on 3/8" dr & 1/2" dr ratchets.
as far as air tools, IMHO
IR 231, and it's 3/8"dr little brother ir212?
SO far72 air ratchet
SO ph2050 ? air hammer

most of my other air tools are BP, astro, cp, and central.
i havent bought a new air tool since '94, and only the SO air hammer has been repaired.

 

[airbuff101]

Welcome Anyas.

Here's what I did a few years ago when my son entered Automotive school.

He was probably about your age and I wasn't sure if he would like the profession ..or not. The school gave us 2 choices for tools (to be purchased through them) and both were 2 drawer hand carry boxes with the absolute basics. A) NAPA set for 1300.00. B) Snap On set for 2300.00.
Both sets were very similar(and lacking) in content.
I told them that I would be putting together my sons set.
The administrator looked terribly perplexed and said that he had never heard of that before....................
He worried that my son would not have everything he needed. ........................
I told him not to worry.
I bought one of these at the flea market for 20 bucks:

I filled the box with quality used tools of both U.S and European origin that I had gathered over the years. All the basics in the 3 drive sizes and all conceivable specialty tools that a young mechanic would need.
Granted, the box was bursting and weighed north of 60 lbs.
While he was in school his box was constantly borrowed from because the other guys didn't have what they needed in their school sets. He told me many times that he was surprised to find the tools that he needed in that box....almost every time. I added here and there when he came home on weekends.
I had $150.00 in that toolset.... It was all top quality, though some were 40 years old....
Here's the kicker:
As kids dropped out of the course for any number of reasons, my son bought up each 2300.00 Snap On toolset for an average of 300.00 apiece (he worked in local shops while going to school there).
He ended up with 3 or 4 SO toolsets and still uses them every day.
He is a BMW Cert. Master Tech/ASE Master and has a full shop at home too.
He bought a big used Cornwell bench box for cash.
He bought a nice used car..cash.
Loves the automotive business and at 22 bought his own home.

I would honestly suggest that you buy one of the larger Craftsman toolsets when on sale which works out to about 1.00 a tool. They will work just fine.
Find a nice used carry box and put that stuff in it. Add extras as you can.
Concentrate on the learning, not the flash.
If you knew my particular background in tools, it might be considered..Blasphemy.......but true.
Anyas, it is easy to become quickly jaded on a tool forum like this one. Lots of knowledgeble folks that can articulate well on the various subtleties of any number of brands and tool types. You will do well to get just what you need in good quality tools w/o spending much money right now. Learn to recognize good tools by brand (there are only a hundred or so brands to memorize.......) and don't get too caught up on what us ponchy, middle aged guys think is "The Best". If you like the business, You will soon be telling US what works and what doesn't!
Rob

 

[ToddyB]

Anyas47, What they said. All the posts are right on target and pretty close to how I built my set as a young mechanic. BTW I left the trade after 4 years and paid my Snap-on man for another 2 years after. Get what you need but what you can afford. That way if you move on you can afford to, and still feed any acquired tool addiction.

 

[crewchief888]

i think airbuff hit the nail on the head

ask 10 guys what the best of any tool is, and you'll get 10 different answers.

an inexpensive CM set will get you started, add your "needed" tools. replace what you dont like, or most used tools with something <better> when you can afford to do it, that way you're not carrying a huge truck balance, that can follow you around if you get laid off, fired, or decide this isnt the life for me.

most of the SK tools i started out with have long since retired from active working duty, and have their place with home garage tools.

as a side note, you'll probably loose more tools than you will break,
at least i do

 

[Skin]

if you're just starting then mobility should be one of your priorities. I'm not sure i'd second stuffing 60lb of tools into a cantilever box [which would drive me insane from an organization stand-point, not to mention all the bending over] but i could very easily suggest looking into a decent service cart. >>See recent thread.<<

Mobility matters for a few reasons. You may not get a job right away, you may get a job which may not work out. You may get a job that has you rotating bays. Dealing with any of that becomes much harder if you've got some ginormous box. Once you get situated then its box shopping time. A service cart remains useful through-out a career especially if you get stuck in flat rate. You'll learn what tools are required for a job and pack your cart with those, saves you from doing trips back and forth to the box.

As far as tools on a budget. I'll second one of the Cman mechanics sets. They have some pretty huge ones. Impact sockets i'd look at Sunex/Grey Pneumatic. If you have a taste for the truck brands or COO issues start hunting through ebay and CL.

i have a question about Air Ratchets. My teacher tells me that they make the job so much quicker and making more money. I like wrenches more, because you have a less chance of damaging bolts. but anyway, what's a good one to start with another IR brand? I will spend a few pennies on good air tools since they are common place.

If you're doing flat rate you need an air ratchet. Saves you quite a bit of time. Its one of my most hated tools. It slams your hands into objects and sounds horrible. Honestly even though it just came out and is still very expensive were i in your position i'd happily spend the extra cash for the new IR Hammerhead impact ratchet. Back a ratchet into an obstruction and/or have your hand smashed into the frame work a few times all while going a little bit more deaf and you'll see the light too.

