Steve Bryant's Blackhawk Jack Thread

[Steve Bryant]

I have owned one of these Blackhawk S-4 Jacks for about 25 years (although it has not worked properly for about 10 . . . leaks hydraulic fluid & needs rebuilding and repainting). This thread is a goldmine of information for me as I now know the proper color scheme and the vintage magazine ad is great for documentation. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78014&highlight=blackhawk+jack I bought the S-4 Jack Rebuild Kit from the Blackhawk parts folks in Chattanooga, TN in about 2004. I live in Wichita, KS, but I am originally from Cleveland, TN (just 30 miles NE of Chattanooga) and I bought the parts plus, they made me a photocopy of the Illustrated Parts Catalog and part numbers, etc. from a very old parts book. I will scan and clean up the images and post them as an Adobe Acrobat Document and I'll take some current pictures of my jack too. The handle on my jack has been replaced with another handle that lacks a place for the batteries and switch. This is OK with me as I don't think that I will re-enable the light functionality (maybe yes, maybe no).

Steve

 

[CRTDI]

Re: Late 40s early 50's Blackhawk floor jack 200.00

I have owned one of these Blackhawk S-4 Jacks for about 25 years (although it has not worked properly for about 10 . . . leaks hydraulic fluid & needs rebuilding and repainting). This thread is a goldmine of information for me as I now know the proper color scheme and the vintage magazine ad is great for documentation. I bought the S-4 Jack Rebuild Kit from the Blackhawk parts folks in Chattanooga, TN in about 2004. I live in Wichita, KS, but I am originally from Cleveland, TN (just 30 miles NE of Chattanooga) and I bought the parts plus, they made me a photocopy of the Illustrated Parts Catalog and part numbers, etc. from a very old parts book. I will scan and clean up the images and post them as an Adobe Acrobat Document and I'll take some current pictures of my jack too. The handle on my jack has been replaced with another handle that lacks a place for the batteries and switch. This is OK with me as I don't think that I will re-enable the light functionality (maybe yes, maybe no).

Steve

Firstly, Welcome to the GJ ! It's always nice to see another vintage Blackhawk jack owner.

If you bought your rebuild kit back in 2004, I would be a bit concerned about the packings being dried out. These kits are not something that you want sitting on a shelf for a long period of time, they will deteriorate. Look up GJ member Hiball, he will be able to source a fresh rebuild kit at a very competitive price for you.


I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of your jack, especially the handle assy. I have one of these as well that doesn't have any accommodation for the switch and batteries. When I first saw it, I thought it was a handle for an S-15 7.5 Ton jack, but it does have an S-4 part number. The jack itself appears to be a very early model with no light feature. I'm probably wrong, but my thinking is that the light feature might have been originally offered as an option on earlier models and then became standard on later ones.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Re: Late 40s early 50's Blackhawk floor jack 200.00

I live in Wichita, KS, but I am originally from Cleveland, TN (just 30 miles NE of Chattanooga)

Steve

Welcome from back home. I grew up on Hwy 58 and still work in Rossville, GA. No offense but how did a good ol Southern boy wind up in Kansas? Did you car breakdown out there?

 

[Steve Bryant]

Re: Late 40s early 50's Blackhawk floor jack 200.00

Welcome from back home. I grew up on Hwy 58 and still work in Rossville, GA. No offense but how did a good ol Southern boy wind up in Kansas? Did you car breakdown out there?

Well, in my younger days, my head was in the clouds because I was facinated by airplanes! After graduating from the University of Tennessee in 1971 and working for my dad's trucking business for a few extra years I went back to school at Spartain School of Aeronautics in Tulsa, OK for two years in aircaft electronics and instrumentation systems. Then I went to work for Beech Aircraft in 1976 where I've worked in a variety of capacities since. Beech (now Hawker Beechcraft) is headquartered in Wichita, KS.

My son David, who is 31 and was born here, moved back to Tennessee about seven years ago. He lives on my wife's folks family farm in Cleveland and married a young lady from Tennessee. So . . . in two generations, we've gone full circle.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Re: Late 40s early 50's Blackhawk floor jack 200.00

Steve,

Glad to hear the boy made it back to his roots. I think I understand now, after going to UTK myself, you probably needed to go to Spartain to learn how to read..... UTK just teaches classes on reading football playbooks.

 

[Steve Bryant]

Re: Late 40s early 50's Blackhawk floor jack 200.00

I'm starting to rebuild my S-4 Blackhawk Jack. It probably has not been overhauled for fifty years. I'm currently having a heck of a time removing the main (slave) piston packing nut. I'm calling Blackhawkparts.com tomorrow to see if they still have one of these nuts. I made a special spanner wrench for the nut and I've been soaking it in WD40 for three or four days and I just broke one of the lugs off the nut.

 

[CRTDI]

Re: Late 40s early 50's Blackhawk floor jack 200.00

I'm starting to rebuild my S-4 Blackhawk Jack. It probably has not been overhauled for fifty years. I'm currently having a heck of a time removing the main (slave) piston packing nut. I'm calling Blackhawkparts.com tomorrow to see if they still have one of these nuts. I made a special spanner wrench for the nut and I've been soaking it in WD40 for three or four days and I just broke one of the lugs off the nut.

There is another older S-4 with your same handle configuration posted here:

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45278&page=13&highlight=show+jacks

I thought the control knob was cut down, but maybe not, it seems to look like yours.

If you are interested in fabricating a different tool for the nut removal, you might find some drawings here to be helpful:

http://pdfcast.org/pdf/hydraulic-jack-repair-manual/

Good luck with your rebuild!!

 

[Steve Bryant]

Re: Late 40s early 50's Blackhawk floor jack 200.00

The packing nut is no longer available.

However, it was my good fortune to have the assistance of the good folks at Repairman Jacks (local shop here in Wichita, KS) help me disassemble the head unit (both the two stage master and the slave pistons/cylinders). These wonderful folks (Stan, Bob and Andy) not only helped me, but they were enthuistaciastic about my project. They recommended that I come back when completed and have them test it in their load cell and adjust the pressure relief valve if required. They had a custom made socket that was able to remove the big packing nut even in a damaged conditdion. I wish that I'd have gone there first. They also put me on to a retired machinist who could make me a new packing nut if I wanted.

 

[Willy-C]

Steve,

This thread brings back memories of days past......I started working on these beasts back in 1976 working as a mechanic at a local hyd shop.....

I have two units in my collection of old hyd stuff and these were tanks....

If you have any peticular problems I'd be glad to help.....one thing to watch out for is the small chevron packings inside the pump piston (used in the power stroke)....they are sensitive to over/under torquing.....

Willy-C

 

[Bull]

Hey, welcome aboard!

You don't have any spare parts for these old Blackhawks, do you?

Steve,

This thread brings back memories of days past......I started working on these beasts back in 1976 working as a mechanic at a local hyd shop.....

I have two units in my collection of old hyd stuff and these were tanks....

If you have any peticular problems I'd be glad to help.....one thing to watch out for is the small chevron packings inside the pump piston (used in the power stroke)....they are sensitive to over/under torquing.....

Willy-C

 

[Willy-C]

I've thrown out a lot of stuff over the years......being in the hyd repair business has seen a transformation to different stuff but the knowledge and old parts still follow me around like a bad penny.....

Anything you're looking for..??

 

[Bull]

I've thrown out a lot of stuff over the years......being in the hyd repair business has seen a transformation to different stuff but the knowledge and old parts still follow me around like a bad penny.....

Anything you're looking for..??

Yessir! Please check out my pics in this thread:

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84859&highlight=bull's+blackhawk+jack

Important hard parts are missing! I want to secure them and get that thing into fighting trim to replace that embarrassing Chiwan junk that I've been using for years.

 

[Hiball]

I've thrown out a lot of stuff over the years......being in the hyd repair business has seen a transformation to different stuff but the knowledge and old parts still follow me around like a bad penny.....

Anything you're looking for..??