One word of caution with any moderately powerful air ratchet though is it will tear up cheap chrome sockets.

 

[Case IH]

Around by me you can almost always find a Auto Tech student drop out box they are almost always 26in Craftsmans with either craftsman or HF tools and the add says that either them or there son has dropped out of the auto tech program and has no use for the tools(No use for tools WTF??)....One of these kits might be a good jumping off point The craftsman ones I mean and they are yusually pretty cheap off CL

 

[Big Vic]

Hey I'm new to the forum and i love all tool boxes and garages on here.

I'm training in auto mechanics and I'm starting to put together the tools I'll be needing. Unfortunately I'm not blessed with a lot of cash at the moment. Is it worth buying a cheaper brand of tools to start out with until i get a decent cash flow or should i just bite the bullet and get some matco or snap ons?

Thanks!

I've been working on diesel trucks for 7 years now and in that time I found that good tools really don't have to cost as much as Snap-On, Matco etc... Northern/Harbor Fright/Craftsman makes some good tools for cheap also pawn shops has good deals on tools and in this economy going that route isn't so bad. What I like about Snap-On, Matco and the rest is that you can get tools and not have to pay for them all up front but in doing you debt goes up and up and up I've been paying Snap-On for 7 years straight 85$ a week thats over 30,000+ but my Snap-On guy gave me NO LIMIT on what I can buy and its a constant 85$ a week and trust me I used that to the MAX I had 2 accounts one with him and the other with Snap-On. My advise to you don't spend a fortune on tools unless you have to. I bought Snap-On because I wanted the best...I have no complaints about my tools or what I payed for them.

 

[Bran Diezel]

how much is your budget and i will tell you exactly what you need.

i have 4 mac tool boxes loaded to the gills with SO and recently got a HF cart that i put my main every day tools in and went 1 week without having to dig into my big drawers. so you really don't need much starting out.

 

[leod]

Thanks airbuff101 for the insightful comments. I would suggest OP to re-read what he posted

you are a student and should invest in yourself first and don't stay in this forum too long, you'll be distracted with too many shiny tools.

 

[noonehas]

I would def look for deals on used snap on, matco, mac sets like ebay or cl. And like others have said get into something mobile. I started with a 26" top and bottom, then moved to a 40" to 54" now i have a 72". And trust me the bigger the box harder to move. But I will say one thing and I think most the pro techs will agree, buy quality tools when you can. And buy the most common stuff first. I have friends that buy huge sets and don't have money for the tools they really need. Good luck with school and happy wrenching.

 

[Ritter4.0]

I don't use my tools at work all that often, but it is nice to have them when I need them. I usually push buttons on the CNC routers, and don't NEED more than a handful of tools. I second hitting up the pawn shops before the tool truck/ store. It also pays to check the tools section on Craigslist and your local news website on your lunch breaks everyday. Every once in a while you find a mini gold mine that someone doesn't know they have.

I probably still have under $1000 in all my tools including the cost of my boxes, and the ones in my jeep bag. Aside from Stanley, Duralast, and some Kobalt, most of it is older, used USA stuff.

And brand loyalty only costs you more. Pick and choose what you know is good (and what is cheap enough to test for quality, ex. Duralast tools), whether its Taiwan, USA, or European, a good tool is a good tool.

 

[csargents1546]

Also check out IR website, they also have student discounts for air tool kits. found the website.
www.airtool-online.com www.airtool-online.com

You will need to submit for a code or get one from your teachers at school. good prices wished I had know about it while I was in school. CL is an awesome place to score some good deals, have to watch out for the people that want to get near full price. I was able to score a set of SO flank drive mm wrenches, ratcheting wrenches, lock pick set compression tester for 300 dollars. I figured it out new would have been over 1000.
Good luck and welcome to the forum and the field hope it work right for you

 

[Two dollar steak]

One thing you may soon realize, is you don't absolutely HAVE to have every tool on the truck. Many will make certain jobs easier, for maybe a little faster. Personally, I try to really verify the "must have" status of any tool before I sink the cash on it. 95% of you speed on the work you turn will come from experience, not ratcheting half moon wrenches.
Techs and tools can quickly turn into a ******* contest pretty fast. Do you really need a 5k Matco box on your first day on the job? How do you know you're even going to like the profession long-term? I've seen techs spend 2500 on the truck and not have enough tools to fill a shoebox. Same guys gave me **** about working with my small roll around, and a 4 drawer tote box, filled with Craftsman and some other mid-range brands, but two or three times a week they want to borrow something that they don't have, even though they have 10-15x more invested in tools than I do.

 

[hammergodthor]

My advice is to make a list of what you need and what you want and prioritize it, so you buy the more needed stuff first, instead of buying helter-skelter and wishing you'd spent your money better later. We've talked about this on here before; many of us keep lists of tools we're looking for in our wallets to help stay on track when we enter a pawn shop.

Also, I'd consider buying the tools you will be using more, say metric socket sets and ratchets with your student discount from the tool companies, and buy the common tools, like screwdrivers, hammers, and pliers from much cheaper sources.