Welcome to GJ, I also have alot of knowledge in the Hydraulic Jack Area. My grandfather worked on Jacks for over 60 years and made lots of friendships all across the US. Im also blessed with numerous out buildings of parts, If you ever need something feel free to give me a shout.

 

[Willy-C]

What's really funny is I've bought old jacks from people that would bring them in my shop to get fixed, they were always figuring that the rebuild would be cheap cuz of the prices of import junk....I don't do them as a career anymore....no money in it.....

I've added some nice units to my collection over the years.....

My newest is a Walker model 780 10 ton.....(it's maybe 40 yrs old)

It looks like you need release parts for your S-4..??

 

[Willy-C]

Welcome to GJ, I also have alot of knowledge in the Hydraulic Jack Area. My grandfather worked on Jacks for over 60 years and made lots of friendships all across the US. Im also blessed with numerous out buildings of parts, If you ever need something feel free to give me a shout.

Thanx for the welcome......I thought everybody in the world out there either forgot about decent jacks or just died off.....

 

[CRTDI]

Please....show us your collection.

 

[Hiball]

Thanx for the welcome......I thought everybody in the world out there either forgot about decent jacks or just died off.....

Well as you said... There's No Money it it. I keep busier than i really want to be but i enjoy bringing Jacks back to Life when im not Railroading. Im a big Weaver Fan myself, No Bells and Whistles but ive seen jacks with 40+ years worth of service come into the shop. I fields questions/Pms daily with people pricing Rebuild kits and i can feel the shock over the Phone/computer when i price the parts. Its hard to get someone to invest more into a older jack than what they can buy a New Import for.

 

[Bull]

It looks like you need release parts for your S-4..??

Yep!

We have one of the last remaining enclaves of real jack enthusiasts here. It's a popular topic.

 

[Willy-C]

Yep!

We have one of the last remaining enclaves of real jack enthusiasts here. It's a popular topic.

Well, I should fit in then...........

I'll have to get some pics together....

 

[Willy-C]

Well as you said... There's No Money it it. I keep busier than i really want to be but i enjoy bringing Jacks back to Life when im not Railroading. Im a big Weaver Fan myself, No Bells and Whistles but ive seen jacks with 40+ years worth of service come into the shop. I fields questions/Pms daily with people pricing Rebuild kits and i can feel the shock over the Phone/computer when i price the parts. Its hard to get someone to invest more into a older jack than what they can buy a New Import for.

I loved the Weavers........WA-72, WA-73, WA-75, WA-85.....even the trans jacks......

Very simple and rugged.....

 

[Bull]

Well, I should fit in then...........

I'll have to get some pics together....

Hey, check out this thread:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93555

You probably already have a similar manual, but I'd be curious to know if you have any info on that B.G. Manufacturing jack that I have a page or two about, that had been stuffed inside my Blackhawk repair manual.

 

[Hiball]

I loved the Weavers........WA-72, WA-73, WA-75, WA-85.....even the trans jacks......

Very simple and rugged.....

When you've spent the last 20+ years tearing down Walker/Lincoln jacks (Very popular here in the Midwest)where the frame had to be split for maintenance the idea of just pulling a couple Cotter keys and sliding the unit forward or removing the Center shaft on the bigger models its a Welcomed sight.

 

[Willy-C]

Hey, check out this thread:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93555

You probably already have a similar manual, but I'd be curious to know if you have any info on that B.G. Manufacturing jack that I have a page or two about, that had been stuffed inside my Blackhawk repair manual.

The BH manual I have is newer vintage.....late 70's IIRC....

I'll look tomorrow at work for the BG.....

 

[Bull]

The BH manual I have is newer vintage.....late 70's IIRC....

I'll look tomorrow at work for the BG.....

Cool!

And, if you need any info from my manual in the future, just holler.

 

[Steve Bryant]

Bull,
I've just been reviewing your thread on finding the manual. Does it have any information on rebuilding techniques, precautions, recommendations for rebuilding the S-4?

Thanks,

Steve

 

[Willy-C]

Steve,

I think I have a ram plunger packing nut for you, haven't seen it yet but should have my mitts on it next week.....I'll let you know

I looked over my two S-4's and I'm missing one power unit and one handle assy.............I do have one complete S-4 rebuilt that has one side of the handle busted off and missing, so that's something I'll have to scrouge up....