Lastly, watch Ebay and Craigslist closely to know how much things are worth, so you know a good deal when you find it. I have found many things from Snap On are cheaper new with a student discount than used on Ebay or pawn shops, but your mileage will vary, it depends on what you're looking for. The bottom line is, if you're patient good deals are out there. Good luck!

 

[adcrawfo]

I'll 3rd the IR 231 impact. Bought one for at work and I have yet to have it let me down. It's a bit on the loud side but it gets the job done. Also buy the better ratchets. I stripped out a craftsman 3/8" at work, bought a snap on and have been kicking myself for having not gotten one sooner.

 

[sberry]

I go with airbuff, I have a couple of those boxes, while I needed them they worked great, certainly could put a full set needed for school in one.

 

[Theloniousmonk]

Techs and tools can quickly turn into a ******* contest pretty fast.

YUP. OP - DO NOT get into a box/tool "Arms Race" w/ the other techs... It's pointless and rather inmature, alot like highschool. I've seen the fallout of a heated box battle before, and it's not pretty in the end... ultimately three techs ended up with unusable boxes and the matching debt, due to the dealership putting a kahbosh on aircraft carrier size stacks (took up too much room).

Good luck!

 

[Anyas47]

I've been reading all your posts and i really liked air buffs. I'm not the type that buys things unless i need them. I love tools and gadgets, but i wouldn't spend too much money on them. I'm asking you guys so i don't make the common stupid mistakes people make when they first start something, and you've helped me a lot! As for school tools i don't really need them the school provides me with all i need. (which is awesome because they have all snap on) Thanks for all the advice guys!

 

[Lump]

That's great for you, Anyas. Use their tools, and find out how well you REALLY like the career choice for a good period of time, before buying too much.

Best of luck to you in your future.

 

[Anyas47]

That's great for you, Anyas. Use their tools, and find out how well you REALLY like the career choice for a good period of time, before buying too much.

Best of luck to you in your future.

Thanks I'm sure i'll do fine i love fixing cars.

 

[IndyGarage]

It's like anything else; It's the earliest decisions that are the most crucial toward your long-term success, and that you are often least prepared to make correctly. I applaud you for thinking enough to ask the question.

Those who scrimp and save and economize up front, spend their money on education and work hard will, over time, more likely have money to buy whatever they want later on.

Those who splurge up front on things - tools, cars, toys, whatever, instead of education, no matter how hard they work, will always be making payments.


Early on in your career, you have more time to spend watching what the guy next to you has, and you'll really want people to have the impression that you have more experience than you really do.

Later, you won't have time to worry about it.

The folks who make profits selling tools know this, and their business model is set up to take advantage of it. Don't let them.

As a mechanic, your customers will never know what kind of tools you used to do the job. Some tools really will make you faster and are easier to use, but many will not, no matter what the cost or quality.

I have always had a two step model for tools: If I had a need for a tool, I will always first get into it at a moderate to good price, so I could get into it, understand the value of it, understand how often I will actually use it, and understand what features of it I like. That usually meant buying used or buying even Craftsman on sale. I never go high end from the start.

Then, over time, and as my budget allows, if it's a tool that is indispensable, or there is something very unique on the market, I would then go for the absolute highest performance for the lowest price - on that tool only. That still means I often buy used, but I will buy new if the value is there, and I will pay a premium price for something that really works well. When I get them, I use the heck out of them, and maintain them religiously - and replace or repair them immediately if they get lost or broken.

 

[Anyas47]

Indy that was a great post i really like the advice you gave. A lot of businesses make a killing of exploiting the younger more naive people. (which I'm a proud member of) I see all of these nice tools and i think about how great it would to own them. But i wont let them get to me

I like your idea of getting great tools that you use all the time. thank! At this point i'm guessing that it's best to get a cheap bare necessities and wait till i actually start working to find out which tools i use all the time.

 

[wornoutoldman]

A word of caution concerning a Craftsman "set" or any other brand for that matter you'll be money ahead in the long run if you pick and choose the tools that go into a set rather that purchase one that has 682 pieces (or whatever number) once you get that set home you'll find that half of it is junk you will never find a use for. Careful choosing will result in a much more complete and useful kit. There are many posts here that talk about this. Good luck on your new career!

 

[Big Vic]

YUP. OP - DO NOT get into a box/tool "Arms Race" w/ the other techs... It's pointless and rather inmature, alot like highschool. I've seen the fallout of a heated box battle before, and it's not pretty in the end... ultimately three techs ended up with unusable boxes and the matching debt, due to the dealership putting a kahbosh on aircraft carrier size stacks (took up too much room).

Good luck!

ARE YOU SERIOUS!!! Im sorry but thats just dumb why would someone put there self in debt just to say "My box and tools are better then yours"

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

You learn pretty quick what you NEED, versus what you are stockpiling. I haven't been in the big box in weeks, it's all been the cart stuff that gets used.

A good roller cart, one of the big Craftsman socket sets, wrenches, screwdrivers, 1/2" impact and a 3/8" air ratchet and you are pretty much set to start out. Also BUY A SET OF PRYBARS. I don't know why, but nobody buys their own anymore.