The remaining S-4 power unit is ???????? and the handle assy ???????.............hopefully it's just tucked in some corner and not chucked out with the scrap metal........

Willy-C

 

[Bull]

I looked over my two S-4's and I'm missing one power unit and one handle assy.............I do have one complete S-4 rebuilt that has one side of the handle busted off and missing, so that's something I'll have to scrouge up....

The remaining S-4 power unit is ???????? and the handle assy ???????.............hopefully it's just tucked in some corner and not chucked out with the scrap metal........

Willy-C

No spare parts for ol' Bully-boy, then?

 

[Willy-C]

Steve,

Tips....Hmmmmm.....

strip all pistons, packing nuts, retainers, valve plugs.....leave the adjustable overload cartridge together but remove it to expose the valves....

Scrub, flush base with solvent cleaner or carb spray....use carb spray with nozzle to reach inside the ports where valve ball reside.....one thing that I remember about the valve seats is the 7/32 suction valve ball seat can be worn too deep......hopefully you won't run into that......

Do not mix up valve balls and 2 stage trip spring/poppet

Polish everything that moves or drags on moving parts (glands, sleeves ect)....

Inside the pump chamber in the back there is a stud that can be removed with an allen wrench......I used to remove it for polishing (bore too) and use the same part to adjust the tension on the small v packings inside the pump piston when you start putting it back together.....

When you start to put everything back together you should be on clean table/rags.....clean tools, clean grease AND CLEAN HANDS..!!....then blow out completely with compressed air

Soak the packings in oil (some folks do it overnight)....use clean grease sparingly on the v packings......

Best to install valves, 2 speed poppet, overload valve (DON'T OVERTORQUE IT) first (in case you have to blow it out with air)

preload the v packing set inside the pump piston using the stud that was removed inside the pump chamber.....the stack height of all these v packing sets are very sensitive so be careful to put back the same amount of v packings......there should be a healthy drag on the v packing set but not too tight......

when installing the v packings in the pump chamber and ram chamber put them in loose and tighten them up with the plungers installed (not too tight) with a healthy drag using a small punch (don't marr the piston surfaces), then the pump and ram packings can be installed afterwards (one at a time), then the packing nuts......

The overload may not need to come apart cuz you can visually see if it's not holding a load when testing.....If needed then you can pull it after the whole jack is together if it leaks by......

I'm sure I missed something, the others can chime in if so.....

It has been a while since I've done one but the principle is the same as any jack, they all have there strange tricks.....

Most of the blunders I've seen was the V packings not in right, too loose, too tight, not the right height, twisted in place......well you get the picture

Hope this helps....

Willy-C......

 

[Willy-C]

No spare parts for ol' Bully-boy, then?

I'm still looking for you....I have another lead on a complete unit I'm working on and I still think I may have that handle somewhere......

It's a problem when the shop is too big and ICRS.......

 

[Hiball]

when installing the v packings in the pump chamber and ram chamber put them in loose and tighten them up with the plungers installed (not too tight) with a healthy drag using a small punch (don't marr the piston surfaces), then the pump and ram packings can be installed afterwards (one at a time), then the packing nuts......

Ahh..... This is a very dangerous Practice. I hate seeing parts get damaged account not having the proper tool. Unfortunately the OEM tool was only issued to "Authorized Service Centers" (Yeah.. I got one..Ugh... Actually 2 Now. LOL) With a little Fabwork one can make a tool. Also on the Pump pistons, They are 2 stage and the Vee's are inverted in spots because not only does the piston Push oil, it also Pulls oil into the Pump Cavity. If you look at the Breakdown it will show the correct number of Vee's and there direction.

Willy-C What is your procedure for the Inner Compression nut on the Main Ram? Do you use Thread locker prior to installation? I recently had a jack that was completely rebuilt and it backed off enough to misline the OverExtend Hole back into the resevoir (SJ-18) Im guessing there was enough friction from the extension of the Ram that it was unscrewing ever so slightly. Just Curious?

 

[Willy-C]

Yea, I guess the punch is dangerous but I never had the right one....the one I use is a thin Starrett pin punch using old wear bands for protection on the ram....

Never had a problem with the inner ring loosening up, threadlocker would be a good idea....

This website brings back alot of memories cuz the only jack work I do now is for myself, our business has grown into bigger jacks, they include CAT, John Deere, Komatsu, Grove, Linkbelt.........

It's fun to talk about it.....

 

[Hiball]

Yea, I guess the punch is dangerous but I never had the right one....the one I use is a thin Starrett pin punch using old wear bands for protection on the ram....

Never had a problem with the inner ring loosening up, threadlocker would be a good idea....

This website brings back alot of memories cuz the only jack work I do now is for myself, our business has grown into bigger jacks, they include CAT, John Deere, Komatsu, Grove, Linkbelt.........

It's fun to talk about it.....

I think it must of been a fluke... If there is one thing ive learned over the years is that once you think you have it figured out, something throws you for a loop.

 

[Willy-C]

Hiball,

Do you do other hyd work or just concentrating on jacks

 

[Hiball]

Hiball,

Do you do other hyd work or just concentrating on jacks

Well.. Im a Full time Railroader and in my spare time i spend time in the Shop working on Jacks, Cylinders (Rural community and lots of farmers) and have dabbled in Hydraulic Pumps. I also put Kits together for some of your more popular Jacks. We have a big Shop here locally that deals with the bigger stuff similar to you, (Azdell Hydraulics) but they gave up Hydraulic jacks along time ago. It was just too much of a hassle and didnt pay off for them, So they send all there customers to me.

 

[Willy-C]

Sounds like a good deal for both of you...

I have another hyd shop that still fixes jacks in this area but is struggling.....We refer jack work to them also....

 

[Willy-C]

Your not far from St Louis..

1 1/2 years ago I was in St Louis at Valtech Hydraulics.......I am a member of ESA ( http://www.2esa.org/ )......

ESA had a tech meeting there for members, me and the SWMBO stayed for 3 days......

The group was started years ago by jack people, it has transformed into all types of hyd shops

 

[Hiball]

Sounds like a good deal for both of you...

I have another hyd shop that still fixes jacks in this area but is struggling.....We refer jack work to them also....

Yep.. Its definitely a Dieing Breed. Ive enjoyed the time ive spent with my Grandfather over the years in the Shop. I think in todays world you would be hard pressed on making a living strictly off Hydraulic Jacks. Anyways Nice to meet your online aquaintance and if there's anything you ever need in regards to Hard parts dont hesitate to ask, I have tons of NOS parts along with a large supply of Good Used stuff.

 

[CRTDI]

Ahh..... This is a very dangerous Practice. I hate seeing parts get damaged account not having the proper tool. Unfortunately the OEM tool was only issued to "Authorized Service Centers" (Yeah.. I got one..Ugh... Actually 2 Now. LOL) With a little Fabwork one can make a tool. Also on the Pump pistons, They are 2 stage and the Vee's are inverted in spots because not only does the piston Push oil, it also Pulls oil into the Pump Cavity. If you look at the Breakdown it will show the correct number of Vee's and there direction.

Willy-C What is your procedure for the Inner Compression nut on the Main Ram? Do you use Thread locker prior to installation? I recently had a jack that was completely rebuilt and it backed off enough to misline the OverExtend Hole back into the resevoir (SJ-18) Im guessing there was enough friction from the extension of the Ram that it was unscrewing ever so slightly. Just Curious?

This subject matter seems vaguely familiar to me somehow.....Hiball.....You Da Man!!

 

[Bull]

I have tons of NOS parts along with a large supply of Good Used stuff.

Steve, do you have the parts for my wounded little Indian S-4?

 

[Joseph36]

Hello , good to see there is a place where old blackhawk floor jacks are rebuilt. I have a sears ( i think sj2 ) that needs to rebuilt . I need the piece that screws into the end of the resivor . Nice to meet you all .